GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Interesting article.

[url=http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/SPORTS06/19596035/1005]Williams is not such a safe pick - - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/url]

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

looks like even the writers are getting bored.....

Not to rush you but come on Dan, make a choice so we can move on to complaining/critiquing the draft.....

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Screw all those silly stats about coaches getting hired and fired. It doesn't matter when it comes to our situation. Who is the best guy to lead this team right now? Greg Williams is. But it's becoming very apparent that GW isn't going to be the next HC IMO. Otherwise what's the hold up? Perhaps GW wants to clean house on the offensive side of the ball and bring in his own people? Who knows.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

We can call them silly stats all we want but the numbers dont lie. GW was a dud in Buffalo. If he hadnt been a Skins assistant and was being mentioned as the next HC most of the "geniuses" on this site would be screaming bloody murder.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=irish;409688]We can call them silly stats all we want but the numbers dont lie. GW was a dud in Buffalo. If he hadnt been a Skins assistant and was being mentioned as the next HC most of the "geniuses" on this site would be screaming bloody murder.[/quote]

But he was an assistant here in Washington...you can play the "what if" game all night long, fact is, he's here, the players like him, Gibbs supports him...get it done

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;409689]But he was an assistant here in Washington...you can play the "what if" game all night long, fact is, he's here, the players like him, Gibbs supports him...get it done[/QUOTE]

His history and the history of coaches in his situation suggest he will not be successful.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=irish;409690]His history and the history of coaches in his situation suggest he will not be successful.[/quote]

Who will be then? I think his "situation" is great. An up and coming team, with a quarterback who's starting to get better. This isn't the NFL purgatory that is the Buffalo Bills.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

It's coaching man, you gotta look at all the talent he had on buffalo and compare it to now. Comparing coaches stats are not like players stats, you cant just assess it so easily. Maybe, the players justy didnt buy into his system in buffalo, and they obviously do here, i bet if gw is the coach he would be successful, but if he's not i still want to see him stay here as Ass. HC D.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

You didn't like Gibbs. Now you seem to be leaning against Williams. Who would you hire? Is there anything the Redskins have done that you have not voiced opposition to? I understand contrarianism but throw us a bone here. Sometimes I'm tempted to think that you represent some sort of fifth column inside this forum. Subversion from within.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=irish;409690]His history and the history of coaches in his situation suggest he will not be successful.[/quote]


depends on which catagory you put him in. are you putting him in the former assistant or former head coach catagory ?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Hey Irish -- I bet you would have been a pissed Pats fan when you hired that guy that was a total flop in Cleveland... What was his name? Belli something?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=irish;409690]His history and the history of coaches in his situation suggest he will not be successful.[/quote]

And Ronald Reagan should have died in office. It didn't happen, either.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[url=http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=was&tid=2232392&lid=2]ESPN.com: Washington Redskins Message Board[/url]

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;409708][URL="http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=was&tid=2232392&lid=2"]ESPN.com: Washington Redskins Message Board[/URL][/quote]


Don't know who the simple sandwich mans source is..? But, I would have to believe that at least MOST of us thought that would be the time frame for the new HC hire (sometime first to mid next week).

IMO I also THINK that the majority of folks here and else where think the hire is gonna be the inside candidate GW. I believe this is the VERY BEST HC choice for the team moving forward.

Some of his other thoughts are rather interesting. (Springs staying which I hope is accurate. JJ maybe being let go? CB 1st pick?)

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Gregg Williams is the choice for continuity - as long as he keeps Al Saunders. It would be a major setback for him to fire Al.

I think Gregg is the way to go, but I am not fully sold on him personally. I want to see him be able to co-operate with Saunders. I also want Todd Collins to have a fair chance to compete for the starting job. No one should be afraid of letting the best man play - let the competition decide who is more capable.

