Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

His pothead supporters won't think this is very groovy:

[URL]http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129[/URL]

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

Did anyone catch him on Meet the Press? I know a lot of people love him for his anti-war stance, but that's a very small part of the puzzle. I'm a "mainstream libertarian" and I think the guy is nuts.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I've read about his different stances and I like the guy a whole hell of a lot more than Huckabee. Even though I vote democrat.

I'd rather see Ross Perot as president before Huckabee. :doh:

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;405198]I've read about his different stances and I like the guy a whole hell of a lot more than Huckabee. Even though I vote democrat.

I'd rather see Ross Perot as president before Huckabee. :doh:[/QUOTE]

Really? As a Dem? The guy has all but explicitly stated that he'd like to get rid of the Department of Education, IRS, SEC, FCC, FTC, and all other departments but the DoJ and DoD. He also believes the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were mistakes and that segregation should be permitted in private places (e.g., restaurants and bars). The guy is off his freakin' rocker. I believe in small government, this guy believes in Mad Max.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

People who don't have a history in the Republican Party have a hard time spotting the whackos. Ron Paul may be the last gasp of the real extreme America First/John Birch Society nutjobs. I thought they were all dead by now. You have to understand that the reason he is oppossed to the Iraq War is that he thinks it was all orchestrated by the Jews. Please don't mistake this guy for something he's not.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405192]Did anyone catch him on Meet the Press? I know a lot of people love him for his anti-war stance, but that's a very small part of the puzzle. I'm a "mainstream libertarian" and I think the guy is nuts.[/quote]


I saw that interview on Meet The Press - unbelievable. I was in NH over the weekend, and this guy has a following like a cult. I mean they're everywhere.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;405233]I saw that interview on Meet The Press - unbelievable. I was in NH over the weekend, and this guy has a following like a cult. I mean they're everywhere.[/QUOTE]

When a mainstream candidate says that the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were a mistake, you know something is awry. I must admit that he intrigued me when I first heard about him, but after hearing him speak for more than 5 minutes I realized he was kind of bat-sh*t. I've got to chalk up his following to: (a) disenchantment with the political establishment; and (b) interest provoked by a Republican speaking out against the war. I can't think of any other rational explanation.

Any Ron Paul supporters care to weigh in?

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405241]When a mainstream candidate says that the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were a mistake, you know something is awry. I must admit that he intrigued me when I first heard about him, but after hearing him speak for more than 5 minutes I realized he was kind of bat-sh*t. I've got to chalk up his following to: (a) disenchantment with the political establishment; and (b) interest provoked by a Republican speaking out against the war. I can't think of any other rational explanation.

Any Ron Paul supporters care to weigh in?[/quote]

I don't know, but I di know that he touts himself as the Champion of the Constitution, which is scary in itself. Usually when someone thinks in such a way, they seriously lack balance.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;405242]I don't know, but I di know that he touts himself as the Champion of the Constitution, which is scary in itself. Usually when someone thinks in such a way, they seriously lack balance.[/QUOTE]

I'm aware of his "I defend the Constitution" mantra. Unfortunately, I've also heard him express his opinion as to certain legal matters involving the Constitution. He has no clue what he is talking about but his talking points seem to resonate with certain segments of the general public.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405247]I'm aware of his "I defend the Constitution" mantra. Unfortunately, I've also heard him express his opinion as to certain legal matters involving the Constitution. He has no clue what he is talking about but his talking points seem to resonate with certain segments of the general public.[/quote]

His message does resonate with a segment of the public. But I think those people generally agreee with him on an issue here and there. For instance, he's outspoken about the war but he also want's to get rid of the Federal Reserve. He's also made some controversial statements about public education.

I think if he were a leading candidate and was under the spotlight 24/7 like some of the others, most people wouldn't take as seriously as they suppose they do.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;405249]His message does resonate with a segment of the public. But I think those people generally agreee with him on an issue here and there. For instance, he's outspoken about the war but he also want's to get rid of the Federal Reserve. He's also made some controversial statements about public education.

