Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

Curious how you guys feel. Pretty straight forward, should parents that allow their children to get obese be prosecuted? Personally, I think absolutely they should. I see it as child abuse feeding your child McDonalds sometimes up to 4x a day, and never making them go outside and play. Adults are welcome to make their own decisions, but children need to eat better so they don't start having massive health problems, etc young. These parents are shaving years of the lives of their children.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[IMG]http://www.travelburner.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/sc_fat_kid.jpg[/IMG]

If it's a kid with jelly rolls like that yeah, but if it is a slighlty, like 10-15 pound overweight kid, then I don't think it's a huge problem.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

it's not always as cut and dry, but it definitely should be looked upon as a form of neglect and abuse, and investigated by child protective services, with help for the problem offered before punishment is dealt.

So, yes I agree a much bigger deal should be made, but do you cut it off and take a child away from a loving family because the parent doesn't have discipline? And at what point do you enforce the law... there's a lot of gray area there, in which you may do a child more harm than good in punishing the family (and the kid) for the actions of the parents.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

EE21: If the child has some sort of disability / health problem, then there's a different story there. However, just because a parent is loving doesn't mean they're doing the best for that child. In fact I'd argue most of the people that let their children get that big are loving, but they are doing a disservice to their children.

A few lbs overweight, no. I'm talking obese. I was chunky as a kid even though I never ate fast food and I was constantly outside running around being active. I was far from obese though. I don't know what they'd base it off of, maybe BMI, etc. The health-nuts in here could tell you more about measuring obesity than I can.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

Unless a parent is outright beating or sexually abusing a child, the government has no place charging them with criminal offenses because they are not doing a great job.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;439611]Unless a parent is outright beating or sexually abusing a child, the government has no place charging them with criminal offenses because they are not doing a great job.[/QUOTE]

But, and I might be mistaken here, but haven't criminal charges been filed against parents for malnourishing their kids (i.e not giving them enough to eat)? Is this much different, or is it now about how much they are given to eat but given the right things to eat?

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

I am technically obese cause I am more than 20% overweight but I always have been big but I am not unhealthy per se:

I am 311 pounds 6'2" i bench 385 and I run the mile in 7:58 so I guess I am just lucky then.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;439611]Unless a parent is outright beating or sexually abusing a child, the government has no place charging them with criminal offenses because they are not doing a great job.[/quote]

I agree. Social stigma should be enough punishment for both parents and the kids. Some figure it out later on in life, others unfortunately do not. I think that since the "abuse" is not intentional or thought to be some form of severe punishment then our government has no place to enforce their (our?)physical standards upon foolish parents.

If anything pediatricians should be able to effectively encourage their parents to alter the kids diet and physical activity. Setting up some type of voluntary after school exercise camp may provide some help. I say voluntary because there's no way in Hades that public education can afford to put funds into something like that.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;439613]But, and I might be mistaken here, but haven't criminal charges been filed against parents for malnourishing their kids (i.e not giving them enough to eat)? Is this much different, or is it now about how much they are given to eat but given the right things to eat?[/QUOTE]

Great point. My understanding is that such charges are typically filed when the child is on death's door. Whereas a child can die within a matter of weeks from severe malnutrition, kids are not likely to die within a matter of weeks from being overfed. Moreover, whereas the failure to adequately feed a child is usually a sign of serious neglect, overfeeding a child is typically just a sign of a lack of education. It's one thing to punish people for seriously neglecting their kids, it's quite another IMO to punish them for being ignorant.

Even assuming legislatures started enacting such legislation, how would it be enforced? Do you just start pulling heavy kids off the street and locking up their parents? How would authorities determine who is to blame for the overfeeding? Do they lock up both parents even though only one controls the child's diet? Do they lock up the parents when the child's obesity is due to the kind of food that the child is buying or getting from other places (friends' houses)?

