RI: Early reflections
 

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

A few things stand out off the top of my head.

The front office structure will need some overauling. If Gibbs is not a consultant and not team president, then who will be atop the personnel pyramid? Vinny Cerrato? Will Gibbs retain that (as a consultant that would be quite rare). In the end, as Joe said again yesterday, Snyder has a massive say in their moves and acquisitions, so his voice remains. But you have to wonder how they figure out the front office. Also, heard from a bunch of people around the league who say that if Bill Cowher ever did come here, he would to have his own personnel people in place, which would mean no more Vinny, and this owner has a very close relationship woth Cerrato.

Also, if Gibbs was going to retire, why did he even speak about the QB situation at all? Why not leave it alone? Was it that important to go crazy about Collins and stir things up for Jason? As a consultant to Snyder Joe would have say in some matters, but not picking starting QBs or opening up competitions. Odd that Joe would even go there.

But the few definitive things he did say were that he wanted Collins re-signed and that he wanted to retain his staff. If you read the tea leaves, going to bat for the staff, and wanting his guys to get another contract out of this, would mean that you stay in-house.

But with this franchise and this owner, you just never know.

[B]AND:[/B]

Everyone here at Redskins Park is pretty stunned. One staff member who was in the room at 9 a.m. when Joe Gibbs informed the coaches of his decision said: "I am shocked and numb." The strong sentiment from the players and people here I spoke to today is that Gregg Williams should get the job, and that's coming from offensive and defensive players alike.

One former Redskin, who speaks daily to many of his former teammates, said: "It has to be Gregg, there's no doubt about it. If they go from outside guys will be pissed. Unless they want to tear up the team and go with a different group of guys, it has to be Gregg."

Spoke to some people close to Russ Grimm, a former Redskin and longtime esteemed NFL assistant, who said his current team, Arizona, had not been contacted by the Redskins. Of course, we are very early in the process so things could change. Bill Cowher, former Super Bowl coach with Pittsburgh, will be a name everyone talks about as well.

Jason Reid just spent some time alone with starting WR Antwaan Randle El, who played on Cowher's championship team in Pittsburgh. Randle El voiced strong support for Gregg Williams: "I want the best coach for the job and Gregg is certainly at the top of the list, no doubt. I would love to see him get it just 'cause we've gotten going with the crew that we have here. I would love to see Gregg keep it and let's keep our offensive coordinator. Let's keep all that intact."

Gibbs would commit to virtually nothing during his press conference Monday, but did say that he wanted to retain the coaching staff. As most are in their final year of the contract - and some, like LB Coach Kirk Olivadati, have contracts that are expiring - there would have to be a round of contract extensions in that case.

Spoke to the agents for several prominant coaches and coaching candidates this morning. They all said they believed Williams would get the job, but that was just their reading of the situation and did not come from conversations with Gibbs or Snyder.

Snyder loves Joe and no doubt Gibbs's voice will carry heavy weight with ownership.

Re: Early reflections
 

Four years, only 1 playoff win, 31-36 overall. Sigh. Not what any of us hoped for or expected. I appreciate the good group of players, but aside from that Coach Joe didn't exactly kick ass in his return. I guess you really can't go home again. I appreciate his intentions, and I do think he had us back on track to being a winning franchise, but now what? Back to toiling under the Danny and Vinny? Grrrrrrrrr...........

Re: Early reflections
 

Gibbs 2.0 created a strong organization of loyal, dedicated, never say die players but not a winning team. Yes they made two playoff appearences, which is more than most teams can say. But this team spent more than most to get there and they did not get there.

Re: Early reflections
 

Well, that at least gives me hope that Williams will be the next coach.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;404372]Well, that at least gives me hope that Williams will be the next coach.[/QUOTE]

So will he be Williams 2.0 since he was previously a head coach?

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;404382]So will he be Williams 2.0 since he was previously a head coach?[/QUOTE]

Only when people want to bitch about how he's too conservative.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=scowan;404368]Gibbs 2.0 created a strong organization of loyal, dedicated, never say die players but not a winning team. Yes they made two playoff appearences, which is more than most teams can say. But this team spent more than most to get there and they did not get there.[/QUOTE]

Who cares what the team spent? The team went with a quick and dirty approach (i.e., free agency) in lieu of spending 3 years trying to build a competitive franchise out of a roster filled with guys like Shane Matthews, Rod Gardner, etc. Given Gibbs' age, I don't fault them for that approach.

After 4 years we have a roster with decent depth, some quality starters and, perhaps most importantly, what appears to be a franchise QB. Moreover, after having gone 12 years with 1 playoff appearance, I'm happy with 2 playoff appearances and 1 playoff win in 4 years.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;404385]Only when people want to bitch about how he's too conservative.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of that, what is his legacy (besides losing some players with his style) from Buffalo? Can anyone speak on that?

