Loose Change
 

Wow.

I was hanging out with a buddy of mine last night that I hadn't seen in ages.

Anyway, we we're screwing around on YouTube and he brought this up. It's a long video, a little over an hour but, damn, it's worth watching it.

Make you think a little, huh?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE]YouTube - 911 Loose Change (full-length)[/url]

Re: Loose Change
 

I've seen this video. I know I had my concerns I should say about what happened here, meaning DC, the day of. I just know that when I would look at the news in the morning I got more views of traffic in that area then I did of the horrors that occured that morning. I just find it hard to believe that I could see what the traffic was like on 395 that morning but the only view I could get from what happened was that quick flash from about 10 miles away ? Seriously, this isn't the '60's when you could tell someone that a magic bullet did all the work. I'm a conspiracy theorist anyway so naturally I was skeptical about somethings after getting through the initial shock.

Re: Loose Change
 

After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country.
If you think about everything after the video, it makes you feel like the Gov. thinks you're stupid enough to just tell you anything and that common sense and the laws of physics and science should be ignored.

Re: Loose Change
 

Can someone please fill us in on the points of this youtube video. I for one don't have the hour to watch the video, but I would like to know the basic points.

Re: Loose Change
 

Basically, it breaks down events before, during, and after 9-11. It shows how what the gov says what happened PHYSICALLY could not have taken place. It gives proff as to how the entire thing was a staged event to gain control over the American people and how 9-11 was used to cover up MASSIVE Wall Street corruption and also used to take the gold that was stored in a cache in the basement of WTC.

An hour is a long time but, like I said, you almost OWE it to yourself to watch it.

Re: Loose Change
 

If people buy that crap then they probably deserve to be duped. I don't know, maybe it's because members of my family were very closely tied to the events of 9/11 that I find it offensive that there are those that want to belittle all the efforts to recover from that by accusing many of those same people with plotting the whole thing through a conspiracy.

Even more so, I think it's regrettable, to say the least, that the direct victims have to suffer the indignity of being part of these ridiculous claims.

Anyhow, here you are jsarno:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video]Loose Change (video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url])

And there is also this:

[url=http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/]Screw Loose Change[/url]

Re: Loose Change
 

You're an idiot if you believe this propaganda. No other way to say it.

Here's a few facts and refutations of this piece of trash film and the rest of the loony dreams. Then come back to reality.

I guess Spain, France, England and the rest of the world are all faking their terrorist attacks too? If the Bush administration took the Towers down, then I also guess that Clinton should have hired better bombers in 1993 since the government is obviously trying to kill us.

[url=http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html]Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics[/url]

[URL="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102"]http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102[/URL]

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Buster;422688]You're an idiot if you believe this propaganda. No other way to say it.

Here's a few facts and refutations of this piece of trash film and the rest of the loony dreams. Then come back to reality.

I guess Spain, France, England and the rest of the world are all faking their terrorist attacks too? If the Bush administration took the Towers down, then I also guess that Clinton should have hired better bombers in 1993 since the government is obviously trying to kill us.

[URL="http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html"]Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics[/URL]

[url=http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102]Loose Change - JREF Forum[/url][/quote]

Did you even watch it? How can you refute blatant scientifical evidence that most of this crap COULDNT have physically happened. 120 tons of stell melting at 2000F because of burninf jet fuel? Wtf ever....did u watch the towers come down? Tell me there weren't explosives in that building and I may call you crazy. Even the firefighters who were there agree.....

If you go around just believing exactly what they tell you, then you've become what they want; a sheep. A dumb animal who doesn't ask questions. Common sense can guide you through a lot of the BS.....

Re: Loose Change
 

A little fairy came to me and told me that George Bush is Elvis and Barak Obama is Christopher Columbus...pass it on.

Re: Loose Change
 

(From the Wikipedia article)

One of the many aspects focused on by these critiques is the collapse of the World Trade Center analysis by Loose Change. The comparison to other notable high-rise fires which did not collapse ignores differences in building design, significant WTC structural damage and compromised fireproofing;[48] as most steel loses over half its strength at 600°C (1112°F).[49] Internet Detectives also found firefighters during those fires were pulled back for fear of collapse and that Madrid's Windsor Building comparison does not mention its steel supported perimeter floors collapsed during the fire. Kevin Ryan from Underwriters Laboratories (UL) was actually employed in a water testing subsidiary,[21] UL does not certify structural steel,[21] and ASTM E119 certification is not meant to predict performance in real uncontrolled fires.[49] UL found no evidence of any firm conducting tests on WTC materials in the past.[49] Another expert quoted, Van Romero, has clarified that he was misquoted by the Albuquerque Journal and he had said it "looked like" explosives took down the WTC. When the misquote was printed he felt like his "scientific reputation was on the line."[49]

And there is this:

[url=http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4085&comments=all]World Trade Center 7: The Lies Come Crashing Down[/url]

"No evidence of any explosives were ever found, but the conspiracy theory states that this is because the government took away all the debris before it could be independently tested. Since it's normal for debris to be removed following any such destruction, this particular piece of information is too ambiguous to be given serious weight as proof of a conspiracy."

"None of the videos of Building 7's collapse show any minor explosions. They simply show the top of the building begin to gracefully sag, as if it's made of clay, and then the whole thing drops. So while the manner of collapse may look superficially similar to a controlled demolition at first glance, a more careful examination shows critically important (and non-ambiguous) differences."

"Could a building with such little apparent external damage collapse like this? The photos and videos on the conspiracy theory web sites are from other angles, and show only relatively minor, superficial damage to the building; and even the NIST has said the fire alone would probably would not have destroyed the building. But, let's not forget that Building 7 did have damage: Severe damage, a deep gouge cutting a quarter of the way through the building, ten floors high. Yet even if there was such extensive damage, argue the conspiracy theorists, that fact alone would invalidate the government report. Also from WTC7.net:

"The alleged damage was asymmetric, confined to the tower's south side, and any weakening of the steelwork from fire exposure would also be asymmetric. Thus, even if the damage were sufficient to cause the whole building to collapse, it would have fallen over asymmetrically — toward the south."

This claim forgets that nobody has said the damage alone was responsible for the collapse. According to the NIST report, the initial loss of the columns served only to transfer the building load to the remaining columns, thus exceeding their load bearing capacities, which then gave way after being adequately softened by the fire. In such a condition, the building would have insufficient support throughout. The east side, already sagging, dropped first and pulled the rest of the building down in a slightly diagonal collapse. The conspiracy theorists are correct in that the fall was not entirely symmetric, as it strayed enough to do the aforementioned damage to the Verizon and Manhattan Community College buildings. The conspiracy theorists have hardly proven that explosives are the only possible explanation for the collapse."

And I'll repost this again:

[url=http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4]Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics[/url]

And there's this:

[url=http://www.geocities.com/factsnotfantasy/ExplosivesDebunked.html]9/11 Controlled Demolition Theory Debunked[/url]

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;422696]A little fairy came to me and told me that George Bush is Elvis and Barak Obama is Christopher Columbus...pass it on.[/QUOTE]

George W. or George HW? I want answers you damn conspiracy theorist!!!

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;422696]A little fairy came to me and told me that George Bush is Elvis and Barak Obama is Christopher Columbus...pass it on.[/quote]

I also heard that Hillary is just two midgets in a Clinton suit.

True stuff.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422690]Did you even watch it? How can you refute blatant scientifical evidence that most of this crap COULDNT have physically happened. 120 tons of stell melting at 2000F because of burninf jet fuel? Wtf ever....did u watch the towers come down? Tell me there weren't explosives in that building and I may call you crazy. Even the firefighters who were there agree.....

If you go around just believing exactly what they tell you, then you've become what they want; a sheep. A dumb animal who doesn't ask questions. Common sense can guide you through a lot of the BS.....[/QUOTE]

And yet you seem to believe the rantings of three college kids who were admittedly writing a piece of fiction, then passing it off as documentary.

By the way - "Scientifical"? Brilliant.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee;422734]And yet you seem to believe the rantings of three college kids who were admittedly writing a piece of fiction, then passing it off as documentary.

By the way - "Scientifical"? Brilliant.[/QUOTE]

I think the rest of us just aren't smoking enough rocks, or is it smoke rocks enough?

Re: Loose Change
 

I dunno, I don't smoke any rocks and, somehow, being scientifical appeals to me.

"It's like actual like actual logic and evidence but it's not. It's scientifical."

"Wow - Danny sure took a scientifical approach to hiring a new coach"

"I'd explain it to you, but then I'd have to get scientifical on your ass"

"You'd have to be obtuse not to see that it's purely scientifical"

Re: Loose Change
 

Wow.....you guys must be cool. Let's rag the guy who watched a video, thought it had some truth to it, and typed an "al" on the end of scientific. Man, you guys must be the coolest ever!

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;422737]I dunno, I don't smoke any rocks and, somehow, being scientifical appeals to me.

"[B]It's like actual like actual logic[/B] and evidence but it's not. It's scientifical."

"Wow - Danny sure took a scientifical approach to hiring a new coach"

"I'd explain it to you, but then I'd have to get scientifical on your ass"

"You'd have to be obtuse not to see that it's purely scientifical"[/quote]

While people are speaking of grammatical errors.....

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422742]While people are speaking of grammatical errors.....[/QUOTE]

JoeRedskin did that on purpose. He doesn't make mistakes

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;422743]JoeRedskin did that on purpose. He doesn't make mistakes[/quote]

Obv....lol

Re: Loose Change
 

I'm not gonna go off on a tangent about the govt being behind 9-11, but I've been appalled that GW did not take any responsibility for the lax security... and then that they had the audacity to use it as a scare tactic for their next election... as if we would only be safe if he were re-elected (even though it happened the first time under his watch). Using the terror for his own political gain sickened me to my core.

Also, United 93... I have friends who are close to the situation that lead me to believe that it was in fact shot down. I've seen the movie and it is a romantic story of heroism that I really want to believe and don't want to take anything at all away from it, but at one point Rumsfeld mentioned it inadvertently in a presser: (I understand the context... im not a moron. just saying the choice of words was peculiar)

[yt]x6Xoxaf1Al0[/yt]

I know the 911 commission "debunked" that theory a year later with NORAD tapes, and other evidence, but I still wonder if we had shot it down how exactly it would have been handled...

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=canthetuna;422751]I'm not gonna go off on a tangent about the govt being behind 9-11, but I've been appalled that GW did not take any responsibility for the lax security... and then that they had the audacity to use it as a scare tactic for their next election... as if we would only be safe if he were re-elected (even though it happened the first time under his watch). Using the terror for his own political gain sickened me to my core.

Also, United 93... I have friends who are close to the situation that lead me to believe that it was in fact shot down. I've seen the movie and it is a romantic story of heroism that I really want to believe and don't want to take anything at all away from it, but at one point Rumsfeld mentioned it inadvertently in a presser: (I understand the context... im not a moron. just saying the choice of words was peculiar)

[yt]x6Xoxaf1Al0[/yt]

I know the 911 commission "debunked" that theory a year later with NORAD tapes, and other evidence, but I still wonder if we had shot it down how exactly it would have been handled...[/quote]

See? At least you can be civil and question what was said, most others just question the guy that brought it up. Lol

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;422679]After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country.
If you think about everything after the video, it makes you feel like the Gov. thinks you're stupid enough to just tell you anything and that common sense and the laws of physics and science should be ignored.[/quote]

You're a friggin moron dude.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;422757]You're a friggin moron dude.[/QUOTE]

You're a mindless sheep! Baaaaaaa!!!!!

:)

Re: Loose Change
 

Hey hey - stop raggin on the guy who watched the video.

Let's just sit around be the coolestical we can be.

Re: Loose Change
 

Tough crowd :)

Re: Loose Change
 

Sorry - but the conspiracy theorists can never be dissuaded or disproven b/c any rational evidence is just considered part of the conspiracy. I am tired of being told I am just not as smart as some moron who's convinced that certain scientifical evidence is gospel. I just don't have the time or inclination to try and disprove every harebrained grassy knoll theory out there.

But - just so you'll feel out home: It's all true. They really are out to get you. And they know where you are, what you do and who you called last night.

BTW - Smootsmack is right. I meant to do that, I never make mistakes and I am part of the conspiracy. (Ooops. Shouldn't have told you that part - Now I'll have to kill you all, delete everyone's memory, modify tax returns, change archival records, ... sigh. It's just so damn hard to run a conspiracy all by yourself).

Re: Loose Change
 

sensing a lot of wadded panties....

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;422767]sensing a lot of wadded panties....[/QUOTE]

Well, no and yes.

No - 'cause this is just another insane conspiracy theory not worth the words I'm typing.

Yes - 'cause real enemies did these things and would do them again if given the opportunity. The conspiracy theorists trivialize the hatred these people have for us and for our way of life and implicitly ridicule those who fight this real threat to our safety and the safety of our loved ones. So yes, it pisses me off when people are so ready to believe that [I]we[/I] are the evil ones.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=canthetuna;422767]sensing a lot of wadded panties....[/quote]

It's that time of the month.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;422776]It's that time of the month.[/quote]

Obv....these fools are bitching at me like it makes them cool. And F you Schneed. I'm a moron? Eat me. You guys are a F-ing joke.....

Re: Loose Change
 

I just can't believe this skeptic stuff as much as I'd like to, my folks actually saw the plane fly into the Pentagon.

Scientific evidence can't explain that.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;422764]Sorry - but the conspiracy theorists can never be dissuaded or disproven b/c any rational evidence is just considered part of the conspiracy. I am tired of being told I am just not as smart as some moron who's convinced that certain scientifical evidence is gospel. I just don't have the time or inclination to try and disprove every harebrained grassy knoll theory out there.

[B]But - just so you'll feel out home: It's all true. They really are out to get you. And they know where you are, what you do and who you called last night.[/B]

BTW - Smootsmack is right. I meant to do that, I never make mistakes and I am part of the conspiracy. (Ooops. Shouldn't have told you that part - Now I'll have to kill you all, delete everyone's memory, modify tax returns, change archival records, ... sigh. It's just so damn hard to run a conspiracy all by yourself).[/quote]
It's those damn Masons, I tell you. Beware...

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422777]Obv....these fools are bitching at me like it makes them cool. And F you Schneed. I'm a moron? Eat me. You guys are a F-ing joke.....[/QUOTE]

Hey, they don't need to bitch at you to make themselves cool. They're already cool

Seriously though, we're doing you a favor. If we don't knock some sense into you who will?

Ok, really seriously, I guess we've made our point this "documentary" is hardly scientific proof, and there is plenty to refute it. To watch only this and use it as your basis of proof is pretty ignorant. If that's what you choose to do, your call.

Re: Loose Change
 

This is crazy.

If you think about something long enough, you can convince yourself of anything.

How do you know you just read this post? How do you know gubment suits didn't just come in, use the flashy thingy, and then reprogram your mind to think you just read it?

I find it hilarious that people think the government can be so stupid on one hand, and then turn around and accuse the government of grandiose schemes such as this that would take an enormous amount of scheming and secrecy to pull off. You can't have it both ways. ;)

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;422757]You're a friggin moron dude.[/QUOTE]

I concur. The amount of time and effort into responding to this crap makes me die a little. It really isn't worth it.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Lady Brave;422781]It's those damn Masons, I tell you. Beware...[/QUOTE]

No it's the stonecutters.

Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!

Re: Loose Change
 

I really don't mean to be insulting, but this reminds me of a south park episode. Cartman talked about a conspiracy theory, and Kyle and Stan thought he was a retard. Cartman said 25% of people think there was a conspiracy, and kyle said, "well let's take a sample poll right now, there are 4 of us, and you're a retard." LOL.

I'm trying not to be rude, but I will say this one last thing, anyone that beleives that it was a conspiracy is spitting in the face of all those that lost their lives, ESPECIALLY the rescue workers.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;422805]I really don't mean to be insulting, but this reminds me of a south park episode. Cartman talked about a conspiracy theory, and Kyle and Stan thought he was a retard. Cartman said 25% of people think there was a conspiracy, and kyle said, "well let's take a sample poll right now, there are 4 of us, and you're a retard." LOL.

I'm trying not to be rude, but I will say this one last thing, anyone that beleives that it was a conspiracy is spitting in the face of all those that lost their lives, ESPECIALLY the rescue workers.[/QUOTE]

Definitely agree about the second part

As of the first part, funny you should mention that I was actually looking for a YouTube clip of that just now

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;422805] I will say this one last thing, anyone that beleives that it was a conspiracy is spitting in the face of all those that lost their lives, ESPECIALLY the rescue workers.[/quote]


Why? I don't even think it was a conspiracy or anything, but I'm curious about the conviction to condemn those who question things...

It may be my wiring but I fail to see a logical connection between questioning the story and spitting in the face of the victims.

Maybe I find it hard to swallow because of all of the "If you don't support the war you don't support the troops" propaganda bs that is spread. It seems like it comes from that same mentality and that bothers me...


Not trying to be an asshole, just asking for clarification... from anyone who has that view...

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;422816]Why? I don't even think it was a conspiracy or anything, but I'm curious about the conviction to condemn those who question things...

It may be my wiring but I fail to see a logical connection between questioning the story and spitting in the face of the victims.

Maybe I find it hard to swallow because of all of the "If you don't support the war you don't support the troops" propaganda bs that is spread. It seems like it comes from that same mentality and that bothers me...

Not trying to be an asshole, just asking for clarification... from anyone who has that view...[/QUOTE]

Like just about everything else, skepticism is good in moderate doses. At a certain point, however, skepticism turns into paranoid lunacy.