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;439616]I am technically obese cause I am more than 20% overweight but I always have been big but I am not unhealthy per se:

I am not 311 pounds 6'2" i bench 385 and I run the mile in 7:58 so I guess I am just lucky then.[/QUOTE]

I am 6'2 185 pounds, and bench 180. If I way that much does it mean I'm overweight.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;439618]
Even assuming legislatures started enacting such legislation, how would it be enforced? Do you just start pulling heavy kids off the street and locking up their parents? How would authorities determine who is to blame for the overfeeding? Do they lock up both parents even though only one controls the child's diet? Do they lock up the parents when the child's obesity is due to the kind of food that the child is buying or getting from other places (friends' houses)?[/quote]

that was my question. I don't think kids should be removed from homes (except in extreme cases) or that the parents should face jail time, but just as in homes where neglect is suspected, social services should be called in to monitor and attempt to help the situation while the threat of re-housing a child looms as motivation. My mother in law was a CASA for a while and, while I agree obesity is a big american problem, there are far worse things going on in homes than over eating that take up a lot of their time. Many times courts would allow children to stay in homes with open heavy drug use, and repeat offenders, even though she had lined up foster homes that were apparently more than capable and willing to offer the children a better life.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

I know a little girl who is extremely obese. Her mom is single and gives the girl food and tv to get her out of her hair. This situation screams for some attention from a governing body, because the girl is a beautiful smart little girl who will never know what it's like to live a normal life. She is treated poorly by her peers and has no self esteem, which only aids to her overeating... and she's 13 years old at 280 lbs. She's been obese her entire life. In this case I may indeed condone the relocation (or legitimate threat thereof) for the betterment of the child.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

Quake you run a 8 min mile while over 300lbs? I am sure you are in shape, but I am still in disbelief. It just doesn't physically possible to me.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=hooskins;439692]Quake you run a 8 min mile while over 300lbs? I am sure you are in shape, but I am still in disbelief. It just doesn't physically possible to me.[/quote]

He could be all muscle? Nah, I got to go with you and call b.s.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

I think having ugly children should be a crime. Ugly is worse than fat. You can lose wieght. Ugly is forever and always.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=70Chip;439700]I think having ugly children should be a crime. Ugly is worse than fat. You can lose wieght. [B]Ugly is forever and always.[/B][/quote]

That's what plastic surgery is for. :D

But seriously, I also heard some chick say that ugly people should be killed and harvested for their organs. :doh:

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

The question is what would you do with these kids? Our social services are already strained to the limit and beyond.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

Wow, this is calling for some serious government intervention into our lives.

First, there can be a ton of reasons why a kid would be overweight. It could flat out be an unhealthy lifestyle, like you said. But there are a myriad of medical reasons for obesity, it could also be a thyroid problem, a genetic condition, a psychological problem, etc. And a bigger concern: a financial problem. Healthy food is way more expensive than stuff you can get from McDonalds. And if you don't have the cash to buy healthy food, chances are you're more likely to live in an area where it's not safe to have your kids playing outside and getting exercise.

Absent a medical problem, or genetic predisposition, or financial constraints, and you still are feeding your child junk with no exercise, then I can see your point. But way too many kids have extenuating circumstances. The notion that you could possibly enforce a law like this shows a complete lack of understanding of the social issues at play when it comes to childhood obesity.

Not to mention the government should not be telling us how to raise our kids (personal opinion).

Horrible idea.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=saden1;439695]He could be all muscle? Nah, I got to go with you and call b.s.[/quote]

I now picture Quake as a more powerful-looking Mike Sellers.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;439701]That's what plastic surgery is for. :D

But seriously, I also heard some chick say that ugly people should be killed and harvested for their organs. :doh:[/quote]

Is it bad that I laughed at that?

A crime? No chance, because it simply couldn't be enforced.

Even if there was a binary test that could conclusively determine if a child is obese due to the parents' negligence, I'd still be wary. What is the penalty? Jail the parents and put the kids into foster care?

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;439764]What is the penalty? Jail the parents and put the kids into foster care?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. What's the point of jailing the parents? What if the imprisonment causes them to lose their jobs, be less marketable to prospective employers, etc.? Surely those unintended collateral effects will not have a good impact on the kids. Taken to an extreme, removing the children from parents' custody likely wouldn't do the kids much good.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

To answer the question of the thread, no, it shouldn't be a crime. But it's a shame to see how fat American's have become. I spent most of the last 9 years in the south (Gainesville, Fl), and it's even worse down there because of all the sweet tea and fried crap.

I know a lot of people have disorders, disabilities, or genetic predispositions that cause them to be overweight or obese, and for those people I feel sorry.

