Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I have been watching alot of film and reading up on Gholston who declared for the draft after his junior season. He is 6'4" 265lbs which is a little small for the strong side DE but he has shown that he is a decent run stopper and a phenomonial pass rusher (Just ask Jake Long) With his 4.6 speed coming off the edge and he reminds me alot of Osi Umenyouira. But I wonder what you guys think of him thoughts? I think he would be an excellent fit here and would start from day one.

What do you guys think?

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I would take Calais Campbell out of Miami over this guy - Campbell is slightly slower with a 4.8 40, but his frame is bigger - 6'7" and 280 pounds plus, so I think Campbell can be an every down DE for us and take the punishment better than Golston. Campbell in 3 seasons had almost 40 tackles for a loss and a ton of sacks - pretty impressive if you ask me and Miami was not as good as Ohio State, so I bet that Campbell saw a lot more double teams than Gholston.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=Bill B;409450]I would take Calais Campbell out of Miami over this guy - Campbell is slightly slower with a 4.8 40, but his frame is bigger - 6'7" and 280 pounds plus, so I think Campbell can be an every down DE for us and take the punishment better than Golston. Campbell in 3 seasons had almost 40 tackles for a loss and a ton of sacks - pretty impressive if you ask me and Miami was not as good as Ohio State, so I bet that Campbell saw a lot more double teams than Gholston.[/quote]


yeah but Jake Long the top offensive lineman in the draft has been dominated by Vernon Gholston they are both good but the Umenyoria comparisons are hard to pass up.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;409451]yeah but Jake Long the top offensive lineman in the draft has been dominated by Vernon Gholston they are both good but the Umenyoria comparisons are hard to pass up.[/quote]

Earthquake - either player would be great - I just think DE must be the first round pick this year because Philip Daniels is pretty much uneffective when it comes to rushing the passer and I think as Daniels gets older his ability to stop the run will also go down too. Daniels is 34 now and outside of Carter no DE on the Skins scares any opposing teams offense right now. It was so frustrating to see how much time opposing qb's had because Daniels could not rush the passer.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=Bill B;409454]Earthquake - either player would be great - I just think DE must be the first round pick this year because Philip Daniels is pretty much uneffective when it comes to rushing the passer and I think as Daniels gets older his ability to stop the run will also go down too. Daniels is 34 now and outside of Carter no DE on the Skins scares any opposing teams offense right now. It was so frustrating to see how much time opposing qb's had because Daniels could not rush the passer.[/quote]


True. Defensive end should be the first pick in the draft for us. Maybe 2nd pick too

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;409456]True. Defensive end should be the first pick in the draft for us. Maybe 2nd pick too[/quote]

What will suck though is if both of these players are gone by pick# 21. Hopefully the Redskins braintrust will have a good plan of action come draft day and will still have most of their picks too.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I don't put alot of stock in it...but some of the early draft boards have us picking Limas Sweed (WR, Texas) in the 21st slot. I am not sure we pick WR in the first round with the dire need of DE and OL.

I would take either Gholston or Campbell!!!!

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

If we draft a receiver with the 1st pick, that would be a terrible start to the 08 season.
DE is a must!!!

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Position: DE
School & Year/Status: Ohio State - Junior
Height & Weight: 6'4 - 264 lbs.

2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report
Vernon Gholston is quickly becoming a force to be reckoned with. Gholston started all 12 regular season games at DE for the Ohio State for the second straight year. The fourth year junior finished with 15.5 tackles for loss this season, 14 of them sacks. The 6'4", 264 lbs. Buckeye is practically a fixture in opposing backfields the last two seasons. In November, he could be seen abusing the vaunted Michigan O-Line for 3 sacks and was the only man to beat Jake Long for a sack this season. Gholston has tallied 86 tackles, 30.5 tackles for loss, 22.5 sacks, and even intercepted a pass since being inserted into the starting lineup in 2006. Gholston plays what Ohio State calls the "Leo" end, a position that has to both pass rush and be able to drop into coverage when the Buckeyes are playing zone. He possesses excellent speed for a player his size and shows good instincts, playing the run and the pass. According to Ohio State's athletic website, Gholston benches 455 lbs., making him one of the strongest players on the team. Gholston shows tremendous promise. He displays good pass rushing moves and rarely will you find him out of position. After deciding to declare, Gholston should go somewhere


