AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

So it has been a little while since any new Taylor news has come out except that the perps threw the gun into the everglades and one is helping the police find it and then this:

[B]After Sean Taylor Death, Pat Williams Carries a Gun When He Answers the Door[/B]

[url=http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/12/24/after-sean-taylor-death-pat-williams-carries-a-gun-when-he-answ/]After Sean Taylor Death, Pat Williams Carries a Gun When He Answers the Door - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog[/url]

I have seriously considered buying a gun but wonder if this would have helped. We recently had an intruder break in to a neighbor's house, wake the single solo female with a tazer shock and assault her. We live in a really nice area where this never happens (or at least never had) but I have since added bolt locks, motion sensors, increased alarm system, etc.

Anyway, wasn't sure how to add this as a poll, but anyone else considering owning a gun AST?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

I have a gun, carry, and work with them. I think to get a gun out of fear just to have is stupid, however if you take the time to use it and educate yourself it can be a very useful tool in a terrible situation. You would be suprised to see how many people have thier own weapons turned on them, know what you are doing....

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

There's hardly any crime in my hometown, I can't even think of one incident in our township since I've been a working adult (6 years) involving a gun. So for me, there's pretty much no reason to own one. And given the risk that my daughter could somehow get a hold of it or something, no way no how. Not for me. I'm not a fan of guns at all.

I'd love to ban them altogether, but certainly the ST thing, or if you live in an area where crime is more prevalent, you can see why people would think about getting one.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

not really. sean taylor would have had one if not for his felony case (part of the probation was no gun ownership).

the problem with guns is kids finding them and blowing their own heads off with them. i think one of our DEs had friends do that when he was nine, and i know a guy that shotgunned his big toe off messing around in his room.

I won't own one. Our cops here carry M-16s though and theft/assualt/etc here is a great way to get fired and end up in jail very quickly.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

The Andy Griffith days are over. You can't leave home with your doors unlocked. You damn sure can't let your children get out of your sight. I'm not a hunter or a gun fanatic but I do own one just in case.

I have two kids and neither one of them know I have it. I don't keep it loaded because of my kids. Hell the bullets and the gun are in two different parts of the house well hidden. I guess if a burglar showed up I'd have to ask him if he minded waiting a sec so I could load up.

We have all heard noises outside and went to take a look. I feel a little better going out with something other than a flashlight and a stick.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

Kind of off the subject, but I once heard that one of the reasons the Japanese just attacked Pearl Harbor and did not invade the USA in 1941 was because citizens owned guns in California. They were scared. The simple fact that you don't know who is "packing heat" prevents a lot of crimes.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

Gun Control, not elimination. You should have the right to defend yourself. You hear a loud noise, you open the bedroom door and see a man with a gun entering your home. In between him and you is the door to your 4 year old's bedroom. You will never find me bringing a knife to a gun fight. Ever. That being said, my peice is locked up with a finger combo safe that form fits my hand and releases to a code i can enter in about 3 seconds. i keep the clip next to it.

As a society, guns have been a technological evolution that has become a big part of our culture. I think most people would agree that a world without guns would be more ideal. But unfortunately, that's not realistic. We can't put the cat back in the bag. And guns are fairly simple to manufacture.

I don't know that disarming a nation with 90% of it's military deployed outside of it's own borders is in the long term strategically sane.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[I]That being said, my peice is locked up with a finger combo safe that form fits my hand and releases to a code i can enter in about 3 seconds. i keep the clip next to it.[/I]


Thats great. I have a couple of friends that had rather deer hunt than eat. Guns all over the house in unlocked cabinets and kids running wild. When I've mentioned locking them up because of their kids the response is always the same. Awwww they know not to touch them. Makes me sick!

