Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22360396/]Opinion: Brady trying to end debate about best-ever QB - NFL - MSNBC.com[/url]

The article is a bit old, but it's also front page news on Yahoo.com, analysis love to go back and forth about whether he is the best/is going to be the best.

I don't really have a comment because I don't watch the Pats enough to make a decision. All I know is the guy is going for his 4th Superbowl ring and if keeps this up, he's going to run out of fingers.

Just wanted to let you guys share your opinion.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I don't think he is but I can understand why some people think he is... This question would be different to everyone since there's really no wrong answer.... I think if he keeps playing how he's playing now he probably will be but I wouldn't consider him the best QB ever but that's just me.... Yet

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

Let's just say by the end of his career he will be in the discussion.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

How many QB's have won 4 Superbowls? Brady is about to do that. Only Bradshaw comes to mind and the Steelers won with Defense primarily. Brady is putting up ridiculas stats and the Perfect Season is just icing on the cake. I hate the guy, but he will probably be the best ever by the time he is done. He may not own every passing record like Favre, but he will have won more and have more rings. That is how we all measure greatness.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

Joe Montana won four super bowls, theres an article on espn from last week that lists their opinion of the top qb performances in the super bowl. doug williams was third, all of montana made the top 25 including first. Ill try and find the link, someoen probably put it on the site.

So by Brady breaking Mannings record this year does that end the "Brandy for Manning" argument. Because it used to be Mannings stats vs Bradys rings, now they both have rings, but brady has two more (possibly three), and his stats this year were top notch.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I hate the term "best ever". You could say one of the best, from Slinging Sammy Baugh, Johnny U, Terry Bradshaw, Snake Stabler, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, John Elway, Brett Favre, Tom Brady and I know I missed some. How can you say best ever? Some were fortunate to be surrounded by a great team/teams (Montana, Bradshaw) others due to the system, different eras, etc. I would equate them all the same.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

i never really thought about Brady being a top tier qback, until now. he has to be mentioned with the likes of Montana and Bradshaw, if they win it this year. for me, its all about the wins

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=dmek25;412602]i never really thought about Brady being a top tier qback, until now. he has to be mentioned with the likes of Montana and Bradshaw, if they win it this year. for me, its all about the wins[/quote]


Was Terry Bradshaw a good QB or just a product or a great team? Im not aruging I just never saw him play.

I was in a job interview the other day and the guy wanted to hire me even though I wasnt an exact fit for the job, and he said "I take the Chuck Knoll approach, Terry Bradshaw wasnt predicted to be a good Qb but he was a great atlete that he made fit into a system. You draft talent not role players"

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=scowan;412581]How many QB's have won 4 Superbowls? Brady is about to do that. Only Bradshaw comes to mind and the Steelers won with Defense primarily. Brady is putting up ridiculas stats and the Perfect Season is just icing on the cake. I hate the guy, but he will probably be the best ever by the time he is done. He may not own every passing record like Favre, but he will have won more and have more rings. That is how we all measure greatness.[/quote]

So you consider Terry Bradshaw one of the best ever because he won four SBs?

Even horrible/mediocre QBs can be on a SB winning team. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon...

Rex Grossman was on a team that nearly won a SB.

Brady has played on some great teams, but he's nowhere near being up in the class of Unitas, Montana, Elway, Marino and the best ever. At least, yet...

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

Yes...hands down he is. I give him most of the credit for the Pats. After having 1 winning season out of 5 in Cleveland, Belichek was 5-13 in the 1st 18 games of his coaching tenure with the Pats before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady entered the picture. They became a winning team imediately when Brady got on the field. 3 Super Bowls later and a 4th on the way it is clear that Tom Brady is the best QB of all time and by the time he retires there will be no discussion at all.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