[url=http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2008/profiles.cfm?pos=DE]2008 NFL Draft: DE Prospect Analysis[/url]


Sounds good to me, but I doubt he falls to us and would rather we didn't trade up.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

he's a great athlete, but the knock on him is that he disappears some games.
I won't argue w/the idea of DE as 1st pick

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=Texanskin;409508]If we draft a receiver with the 1st pick, that would be a terrible start to the 08 season.
DE is a must!!![/quote]

What, you don't trust Cerrato to pick another receiver? How can you doubt him, after seeing how Rod Garnder and Taylor Jacobs turned out!

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Johnny Dingle (ha ha ha...I cant get over that name) might be worth a look if he falls to the mid to late rounds.

"Dingle finishes [this season] with 48 tackles (19 for loss) and nine sacks"

Edit: There is also Derrick Harvey who may be a good option for our first round pick.

[B]2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report[/B]
Harvey surprised many when he decided not to enter the 2007 NFL draft. He led the Gators with 11 sacks -- the fifth-highest single-season total in school history -- and capped the season off with a three-sack effort in Florida's rout of Ohio State in the BCS national championship game. He also had another tackle and recovered a fumble against the Buckeyes to earn defensive MVP honors. He was projected as a first-round pick by some analysts.
Harvey, however, felt he needed another season to develop -- he didn't begin playing football until his junior year of high school -- and started an extensive offseason training program that paid dividends this past season. He overcame being the focus of opposing offensive lines to amass 49 tackles -- 31 solo -- with 17 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks, which were both team-best totals. He earned second-team All-Southeastern Conference honors.
Harvey is simply a beast as a pass rusher, with his speed equal to his strength. He is known for getting great jumps off the ball and his technique is exceptional. He puts the heat on offensive linemen and virtually demands to be double-teamed. While his ability to get in the backfield draws the most raves, he's also solid against the run. He projects as a lock first-round selection and will likely be a top-20 pick.


[url=http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1308]Derrick Harvey Scouting Report - 2008 NFL Draft Prospect[/url]


It sounds like the guy is willing to put in the work to be a good player.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

YES
i am a huge OSU fan (dont ask me why cause I Dont Know haha)
anyways game after game i was left thinking man Gohlston is a BEAST
check this out
stops a Decent Size Running Back wth just his ARM
[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=0AyWLtterFA]YouTube - Gholston Clothesline Tackle[/url]

or this one where he powers straight through the Wolverines
[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg]YouTube - Vernon Gholston[/url]

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=WillH;409517]Johnny Dingle (ha ha ha...I cant get over that name) might be worth a look if he falls to the mid to late rounds.

"Dingle finishes [this season] with 48 tackles (19 for loss) and nine sacks"

Edit: There is also Derrick Harvey who may be a good option for our first round pick.

[B]2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report[/B]
Harvey surprised many when he decided not to enter the 2007 NFL draft. He led the Gators with 11 sacks -- the fifth-highest single-season total in school history -- and capped the season off with a three-sack effort in Florida's rout of Ohio State in the BCS national championship game. He also had another tackle and recovered a fumble against the Buckeyes to earn defensive MVP honors. He was projected as a first-round pick by some analysts.
Harvey, however, felt he needed another season to develop -- he didn't begin playing football until his junior year of high school -- and started an extensive offseason training program that paid dividends this past season. He overcame being the focus of opposing offensive lines to amass 49 tackles -- 31 solo -- with 17 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks, which were both team-best totals. He earned second-team All-Southeastern Conference honors.
Harvey is simply a beast as a pass rusher, with his speed equal to his strength. He is known for getting great jumps off the ball and his technique is exceptional. He puts the heat on offensive linemen and virtually demands to be double-teamed. While his ability to get in the backfield draws the most raves, he's also solid against the run. He projects as a lock first-round selection and will likely be a top-20 pick.


[URL="http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1308"]Derrick Harvey Scouting Report - 2008 NFL Draft Prospect[/URL]


It sounds like the guy is willing to put in the work to be a good player.[/quote]

Isn't Harvey projected as more of an outside LB?