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

Quoting:

[B][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B]
[B][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Butte[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial], Montana[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]November 5, 200[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]7[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][B][/B]
[B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in [/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Montana[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]before medical help could arrive.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim,[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]chest.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Ever wonder why good stuff never makes[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]NBC[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black], CBS,[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]PBS[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black],[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]MSNBC[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black], CNN, or[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]ABC news....[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Now that is Gun Control![/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B]

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown;398308]Quoting:

[B][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B]
[B][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Butte[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial], Montana[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/B][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]November 5, 200[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]7[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B]
[B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in [/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Montana[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]before medical help could arrive.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim,[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]chest.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Ever wonder why good stuff never makes[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]NBC[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black], CBS,[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]PBS[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black],[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][B]MSNBC[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black], CNN, or[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black]ABC news....[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][B][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/B][B][B][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black][COLOR=black] Now that is Gun Control![/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/B][/QUOTE]

Now that is awesome.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

"I fear no man and I'm unarmed"

Without cheating name the song and band.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

well it's not tupac

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

or ted nugent.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398318]"I fear no man and I'm unarmed"

Without cheating name the song and band.[/quote]

Hint: It's not a Ted Nugent song.



My guess: Willie Nelson?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;398333]or ted nugent.[/quote]

you beat me to it!

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

getting slow in your old age...

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=scowan;398294]Kind of off the subject, but I once heard that one of the reasons the Japanese just attacked Pearl Harbor and did not invade the USA in 1941 was because citizens owned guns in California. They were scared. The simple fact that you don't know who is "packing heat" prevents a lot of crimes.[/quote]


For the record Pearl Harbor was an air strike. I hardly think they were afraid of the average US joe with a hand gun in their night stand.

I am just guessing here.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

more guns = more killings. just say no to guns

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;398342]more guns = more killings. just say no to guns[/QUOTE]

Boy Dmek, do you ever live in the wrong neck of the woods. How's it feel being the only democrat in Lancaster?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

I base my entire gun control policy on the movie RED DAWN. :)

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

What a can of worms we've opened here.

Purchasing and using a firearm is a very personal decision and should not be taken lightly.

I grew up with guns, own a number of different firearms, and have received military and law enforcement training with respect to pistols and carbines. I, for one, am very confident in my ability to defend myself with a firearm. Not everyone is properly trained, however.

Too many people go out, buy a "nine" stick it in their dresser drawer and forget about it. That's about as smart as handing a 12 year old the keys to the car and hoping they teach themselves how to drive. Or about as smart as skydiving without proper instruction on how all your gear works, or flying a plan solo without ever cracking a book or taking a lesson.

What you have in your hand is a piece of highly engineered machinery which has the ability to take a life in an instant. Not to quote Spiderman too much, but that power must be in responsible, trained hands.

If you are going to get one, don't get it out of fear - that's a poor reason. Come to a rational conclusion about your needs, protection and environment and make an appropriate decision.

If that decision is to purchase a firearm, seek out as much knowledge, training and experience as you can possibly get. Typically the people who either wind up hurting themselves or others accidentally are idiots who never got the proper training and experience.

Furthermore, experience and training breeds knowledge and understanding. Everyone I've ever met who hated guns, wanted them banned altogether and wouldn't touch them, also had absolutely zero understanding of how they work and were completely ignorant as to proper operation and use.

I'll throw this last bit in to spark some debate (Woohoo!): as a former cop, having dealt with firearms from both ends, I fully support every U.S. citizen's (who's not a felon) right to legally own a firearm, provided they are properly trained. Having obviously spent plenty of time around hundreds of other cops enforcing the law on a daily basis, I can attest to having never met a cop who felt any differently than I did. In other words, the guys chasing down the criminals on a day to day basis WANT the general public to be armed.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=dmek25;398342]more guns = more killings. just say no to guns[/quote]

Yeah. I'd love to see a report showing gun deaths in the country by year, and gun sales in the country by year. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that gun deaths go up as gun sales go up, and gun deaths go down as gun sales go down.