I think if he were a leading candidate and was under the spotlight 24/7 like some of the others, most people wouldn't take as seriously as they suppose they do.[/QUOTE]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

His views are pretty diverse, and I think almost anyone in the country would agree with him on one point or another. I think he just hasn't gotten enough exposure for people to see the full spectrum of his ideas.

Personally I kind of like him. Not saying I'd vote for him, as I haven't researched him enough yet, but he's at least different and not afraid to speak his mind.

I think one of the things people find attractive is that he's very specific in his plans and ideas, very concrete. On the other side of the fence I think that's what Hillary has going for her too, she's pretty concrete and particular about what to change.

What blows me away is that people don't see through a guy like Obama. Listen to him speak for 20 minutes and you get this very nice, hopeful sounding bit of rhetoric with no real substance. Even go to the guys website and look at his stance on various issues and most of it is vague fluff. I finish listening to him and pretty much think, "Ok...that sounds very nice, but what the hell are your actual, specific plans?"

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=mheisig;405264]I think you hit the nail on the head.

His views are pretty diverse, and I think almost anyone in the country would agree with him on one point or another. I think he just hasn't gotten enough exposure for people to see the full spectrum of his ideas.

Personally I kind of like him. Not saying I'd vote for him, as I haven't researched him enough yet, but he's at least different and not afraid to speak his mind.

I think one of the things people find attractive is that he's very specific in his plans and ideas, very concrete. On the other side of the fence I think that's what Hillary has going for her too, she's pretty concrete and particular about what to change.

What blows me away is that people don't see through a guy like Obama. Listen to him speak for 20 minutes and you get this very nice, hopeful sounding bit of rhetoric with no real substance. Even go to the guys website and look at his stance on various issues and most of it is vague fluff. I finish listening to him and pretty much think, "Ok...that sounds very nice, but what the hell are your actual, specific plans?"[/quote]

Ron Paul is good for the process regardless of where he stands. Because at the end of the day, even if his policies and views are way off, at least he's engaging the American people on some level.

As far as Obama goes, since I'm actually supporting him, I won't dare get into anything that will dispute what you believe or think about him. But being around the campaign, I will say that he has definitely laid out some very concrete plans on a number of issues. It's just that the clamour around him is so "loud" at times, that's not what people are buzzing about.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a few weeks.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I'm still on the John McCain bandwagon (and have been for quite some time). I really didn't like the way he handled himself in the pass year or so, drifting away from the "Maverick" that spoke with passion against corruption in the Gov't, but he's still my front runner.

He's starting to make a nice little comeback, and against the likes of extremes like Romney and Giuliani... he looks more and more like the rational Republican. Here's a little excerpt from the Washington Post Op-eds today...

[INDENT]"Mr. McCain offers a voice of reason tempered by the knowledge that many voters are furious about illegal immigration. His deep knowledge of foreign affairs, clearheaded approach to the threat of Islamic extremism and unwillingness to abandon his support for the war in [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iraq?tid=informline"]Iraq[/URL], even when it threatened to cost him his bid for the presidency, are admirable, as is his unswerving opposition to the use of torture by U.S. personnel. Although we disagree with the [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Arizona?tid=informline"]Arizona[/URL] senator on a host of domestic issues, including tax policy, abortion rights and gay rights, his willingness to take on such issues as climate change and campaign finance reform -- neither of which were particularly popular with his party -- reflects well on his character and judgment."
[/INDENT]From [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR2008010804600.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

McCain is making a nice comeback. If I'm Republican, I think this is the guy you want to get the nomination. Mitt Romney has been trashing McCain of late, but I think it's just a matter of time before he's fully exposed for what he is.

Mac is Back!

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;405268]Ron Paul is good for the process regardless of where he stands. Because at the end of the day, even if his policies and views are way off, at least he's engaging the American people on some level.