But a lot of America's weight problem is just laziness. It's much easier to swing through the McDonald's drive through than it is to go to the grocery store, buy food, and make yourself a sensible meal. My two best friends struggle with weight issues, and they often use the excuse of "it's so cheap to hit up a fast food joint," or "it's just easier to eat out." But I call BS. If you go the grocery store once a week, it's much easier to buy healthy food, and your average cost per meal will go WAY down. Sure it may take you an hour or two on Saturday or Sunday, but then you can prepare every meal at home throughout the week and eat much healthier. But you have to want to.

Children pattern themselves after their parents. If mom and dad are fat and lazy, so often the children are too. It's starts with the 'rents. Step it up.

My girlfriend is Operations Manager and a personal trainer at Bethesda Sport & Health here in the DC area, and she has been helping my friends plan smart meals and workouts. It's much, much easier than people think to eat and live healthy. People just have to want to. Too many Americans just don't care.

And Quake, if you can run a mile in 7:58 then I can eat 10 Big Mac's in 10 minutes. I'm no body builder or tri-athlete, but I spend about 9-12 hours a week in the gym, both lifting and running, and I can barely hit an 8 minute mile. I'm 6'3 220 and only 7% body fat. But hey, if you're for real then maybe should head over to the Swamp and try out for the mighty Gator football team!

I heard a lot of people asking if they are overweight-
Here a few links to Body-Mass Index (BMI) info. The first is a BMI calculator, the second is some Wikipedia info.

[URL="http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm"]Advanced bmi calculator of Body Mass Index[/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index"]Body mass index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

It's pretty cool, but you have to take into account muscle mass, too.

Also, glycemic index (GI) is very important in your diet as well. Eating foods low on the GI help keep you trim. I'm no expert on this, but I've learned a lot from my girlfriend. Just trying to pass along info.

[URL="http://www.glycemicindex.com/"]The Glycemic Index[/URL]

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

So to me the issue is, is eating eating healthy more expensive?

Schneed says yes but GMScud says no. Personally I would've thought it is it is more expensive, but honestly I have no idea.

Does anyone have any links to reports or articles confirming either or?

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=hooskins;439805]So to me the issue is, is eating eating healthy more expensive?

Schneed says yes but GMScud says no. Personally I would've thought it is it is more expensive, but honestly I have no idea.

Does anyone have any links to reports or articles confirming either or?[/quote]

I can only say from experience that eating out every meal is expensive and unhealthy. Going to the grocery store and buying fresh veggies, fruit, and lean meats is much cheaper than going the other route.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=GMScud;439806]I can only say from experience that eating out every meal is expensive and unhealthy. Going to the grocery store and buying fresh veggies, fruit, and lean meats is much cheaper than going the other route.[/quote]

Depends where you're eating out. If you're hitting up a take-out joint and spending $10 every meal, then yeah, you can cook healthy for cheaper. But $10 take-out meals aren't even an option for those with tight cash flows.

If you're going to McDonalds and getting a double cheeseburger, fries, and soda for 99 cents each (dollar menu) like so many poor people do, then you're spending $3 for a meal. If you go to the grocery store, you will be hard-pressed to put together a healthy meal for $3, even if breaking portions down on a per-unit basis.

To me, the definition of "eating healthy" is doing what the FDA food pyramid tells you. 6 servings grains (whole), 3 servings dairy (mostly milk or yogurt, less on the cheese), 4 servings of fruit and veggies (preferably fresh), and 3 servings protein (preferably lean meats), and use fats & sugars sparingly.

So looking at those FDA guidelines, you can eliminate ground beef (unless it's very lean, in which case $$$), fatty steaks, chicken pieces with the skin on, pork ribs (unless they're babyback), whole milk, white bread, white pasta, and white rice. Not to mention sodas, cakes, cookies, crackers, candy, mac & cheese. The food pyramid, if you read it right, effectively eliminates a ton of the inexpensive ingredients available at the grocery store.

Some of the most expensive? Lean beef, fish, skinless chicken breast, lean pork, fresh produce, skim milk (more expensive than whole), fruit juices. Even whole grain breads and cereals are more expensive than their white-flour counterparts.

And the other piece we're not considering, time. For many poor folks, they need to work overtime, and sometimes two jobs, to support the young'ns. That's just to have enough money to house them, clothe them, and feed them SOMETHING. They're not left with scads of time to spend in the kitchen preparing healthy meals.