Re: Early reflections
 

Gregg Williams MUST be the successor to Joe Gibbs.

We talk a lot about how Jason Cambell probably learned quite a bit as he watched Todd Collins operate Al Saunder's offense, but I also have to think coach Gregg Williams took away some invaluable lessons about leadership, character, and, yes, even coaching at the master's feet. It's quite possible that while Gibbs made some missteps on the field during his second tenure, the true impact of his return may have been the deposit he made on this coaching staff, particulary Gregg Williams.

I think more than know how, the players on this team want family to take over. After all they've been through together this season, I just can't see an outsider trying to get these guys to play for him. NFL players respond to coaches that have people skills and thrive under adversity.

Finally, Gregg Williams has restored the luster back to the defensive unit. Finishing eighth in the NFL 'aint too shabby. He's going to get back a couple of key starters from last year, Laron Landry just might be developing into one of the better safties in the NFC, and we've found our on the field general in London Fletcher. Williams has a good foundation to build on, and I think the players actually want him to be Gibbs successor. Let's hope so.

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404386]Who cares what the team spent? The team went with a quick and dirty approach (i.e., free agency) in lieu of spending 3 years trying to build a competitive franchise out of a roster filled with guys like Shane Matthews, Rod Gardner, etc. Given Gibbs' age, I don't fault them for that approach.

After 4 years we have a roster with decent depth, some quality starters and, perhaps most importantly, what appears to be a franchise QB. Moreover, after having gone 12 years with 1 playoff appearance, I'm happy with 2 playoff appearances and 1 playoff win in 4 years.[/quote]

Agreed 1000%. Rating our payroll or how expensive our coaching staff is, is a job for analysts and media who have nothing better to do and need to create a story where one does not exist.

Becoming a consistent playoff team is hard. Especially when all everyone remembers is the glory days.

I'll say this, with only a handful of exceptions, I'm a lot more confident about where this team is headed than most in the NFL, and all but one or two in the NFC. Maybe that's Kool-Aid, though.

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;404385]Only when people want to bitch about how he's too conservative.[/quote]

No, no...in Week 2 of next year, people will be whining that he's too aggressive and saying they miss Gibbs.

You can't please anyone around here.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;404408]Gregg Williams MUST be the successor to Joe Gibbs.

We talk a lot about how Jason Cambell probably learned quite a bit as he watched Todd Collins operate Al Saunder's offense, but I also have to think coach Gregg Williams took away some invaluable lessons about leadership, character, and, yes, even coaching at the master's feet. It's quite possible that while Gibbs made some missteps on the field during his second tenure, the true impact of his return may have been the deposit he made on this coaching staff, particulary Gregg Williams.

I think more than know how, the players on this team want family to take over. After all they've been through together this season, I just can't see an outsider trying to get these guys to play for him. NFL players respond to coaches that have people skills and thrive under adversity.

Finally, Gregg Williams has restored the luster back to the defensive unit. Finishing eighth in the NFL 'aint too shabby. He's going to get back a couple of key starters from last year, Laron Landry just might be developing into one of the better safties in the NFC, and we've found our on the field general in London Fletcher. Williams has a good foundation to build on, and I think the players actually want him to be Gibbs successor. Let's hope so.[/QUOTE]

I certainly want Grilliams to be the next head coach. That said, I have my reservations. Word is that his Buffalo players hated his cocky, "my way or the highway" philosophy. Coaches like Williams need to field consistent winners or they wear out their welcome fast.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I am just saying that the Skins not only spent more than anyone else on players, they also spent more than anyone on coaches. I am a huge Gibbs supporter and have been following our team since 1979. With this kind of payroll, the Skins should EXPECT to be better than .500 every year. Gibbs leaves the team in good shape, not great shape for the future, but he had a losing record and no Division Crowns to hang on the wall. I live in Tennessee Titans country and they made the playoffs with a terrible QB in Vince Young and $20 million still in the bank (under the salary cap.)

My expectations are high for this team and I don't want us to just say Aw Shucks he did a great job when we had only one season in four of 10 wins.

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404416]I certainly want Grilliams to be the next head coach. That said, I have my reservations. Word is that his Buffalo players hated his cocky, "my way or the highway" philosophy. Coaches like Williams need to field consistent winners or they wear out their welcome fast.[/quote]


But see, I think he's tempered some of that attitude under Gibbs.

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=12thMan;404425]But see, I think he's tempered some of that attitude under Gibbs.[/quote]

I think he has too.