As far as Obama goes, since I'm actually supporting him, I won't dare get into anything that will dispute what you believe or think about him. But being around the campaign, I will say that he has definitely laid out some very concrete plans on a number of issues. It's just that the clamour around him is so "loud" at times, that's not what people are buzzing about.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a few weeks.[/QUOTE]

There can be plenty of clamor around a candidate who is mostly "fluff."

He's young, good looking, excellent speaker. The masses love that, regardless of what he's actually saying or not saying.

Like you said, I'm really not even debating political viewpoints here, but more campaign/candidate strategy and presentation. I've read through his issue stances on his website, and it all strikes me as incredibly vague. It's stuff like "Let's improve healthcare" and why it's so important, but never gets into the nitty gritty of how he's going to do it. That's really not even commenting on him as a person or an individual, but how his team is presenting him to the public.

Like I said, Hillary does a better job of this than Obama. I'm absolutely not a supporter of her and it'll be a cold, brisk day in hell before I cast a vote for her, but I think she beats Obama out on presenting substance and being detailed.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=12thMan;405268]Ron Paul is good for the process regardless of where he stands. Because at the end of the day, even if his policies and views are way off, [B]at least he's engaging the American people on some level.[/B]

As far as Obama goes, since I'm actually supporting him, I won't dare get into anything that will dispute what you believe or think about him. But being around the campaign, I will say that he has definitely laid out some very concrete plans on a number of issues. It's just that the clamour around him is so "loud" at times, that's not what people are buzzing about.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a few weeks.[/quote]
That's what we need more of.

Sometimes, the candidates that don't have a real genuine shot at winning tend to be the most attractive. They'll speak there mind, and give you a lot of unadulterated information... that might not sound pretty, but is at least genuine.

Just because an idea is a little extreme, doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;405279]That's what we need more of.

Sometimes, the candidates that don't have a real genuine shot at winning tend to be the most attractive. They'll speak there mind, and give you a lot of unadulterated information... that might not sound pretty, but is at least genuine.

Just because an idea is a little extreme, doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.[/QUOTE]

Conversely, the candidates who are the forerunners seem to get more and more vague, as if by being specific and honest they think risk alienating people.

I guess if you're in front it pays to suddenly go vague and fluffy.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=12thMan;405249]His message does resonate with a segment of the public. But I think those people generally agreee with him on an issue here and there. For instance, he's outspoken about the war but he also want's to get rid of the Federal Reserve. He's also made some controversial statements about public education.

I think if he were a leading candidate and was under the spotlight 24/7 like some of the others, most people wouldn't take as seriously as they suppose they do.[/quote]
God forbid a person for making a comment about doing away with the well run federal public school system. I no nothing of the guy nor do I think I would vote for him but I get a kick out of when people talk about doing away with the federal school system. Everyone says its failing but its not the system failing its the lack of money. So we give them more money and things keep getting worse so we again give it more money and thing keep going down hill. If anyone metions doing away with the federal goverments role with schools everyone freaks out like they are doing such a great job. The way it works now we send our tax money to the fed then they take about 20% of the money for their share of cost in running schools then send us back the difference. We could increase spending with thet alone by 15 or more % then let the local people who know our local needs take care of education. If they are failing just vote them out of office.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=mheisig;405278]There can be plenty of clamor around a candidate who is mostly "fluff."

He's young, good looking, excellent speaker. The masses love that, regardless of what he's actually saying or not saying.

Like you said, I'm really not even debating political viewpoints here, but more campaign/candidate strategy and presentation. I've read through his issue stances on his website, and it all strikes me as incredibly vague. It's stuff like "Let's improve healthcare" and why it's so important, but never gets into the nitty gritty of how he's going to do it. That's really not even commenting on him as a person or an individual, but how his team is presenting him to the public.