I do agree that they can be used responsibly, and in the right situations they save lives, and that if you ban them they'll still fall into the wrong hands via the black market. So a blanket ban for the entire country probably wouldn't be effective.

But you have to admit, having a gun in the house, even if it's locked up and all that stuff, increases the chances of having an accident compared to a house without a gun. If you want to reduce your chances of being the victim of a violent crime, a gun could help you, but the best thing you can do would be move to a safer area. Of course you've got to be able to afford the safer area, so there's a catch 22 as well.

All the more reason to get a haircut and get a real job!

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

I love shooting them in video games but in real life guns scare the shit outta me.

When my brother and I were kids we found a suitcase in my Dad's closet that had a couple of pistols in it that used to belong to my Grandfather. Luckily, they were not loaded.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398356]I love shooting them in video games but in real life guns scare the shit outta me.

When my brother and I were kids we found a suitcase in my Dad's closet that had a couple of pistols in it that used to belong to my Grandfather. Luckily, they were not loaded.[/quote]

LOL same here. Halo baby.

I have a buddy who owns a big ass shotgun. He likes to hunt. He doesn't keep it loaded in the house, ever. But sometimes we'd just be sitting around playing poker, and he'd bring it out for show and tell, and just the sight of the thing unnerves me, even when not loaded. If it were ever loaded, I think I'd be out of the house faster than Santana Moss streaking past Roy Williams.

My feelings on that are certainly no argument for a gun ban, just saying they make me uncomfortable as all get out. That's a part of the world I'd just assume not be exposed to.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398350][B]Yeah. I'd love to see a report showing gun deaths in the country by year, and gun sales in the country by year. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that gun deaths go up as gun sales go up, and gun deaths go down as gun sales go down.[/B]

I do agree that they can be used responsibly, and in the right situations they save lives, and that if you ban them they'll still fall into the wrong hands via the black market. So a blanket ban for the entire country probably wouldn't be effective.

But you have to admit, having a gun in the house, even if it's locked up and all that stuff, increases the chances of having an accident compared to a house without a gun. If you want to reduce your chances of being the victim of a violent crime, a gun could help you, but the best thing you can do would be move to a safer area. Of course you've got to be able to afford the safer area, so there's a catch 22 as well.

All the more reason to get a haircut and get a real job![/QUOTE]

It would appear quite the opposite, actually:

[URL="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm"]Bureau of Justice Firearms and Crime Statistics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=060506.cfm"]Gun Sales Rise as Crime and Accident Rates Fall[/URL]

Of course give it about 5 minutes before someone argues that statistics don't mean anything. Oddly enough, statistics relating to firearms and the research methodologies have got to be the most hotly debated thing I've ever seen. Each side claims to have the stats to back it up.

Just stumbled across this too - a diving website, of all things:

[URL="http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050417.html"]Australia's high crime rates prompt travel warning[/URL]

Just FYI, Australia banned firearms in the mid-90s.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

That's how it always is with stats. You can bend numbers to mean just about whatever you want, especially you view them as narrowly as possible. Personally I believe that if criminal A thinks he there is a good chance that he will be shot and killed if he tries to rob a hom, that he will not try to rob said home. Conversely, if a criminal thinks there are little to no serious repercussions then they are much more likely to commit the crime...

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398356]I love shooting them in video games but in real life guns scare the shit outta me.

When my brother and I were kids we found a suitcase in my Dad's closet that had a couple of pistols in it that used to belong to my Grandfather. Luckily, they were not loaded.[/quote]

You sure your dad isn't a made guy?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398360]LOL same here. Halo baby.

I have a buddy who owns a big ass shotgun. He likes to hunt. He doesn't keep it loaded in the house, ever. But sometimes we'd just be sitting around playing poker, and he'd bring it out for show and tell, and just the sight of the thing unnerves me, even when not loaded. If it were ever loaded, I think I'd be out of the house faster than Santana Moss streaking past Roy Williams.