Just from his interviews over the past few years he seems to have "mellowed" (probably not the right choice of word with him) a bit, and he's probably learned a few things from working under Gibbs for 4 seasons.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=scowan;404419]My expectations are high for this team and I don't want us to just say Aw Shucks he did a great job when we had only one season in four of 10 wins.[/QUOTE]

True, but he fielded 2 playoff teams in 4 years; lightyears better than what Spurrier and Norv managed to do. We were in just about every game we lost in those 4 seasons. We have a good roster. We may have a franchise QB. In short, those 4 years under Gibbs were better than any we've had since Gibbs left in 1992.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

This is just a thought, i was discussing with co-workers. Do you think J Gibbs stepped aside not only for personal reasons, but because GWilliams was going to leave for an open coaching position, ala Miami? Gibbs knew that would tear this team apart, so by retiring he allows the team and system to stay in place. Like I said, just a thought/theory.

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=12thMan;404425]But see, I think he's tempered some of that attitude under Gibbs.[/quote]

And these are already his guys. He has chased guys out of here too (Lavar, Pierce, AA) but these guys seem to love him. Fletcher even came here [I][COLOR=RoyalBlue]because [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=RoyalBlue][COLOR=Black]of GW.

I think whoever takes over gets a team 1000 times better. Looking back, I'd have to say that the team he took over was even worse than I thought at the time. Ramsey? Trung Canidate? Gardner? Trotter & Armstead? They finished 5-11 and really were lucky to win a couple of them and were blown out by 10-6 Dallas and 7-9 Tampa Bay. 2007 Redskins only lost 1 game that they weren't in at the end (NE) against the second toughest schedule in the NFL.
[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

Someone here just brought up an interesting point, the Skins have to interview a minority before they offer the job to Williams - The Rooney Rule. This will almost certainly cause things to drag out a little longer. They could interview Blache then Williams just to be safe, but I'm sure those two don't want to be a part of that dog and pony show.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;404466]Someone here just brought up an interesting point, the Skins have to interview a minority before they offer the job to Williams - The Rooney Rule. This will almost certainly cause things to drag out a little longer. They could interview Blache then Williams just to be safe, but I'm sure those two don't want to be a part of that dog and pony show.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd honestly be surprised if we heard anything before the end of the week for that very reason. However, the Rooney Rule supposedly got Tomlin the job even though he wasn't the running favorite heading into the interviews.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

It sounds stupid but I am just really scared. I don't want this team to become a mess. I really do hope it's Gregg. I don't think Al is head coach material, but at the same time I hope he isn't fired.

Because if we get a new coach, it will bring up QB controversy, along with a brand new system to learn, etc etc.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[quote=12thMan;404466]Someone here just brought up an interesting point, the Skins have to interview a minority before they offer the job to Williams - The Rooney Rule. This will almost certainly cause things to drag out a little longer. They could interview Blache then Williams just to be safe, but I'm sure those two don't want to be a part of that dog and pony show.[/quote]

What is the Rooney Rule? Is it official NFL rule?

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;404479]What is the Rooney Rule? Is it official NFL rule?[/QUOTE]

The Rooney Rule is a league rule that requires teams to interview at least one minority candidate prior to naming a new head coach. The NFL may levy substantial fines on clubs that violate the Rooney Rule.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404486]The Rooney Rule is a league rule that requires teams to interview at least one minority candidate prior to naming a new head coach. The NFL may levy substantial fines on clubs that violate the Rooney Rule.[/quote]

As a minority, I really think that is a stupid rule but whatever I don't want to make this thread into a affirmative action thread.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404486]The Rooney Rule is a league rule that requires teams to interview at least one minority candidate prior to naming a new head coach. The NFL may levy substantial fines on clubs that violate the Rooney Rule.[/QUOTE]
Certainly not to discredit any minorities, or minority candidates, but I would see Dan Snyder opening the checkbook and taking care of any substantial fines to put his guy in place...

It certainly sounds like Gregg Williams is the forerunner amongst the players.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I'm a Brit, do I count as a minority?

If I do I'd be more than happy to pop over for an interview if it helps GW get the job.


:)

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I'm sure Cowher is (if he hadn't already) discussing with Marty what it was like to work with Snyder. Marty has good things to say about DS but I'm sure he'll tell him that Snyder took a back to seat to Gibbs, but he may not do that with anyone else.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

If it is Gregg Williams. Don't be surprised if Randy Mueller and Chris Polian emerge as potential front office (GM/President?) candidates

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

Vinny must go. His incompetence as a GM scares me. If Snyder loves him so much he can give another job like Tom Cruise's assistant and masseur.
We can not go back to the miserable drafting and player personnel we had under the two headed GM Monster of Snyderatto.
Snyder and Cerratto should just join a fantasy football league if they want to continue their wonderful work together.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I am shocked and saddened by the news. 4 years ago this week was one of my most joyful weeks as a Redskins fan when Gibbs announced his return. While we didn't achieve the greatness that many predicted the second time around, Gibbs has certainly left the Skins on solid footing with a large contingent of young players at the core. I've said it before and I stand by this: Jason Campbell will prove to be the most significant acquisition that Gibbs made after his return.