First, I have to say I am biased. I hate Brady. I despise him. I hate the fact that when he throws an interception, he runs to the opposite side of the field to where the ball is, yet is the first to trash talk to a defender. You don't see Manning doing this. He goes for the tackle (he may fail miserably, but at least he tries). As far as Superbowl rings, I do not, and never have, seen these as an individual accomplishment. It is the compilation of an entire team and coaching staff that wins a Superbowl. The Patriots are an excellent team :vomit:. Belicheat is an excellent coach :vomit:. Brady is an excellent QB :vomit:. If the Patriots win the Superbowl, they will be the best team in history :vomit:. However, I believe that if Manning was a Patriot, those rings would be his; if Favre was a Patriot, those rings would be his; if Marino (in his prime) was a Patriot, those rings would be his. I could go on. I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady or his accomplishments and record setting year. I'm just not ready to crown him yet either.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I definately think if he does win a 4th superbowl - at his young age - he will probably go down as the best ever to play - right now I would say he is one of the top QB's to play. this season is impressive, no doubt. but take a look at his previous rings, they are more impressive to me given the talent that was around him. This season's offense has so much talent from top to bottom you kind of expect the amazing season. The previous 3 bowls were on teams that had decent talent, but not overwhelming like this years.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I'm afraid he's the best ever. Noone better than him ever at QB in NFL. That's the whole package of SuperBowls, Leadership, Winning, STATS, and toughness.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I have always met with great difficulty in digesting that best ever concept. While most will agree Brady is a fine QB, best ever will be argued.

I've had the good fortune to witness the work of so many very good QB's through the years, long before Super Bowls, or before many of the stats that are kept today were kept. There have been so many different era's in the history of the game that it's difficult to sit on one point in time and say, this one, or that one is the greatest.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;412601]I hate the term "best ever". You could say one of the best, from Slinging Sammy Baugh, Johnny U, Terry Bradshaw, Snake Stabler, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, John Elway, Brett Favre, Tom Brady and I know I missed some. How can you say best ever? Some were fortunate to be surrounded by a great team/teams (Montana, Bradshaw) others due to the system, different eras, etc. I would equate them all the same.[/quote]

I agree. I don't think there's a consensus "best ever" and there shouldn't be. It's too tough to compare players across different eras.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm]Career Passer Rating Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Ok, Brady currently has the 4th best passer rating for a career behind Steve Young, Peyton Manning, and Kurt Warner and has the same number of rings (3) as all 3 of them combined and may pass them in a week. Only Farve and Manning have more TDs of current active QBs, (I don't think anyone will pass Farve), but the key is wins and Brady has a better winning percentage than any other QB out there.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

Joey T=Best ever :)

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

How many 4th quarter comebacks does he have? Rings and wins are pretty hard to use as the de facto criteria since you need to be on a great team to achieve them. He is great and has been on a very good team that has maintained it's core group of guys from the players to the head coach. When it comes down to it, I would pick Elway as my QB when I have 2 minutes and 90 yards to go. Brady is probably in my top five of that particular sceanrio along with Marino, Montanna and Manning.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

My personal top 10 in no particular order, and I'm basing this only on QBs that I have seen play in my lifetime:

Brady
Manning
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Kelly
Favre
Young
Marino
Moon

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I was waiting until after the SuperBowl to break out last years Tom Brady thread so GTripp and I could continue the epic debate, but Dynamite Rave has thrown my plans for football argument glory into disarray. Last year we debated the Tom Brady issue at great length and one of the most popular arguments against Brady's standing as an all time great QB was that his regular season stats didn't really match up to someone like Peyton Manning. He of course already has the greatest post season winning percentage of all time so that stat was huge for Brady supporters. Anyhow after the best statistical year a quarterback has ever had and on the verge of a fourth Super Bowl Brady supporters like myself now have a massive stockpile of ammunition.

Brady is the greatest QB in the NFL. He is better than Manning. He is quite possibly the greatest QB and therefore quite possibly best player ever to play in the NFL.
I don't even particularly like the guy, but he is a winning machine and those are just the facts.

Have a look at the old thread if anyone has an hour to burn and is really bored.
[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/16782-tom-iceman-brady-20.html?highlight=Tim+Iceman[/URL]

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;412638]My personal top 10 in no particular order, and I'm basing this only on QBs that I have seen play in my lifetime:

Brady
Manning
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Kelly
Favre
Young
Marino
Moon[/QUOTE]

Not a bad list. I might sneak Phil Simms into that top 10. I always thought he was underrated.