If Gregg can do those things, then I will be behind him.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

That was one of the least informative articles I've ever seen, I guess that is why I don't read the Washington Times (well, there are some other reasons too). Williams only had three years on a not-so-good Buffalo team and like Belichick I'm sure he learned from his time there. Williams might get the job, he might not. If he does he might work out and he might not, but the numbers offered in that worthless Times article won't make a difference. If that is the best case to make against Williams you might want to try again.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;409725]That was one of the least informative articles I've ever seen, I guess that is why I don't read the Washington Times [B](well, there are some other reasons too).[/B] Williams only had three years on a not-so-good Buffalo team and like Belichick I'm sure he learned from his time there. Williams might get the job, he might not. If he does he might work out and he might not, but the numbers offered in that worthless Times article won't make a difference. If that is the best case to make against Williams you might want to try again.[/quote]

Too conservative for your liking?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=Daseal;409700]Hey Irish -- I bet you would have been a pissed Pats fan when you hired that guy that was a total flop in Cleveland... What was his name? Belli something?[/quote]

Ouch, and once again Irish won't respond to something that totally destroys his pessimistic views.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Make GW head coach. Keep Al Saunders. Get rid of Don Breaux.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Any coach that is not GW means we are going through a rebuilding year or two.

I don't think any DC fan wants that.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;409696]You didn't like Gibbs. Now you seem to be leaning against Williams. Who would you hire? Is there anything the Redskins have done that you have not voiced opposition to? I understand contrarianism but throw us a bone here. Sometimes I'm tempted to think that you represent some sort of fifth column inside this forum. Subversion from within.[/QUOTE]

I'm not against GW. History is.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Choice of Newspapers and writers might not be the RIGHT Choice???

[QUOTE=irish;409684]Interesting article.

[url=http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/SPORTS06/19596035/1005]Williams is not such a safe pick*-*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/url][/QUOTE]

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=irish;409775]I'm not against GW. History is.[/quote]

Um...not really.

Look, that's really a poorly written article. The stats about coaching backgrounds and success rates are interesting, and that part seems researched well, but the author's conclusions have no basis in those stats - he makes them up. At best, he is saying he has no basis to compare GW to other former head coaches. Of course, that's not a compelling story. That's the problem with sleight-of-hand statistics.

Bottom line - I don't mind a bash-GW thread, but this article demonstrates zippy. The article is, in the immortal words of Schneed, ...

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

I think people are really starting to over think this.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

I read the article and found the writer's logic and reasoning to be borderline preposterous. I put it on the level of (a) people eat more ice cream in the summer, (b) more homicides are committed in summer therefore, (c) eating more ice cream causes more homicides

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;409794]I think people are really starting to over think this.[/quote]

Was it the 5 threads dedicated to Jim Mora that tipped you off?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[QUOTE=irish;409775]I'm not against GW. History is.[/QUOTE]

I guess another former Defensive Coordinator Bill Bellichicken who bombed in Cleveland, should never been hired in New England? Three Super Bowls later Bellicheck prives your logic does not work. Sometimes good coaches are hired into bad/no win situations. Buffalo still sucks long after Williams has left. Likewise Cleveland is just now becoming a good team.
Sometimes front office and owner situations prevent a team from winning even if Vince Lombardi is your coach. Some teams are bad for long period of time and it sometimes has nothing to do with the coach. Our Redskins have not been deep in the playoffs since 1992. In those 16 long years we even had a hall of fame coach for five of those years.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=Defensewins;409800]I guess another former Defensive Coordinator Bill Bellichicken who bombed in Cleveland, should never been hired in New England? Three Super Bowls later Bellicheck prives your logic does not work. Sometimes good coaches are hired into bad/no win situations. Buffalo still sucks long after Williams has left. Likewise Cleveland is just now becoming a good team.[/quote]

This case was brought up earlier and Irish conveniently ignored it.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

Not entirely accurate to say Belichick "bombed" in Cleveland. The team steadily improved during his first four years, leading to a playoff victory against Parcells and New England in '94. Right afterwards, though, Modell announced his decision to uproot the team to Baltimore, resulting in a lame-duck year and a situation that NO coach could survive.

For the record, I have no problem with GW as coach. My problem is with Danny and his chief fluffer (Vinny) picking players, giving away draft picks, and turning our salary cap into a giant Ponzi scheme. The ideal scenario: GW is joined by Floyd Reese, his buddy from Tennessee and one of the more successful and resourceful GMs in recent history. Vinny goes to work for Six Flags.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;409689]But he was an assistant here in Washington...you can play the "what if" game all night long, fact is, he's here, the players like him, Gibbs supports him...get it done[/quote]
I may be wrong but when has Gibbs came out and said that he supports GW over any other head coach?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=firstdown;409813]I may be wrong but when has Gibbs came out and said that he supports GW over any other head coach?[/quote]

Behind closed doors, which is just as it should be. It's possible that the "sources" for this info are wrong, but it seems to be the one consistent thing we are hearing. I have no reason to doubt that it is happening.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;409693]Who will be then? I think his "situation" is great. An up and coming team, with a quarterback who's starting to get better. This isn't the NFL purgatory that is the Buffalo Bills.[/quote]
I like JC but I'm but I'm not sold on the fact that he is our next francise QB at this point. You said he was getting better maybe in stats but his win loss colume is still not very good. He has shown sign but he was on a 4 game loosing streek when he was injured. It took a 2nd string QB to turn around our season. I'm hope we have an open compition for the starting QB in training camp.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

gw will not be hc BRIAN BILLICK will be you new hc

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=firstdown;409816]I like JC but I'm but I'm not sold on the fact that he is our next francise QB at this point. You said he was getting better maybe in stats but his win loss colume is still not very good. He has shown sign but he was on a 4 game loosing streek when he was injured. It took a 2nd string QB to turn around our season. I'm hope we have an open compition for the starting QB in training camp.[/quote]

Todd Collins did not single-handedly "turn around our season". He was a part of it, yes, and he did a great job. A lot of other factors went into it. Blaming the wins and losses on the QB in this situation doesn't make sense.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=onlydarksets;409818]Todd Collins did not single-handedly "turn around our season". He was a part of it, yes, and he did a great job. A lot of other factors went into it. Blaming the wins and losses on the QB in this situation doesn't make sense.[/quote]
I'm not blaming any QB but they do get the credit for the wins and the losses just as the coaches get the credit for the same. It does make sense when the QB throws very bad picks late in the games when we are driving the ball. Like I said I like JC but he still has to prove that he is a francise QB. Can you honestly say he shown that he is at this point?

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=onlydarksets;409815]Behind closed doors, which is just as it should be. It's possible that the "sources" for this info are wrong, but it seems to be the one consistent thing we are hearing. I have no reason to doubt that it is happening.[/quote]
Well right now all of this stuff is rumors. Not sure of the guys name but he is the reporter on the skins network and is on the Riggo show. He has said several times that he does not have a clue of what is going on except for who has been interviewed.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=firstdown;409821]I'm not blaming any QB but they do get the credit for the wins and the losses just as the coaches get the credit for the same. It does make sense when the QB throws very bad picks late in the games when we are driving the ball. Like I said I like JC but he still has to prove that he is a francise QB. Can you honestly say he shown that he is at this point?[/quote]Unless, you know, they are undeserving of the credit. Then it's just bad analysis.

Collins played better than Campbell this year, but that doesn't mean he (JC) didn't make strides.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;409801]This case was brought up earlier and Irish conveniently ignored it.[/QUOTE]

The key element you are missing is that Bill B made the playoffs in Cleveland. Coaches that have made the playoffs tend to make the playoffs with their new team. Coaches that didnt dont with the new team either.

In the end I really dont care who becomes the Skins next coach. I'm not too excited about GW because we have seen what he is like as a head coach and its nothing great but if he's picked its fine by me. I'd prefer a young new head coach with new ideas and I don't believe that a coach from the outside means a rebuilding process must happen. NFL teams are constantly being tweaked and a new coach (as well as GW) knows who on the team can play and who cant. When Tomlin came to the Steelers the Steelers didnt blow-up the team and start over. He took the talent on the team and made improvements (like any coach taking over for the Skins will do) to help the team be better.

In the end no matter who is named HC there will be changes as there would have been had Gibbs stayed.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;409824]Unless, you know, they are undeserving of the credit. Then it's just bad analysis.

Collins played better than Campbell this year, but that doesn't mean he (JC) didn't make strides.[/quote]
I'll agree he made stride but not enough for me to crown him as our franchise QB. If he does not show us more next year then it may be time to look for another QB.

Re: GW might not be the smart choice.
 

He's played one season. Most "franchise" QBs get at least a few seasons to make their bones (Peyton, Palmer, Eli, Rivers, Leftwich, McNabb, Vince Young, Cutler, Bulger). If you're ready to jettison a QB after 3/4 of a season on a team riddled with injuries, you probably don't have the patience for this game. Point being, JC has played solid with some rookie mistakes, which is the best you can expect out of 99% of the 1st year starters out there. If you don't give it time, we will never have a franchise quarterback. It worked for Gibbs in the 80s, but it's not the winning formula in today's NFL.