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

see, if we go WR, the WR HAS TO BE BETTER THAN MOSS, or else its a wasted pick, since our depth is fine.

DE, or the other hand, is manned by a 34 year old who was never great to begin with, and the depth behind him isn't good at all.

i'm mainly seeing calais campbell or derick harvey on the mocks (DE), followed by WR (limas sweed (6'5"), malcolm kelly (6'4"), and dj hall (6'2")), followed by kenny phillips, miami safety.

i really don't think sweed's proven enough. dj hall is probably the best of those three (though he'll probably go up after combines, and sweed may drop). I like kelly more than sweed too, but he's definitely not my first choice of the players that'll be available (though he MIGHT be able to be a reasonable, but not great, #1).

**WR's are still really volatile right now, with bowman listed between 1st-4th rounds, hall between high 1st and 3rd rounds, etc. that won't clear up till combine and workout numbers get posted.

I like phillips as a tackler. didn't seem to get many ints though, and that's another 1st rounder on a safety (though we've hit pro-bowl/HoF possibilities on the last two, so it's not exactly a matt millen situation).

campbell (DE) would be an upgrade over daniels, but he doesn't really blow me away. hopefully i'm wrong though, since that seems to be the popular pick.

derrick harvey, on the other hand, is a very solid pick and i think (at this point) i'd be happier with him than the other guys i'd listed (and he's local, from greensbelt MD).

gholston, though, is an absolute beast, and there's no arguing it. he deserves to be a top 5 player, and is clearly the best DE of the draft. I see no way that he ends up in a redskins uniform.

if the rest of the mentioned players are there (depending on more research and workouts etc), I'd go:

harvey (DE)
phillips (S)
dj hall (WR) (who some have ranked as a 1st rounder and some as a 3rd... getting him in the 3rd would possibly be the draft's best value pick this year).

and not worry about the rest, since they really aren't going to make a huge difference in the W/L column.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I'd take either of those guys. Whichever is available when we are selecting. I like the speed and proven talent against the top OT in the NCAA with Gholston. However, something is intriquing about the size of Calais Campbell.

I remember watching Ed "Too Tall" Jones give the Redskins fits back in the day.

Campbell would be that kind of player!

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

there certainly aren't many prototype 4-3 ends that are highly rated the last few years. C. Campbell might be the best of the DEs to play in a 4-3. The Skins may have to continue the strategy of playing a run stopper (Daniels & an eventual replacement) & then bringing in speed as they did this year w/Washington & Wilson on pass downs.

Is it worth it to draft a guy in the 1st solely as a pass rusher? I think so & it appears a lot of GMs do. Teams pass the ball so much more nowdays. The Skins didn't like G. Adams last year, but he had a pretty solid year in Tampa as a pass rush specialist.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Guess the question I'm posing in the above post is; Will GW (assume he's HC) et al draft a pass rush specialist early in the draft, or look for a solid "every down" DE a little later. Lawrence Jackson of USC has been mentioned by Smootsmack I think as a guy that they like. He fits the bill of the every down DE but not one of the best pass rushers available.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

i think harvey and campbell are every down des, but not the greatest run stoppers ever. It's easier to learn to stop the run than to learn pass rushing (since the speed might not be there).

i mean, carter took one offseason and magically stopped getting pushed all over the place.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I'm a fan of what Vernon Gholston has done, but I'm also very high on Quentin Groves. The kid was a beast at Auburn and scout.com has him as their #3 DE available in this year's draft. That means that he could possible fall to us, he's a little smaller at 6'3" 252, but his 4.43 40 is pretty sick.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I am basing my post off of this post from the Big Name Coaches thread:

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/22076-rumors-big-name-coaches-3.html#post409691[/URL]

In this post was a link to this guy who has sources saying GW will be the coach, Springs will stay, Rogers prob wont be healthy much next season, and that GW wants to draft a CB with our first round pick. I felt discussion of who that CB might be fit better in this thread. This kid from Penn State sounds like a possible prospect:

Justin King Scouting Report
Position: CB
School & Year/Status: Penn State - Junior
Height & Weight: 6'0 - 186 lbs.
Ranked #37 on our Top 100 Prospects Board