And you know who else I liked that never gets much love is Neil Lomax.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I thought about Simms, he's up there. Great mention on Lomax. If he played anywhere else he would have been a household name. Very good QB stuck on a loser team/franchise.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

It's hard to tell. Brady has always been a stud, but he's had a pretty spectacular line that makes him look even better. How many QBs can go to their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th reads and come back to the 1st and 2nd reads without getting pressure. It's insane how much time he has to pick defenses apart.

I am personally going to root for Osi to drill him in the Super Bowl.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but the poster asked a question; Is Tom Brady the best ever? Ever being the key word, means when it comes to NFL QB's is Brady the best to ever play his position. In reality, it's an IMPOSSIBLE question to answer. In order to answer that question, one would have to have witnessed every player that played QB, and none of us qualify.

The question is comparable to Jack Johnson who was a bare nuckles fighter, to Muhammad Ali who was more a modern day champion. Based on the response's to the post, maybe the poster would should consider rephrasing his question and ask instead; Is Brady the best we've seen in the last 20-25 yrs....That, in my opinion would be more appropiate than EVER.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

NO. SAMMY BAUGH IS.. How many Interceptions has Brady made (not thrown), what is Brady's punt avg? ahh that's what i thought..

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

bottom line .... yes

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;412674]NO. SAMMY BAUGH IS.. How many Interceptions has Brady made (not thrown), what is Brady's punt avg? ahh that's what i thought..[/quote]


I beleive tooche is the word that we are all searching for right now

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

He very well could be the best Qb of all time. Who's done more with less talent around him. His wr's were Deion Brach, Troy Brown, David Patton and David Givens?? C'mon. What has Givens, Patton and Branch done since they left NE? Nothing. Now they put talent around him and he explodes for 50ts's and 8ints. What's most impressive is as much as they throw the ball he only threw 8 picks. That just playing QB at the highest level possible. The only guys I've seen come near this type of QB play is Marino, Kurt Warner for two years, Culpepper for one year, Moon in the run and shoot and Elway. But as great as Elway was, he never put up huge passing stats like Brady has this year. Perhaps it's cause they just didn't throw it as much.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

Let's just say I have very strong opinions on this one.

Before this year, you would have been off your rocker if you thought you could even mention Brady with the likes of the all-time greats. Before this year, he hadn't really seperated himself from the Palmer's, Brees', Bulger's, or Hasselbeck's of the world despite playing on some historically great teams, and winning multiple super bowls. It was a joke after the super bowl last year to even compare him to Peyton Manning.

One year later, he's definately got to be in the discussion.

I would say that in terms of great quarterback years, Brady's 2007 ranks third to only Steve Young's 1994, and Dan Marino's 1984 in terms of greatest year ever by a quarterback, and is pretty close to tied with Manning's 2004. (He broke the historic tenth year trend!)

Right now, Brady has yet to prove that 2007 was any more than an uncharacteristically great year for a pretty good quarterback. If he can replicate his numbers this year through the 2008 and 2009 seasons, then I think he should get some serious pull for best quarterback ever.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;412689]He very well could be the best Qb of all time. [B]Who's done more with less talent around him[/B]. His wr's were Deion Brach, Troy Brown, David Patton and David Givens?? C'mon. What has Givens, Patton and Branch done since they left NE? Nothing. Now they put talent around him and he explodes for 50ts's and 8ints. What's most impressive is as much as they throw the ball he only threw 8 picks. That just playing QB at the highest level possible. The only guys I've seen come near this type of QB play is Marino, Kurt Warner for two years, Culpepper for one year, Moon in the run and shoot and Elway. But as great as Elway was, he never put up huge passing stats like Brady has this year. Perhaps it's cause they just didn't throw it as much.[/quote]Marino. Arguably Favre too.

I still rate Manning above him. Though Manning has always had far more to work with, there was always a Grand Canyon sized gap between them prior to this season. This year has gone a long way towards filling that gap.