My feelings on that are certainly no argument for a gun ban, just saying they make me uncomfortable as all get out. That's a part of the world I'd just assume not be exposed to.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the answer to an irrational fear is education and knowledge instead of blind sprinting in the opposite direction. ;)

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;398365]That's how it always is with stats. You can bend numbers to mean just about whatever you want, especially you view them as narrowly as possible. Personally I believe that if criminal A thinks he there is a good chance that he will be shot and killed if he tries to rob a hom, that he will not try to rob said home. Conversely, if a criminal thinks there are little to no serious repercussions then they are much more likely to commit the crime...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, stats are nice and all, but some good old fashioned logic and rational thinking goes a long way. ;)

I'm a burglar. House A has a homeowner with no firearms of any sort. House B the homeowner is armed and trained. Which house should I rob?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=mheisig;398362]It would appear quite the opposite, actually:

[URL="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm"]Bureau of Justice Firearms and Crime Statistics[/URL]

[URL="http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=060506.cfm"]Gun Sales Rise as Crime and Accident Rates Fall[/URL]

Of course give it about 5 minutes before someone argues that statistics don't mean anything. Oddly enough, statistics relating to firearms and the research methodologies have got to be the most hotly debated thing I've ever seen. Each side claims to have the stats to back it up.

Just stumbled across this too - a diving website, of all things:

[URL="http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050417.html"]Australia's high crime rates prompt travel warning[/URL]

Just FYI, Australia banned firearms in the mid-90s.[/quote]

Yeah it depends how you count "firearm and ammunition sales". Are you going by dollars in sales, or are you going by firearm units? If somebody showed me that firearm unit sales are increasing while gun crimes are decreasing, I'd be sold.

The reason people argue the stats is because you can twist the data and hide your definitions for counting things, and present a graph, and slip it past most people. Political lobbyists are notorious for this, they're not objective in any way. They're just trying to find some way, any way, to support their argument and continue their cause - even if it's fallacy.

You have to be completely objective when reviewing data like that. And unfortunately, the people publishing it (on either side of the argument) are most often not objective.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=mheisig;398368]Yeah, stats are nice and all, but some good old fashioned logic and rational thinking goes a long way. ;)

I'm a burglar. House A has a homeowner with no firearms of any sort. House B the homeowner is armed and trained. Which house should I rob?[/quote]

And conversely, I'm a kid who lives in house A with no firearms of any sort. In house B, there's another kid who's father is armed and trained. Which kid has the greater risk of getting hurt?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=saden1;398366]You sure your dad isn't a made guy?[/quote]

LOL

Nah, he works for the government.

Maybe he's a spy though?

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=Ocliw;398289]The Andy Griffith days are over. You can't leave home with your doors unlocked. You damn sure can't let your children get out of your sight. I'm not a hunter or a gun fanatic but I do own one just in case.

I have two kids and neither one of them know I have it. I don't keep it loaded because of my kids. Hell the bullets and the gun are in two different parts of the house well hidden. I guess if a burglar showed up I'd have to ask him if he minded waiting a sec so I could load up.

We have all heard noises outside and went to take a look. I feel a little better going out with something other than a flashlight and a stick.[/quote]'
If you have a dog, maybe the dog will hear the intruder first and give you time to go chasing around the house to find your piece and your loads. Educate your kids about guns and the safe handling of same. The NRA will help you, if you want. They have many programs for kids. They may not be at your house when they encounter a gun and the curiosity to play with it.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398372]And conversely, I'm a kid who lives in house A with no firearms of any sort. In house B, there's another kid who's father is armed and trained. Which kid has the greater risk of getting hurt?[/QUOTE]

If the kid is properly trained, neither.

The whole kids and firearms argument, to me, is about as weak as it gets. It sure hits the old heart strings when you bring up the kids, but it's not really grounded in much.