2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report
Justin King is a top notch CB prospect. The 6'0", 186 lbs., junior from Penn St. has the tools to shut down NFL receivers. He went through a few shaky spots this season, but overall has done a great job in coverage. King finished this season as a First Team All Big Ten selection. He totaled 49 tackles and 2 INTs this season, despite the opposition throwing away from him most of the season. King also led the Big Ten this season with 17 passes defended. King has defended top flight college receivers all season, facing Dorien Bryant, James Hardy, Mario Manningham, Arrelious Benn, and Brian Robiskie, with good results. He shows good ball skills in coverage and has blazing speed. King will need to hit the weight room, so he can play press coverage when needed against NFL receivers. Pittsburgh Post Gazette columnist Ron Muselman reported [B]King had 4.3 or better speed in the 40[/B]. The thing that makes King an exciting prospect is this is only his second year as a full time CB. Because of injuries, King was forced to play mostly at wide receiver during his freshman year. Corner is one of the toughest positions to play in football and[B] his relative lack of experience shows how good he could be with NFL coaching[/B]. An added bonus with King is his [B]experience at both receiver and as a return man at Penn St. Justin King is an excellent corner, with unlimited potential. The shaky end to his year might see him slide to the end of the first round.[/B]

His speed instantly makes him an exciting prospect, and at 6'0 he is no shrimp at the CB position (wasn't D. Green like 5'8?). He could possibly help for receiver depth late in the season when WRs are often nicked up, and his return skills is a huge bonus considering Cartwright will most likely be gone. Finally, if he falls to late in the first round he will definitely be there at our 21st pick, and we could possibly trade down a bit, get some extra mid-round picks, and still pick him up. Any thoughts?

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;409454]Earthquake - either player would be great - I just think DE must be the first round pick this year because Philip Daniels is pretty much uneffective when it comes to rushing the passer and I think as Daniels gets older his ability to stop the run will also go down too. Daniels is 34 now and outside of Carter no DE on the Skins scares any opposing teams offense right now. It was so frustrating to see how much time opposing qb's had because Daniels could not rush the passer.[/QUOTE]

I like your thinking Bill. What I can't wrap my little ole mind around is the concept that a corner would be our first rounder. It only makes sense if there is an absolute shutdown mofo out there who somehow falls to us (I don't think King fits the description). I say this because Springs has proven reliable since he changed his training/conditioning; Smoot is a gutsy sob and Rogers should be back sometime next season. Also, Torrence looked better throughout the season - kid's got wheels like few guys in the game so why can't GW and Grey just coach him up a bit? So yeah, I like DE or o-line for the first pick (depending on the very best player available to us between those two positions). If JJ is gone than we damn well better invest in some talent at tackle, and we need talent at guard in case RT or Kendell go down, and we need a DE, and we need to big threat at WR, and... wait a minute. Do we have enough picks?:laughing-

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

The main issue with a guy like Gholston at 265 pounds is not that he's any worse of a player because he's light in the ass. The best pass rushers in this league are grossly undersized. The issue is when you look at the defensive line as a unit, and as a unit it's small, then you've created a monster weakness for offensive coordinators to exploit.

Look no further than the Raiders for proof of this. The Raiders DL in 06 was on the small side, but mostly it was just good. Warren Sapp reports to camp as a 270 lb DT the next season, and all of a sudden teams have no reason to ever throw the ball against the Raiders.

The Raiders pass defense was still pretty good this season, but it did not matter because they were so terrible against the run. And like us, their LBs are pretty darn good.

The main point is that we are already playing with one 260 lb DE (who admittedly has improved against the run), and it would be beneficial not to have to play with a second.

Gholston is probably a better player than Andre Carter would ever be, but you couldn't have defensive success with Gholston and Carter at the ends. It would have to be one or the other.

With Calais Campbell, that wouldn't be an issue. Even at 280, Campbell is probably a much better pass rusher than a run stopper. But you can line him up at LE, and not give the opposition a clear weakness on the DL. The other thing that move does is allows Carter to continue to play the RE, and not have to be the main pass rushing threat.

