The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Last year I made a point of saying that Cerrato and his team of scouts needed to step up and unearth hidden gems. I think maybe it's time for me to retract that statement. We've rightfully praised Snyder for doing whatever the team has needed under duress this season (Sean Taylor's funeral, Todd Collins being there for the birth of his daughter, and Gibbs for holding the team together when all hope seemed lost (as he has done so many times in his career. But what about the third member of the triumvirate? Should we start giving some more credit to Cerrato?

Sure we've made mistakes, but look at the guys we've "unearthed" that have stepped up huge this year: Heyer has held down the RT spot not even a full year after being undrafted out of college; Lorenzo Alexander has done everything short of drive the team bus, Leigh Torrence has markedly improve the past two weeks to be a dependable nickel (still has a ways to go, but he's getting there); Reed Doughty has overcome the serious illness of his son along with the burden of replacing Sean Taylor and, with the help of Williams and Gray, has been able to maximize his strengths and be a solid starter on defense; late picks Golston and Montgomery have held down the interior allowing "no names" like Chris Wilson, Khary Campbell, and H.B. Blades to make plays...and so on.

Anyway what I'm getting at, and piggybacking off a post that skinsfan69 has, is let's not overlook the impact Cerrato and the scouting team has had on putting together the 53 man roster that we've had to dig deep into this season to make the playoffs

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

they're also part of the reason we have guys like brandon lloyd and rocky's bum knees :/

drafting has been better, and they're moving into the more good than harm area, but this isn't pioli territory here.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

This article points to our quality depth, gotta give it up for the front office:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/01/AR2008010102050.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Ah, come on, let's not bash Rocky for basically tearing every ligament in an injury that hits a lot of people. If he had healthy knees, it wasn't like he was going to be fine with the injury he got.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Leave it to That Guy to put a downer on things.

As I said, we've certainly made our mistakes but all so many of us do is constantly bash every single move the front office makes (and by front office I really mean Cerrato) and I was just trying to say there's more than just Lloyd and Duckett. They have done some good, and I thought it should be pointed out.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

With what this team has accomplished and how they have done it, I really don't see much room for bitching and complaining.

Let's give credit where it's due.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Our depth speaks for itself. We've gone on a four game winning streak while missing the following starters:

- Jon Jansen
- Randy Thomas
- Rocky McIntosh
- Carlos Rogers
- Sean Taylor
- Jason Campbell

Not to mention how banged up we've been at other spots. Not to mention that run defense was a major concern heading into this season, and now our defensive line is beast largely thanks to Anthony Montgomery.

My interpretation of the scouting department's job is to find the players that Gibbs and his coaches describe. I think credit for unearthing the gems, first and foremost, has to go to Gibbs and his staff. After all, they set the tone for the kinds of players they want, they tell Cerrato what kind of players they're looking for, and Gibbs himself ultimately makes the decision. But kudos definitely should go to Cerrato and company for doing the research, and being able to find the kinds of guys Gibbs has asked for.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;400336]...there's more than just Lloyd and Duckett. They have done some good, and I thought it should be pointed out.[/QUOTE]

I thought we only picked up duckett to keep him from going to philly? We've got some no-namers doing better than could ever be expected and someone deserves a little credit for that, why not Vinny?

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

As long as the team keeps moving away from trying to "win the offseason championship" they are going in the right direction. I am hoping that after years of trying to buy the "biggest" free agent players that eventually proved to be disappointing the team has finally learned that this formula cannot bread consistent winners.

As far as giving credit to Cerrato - I admit that I am not a Cerrato supporter - never have been. I read a lot of on the net and often I hear NFL insiders not give to much credit when Cerrato's name comes up. I think you have to look not only at Gibbs II but the entire time Cerrato has been here. Since 2000 we have qualified for the playoffs 2 times in 7 years - is that something to hang your hat on? And also the two times we did qualify for the were under Gibbs, the times we qualified without Gibbs and while Cerrato was here - zero.

So I ask this: if you were a NFL owner building your team from the ground up how many of you would actually sign Vinny to be the architect of your team - I know I wouldn't.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Whatever or whoever is repsonsible deserves some props, just as this thread states. It's been so long since we've had this many late round & undrafted guys making contributions & winning. Can anyone remember the last time? Probably in Gibbs I.

Of course I'm excited for the playoffs, but the draft & free agency will be interesting in 08. Will the Danny et al look to sign Briggs & make other big deals, or be willing to spend less in free agency & focus on the draft?

My guess is that there has probably been some serious tension w/in the front office including Gibbs about personel decisions. I think the college scouting staff has probably lobbied to Gibbs about the virtues of drafting & scouting undrafted free agents, and these recent successes may be all they need as evidence.

The Danny will never want to totally abandon his aggressive free agent moves, but seeing the success of the young unheralded guys may cause him to temper his moves a lot.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Bill B;400387]As long as the team keeps moving away from trying to "win the offseason championship" they are going in the right direction. I am hoping that after years of trying to buy the "biggest" free agent players that eventually proved to be disappointing the team has finally learned that this formula cannot bread consistent winners.

