Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

I know this has been discussed before but I wanted to see if anyone had answers to a couple of questions as it relates to Coach zorn and the implementation of a new offensive system. I saw that Jim Zorn said he was going to keep most of the running scheme that was in place before he was hired by the Redskins and the passing game is where most of the changes will occur.

1.) I was wondering though - is this in the best interest of Clinton Portis? It seems that Portis thrived under the Denver Broncos spread offense and I would think that a running attack that uses more of a spread would really improve his numbers.

2.) How different is the West Cost Offense than the Broncos spread offense? I just wanted to see if anyone could provide clarification as far as if these schemes are vastly different and if they are not and if the Skins are going to put in a new playbook why not adjust the running game to Portis's strengths?

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

Good thread. I look forward to reading the answers

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

I doubt everything will stay the same despite what he's saying now. At the very least we're going to see different types of formations. I think what he's saying is the basic blocking schemes will remain the same, (i.e. zone blocking), but anytime you put in a new offense there are going to be some changes.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

When you look at the running plays Seattle has employed over the past few years under Holmgren, it's been a running attack that's focused on getting to the edge and running off the guard/tackle gap.. Also, look for us to run more out of a 3 or 4 WR look.. I think we've seen the last of the counter trey and the super jumbo package as we've known it. (Thank GOD!)

It's going to be a combo of the Denver like stretch attack and the quick hitting power game off the guard's outside hip. Since we're going to pass a little more as well, expect more draws and screens..

Portis and Betts will get a full workout in this offense but may not absorb as much punishment.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

i get the feeling it,s going to be a spread offense type of feel with a running game thrown in there.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=birdz4gibbs;420604]i get the feeling it,s going to be a spread offense type of feel with a running game thrown in there.[/quote]


I agree it will be more of a spread offense. The Counter and Jumbo plays are gonna be a thing of the past. "everything evolves eventually."

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

I think the only thing Zorn has comitted to, is keeping the terminology of the running and blocking game the same. He didn't say he would call the same plays in the same order or in the same proportion. I think he will end up doing what he likes to do. Although, I suspect Bugel can be fairly persuasive.

As for Denver, their passing game was all west coast as that is Shanahan's background. Sprint Option Right, the Montana to Clarke pass,was their pet goalline play. Their running game was a departure from what Walsh had done in S.F as it emphasized zone rather than man blocking, most famously the stretch play. But, the reality is that all offenses emphasize different things and borrow from various systems. Al Saunders had West Coast elements in his system. Even within the West Coast there is a wide variation. If you were to watch just Andy Reid, you would think the West Coast was largely based on the screen pass. If you were to watch just Green Bay you would think it was based largely on the slant. And, if you were to watch Denver you would think it was a run-first system. The biggest change will be the terminology. That and the fact that he will bring the "fast break" approach that Seattle employed. I've been saying for a while that the Redskins could greatly help themselves by "playing faster" and Zorn is all about that. But in terms of the actual plays, I think a lot of it will be appear very similar. Santana will still go deep. Cooley will still attack the post, etc.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=Paintrain;420589]When you look at the running plays Seattle has employed over the past few years under Holmgren, it's been a running attack that's focused on getting to the edge and running off the guard/tackle gap.. Also, look for us to run more out of a 3 or 4 WR look.. I think we've seen the last of the counter trey and the super jumbo package as we've known it. (Thank GOD!)

It's going to be a combo of the Denver like stretch attack and the quick hitting power game off the guard's outside hip. Since we're going to pass a little more as well, expect more draws and screens..

Portis and Betts will get a full workout in this offense but may not absorb as much punishment.[/quote]

Yeah that jumbo crap has got to go. Seattle never ever runs jumbo when they get in short yardage.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

Question, will the changes be able to be made with our current O-line guys?

I'm sure that Portis and Betts will be able to adapt and have success no matter how they run, as long as they can block for them.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

if Zorn runs the west coast that similar to the eagles, this is probably great news for Portis. most of its stretch plays, and draws. almost all of the stuff is towards the outside, between the guard and tackle.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=dmek25;420729]if Zorn runs the west coast that similar to the eagles, this is probably great news for Portis. most of its stretch plays, and draws. almost all of the stuff is towards the outside, between the guard and tackle.[/quote]That's going to be an important key to this next season. Our center/guard run game is pretty pathetic right now.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

I believe that the running game will totally look like the Seahawks running game and that is why we are going after their running backs coach. I really like there running game since it does not waste time getting our backs to the line and then explode. Shaun Alexander was just hurt and afraid of contact which is the complete opposite of Portis. I believe that Portis will have a good year like those Alexander's years. I do believe that this offense will be more finesse than power. I really am excited about this change since we will go away from the power and get more explosive with the finesse. I was watching some of Seattle games on their multimedia and there offense is sick. I believe our talent level is better than theirs but the most important, QB, is off the charts. If we can get Campbell to be half as good as Hasselbeck we will be in good shape. SORRY FOLKS WE WILL BE A FINESSE TEAM NEXT SEASON!!

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=70Chip;420680]I think the only thing Zorn has comitted to, is keeping the terminology of the running and blocking game the same. He didn't say he would call the same plays in the same order or in the same proportion. I think he will end up doing what he likes to do. Although, I suspect Bugel can be fairly persuasive.

