Thomas/Jansen article
 

Unlike quarterbacks, running backs and receivers, numbers rarely tell the story for offensive linemen.

But consider these in the case of right guard [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080507/SPORTS01/341830528/1005/SPORTS"]Randy Thomas and right tackle Jon Jansen[/URL] of the Washington Redskins: 32, 37, 30.

The first is their age. The second is the number of games in which Thomas and Jansen didn't line up next to each other in the past four seasons. The last is the number of games in which they did.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

and . . . . . .

are you going to comment or opine about something from the article that you'd like to discuss here or are you just posting the article?

a simple "RANDY THOMAS IS ONE OF THE BEST B-B-Qers IN THE LEAGUE!!! OHHHH YEAHHH!! BELIEVE IT BABY!!!" would do just fine.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

These guys are huge keys to this season. If both of them can stay on the field (along with the other starting OL of course) I really like our chances.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

RT is one of the very best players on our team. Our running game misses him badly whenever he's out. I'm looking forward to having him back, big time. I'm sure Portis is too.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[quote=Mattyk72;447235]These guys are huge keys to this season. If both of them can stay on the field (along with the other starting OL of course) I really like our chances.[/quote]

I agree

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Jansen's injury last year was just freaky bad luck. Age has nothing to do with breaking your leg when a 250 lb linebacker flies into the back of your legs. That would have been a season ending injury for a 22 year old rookie in the same situation. We are due some better luck on the injury front after last year's carnage.

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Our O-line does not get enough credit (of the positive variety). AND, when the starters are....all.......starting, they're damn good. But..thst is the question. Can they stay healthy. COME ON BABY!

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I didn't know Thomas actually partially tore that muscle again when he tried to come back on Week 15. Good thing that wasn't a much more serious tear or I'd be ever so pissed.

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I'm very worried about Jansen. In 06 he was getting pushed around quite a bit and he was healthy. Now he's two years older and coming off a serious injury where he missed a whole season. Heyer had better be ready.

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Yep, basically every Skins fan is praying these guys are healthy (along w/ the other o-lineman for the whole season). I'm not sure that we lose a lot if JJ goes down. He was slow as molasses in pre-season last year and if Heyer has any brains he spent the offseason busting his ass in the gym. But we lose a lot when RT is out of the game. He's the only one that plays w/ a mean streak, and he can pull with the best of them.

Does it sound like Rinehart could compete at RT? I haven't heard much since we drafted him.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;447350]Does it sound like Rinehart could compete at RT? I haven't heard much since we drafted him.[/QUOTE]

The scouting reports I read seemed to indicate that Rinehart may take a year or two to compete for a starting role. That would make sense, given that he is not used to facing quality opponents, let alone NFL Pro Bowl DTs and DEs. I haven't heard much of anything about him since we drafted him though.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;447354]The scouting reports I read seemed to indicate that Rinehart may take a year or two to compete for a starting role. That would make sense, given that he is not used to facing quality opponents, let alone NFL Pro Bowl DTs and DEs. I haven't heard much of anything about him since we drafted him though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's probably to be expected. I think scouting reports also mentioned he would fit better inside at C/G in the NFL. As to him not facing quality opponents I have to agree but I don't know whether you watched video on him - dude mauled most guys he faced. In fact, it seemed like most d-lineman he faced ended up on the ground. So maybe he [I]could[/I] have competed at division 1-A. Not entirely likely I know but maybe there was something else that kept him at the small school.

I know he wasn't a sexy pick for us but I'm just as excited to see this kid develop as Thomas, Davis, or Kelly.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

I'm not worried one bit about Randy if he can stay healthy. This is the guy who Gibbs called "the heart and soul of the Redskins" when he got hurt last year. And like Buges said, he's a "spring chicken." Repeated hamstring/groin/knee issues make a guy fall under the category of injury prone. A broken fibula b/c some guy rolled up on him or a tricep tear doesn't fit that category. He's due for a healthy, beast of a season. And I fully believe that's what we'll get.