Like I said, Hillary does a better job of this than Obama. I'm absolutely not a supporter of her and it'll be a cold, brisk day in hell before I cast a vote for her, but I think she beats Obama out on presenting substance and being detailed.[/quote]

Ummm...I beg to differ. There is, or at least there should be, a very comprehensive outline of his healthcare plan on the website. And I've personally heard him outline segments of it as well. Not one candidate - not one - has outlined their entire healthcare plan in a public setting. It's just too nuanced and detailed.

As far as Obama v. Hillary. There are some style differences in how they present their ideas, concepts and policies. I won't argue that point. He's definitely a dymanic orator, and if that's one of his strengths, then he should by all means play to his strengths. I think at this stage in the race though, enough people have kicked the tires and looked under the hood enough to know that there is more to Obama than flash and glitz.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=mheisig;405285]Conversely, the candidates who are the forerunners seem to get more and more vague, as if by being specific and honest they think risk alienating people.

I guess if you're in front it pays to suddenly go vague and fluffy.[/quote]

I agree with you here. Generally speaking, when a candidate is considered the front runner, he/she starts playing the polls like a scared boxer in the 12th round. Just don't get knocked out, play it safe. At that point, it's all about keeping the poll numbers steady.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I am one of the many undecided voters. That said, if I had to choose between Obama and Hillary, I would go with Obama every day of the week and twice on Sunday. In my view, Hillary is the ultimate flip-flopper. I have no idea where she stands on any given issue. And her latest "feel sorry for me because politics is hard" bit makes me chuckle. Isn't she the same one who wanted praise for being able to hang tough with the big boys?

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405305]I am one of the many undecided voters. That said, if I had to choose between Obama and Hillary, I would go with Obama every day of the week and twice on Sunday. In my view, Hillary is the ultimate flip-flopper. I have no idea where she stands on any given issue. And her latest "feel sorry for me because politics is hard" bit makes me chuckle. Isn't she the same one who wanted praise for being able to hang tough with the big boys?[/quote]

I tend to believe Hilary has virtually no chance.

Even if she somehow wins the primaries... The debates will destroy her.

She looks as if she's coached beyond belief. She hasn't said anything against the grain. It's as if she's the walking, talking, smiling and waving Democratic platform. I really think your going to need (to be a leader) some sort of defiant stance on a given issue.

Maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention to her...

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

The guy is irrelevant, he doesnt stand a chance at the presidency. He's just a nobody.

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Oh I didn't know that kinda stuff about Ron Paul. Honestly, I have never actually looked into his views on Civil Rights and stuff all I know is very superficial but what I knew I liked. But after all this, I'm over him. I'm still not voting for Huckabee, that guy is an Evangelist's wet dream. Not to hate on Evangelists, just the ones I've met are just a little too conservative and always have an "I'm better than you, because X" type of attitude.

I'm still riding the Obama train. Hillary has been losing a little support because of her constant thrashing of Obama lately and throwing that "he has no experience" excuse out there. How do you guys feel about that?

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[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;405396]I'm still riding the Obama train. Hillary has been losing a little support because of her constant thrashing of Obama lately and throwing that "he has no experience" excuse out there. How do you guys feel about that?[/QUOTE]

Hosting dinners at the White House and sleeping with the President for several decades does equal "political experience." I'm not sure why she thinks she can play the experience card when she has less political experience than Obama.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I'm still not sure what to think of Clinton and Obama. I thought Hillary made good points about herself and about the competition (particularly Barack) this past Saturday but it came across as kind of petty.

What I really didn't understand was when Obama said to Hillary "You're likeable enough" What was that all about?

Anyhow, either one I think is a far better choice than Ron Paul

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405405]Hosting dinners at the White House and sleeping with the President for several decades does equal "political experience." I'm not sure why she thinks she can play the experience card when she has less political experience than Obama.[/quote]

The reason my friend told me was because she "Has experience with foreign policy". Granted, I don't know much about Hillary and her foreign policy experience but apparently its more than what Obama has?

And apparently this experience is supposed to help us pull out of Iraq as well...?