As far as giving credit to Cerrato - I admit that I am not a Cerrato supporter - never have been. I read a lot of on the net and often I hear NFL insiders not give to much credit when Cerrato's name comes up. I think you have to look not only at Gibbs II but the entire time Cerrato has been here. Since 2000 we have qualified for the playoffs 2 times in 7 years - is that something to hang your hat on? And also the two times we did qualify for the were under Gibbs, the times we qualified without Gibbs and while Cerrato was here - zero.

So I ask this: if you were a NFL owner building your team from the ground up how many of you would actually sign Vinny to be the architect of your team - I know I wouldn't.[/quote]

I agree w/your 1st paragraph, my previous post says about the same (which I was typing about the time you posted).

As for Vinny, do any of us really have any idea of what his influence is on personel & other matters? Is it true that he's Danny's mouthpiece & glorified gopher? With Snyder so involved in contracts & the organization so intent on being secretive it seems awfully hard to really assess Vinny.

On the other hand, it's not been hard at all to assess the overall organization under DS. It's been obvious to all of us that there's been a need for a change to their methods of acquiring players for years. Now it seems that the change is underway. We'll see for sure this offseason.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=freddyg12;400388]Whatever or whoever is repsonsible deserves some props, just as this thread states. It's been so long since we've had this many late round & undrafted guys making contributions & winning. Can anyone remember the last time? Probably in Gibbs I.

Of course I'm excited for the playoffs, but the draft & free agency will be interesting in 08. Will the Danny et al look to sign Briggs & make other big deals, or be willing to spend less in free agency & focus on the draft?

My guess is that there has probably been some serious tension w/in the front office including Gibbs about personel decisions. I think the college scouting staff has probably lobbied to Gibbs about the virtues of drafting & scouting undrafted free agents, and these recent successes may be all they need as evidence.

[B]The Danny will never want to totally abandon his aggressive free agent moves, but seeing the success of the young unheralded guys may cause him to temper his moves a lot[/B].[/quote]


I hope you are right about this. What I can't understand about this is from a financial standpoint I would think that not having to spend huge amounts on signing bonuses and getting better on field success from unheralded free agents and draft picks would actually be more enticing to most business owners - what is it about trying to go out and buy the biggest free agents? Yeah it may create a offseason excitement and help in the sales of jerseys/merchandise, but I would think most Redskin fans really care about the Lombardi Trophy and as this year is proving your chances of success improve when you take the less heralded approach. Look at this season's big spender if you need a stark reminder - the San Francisco 49ers - all the money spent and what was their great record - a pathetic 5-11 - records speak for themselves and buying a championship is an approach that keeps failing - when are teams going to finally realize this?

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

Also, let me go on record by saying Anthony Montgomery will probably make the Pro Bowl next year.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;400394]Also, let me go on record by saying Anthony Montgomery will probably make the Pro Bowl next year.[/quote]

Wow, that's pretty big. Def. could happen though.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

I especially want us to recognize the work of the scouts for going out there and finding these guys. Like Bo Schembechler's son finding Anthony Montgomery, or Terry Ray for Chris Wilson, etc. Scouting can be a thankless job but it's so key to a team's success.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Bill B;400393]I hope you are right about this. What I can't understand about this is from a financial standpoint I would think that not having to spend huge amounts on signing bonuses and getting better on field success from unheralded free agents and draft picks would actually be more enticing to most business owners - what is it about trying to go out and buy the biggest free agents? Yeah it may create a offseason excitement and help in the sales of jerseys/merchandise, but I would think most Redskin fans really care about the Lombardi Trophy and as this year is proving your chances of success improve when you take the less heralded approach. Look at this season's big spender if you need a stark reminder - the San Francisco 49ers - all the money spent and what was their great record - a pathetic 5-11 - records speak for themselves and buying a championship is an approach that keeps failing - when are teams going to finally realize this?[/quote]

I think the Danny probably sees his free agents signings the same way he did hiring people to work for him before he owned the Skins. As a young guy who was making money in an era when corporate benefits were waning & transience was more common than loyalty, he understands that today's best workers know their value & want to be well paid. His philosophy was never bad in theory, but hasn't worked in football for a no. of reasons. He's had his own learning curve to go through & hopefully he's learned enough to build a consistent winning team.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;400338]With what this team has accomplished and how they have done it, I really don't see much room for bitching and complaining.