I want to be clear here: I'm not advocating the use of the selection on a guy who can stop the run and not rush the passer. We need a guy who can rush the passer off that left end, and one who can be the primary pass rushing threat. Think Mario Williams. The key is to not create a glaring weakness that we would have to compensate for schematically.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

well, campbell did have 84 total tackles in 06... ghoulston and harvey were closer to 50 each.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I like Campbell, and I think he may be there, but lets see what happens at the combine. Remember Alan Branch.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

He won't fall to us, and if he did, I see him falling to the 2nd like Alan Branch did. He's not the type of player we need on Dline.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Gholston will be gone by pick 15 at the least. We might get Campbell in the first round or maybe luck out by getting someone like Groves or Chris Ellis in the second round. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if we drafted a WR, RT, or CB with the first round pick. Each of these positions are stacked in the draft. We actually have decent depth at defensive line. Golston, Montgomery and Chris Wilson played well when they were in the line up. The offense was the weak link last year so I say draft o-line or WR if we dont get Chad Johnson.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Gholston should be a great player for many years but the last thing we need is another undersized DE. Carter is small and quick but can play the run...I am not so sure Gholston can pass rush and play the run effectively. If he cant and we draft him he might only be used on passing downs. Id rather have a end that can play any down. We can get a great DE without necessarily using a 1st round pick. Everyone keeps using the name Umenyiora... a second round pick. Julius Peppers was a number 1 overall pick and how many sacks did he have last year, How about Jammal Anderson? How remember Kenard Lang? who we picked over Warren Sapp, or Courtney Brown. There have been more 1st round busts at DE than pro bowlers.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I wouldn't be opposed to taking Gholston or Campbell with our first draft pick, but I"m not a fan of trading picks to move up. I wouldn't be opposed to taking a defensive end in the later rounds too because some teams are able to find good pass rushers in the later rounds of the draft. I was a big fan of Elvis Dumervil when he was in college and now he's a great pass rusher for the Broncos even though he was drafted in the fourth.

I also think we need to look at all our needs here and pick the best player available that fits one of our needs in the first round, whether it's wide receiver or defensive end.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=Coff;409514]What, you don't trust Cerrato to pick another receiver? How can you doubt him, after seeing how Rod Garnder and Taylor Jacobs turned out![/quote]

Cerrato wasn't even here when we drafted Rod Gardner, as that was Marty's year with the skins. Taylor Jacobs had Spurriers finger prints all over it as he was a Gator.

Cerrato hasn't taken a receiver early in the draft, however I'd like to see a DL taken early in the draft and would love Gholston or Campbell, however an impact DT would be nice as well.

Then again, maybe we could get Albert Haynsworth in FA and draft a DE.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[QUOTE=Coff;409514]What, you don't trust Cerrato to pick another receiver? How can you doubt him, after seeing how Rod Garnder and Taylor Jacobs turned out![/QUOTE]

If I remember correctly, Gardner was Schottenheimer's choice and Jacobs was selected by Spurrier... Let's give credit where credit is due.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

I'm not opposed to drafting a DE with our first pick in the first round at all, if thats the best player available. I think a speed rushing DE to compliment Carter would be great, and high on the priority list.

But I would be surprised if VG doesn't go top fifteen, I don't see him falling all the way back to 21.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

gholston is by far the best speed rusher, and i'd take him in a minute, but he's a top 5-10 pick, so we won't have the chance. even though he's a bit small when we also have carter, he's WAY WAY better than campbell, who's only an average pick at best and probably not a very good value at #21.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

he is pedigree, and a beast

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

Trade the packers for Kabeer Gabaja Biamila. He played behind Cullen Jenkins and still put up 9.5 sacks. Plus, he loves Jesus as much as Coach Zorn. Plus, when he sacks tony romo, I can yell K-G-B in cowboy fans faces and beat my chest and stuff. I would enjoy that.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

KGB is only a part time player now, a short term guy, and pretty happy in GB, so i don't see it happening unless GB decides to ditch him.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

We have 2 go DE end 1st & 2nd if possible then OL we need 2 get 2 the QB with just our down 4 DL the giants proved that.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

redskins are going to sign justin smith to play de

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

[quote=goingdeep;423300]redskins are going to sign justin smith to play de[/quote]


got any links that say we are interested and dont let SmootSmack read this.

Re: Vernon Gholston DE, Ohio State
 

gholston is good but i doubt we can get him at 21