A single person who makes $40K a year has enough money and all the time they need to cook and eat healthy. But the poor are much worse off. It's not as simple as making blanket statements that everyone can do it. Until you walk a mile in their shoes, you can't tell what it feels like to stroll in after a 16 hour shift and be asked to cook a nutritious meal for less than $3 per person.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

My wife orders our meals ready-to-cook from someplace. They are balanced meals with sides, and it's just about the same cost as going to the store, but infinitely easier. We just dump it in the oven or in a pan, and it cooks. It's actually easier than getting fast food, and it tastes a [b]lot[/b] better.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

Actually, this whole argument is further reason why it's important to stay in school, don't do drugs, don't get pregnant, don't start smoking, graduate, get a good job that pays you well, and marry somebody (and stay married) before having kids.

It puts you in a better position to have the money you need and the spousal support you need to provide kids with even basic nutrition. For some families the constraint is money. For others it's time.

If you get your ass through school, you'll make more money. If you have someone to raise kids with, between the two of you the time can be managed.

Family values. It affects everything, even kids' nutrition.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=hooskins;439805]So to me the issue is, is eating eating healthy more expensive?

Schneed says yes but GMScud says no. Personally I would've thought it is it is more expensive, but honestly I have no idea.

Does anyone have any links to reports or articles confirming either or?[/quote]

Eating healthy definitely adds up but if it really matters to you the cost isn't a major issue. I'd rather spend my money on fresh fruits and veggies than loading up on junk food to save a few bucks.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;439816]Eating healthy definitely adds up but if it really matters to you the cost isn't a major issue. I'd rather spend my money on fresh fruits and veggies than loading up on junk food to save a few bucks.[/quote]

As would I. But we graduated college, and we have jobs, and we own computers. We can hack it.

So for us to make the choice to feed our kids McD's all the time would be disgraceful. But I can't fault the single mom working two jobs for stopping at McDs.

I would, however, ask her how she got herself into the "single mom" mess in the first place.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Schneed10;439818]As would I. But we graduated college, and we have jobs, and we own computers. We can hack it.

So for us to make the choice to feed our kids McD's all the time would be disgraceful. [B]But I can't fault the single mom working two jobs for stopping at McDs.[/B]

I would, however, ask her how she got herself into the "single mom" mess in the first place.[/quote]

True there are reasons for everything.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;439816]Eating healthy definitely adds up but if it really matters to you the cost isn't a major issue. I'd rather spend my money on fresh fruits and veggies than loading up on junk food to save a few bucks.[/quote]

As would I.

But I guess my question was about average cost. I am looking at this from an economic point of view. Ignoring work hours, preparation time, transportation costs, laziness, etc. is it on average cheaper to make your own healthy food?

Obviously all those other things I ignored matter a lot, but we have to first consider the bare costs, and if it is in fact cheaper to eat healthy then we can start looking to reasons like prep time, laziness, etc.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=hooskins;439822]As would I.

But I guess my question was about average cost. I am looking at this from an economic point of view. Ignoring work hours, preparation time, transportation costs, laziness, etc. is it on average cheaper to make your own healthy food?

Obviously all those other things I ignored matter a lot, but we have to first consider the bare costs, and if it is in fact cheaper to eat healthy then we can start looking to reasons like prep time, laziness, etc.[/quote]

It's definitely more expensive to buy healthy foods and prepare meals from scratch vs. buying meals you prepare from a box.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;439832]It's definitely more expensive to buy healthy foods and prepare meals from scratch vs. buying meals you prepare from a box.[/quote]

Cool, that is what I thought but I was unsure because I haven't really ever had to spend for more than myself, and I still have my parents to fall back on.

I was suspicious because as a child I didn't each much that wasn't made at home. I always thought we did that because it was cheaper, but I guess I should be grateful my parents put emphasis on eating healthy food made at home.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

I do all my cooking in a rice cooker. It's easy...and everything the comes out is perfectly cooked/steamed and it tastes delicious.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Schneed10;439716]Wow, this is calling for some serious government intervention into our lives.