With the bond that this team forged over the last month in the wake of Taylor's death, I can only see that sustained if we keep the other coaches here who shared that experience with the players. Gregg Williams should be the new head coach, and Saunders should be given complete autonomy over the offense. If The Danny behaves as he has in the past by bringing in a big name like Cowher, it will demonstrate that he learned NOTHING from the poor results that followed his prior assaults on team stability prior to Gibbs returning.

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I wouldn't be thrilled per se if it is Cowher, but I think of worse "big name" choices. Ultimately, I think Cowher sits out another year before he returns to coaching. Which could be worse because then we might be facing a situation where we have a one year lame duck coach until Cowher is ready to join the team (not unlike Spurrier wanting to spend one more year at Florida).

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;404536]If it is Gregg Williams. Don't be surprised if Randy Mueller and Chris Polian emerge as potential front office (GM/President?) candidates[/QUOTE]

Isn't Chris being groomed to replace Bill in Indy?

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404600]Isn't Chris being groomed to replace Bill in Indy?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily, he nearly interviewed with the Falcons until he turned it down. Mainly because it looks like Tom Heckert (Eagles) is going there. I believe he might be interviewing with the Bills as well

Re: RI: Early reflections
 

I gotta tellya, it just has to be Williams - has to be. I understand that Cower is a great coach and all, but I really think this team is beyond just another great head coach.

I think these guys are bidding for something a little more at this point. They want to enter next year fighting together. I also still get the sense, they want to somehow fully redeem Taylor; at least on the field. Just because they've turned the calendar on a new NFL season, Taylor will live on with them. I know that kind of inspiration can only last for so long, but I think it's still very present in their minds.

Secondly, Gregg Williams is now connected to this group of players that transcends contracts, the salary cap, and the business aspect of football. He inheirently understands the marching orders now. For the past four years, Gregg Williams has re-learned leadership 101 from Joe Gibbs. He understands the vibe. I think he knows when to back off and when to press.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;404408]Gregg Williams MUST be the successor to Joe Gibbs.

We talk a lot about how Jason Cambell probably learned quite a bit as he watched Todd Collins operate Al Saunder's offense, but I also have to think coach Gregg Williams took away some invaluable lessons about leadership, character, and, yes, even coaching at the master's feet. It's quite possible that while Gibbs made some missteps on the field during his second tenure, the true impact of his return may have been the deposit he made on this coaching staff, particulary Gregg Williams.

I think more than know how, the players on this team want family to take over. After all they've been through together this season, I just can't see an outsider trying to get these guys to play for him. NFL players respond to coaches that have people skills and thrive under adversity.

Finally, Gregg Williams has restored the luster back to the defensive unit. Finishing eighth in the NFL 'aint too shabby. He's going to get back a couple of key starters from last year, Laron Landry just might be developing into one of the better safties in the NFC, and we've found our on the field general in London Fletcher. Williams has a good foundation to build on, and I think the players actually want him to be Gibbs successor. Let's hope so.[/QUOTE]

You've made some really good points, and I agree wholeheartedly. But something tells me Dan Snyder isn't listening.

Call it a hunch.

Re: Early reflections
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;404416]I certainly want Grilliams to be the next head coach. That said, I have my reservations. Word is that his Buffalo players hated his cocky, "my way or the highway" philosophy. Coaches like Williams need to field consistent winners or they wear out their welcome fast.[/QUOTE]

Three things about this issue that may be comforting:
[LIST=1][*]That Buffalo team wasn't a cohesive football team held down by a tyrant. His successor compiled a 14-18 record there in two years before leaving. Maybe Williams was a "tough guy" because that's what they needed to compete.[*]This Washington team is very aware of what they're getting (if he is hired). Gregg has been with the team for four years. He arrived in Buffalo as the head coach after they had just had three years of Wade Phillips (who isn't a taskmaster by reputation) - the Redskins know what to expect.[*]He's had Joe Gibbs as a mentor and friend for these past four years.[/LIST]

Re: Early reflections
 

[quote=BrudLee;405012]Three things about this issue that may be comforting:[LIST=1][*][B]That Buffalo team wasn't a cohesive football team held down by a tyrant. His successor compiled a 14-18 record there in two years before leaving. Maybe Williams was a "tough guy" because that's what they needed to compete.[/B][*]This Washington team is very aware of what they're getting (if he is hired). Gregg has been with the team for four years. He arrived in Buffalo as the head coach after they had just had three years of Wade Phillips (who isn't a taskmaster by reputation) - the Redskins know what to expect.[*]He's had Joe Gibbs as a mentor and friend for these past four years.[/LIST][/quote]

Good point. Losing teams tend to have a problem with tough coaches, and typically that's why they are losers in the first place.