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I wanted to start this very same thread but couldn't be bothered. I don't know if he was the author of some of the things that appeared on his newsletter but it was all done under his name.

I saw him on the Meet The Press too and he appeared quite foolish when he said I am against pork belly yet when pressed about 10 million dollars he slipped into a bill for his district he tried to explain his action by saying "but I didn't vote for it." Even worse, he tried to pass his actions off as means of getting a tax refund for his constituents. By his that logic any member of congress can make that same argument.

How f'ing disappointing...he's just another sad old man.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;405409]The reason my friend told me was because she "Has experience with foreign policy". Granted, I don't know much about Hillary and her foreign policy experience but apparently its more than what Obama has?[/QUOTE]

Hillary has been in the Senate since 2000 and Barak since 2004. Prior to that, Hillary was First Lady whereas Barak was in the Illinois State Senate. Neither one of them can play the "experience" card. To the extent that either one of them plays the "experience" card, I find it somewhat interesting that they are both playing the "change" card as well.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I think the best thing for the country is for Obama and McCain to win their parties' nomination. I feel like either one of those candidates is a solid step forward from where we are currently.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

John "10,000 Years In Iraq" McCain?

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

Just related to politics in general, the NY Times is really raising the bar in terms of media delivery for the elections this year.

One of their cooler apps is [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12/15/us/politics/DEBATE.html"]Naming Names.[/URL] Mouse over a name and you'll see the frequency of how many candidates reference the selected candidate. They're all pretty much equal until you mouse over Clinton, and there's a firestorm of comments from EVERYone about her. Kind of makes you think everyone is concerned about her if everyone's talking that much. She's certainly Target #1 for both sides.

Also nice is the [URL="http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/issues/index.html#/context=index/issue=health"]Election Guide[/URL] which summarizes each candidates stance on various issues.

Also cool but maybe not as useful is the [URL="http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/schedules/pastevents/index.html#candidate99"]Candidate Schedule Tracker[/URL] which charts visits to various spots in the country.

It's cool to finally see some useful tools on the web and watching the sites really push the technology. I wish the company I worked for were a little more cutting edge like the NY Times...oh well.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

I saw Hillary's crying moment the other day, and I am pretty sure she was method-acting. It makes me cringe to think about what sort of sick, perverted stuff she has to envision in her mind's eye to bring those tears forward. And the media all seem to have bought it. I thought they would have figured these people out by now.

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Yeah... it was completely an act... but so is all of politics (at least presidential).

Say what you want, but... it looks like it worked. She won didn't she?

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[QUOTE=RobH4413;405584]Yeah... it was completely an act... but so is all of politics (at least presidential).

Say what you want, but... it looks like it worked. She won didn't she?[/QUOTE]

Polls revealed that she got the biggest bounce post-crying among older women. Whatever happened to hanging tough with the big boys?

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405593]Polls revealed that she got the biggest bounce post-crying among older women. Whatever happened to hanging tough with the big boys?[/quote]


She breaks just like a little girl...

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

The Federal government is WAY too big, and incredibly inefficient. They do a better job at wasting money than they do at anything else. Ron Paul realizes this.

To begin fixing America's problems, we first need to fix our budget.

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He's not the ONLY one who realizes this, but he's definitely one of the most vocal.

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[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;405722]The Federal government is WAY too big, and incredibly inefficient. They do a better job at wasting money than they do at anything else. Ron Paul realizes this.

To begin fixing America's problems, we first need to fix our budget.[/QUOTE]

Besides platitudes (e.g., "the government is too big" and "I don't like the war") what does he stand for? Many of his ideas look interesting at first glance, but, upon closer examination, they are actually quite nuts.

Re: Interesting Ron Paul Newsletter Excerpts
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405789]Besides platitudes (e.g., "the government is too big" and "I don't like the war") what does he stand for? Many of his ideas look interesting at first glance, but, upon closer examination, they are actually quite nuts.[/quote]

He was on CNN denouncing this newsletter excerpt. Desperate times calls for desperate measures?