First, there can be a ton of reasons why a kid would be overweight. It could flat out be an unhealthy lifestyle, like you said. But there are a myriad of medical reasons for obesity, it could also be a thyroid problem, a genetic condition, a psychological problem, etc. And a bigger concern: a financial problem. Healthy food is way more expensive than stuff you can get from McDonalds. And if you don't have the cash to buy healthy food, chances are you're more likely to live in an area where it's not safe to have your kids playing outside and getting exercise.

Absent a medical problem, or genetic predisposition, or financial constraints, and you still are feeding your child junk with no exercise, then I can see your point. But way too many kids have extenuating circumstances. The notion that you could possibly enforce a law like this shows a complete lack of understanding of the social issues at play when it comes to childhood obesity.

Not to mention the government should not be telling us how to raise our kids (personal opinion).

Horrible idea.[/quote]That is BS that eating healthy is more expensive then eating at McDonalds and is just an excuse for goverment to increase aid and our taxes. Here is my cost to feed a family of four. Whole chicken chopped up $5.00, two cans of green beens $1.50, cut up boiled or baked potato's $2.00, throw in bread $2.00 or fruit of some kind $2.50. Tahts a total of $13.00 which is $3.25 and you cannot eat at Mcdonalds for less than that. I could do this for $10.00 a day but I wanted it to seem closer to real.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Schneed10;439815]Actually, this whole argument is further reason why it's important to stay in school, don't do drugs, don't get pregnant, don't start smoking, graduate, get a good job that pays you well, and marry somebody (and stay married) before having kids.

It puts you in a better position to have the money you need and the spousal support you need to provide kids with even basic nutrition. For some families the constraint is money. For others it's time.

If you get your ass through school, you'll make more money. If you have someone to raise kids with, between the two of you the time can be managed.

Family values. It affects everything, even kids' nutrition.[/quote]
I think I agree more with this statement then anything you have ever said. People don't plain to fail they fail to plain. Sounds stupid but it is the truth.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=firstdown;439844]That is BS that eating healthy is more expensive then eating at McDonalds and is just an excuse for goverment to increase aid and our taxes. Here is my cost to feed a family of four. Whole chicken chopped up $5.00, two cans of green beens $1.50, cut up boiled or baked potato's $2.00, throw in bread $2.00 or fruit of some kind $2.50. Tahts a total of $13.00 which is $3.25 and you cannot eat at Mcdonalds for less than that. I could do this for $10.00 a day but I wanted it to seem closer to real.[/quote]

At McDonald's, you can get a double cheeseburger for 99 cents, an order of fries for 99 cents, and a small soda for 99 cents.

Or instead of the soda, get another double cheeseburger or an ice cream sundae, and then drink water from the tap with your meal. $3 meal.

The McDonalds dollar menu is the modus operandi of tons of poor people in this country, and is the biggest reason why McDonald's came under such harsh criticism for failing to provide healthy alternatives.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=firstdown;439847]I think I agree more with this statement then anything you have ever said. People don't plain to fail they fail to plain. Sounds stupid but it is the truth.[/quote]

Yeah. They fail to plan and then cry out for the government to help them.

I say if you can't plan your own life properly, why should the government plan to help you?

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[QUOTE=EternalEnigma21;439599]it's not always as cut and dry, but it definitely should be looked upon as a form of neglect and abuse, and investigated by child protective services, with help for the problem offered before punishment is dealt.

So, yes I agree a much bigger deal should be made, but do you cut it off and take a child away from a loving family because the parent doesn't have discipline? And at what point do you enforce the law... there's a lot of gray area there, in which you may do a child more harm than good in punishing the family (and the kid) for the actions of the parents.[/QUOTE]


I agree pretty much 100% with this post. There's no way you can just prosecute without investigating the circumstances, and education should always be the first step. But if education is given and the situation continues, then prosecution should absolutely be an option.

Re: Childhood Obesity -- Should it be a crime?
 

[quote=Schneed10;439852]At McDonald's, you can get a double cheeseburger for 99 cents, an order of fries for 99 cents, and a small soda for 99 cents.

Or instead of the soda, get another double cheeseburger or an ice cream sundae, and then drink water from the tap with your meal. $3 meal.

The McDonalds dollar menu is the modus operandi of tons of poor people in this country, and is the biggest reason why McDonald's came under such harsh criticism for failing to provide healthy alternatives.[/quote]

And toss in the convenience of it and you can see why it's such an easy option vs. cooking at home.