Let's give credit where it's due.[/QUOTE]

I am all for giving credit to where it is due, but lets not forget this success seems small coming behind 6 or 7 years of some really poor talent evalution of lower round picks and free agents. I do not think there is anything wrong with pointing out how bad the drafting lower round picks and free agents (non-drafted) players has been. I mean really bad. It is not "bitching and complaining" when I am merely giving a different view point.
I give most of the credit to the new found success of finding hidden gems to Gibbs and not Cerratto. The success started when Gibbs and co, arrived. Cerrato has his own track record before Gibbs got here and it is not pretty.
We had the highest payroll $ and one of the lower performing teams.
The proof was on the field every Sunday. I do not care how talented our team appeared on paper.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

I give the front office major credit since Gibbs came back....
Look at this and smile:

[U]Free agent grabs[/U]:.
Smoot, Andre Carter, Griffin, Randel El, Springs, Washington, Frost, Fletcher, Randy Thomas, Brunell (playoffs), Collins (playoffs)
(Yes, we had 3 screw ups...Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd and Duckett but I'd take 3 vs all these good moves any day)

[U]Trades[/U]:
Portis, Moss

[U]Top picks have been solid[/U]:
Cooley, Campbell, Sean Taylor, Rodgers, Landry, McIntosh

and the last few years (last 2 in particular) with low rounds and undrafted free agents/CFL castoffs..etc:
Lorenzo Alexander, Golston, Heyer, Anthony Montgomery, Chris Wilson, Shuisham, Sellers

The only thing missing is success in the mid-rounds of the draft.

Just think of our roster 4 years ago with Spurrier.....what a turnaround!

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;400410]I am all for giving credit to where it is due, but lets not forget this success seems small coming behind 6 or 7 years of some really poor talent evalution of lower round picks and free agents. I do not think there is anything wrong with pointing out how bad the drafting lower round picks and free agents (non-drafted) players has been. I mean really bad. It is not "bitching and complaining" when I am merely giving a different view point.
I give most of the credit to the new found success of finding hidden gems to Gibbs and not Cerratto. The success started when Gibbs and co, arrived. Cerrato has his own track record before Gibbs got here and it is not pretty.
We had the highest payroll $ and one of the lower performing teams.
The proof was on the field every Sunday. I do not care how talented our team appeared on paper.[/QUOTE]

Ok then, should I change this thread title to "Is it time to stop harping on Desmond Howard and give Gibbs credit for his personnel evaluation skills?"

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;400410]I am all for giving credit to where it is due, but lets not forget this success seems small coming behind 6 or 7 years of some really poor talent evalution of lower round picks and free agents. I do not think there is anything wrong with pointing out how bad the drafting lower round picks and free agents (non-drafted) players has been. I mean really bad. It is not "bitching and complaining" when I am merely giving a different view point.
I give most of the credit to the new found success of finding hidden gems to Gibbs and not Cerratto. The success started when Gibbs and co, arrived. Cerrato has his own track record before Gibbs got here and it is not pretty.
We had the highest payroll $ and one of the lower performing teams.
The proof was on the field every Sunday. I do not care how talented our team appeared on paper.[/QUOTE]


Keep in mind...someone has to COACH the players....do you think HEYER would be successful without BUGES?
What about Montgomery and Golston?

Its the combination of a solid coaching staff's influence on who to target combined with daily work....especially with "less talented" players.
Spurrier did not have that ability...nor did Norv or Marty.
Spurrier makes his players look worse, Norv can only make his offensive players play to their potential and Marty....well....he likes to punt a lot.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;400417]Ok then, should I change this thread title to "Is it time to stop harping on Desmond Howard and give Gibbs credit for his personnel evaluation skills?"[/QUOTE]

I would agree with that...not only is Gibbs pretty good....but based on the last 2 years, he is getting better and better.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;400418]Keep in mind...someone has to COACH the players....do you think HEYER would be successful without BUGES?
What about Montgomery and Golston?

Its the combination of a solid coaching staff's influence on who to target combined with daily work....especially with "less talented" players.
Spurrier did not have that ability...nor did Norv or Marty.
Spurrier makes his players look worse, Norv can only make his offensive players play to their potential and Marty....well....he likes to punt a lot.[/QUOTE]

Yes I agree. But is it not the the job and responsibility of the Owner and Front Office to hire the coaching staff as well as draft the players?
So either way the Owner and FO made some decisions that did not work out and cost us some poor seasons.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;400423]Yes I agree. But is it not the the job and responsibility of the Owner and Front Office to hire the coaching staff as well as draft the players?
So either way the Owner and FO made some decisions that did not work out and cost us some poor seasons.[/QUOTE]

True...the best move the front office ever made was this.

They heaviliy recruited and rehire Joe Gibbs and have let him heavily influence most FO decisions

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;400430]True...the best move the front office ever made was this.

They heaviliy recruited and rehire Joe Gibbs and have let him heavily influence most FO decisions[/QUOTE]

I am glad we agree.
That was the point I was trying to make on my 1st post on this thread. I credit Gibbs with our new found success, not so much Cerratto.

Re: The Vinny and the Scouts Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;400397]I especially want us to recognize the work of the scouts for going out there and finding these guys. Like Bo Schembechler's son finding Anthony Montgomery, or Terry Ray for Chris Wilson, etc. Scouting can be a thankless job but it's so key to a team's success.[/quote]


I wish my name was Shemy Shembechler. Don't you almost have to join a Polka band with a name like that? Aren't you given one of those little Shriner parade cars (w/ hat) at birth?