When I was about 5 years old, my father took me aside, pulled out his old .22 Colt Woodsman, unloaded it and let me hold it. He told me where he kept it, why he kept it and explained how it worked. He then told me that if I ever wanted to hold it or see it to just ask him, any time of the night or day, and he'd do it with me. At the age of about 8 he took me to the range and taught me to shoot, and also fire three rounds while neither of us had ear protection on, so that I would know what a live fired weapon sounds like. I never snuck into his room to handle a gun, because all I had to do was ask.

Basically the firearm wasn't shrouded in secrecy, locked up, put away and never talked about. That amount of shady secrecy is going to guarantee that a kid will go looking for it.

Yes, untrained, unparented kids find guns and do stupid stuff. They can also grab the car keys and go drive down the road, or drink a bottle of Draino, or stab themselves in the eye with a knife, but I don't hear anyone arguing that nobody should have cars, knives or Draino.

There are some decent arguments against everyone having guns, but "the children" is not one of them.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Ocliw;398289]The Andy Griffith days are over. You can't leave home with your doors unlocked. You damn sure can't let your children get out of your sight. I'm not a hunter or a gun fanatic but I do own one just in case.

I have two kids and neither one of them know I have it. I don't keep it loaded because of my kids. Hell the bullets and the gun are in two different parts of the house well hidden. I guess if a burglar showed up I'd have to ask him if he minded waiting a sec so I could load up.

We have all heard noises outside and went to take a look. I feel a little better going out with something other than a flashlight and a stick.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you at least have a gun, but an unloaded firearm with ammunition in the other room is about as useful as a 2 pound paperweight when it comes to home defense.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=mheisig;398381]If the kid is properly trained, neither.

The whole kids and firearms argument, to me, is about as weak as it gets. It sure hits the old heart strings when you bring up the kids, but it's not really grounded in much.

When I was about 5 years old, my father took me aside, pulled out his old .22 Colt Woodsman, unloaded it and let me hold it. He told me where he kept it, why he kept it and explained how it worked. He then told me that if I ever wanted to hold it or see it to just ask him, any time of the night or day, and he'd do it with me. At the age of about 8 he took me to the range and taught me to shoot, and also fire three rounds while neither of us had ear protection on, so that I would know what a live fired weapon sounds like. I never snuck into his room to handle a gun, because all I had to do was ask.

Basically the firearm wasn't shrouded in secrecy, locked up, put away and never talked about. That amount of shady secrecy is going to guarantee that a kid will go looking for it.

Yes, untrained, unparented kids find guns and do stupid stuff. They can also grab the car keys and go drive down the road, or drink a bottle of Draino, or stab themselves in the eye with a knife, but I don't hear anyone arguing that nobody should have cars, knives or Draino.

There are some decent arguments against everyone having guns, but "the children" is not one of them.[/quote]

But you're assuming the child is properly trained. You can't assume that all parents are going to be responsible about guns and train their kids like you were trained. It's up to the parents, and if the parents are irresponsible, like so many are, the poor kid is subjected to a situation over which he has no control.

It's not like a 7 year old is going to go out and seek training. If his dad isn't as good a parent as your father was to you, he's up a creek. When it comes to adults accidentally killing themselves because they have no training, I have little sympathy, because you reap what you sow. But a 7 year old? He's the victim of poor parenting, and you can't dismiss that with the old 'you reap what you sow' argument. The children need to be protected from their own parents at times.

I don't know how you do that effectively, mind you. But I definitely disagree that kids aren't a valid argument against owning a gun. In your situation, I'll agree. But not for most.

I still maintain that moving away from crime to safer neighborhoods is the most effective way to provide a safe life for you and your family.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398385]But you're assuming the child is properly trained. You can't assume that all parents are going to be responsible about guns and train their kids like you were trained. It's up to the parents, and if the parents are irresponsible, like so many are, the poor kid is subjected to a situation over which he has no control.