As for Denver, their passing game was all west coast as that is Shanahan's background. Sprint Option Right, the Montana to Clarke pass,was their pet goalline play. Their running game was a departure from what Walsh had done in S.F as it emphasized zone rather than man blocking, most famously the stretch play. But, the reality is that all offenses emphasize different things and borrow from various systems. Al Saunders had West Coast elements in his system. Even within the West Coast there is a wide variation. If you were to watch just Andy Reid, you would think the West Coast was largely based on the screen pass. If you were to watch just Green Bay you would think it was based largely on the slant. And, if you were to watch Denver you would think it was a run-first system. The biggest change will be the terminology. That and the fact that he will bring the "fast break" approach that Seattle employed. I've been saying for a while that the Redskins could greatly help themselves by "playing faster" and Zorn is all about that. But in terms of the actual plays, I think a lot of it will be appear very similar. Santana will still go deep. Cooley will still attack the post, etc.[/quote]Good post. Every "modern" offense runs a lot of elements of the west coast. Being a "west coast" offense simply refers to the fact that you want to call yourself that. The offense that Atlanta ran during the Mora tenure was "west coast" even though it had about as much similarity to the Walsh-WCO as Martyball does.

It's a tweak in philosopy, but a good one. Basically, it means we aren't going to get Portis pounded into submission when it clearly isn't working.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;420735]SORRY FOLKS WE WILL BE A FINESSE TEAM NEXT SEASON!![/quote]Care to explain what that actually means?

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

Finesse mean we will not be running power runs but more outside the tacke runs and more screens to the running back. We will see an o-line change next season. We will be having more mobile and agile olineman that get up the field. I believe that Thomas and Samuels stay but everyone else is in jeopardy of getting released. We will not be using anymore jumbo packages unless we are at the goal line. We will also be using more misdirection in our running plays. This is the Seattle West Coast running attack.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;420877]Finesse mean we will not be running power runs but more outside the tacke runs and more screens to the running back. We will see an o-line change next season. We will be having more mobile and agile olineman that get up the field. I believe that Thomas and Samuels stay but everyone else is in jeopardy of getting released. We will not be using anymore jumbo packages unless we are at the goal line. We will also be using more misdirection in our running plays. This is the Seattle West Coast running attack.[/quote]OK, I can buy that.

Finesse isn't a bad thing then, correct? It's just different.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

I just hope no matter what, that JC gets the new look down and can continue his awesome development. Hopefully Zorn won't have to concentrate on JC as much since JC won't have to learn 700 pages worth of stuff.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;420877]Finesse mean we will not be running power runs but more outside the tacke runs and more screens to the running back. [B]We will see an o-line change next season. We will be having more mobile and agile olineman that get up the field. I believe that Thomas and Samuels stay but everyone else is in jeopardy of getting released.[/B] We will not be using anymore jumbo packages unless we are at the goal line. We will also be using more misdirection in our running plays. This is the Seattle West Coast running attack.[/quote]


Could the SKins cap wise could really release Jansen, Rabach and Kendall and find viable replacements while dealing with restructuring all the contracts to get under under the current salary cap? Good offensive lineman are hard to come by and if you find one that is available via free agency it is probably not going to come cheap (unless you get a draft pick that delivers) - I would think you could replace maybe one, but an overhaul just doesn't seem like an option with our current salary cap situation. Just trying to look at this from a salary cap perspective - Schneed, Crazy Canuck and the other capologists on the board can offer better insight on this, but my opinion is from a cap perspective it will probably take a couple of years to bring in new lineman via the draft and a free agent or two as the method the Skins have to take to do what you are saying.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[QUOTE=hagams;420684]Question, will the changes be able to be made with our current O-line guys?

I'm sure that Portis and Betts will be able to adapt and have success no matter how they run, as long as they can block for them.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!
Seattle's run game suffered when they Lost Hutchinson. Hopefully Zorn being a Quarterback, He will put some emphasis on the oline.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

Portis could be a 2000 yard back... seriously he's gold if someone can find the right plays to keep him moving... hopefully Zorn's attack will help

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

The broncos offense is similar to the WCO,except for the deep ball and power sweep.The redskins are equiped to run the WCO with the players they have..Actually they are very well stacked by talent..

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

Someone mentioned finesse, and finesse is the name of the game in the WC attack. It features both ball control and big play potential, Ball control in the way of short, intermediate, and play-action passing resulting in first downs, moving the chains and possession of the ball.

The main goals of the running back, as well as the fullback in this particular offense is to be able to block and catch. They have to be able to pick up blitzing linebackers, and catch passes in the underneath areas vacated by linebackers. Look for Portis, Betts and Sellers to have their fair share of catches as well as rushing atempts. I expect to see some power running in some situations, draw plays and spread options plays from three wide sets. Spread the defense in the running game, and attack it's weakest point through motion and formation.

The most important position in this offense is the QB position, preferably one with the ability to throw a complete inventory of passes. Short, and medium range passes are essential to be able to complete in this offense. Not having the complete inventory of passes in his arsenal does not preclude him from being effective, but it can be a meaningful factor. Look for JC's speed, footwork and acuracy to improve in this offense. His downfield ability adds a powerful dimention to this particular offense.

Re: Running Game Scheme Question under Coach Zorn
 

[quote=Bill B;420542]I know this has been discussed before but I wanted to see if anyone had answers to a couple of questions as it relates to Coach zorn and the implementation of a new offensive system. I saw that Jim Zorn said he was going to keep most of the running scheme that was in place before he was hired by the Redskins and the passing game is where most of the changes will occur.

1.) I was wondering though - is this in the best interest of Clinton Portis? It seems that Portis thrived under the Denver Broncos spread offense and I would think that a running attack that uses more of a spread would really improve his numbers.

2.) How different is the West Cost Offense than the Broncos spread offense? I just wanted to see if anyone could provide clarification as far as if these schemes are vastly different and if they are not and if the Skins are going to put in a new playbook why not adjust the running game to Portis's strengths?[/quote]
Don't know if this is related or not... but during the press conference Zorn commented on the fact that he'll work off of what a lot of the coaches already in place.

He alluded to the possibility of using the status-quo running game as a foundation, citing the fact that Bugel knows how to gear a team towards running the ball.