Then again, if we credit Manning's weapons for his success, we do have to point out that's Brady's weapons this season are perhaps the greatest in history.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

There will probably never be a consensus best ever. Why people feel the need to even debate it is beyond me.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;412638]My personal top 10 in no particular order, and I'm basing this only on QBs that I have seen play in my lifetime:

Brady
Manning
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Kelly
Favre
Young
Marino
Moon[/quote]Hmm. If did my "football" lifetime (roughly '99-present), it would probably look something like this:

1) Manning
2) Favre
3) Brady
4) Warner
5) Gannon
6) Trent Green
7) Bulger
8) Brees
9) Romo
10) Hasselbeck

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

steve spurrier was the greatest qb ever, do the heisman pose steve, strut your stuff!

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;412694]There will probably never be a consensus best ever. Why people feel the need to even debate it is beyond me.[/quote]I don't think debate always has to be about coming to a consensus.

With that said, there is always a correct answer to every question. The bigger question is, will we ever find the answer.

Case in point: Though their career's mirrored each other's, either Dan Marino was better than John Elway, or Elway was better than Marino. While there is no one statistic that conclusively proves that one was better than the other, it can be conclusively said that they were not perfect equals in terms of skill.

I can make you a pretty flawless argument that Marino was the better of the two, but that would hardly end the debate.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;412697]Hmm. If did my "football" lifetime (roughly '99-present), it would probably look something like this:

1) Manning
2) Favre
3) Brady
4) Warner
5) Gannon
6) Trent Green
7) Bulger
8) Brees
9) Romo
10) Hasselbeck[/quote]

Romo after a year and a half of starts? Wow.

I would toss him out and put McNabb on that list if we're only going back to '99.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;412701]I don't think debate always has to be about coming to a consensus.

With that said, there is always a correct answer to every question. The bigger question is, will we ever find the answer.

Case in point: Though their career's mirrored each other's, either Dan Marino was better than John Elway, or Elway was better than Marino. While there is no one statistic that conclusively proves that one was better than the other, it can be conclusively said that they were not perfect equals in terms of skill.

I can make you a pretty flawless argument that Marino was the better of the two, but that would hardly end the debate.[/quote]

Well my basic point is people always seem to want to crown a single player as being the best ever, and as you allude to it's just not that simple. So why bother trying to figure out who was the best ever? There's a handful of guys who are always in the discussion, I just don't get the need to name one guy as the best ever.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;412697]Hmm. If did my "football" lifetime (roughly '99-present), it would probably look something like this:

1) Manning
2) Favre
3) Brady
4) Warner
5) Gannon
6) Trent Green
7) Bulger
8) Brees
9) Romo
10) Hasselbeck[/quote]


I agree with Matty, no Romo, McNabb would be third on my list behind manning and brady in terms of post 99 production. Id also put Carson Palmer on there. Culpepper has some great years with Moss but its hard to overllook the 'after moss years'.

Record wise big ben is near the top of the list too

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;412703]Romo after a year and a half of starts? Wow.

I would toss him out and put McNabb on that list if we're only going back to '99.[/quote]I had to ask myself, "if Tony Romo were to stop improving altoghether, would he make my list".

I thought he still would. He's certainly better now than McNabb ever was. If Romo keeps improving, he's going to rank higher on that list.

Remember, I was one of the last people on this fourm to come around on Romo. I was ultra skeptical of him because he was undrafted. I actually had him ranked in the mid 20's in current NFL QBs in that offseason list we did. Once he proved that he was no one year wonder, I gave him his props.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;412707]I agree with Matty, no Romo, McNabb would be third on my list behind manning and brady in terms of post 99 production. Id also put Carson Palmer on there. Culpepper has some great years with Moss but its hard to overllook the 'after moss years'.

Record wise big ben is near the top of the list too[/quote]

yeah I was thinking of Culpepper too, but life after Moss has been pretty ugly for him.

Re: Is Tom Brady the best QB ever?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;412708]I had to ask myself, "if Tony Romo were to stop improving altoghether, would he make my list".

I thought he still would. He's certainly better now than McNabb ever was. If Romo keeps improving, he's going to rank higher on that list.

Remember, I was one of the last people on this fourm to come around on Romo. I was ultra skeptical of him because he was undrafted. Once he proved that he was no one year wonder, I gave him his props.[/quote]

I dont think id agree that Romo is better now than McNabb ever was. This is actually a great discussion because they both had TO, but McNabb has also been great with James Thrash and Todd Stinkson...