It's not like a 7 year old is going to go out and seek training. If his dad isn't as good a parent as your father was to you, he's up a creek. When it comes to adults accidentally killing themselves because they have no training, I have little sympathy, because you reap what you sow. But a 7 year old? He's the victim of poor parenting, and you can't dismiss that with the old 'you reap what you sow' argument. The children need to be protected from their own parents at times.

I don't know how you do that effectively, mind you. But I definitely disagree that kids aren't a valid argument against owning a gun. In your situation, I'll agree. But not for most.

I still maintain that moving away from crime to safer neighborhoods is the most effective way to provide a safe life for you and your family.[/QUOTE]

From that standpoint I would agree with you. Irresponsible adults should not own guns, and irresponsible adults with untrained children should not own guns.

They should also not own about a thousand other common household items.

You don't seem to be arguing for a total gun ban, so I'm not saying it from that standpoint. So many times, though, people argue that all guns should be banned "for the children," which is simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Working in the projects I saw young kids being the victims on a regular of poor nutrition, emotional, physical and sexual abuse far more often than. No, those aren't life ending the way a firearm can be, but when idiots have kids, bad stuff happens. You are absolutely right that stupid parents put their kids in situations where the kid is a victim. That's going to happen whether a gun is there or not. The kids life is a clusterfuck at that point and is probably exposed to any number of dangerous situations day in and day out.

When I speak of the "average citizen" having a gun for self defense, I'm really more referring to your lower-middle class and up folks. People with a decent job, provide for a family, kids go to school, parents work hard. What I would characterize as the bulk of America.

Yes, I agree that some idiot living in a hole who lets their kid do whatever they want all day and never parents them, absolutely should not have a gun. Or a car.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

[quote=mheisig;398383]I'm glad you at least have a gun, but an unloaded firearm with ammunition in the other room is about as useful as a 2 pound paperweight when it comes to home defense.[/quote]

Lol...true. I bought it years ago before I had kids. I'm just lulled into a false sense of security that I'll never need it. Nice neighborhood,low crime area, etc.. which I know doesn't mean crap these days.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

Never in my wildest dreams did I think there would be soooo many worms in this here can...gaaaaawwwwwlllleey gee whiz.

I think my best bet is to

-make my neighbor with kids buy a gun, ask him to rush right over if he ever hears anything strange, and make sure my kids never ever play over there

-always live in the poorest looking house on the whole block

-get a German Shepherd with the mange and a drooling problem.

Re: AST (After Sean Taylor)-To gun or not to gun?
 

Big dogs are actually an excellent source of home protection, actually. Dogs are a huge deterrent to burglars, whether you're home or not....

As far as handguns go, my sister was at VT, where they don't allow handguns. While she wasn't directly around the action, had a trained person been willing to carry the responsibility of protecting their peers been there that day, the death toll would certainly not have been as bad. Not only that, but if more of these Mass Murder/Suicide shooters were taken out quickly, I would speculate there would not be as many copy-cats.

When I read the story of the two girls shot at the mega-chuch, and the security lady popping him a few times before he offed himself, I realized that the cops can't be everywhere at once. I grew up around guns and even members of my family in the various military branches are in awe of my knowledge and shooting skills, being a civilian.

I decided to get my concealed carry permit 2 weeks ago. I now work nights and we just let go a guy who is very much a loner, pathological liar, listens to death metal, lives with mom, etc... and always talks about guns. I've been wearing my CZ-75B cocked and locked on my hip since we let him go.... I can't shake the feeling that he completely fits the bill of one of these guys.


I'm not saying everyone should have a gun, but I think if you're a responsible person and willing to accept that role, you should. The Good Samaritan Law is a great law, and I am greatly saddened by the state of this country, but I will not turn a blind eye to it and will do what I can to help the situation.

In my opinion banning guns to prevent gun crimes is as stupid as banning the internet to prevent cyber-sexual predators and identity theft.

Just my:twocents: