Portis restructures (Skins about $5M under the cap)
 

Sounds like we're gearing up to make a move or two

[QUOTE][url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Also, in other RB-related moves, the Skins entered today $4.9 million under the cap, sources said, but that does not include the Clinton Portis renegotiation, which is complete and will put the Skins [B]about $8 million under the cap[/B] once official and entered in the league files.[/QUOTE]

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Very nice...

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

How much money needs to be set aside simply for the draft picks? And what about re-signing guys like Caldwell, maybe Rock?

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;428806]Sounds like we're gearing up to make a move or two[/quote]

Anybody have any figures on what kind of cap space is necessary to sign up to 6 draft picks? Obviously best case scenario would be all of our picks make the 53 man, but more realistically it will be 4 or 5. I just wonder what kind of cap room will be necessary for picks coming from our spot in the draft order....

Edit: I see SS beat me to the question as I was typing, but you get the idea

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;428810]How much money needs to be set aside simply for the draft picks? And what about re-signing guys like Caldwell, maybe Rock?[/quote]

To that point. With all the money being thrown around in the FA market, how come they are reluctant to give Cartwright $2M in guarantees? Obviously I don't know what the precise demands are, but $2M in guarantees (the number I'd heard) sounds like an exceedingly modest sum.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;428810]How much money needs to be set aside simply for the draft picks? And what about re-signing guys like Caldwell, maybe Rock?[/QUOTE]

For draft picks I think we can estimate about 3.5 million. I can't find the official numbers for this year(maybe they aren't out) but last year at 21 the Giants had $3.87 to spend on 8 players while the Saints had $3.371 on 7 players at 20. Accounting for cap inflation and needing money for only 6 then 3.5 has to be tops.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;428816]To that point. With all the money being thrown around in the FA market, how come they are reluctant to give Cartwright $2M in guarantees? Obviously I don't know what the precise demands are, but $2M in guarantees (the number I'd heard) sounds like an exceedingly modest sum.[/QUOTE]

Because we can sign a nobody to almost as good a job with NO guarantees.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=FRPLG;428818]For draft picks I think we can estimate about 3.5 million. I can't find the official numbers for this year(maybe they aren't out) but last year at 21 the Giants had $3.87 to spend on 8 players while the Saints had $3.371 on 7 players at 20. Accounting for cap inflation and needing money for only 6 then 3.5 has to be tops.[/quote]

Nice. Thanks for those numbers.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=FRPLG;428820]Because we can sign a nobody to almost as good a job with NO guarantees.[/quote]

I disagree. Rock is a return yardage stud and a locker room favorite. Despite not being a regular starter, he is a team leader and career-long Redskin. I think he brings intangibles that are very important to the team. $2M in guarantees isn't unreasonable at all for Rock IMO. Especially if we can give him a smaller base salary this year to still leave room for our draft picks and maybe an additional WR.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;428826]I disagree. Rock is a return yardage stud and a locker room favorite. Despite not being a regular starter, he is a team leader and career-long Redskin. I think he brings intangibles that are very important to the team. $2M in guarantees isn't unreasonable at all for Rock IMO. Especially if we can give him a smaller base salary this year to still leave room for our draft picks and maybe an additional WR.[/QUOTE]

I hate to say this though, but what will most likely happen is that Rock will look around, prob won't get what he is looking for, and will come back for whatever money the Skins give him. I hope is a bit more though, he is very good at kick returns, and a good character guy to have.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

good..now thats a team player.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;428826]I disagree. Rock is a return yardage stud and a locker room favorite. Despite not being a regular starter, he is a team leader and career-long Redskin. I think he brings intangibles that are very important to the team. $2M in guarantees isn't unreasonable at all for Rock IMO. Especially if we can give him a smaller base salary this year to still leave room for our draft picks and maybe an additional WR.[/QUOTE]

I think this locker-room leader stuff is largely crap. We have plenty of "leaders" and I think paying a little more than a guy is worth for his on the field value simply to keep one is dubious. I worry about paying our locker-room leaders who actually contribute something valuable on the field. And I would argue his return abilities are not irreplaceable by any stretch.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=FRPLG;428839]I think this locker-room leader stuff is largely crap. We have plenty of "leaders" and I think paying a little more than a guy is worth for his on the field value simply to keep one is dubious. I worry about paying our locker-room leaders who actually contribute something valuable on the field. And I would argue his return abilities are not irreplaceable by any stretch.[/quote]I agree on the leaders part, but Rock's on field performance is worth more than 2 mil in guarentees.

Not a whole lot more, but 2 million guarenteed over say 3 years would be well below market value for Rock.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

The guy consistenly brought the ball out to the 30-40 yd line in kickoffs...I mean he's no Devin Hester, but we an improve offense, this would be huge.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;428842]The guy consistenly brought the ball out to the 30-40 yd line in kickoffs...I mean he's no Devin Hester, but we an improve offense, this would be huge.[/quote]

Good point, I'd say Rock is comprable to a poor mans Brian Mitchell. Lacks elite speed to break away on kick returns unlike Hester, but is more then willing to lay the hammer on opponents that try to take him down. Hence the name Rock.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;428841]I agree on the leaders part, but Rock's on field performance is worth more than 2 mil in guarentees.

Not a whole lot more, but 2 million guarenteed over say 3 years would be well below market value for Rock.[/QUOTE]

Maybe but I am not convinced market value is the correct value for his production. I really do think he could be replaced on kick returns and we'd probably see very little if any difference. He just isn't great. He certainly isn't bad but nothing about his performance has ever led me to believe he does things that aren't rather easily replaced. I tend to think his returns are more a function of solid teams play rather than his ability in general.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

I should note that we don't technically have $4.9 million in cap space right now as JLC is suggesting. The $4.9 he's quoting assumes that the savings for Brandon Lloyd has already cleared from the books. This is not the case; savings from him don't clear the books until June 1.

We technically have $2.35 million in cap space right now. A Portis restructure will save at least $3.6 million, bringing us to $5.95 million in room.

Then once Lloyd clears the books on June 1, we'll have $8.35 million in room. So JLC's numbers are on, but his timing is just a little off, that's all.

Our rookie pool will take up no more than $4 million, and will probably be closer to $3.5 as FRPLG noted. The 'Skins are clearly leaving space to re-sign Frost, Fabini (or a guy like him), and Cartwright. On top of those moves, they would still have space for a Bryant Johnson or DJ Hackett.

And while it would be tight, they could forego a Johnson/Hackett move, trade a pick away to reduce the rookie pool, and acquire Chad Johnson. It would be tight, but they could fit that in. Moot point though if the Bengals insist on keeping him.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=FRPLG;428844]Maybe but I am not convinced market value is the correct value for his production. I really do think he could be replaced on kick returns and we'd probably see very little if any difference. He just isn't great. He certainly isn't bad but nothing about his performance has ever led me to believe he does things that aren't rather easily replaced. I tend to think his returns are more a function of solid teams play rather than his ability in general.[/quote]

I tend to agree... I think Betts would be just as effective on kick returns if not more.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;428873]I tend to agree... I think Betts would be just as effective on kick returns if not more.[/quote]

But that 3rd RB, if you let Cartwright go, has to be someone who's excellent on kickoff and punt coverage. Because Rock is. If you let him walk and don't replace him with as good a coverage guy (Marcus Mason is not an answer there) then our kick coverage teams take a hit.

I say throw the guy a bone, he deserves a chunk of change.

He's not going to get the $2 million guaranteed, or whatever it is he wants, on the open market. We can let him sit out there for a bit and then give him $1 million guaranteed and bring back one of our best all-around special teamers.

Betts was good as a kick returner, but if you can have your 3rd RB doing that task just as effectively, it makes you deeper because it keeps your #2 back fresher and healthier. And you need to be deep at RB. Look at the Pack and the Giants last year. Ahmad Bradshaw?

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Don't get me wrong I'd rather not see Betts back there, he's more valuable to us as the #2 RB. I would like to see Rock back at the right price.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Hmm...someone should start a thread about Rock Cartwright. I haven't seen one of those yet.

Thanks, as always, for the numbers, guys.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

I'd love to see Rock back at the right price as well. Also like to see us re-sign everyone else the staff wants to bring back, though I'm very surprised they want Fabini back.

My opinion & hope on the resturctures is that the intent is to shore up the cap to be in position to [B]re-sign JC[/B]!

I hope he plays well enough that by mid season they start talking to his agent.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;428876]But that 3rd RB, if you let Cartwright go, has to be someone who's excellent on kickoff and punt coverage. Because Rock is. If you let him walk and don't replace him with as good a coverage guy (Marcus Mason is not an answer there) then our kick coverage teams take a hit.

I say throw the guy a bone, he deserves a chunk of change.

He's not going to get the $2 million guaranteed, or whatever it is he wants, on the open market. We can let him sit out there for a bit and then give him $1 million guaranteed and bring back one of our best all-around special teamers.

Betts was good as a kick returner, but if you can have your 3rd RB doing that task just as effectively, it makes you deeper because it keeps your #2 back fresher and healthier. And you need to be deep at RB. Look at the Pack and the Giants last year. Ahmad Bradshaw?[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree actually I am just trying to bring some perspective to those who see way more than what is really there when it comes to Rock.

I do:

- Like his leadership and it isn't completely worthless but it isn't s main decision maker for me
- Think his overall contribution on Teams is valuable
- Think he is a hard worker

but I don't think he is a fantastic returner or is irreplaceable and the money he wants is simply just too much for what he gives us.

If we can get him for more like what Schneed has said then I am down with that. He is worth more than a random guy with no ties to the team who can do the same job so give him a little bit of a premium but let's not even go close to paying him anything that takes more than minimal cap space.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Well, Fabini did a pretty good job last year fillling in and he would definitely be quality depth for us. I'm surprised Miami hasn't snatched him up yet. Hopefully that means we still have a good shot.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;428881]I'd love to see Rock back at the right price as well. Also like to see us re-sign everyone else the staff wants to bring back, though I'm very surprised they want Fabini back.

My opinion & hope on the resturctures is that the intent is to shore up the cap to be in position to [B]re-sign JC[/B]!

I hope he plays well enough that by mid season they start talking to his agent.[/QUOTE]

Fabini really played pretty decently as the season went on. He was out of position so any struggles early on were understandable. I think he suffered from bad pub early on because he didn't take to guard as quickly as coaches thought he could with his experience but in the end he really did an adequate job which is all you can ask from your depth guys. Someone like Fabini is just so valuable because he can swing and play tackle or guard for us. You just HAVE to have depth o-linemen who can play multiple positions nowadays. It is what I think gives Wade a problem coming into the season. He has shown he can't play guard effectively and his tackle play last year wasn't near what they thought he could do. Plus Heyer was just about as good if not better and is younger and cheaper.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

I thought Rock was looking more for a team that would give him the chance to play more RB than he will get here as a Redskin. The times he has had a chance here he has done a pretty good job but its been some time sense he has had any chances. I think after he test the market and finds that no other team is going to give him a chance then he will sign with the Skins. I don't see him signing with another team to just return kicks unless they offer him such big $ for what he does.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=FRPLG;428883]I tend to agree actually I am just trying to bring some perspective to those who see way more than what is really there when it comes to Rock.

I do:

- Like his leadership and it isn't completely worthless but it isn't s main decision maker for me
- Think his overall contribution on Teams is valuable
- Think he is a hard worker

but I don't think he is a fantastic returner or is irreplaceable and the money he wants is simply just too much for what he gives us.

If we can get him for more like what Schneed has said then I am down with that. He is worth more than a random guy with no ties to the team who can do the same job so give him a little bit of a premium but let's not even go close to paying him anything that takes more than minimal cap space.[/quote]

What money does he want exactly? Does anyone have a good handle on that? Is he talking about $2M guaranteed for next season or over the life of a 3 or 4 year contract? If he was $6-8M guaranteed over the life of the deal I could see where that is way overpriced, but if he just wants a $2M signing bonus that seems quite reasonable. Amortized over a 4 year deal you're talking about $500K/year. Doesn't seem like that all that much to ask for, but I guess if the market dictates less than the Skins should do what is in their interest.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

I think he's looking for about $2M per season

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;428826]I disagree. Rock is a return yardage stud and a locker room favorite. Despite not being a regular starter, he is a team leader and career-long Redskin. I think he brings intangibles that are very important to the team. $2M in guarantees isn't unreasonable at all for Rock IMO. Especially if we can give him a smaller base salary this year to still leave room for our draft picks and maybe an additional WR.[/QUOTE]

I agree he's a great player for us on special teams and we need to sign him.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;428877]Don't get me wrong I'd rather not see Betts back there, he's more valuable to us as the #2 RB. I would like to see Rock back at the right price.[/QUOTE]

What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=QBall;428920]What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.[/QUOTE]

Is that an actual question and comment?

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=QBall;428920]What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.[/quote]

Isn't this a thread about the SALARY CAP? You are aware that salaries & the cap "affect the team?"

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=QBall;428920]What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.[/quote]

You're kidding, right?

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=QBall;428920]What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.[/quote]

Dude. What??

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[quote=QBall;428920]What does it matter to you if he makes 1 million or 2? Not like his money will affect the team in any way.[/quote]

Are you new to the NFL??

Mad negative rep points for not knowing what the salary cap is.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;428928]Are you new to the NFL??

Mad negative rep points for not knowing what the salary cap is.[/QUOTE]

Rocks 1 million extra will not affect the Redskins:

1) Signing rookies
2) FA signing
3) Restricted FA signing
4) Extending existing players

We have the money!!!!!!!! I know exactly what the cap is thanks.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;428921]Is that an actual question and comment?[/QUOTE]

Question. In my view he's worth the money, its not that much he's asking for. I've seen in years past what boring bad returns we've had. Rock is great at getting to the 30yd line at minimum each time.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

[QUOTE=QBall;428931]Rocks 1 million extra will not affect the Redskins:

1) Signing rookies
2) FA signing
3) Restricted FA signing
4) Extending existing players

We have the money!!!!!!!! I know exactly what the cap is thanks.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you do know. More negative points coming your way

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Why not just toss in an extra million for Rock? Hey it doesn't really matter anyway.

Re: Portis restructures (Skins about $8M under the cap)
 

Rock is good, but replaceable. He is not Devin Hester.