Jansen on the other hand concerns me. And not because I question his durability. Aside from the freak injuries in '04 and '07, the guy has only missed one game since high school. That's right, high school. Never missed a start at Michigan. But I do think his talent is declining. If he does stay healthy, he's an average starting tackle in the NFL at this point, IMO.

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this is probably Thomas last season with the skins, if he gets injured again. we need our lineman to be able to play. and it really hurts the whole offensive scheme when one of them go down

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[QUOTE=dmek25;447378]this is probably Thomas last season with the skins, if he gets injured again. we need our lineman to be able to play. and it really hurts the whole offensive scheme when one of them go down[/QUOTE]

thomas aint going anywhere until we have a viable replacement. at the moment we do not. chad rhinehart may become that but i think its more likely that he will succeed pete kendall. if i'm not mistaken, we gave kendall a 2 year contract and so this will be the last year. that's enough time for buges to turn rhinehart into a monster.

this is the last year of (giants' guard)[URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/chrissnee/profile?id=SNE230934"]chris snee's[/URL] contract. maybe we make a play for him next offseason?

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Everybody seems concerned about the decline of JJ. I'm also concerned about Samuels at left tackle. Those two got old really fast. Maybe Bugel has lost a step or two in coaching ability, also.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Bugel worked miracles last year with Heyer and Fabini manning the right side down the stretch. I don't know how one could say he's lost a step or two.

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[quote=SmootSmack;447431]Bugel worked miracles last year with Heyer and Fabini manning the right side down the stretch. I don't know how one could say he's lost a step or two.[/quote]

Yeah I don't know either.

I think our OL "issues" overall have been severely overblown this offseason. With the injuries we had last year it was a miracle that we got the kind of production that we did down the stretch.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[quote=Mattyk72;447432]Yeah I don't know either.

I think our OL "issues" overall have been severely overblown this offseason. With the injuries we had last year it was a miracle that we got the kind of production that we did down the stretch.[/quote]

Maybe it's been overstated, but the lack of depth on the O & D lines is definitely worth noting. I agree about last year, though I would add a caveat; the pass protection was incredible given the right side of the line was total patchwork w/a rook RT & a converted vet tackle playing guard, however our running game suffered greatly. We couldn't consistently run right until late in a game if and when the D was worn down.

What happened last year could just as easily happen this year to 2 different players. I woldn't be surprised if Samuels gets nicked this year as he's been so durable, it's almost simply a law of averages that he'll get hurt in some fashion. Kendall is way old & w/bad knees. I definitely think there's reason to be worried & I wonder if the front office is putting too much pressure on Buges, or has unrealistic expectations about what he can do to get a group of misfits to play as starters if someone goes down.

Let's just hope the O line returns to 06 form when no one was hurt & L. Betts was often untouched until he hit the secondary.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

I don't buy the lack of depth take when it comes to the OL. The line held up pretty damn well considering the injuries last year. While I'm not a huge Heyer guy I think he's more than serviceable and he should continue to improve. Fabini is a valuable guy to have around in reserve, and Rinehart looks like he could be solid even in his rookie year.

I don't think we'll see another season where we lose 2 starters right off the bat. Of course guys are bound to get dinged up and we may even lose one guy for an extended period of time, but I think we have adequate depth to get by.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Samuels has to stay healthy though. If he goes down, we dont have anyone capable of handling LT.

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[quote=GTripp0012;447442]Samuels has to stay healthy though. If he goes down, we dont have anyone capable of handling LT.[/quote]

I agree that he's the guy we can least afford to lose.

If we lost Samuels for an extended period of time I think some people might finally come to realize just how good he is.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Depth aint an issue guy....it was more of an issue last year....when Wade was our all purpose backup...no one expected anything of Heyer.
The truth is Wade aint that great, which is why Heyer got a chance...we got lucky there with a 3rd stringer.

Now we've got Heyer with experience, and Wade and Fabini...who aint that bad...not to mention a solid draft pick.

The only reason Oline depth is a concern is because of 2 things:
Last year we were decimated by injuries.
Our Oline is getting older.

I am far more concerned about our Dline depth since we didn't draft anyone of note.
(imagine if we lost 2 starters there..ie Carter, Daniels)
No comparison...

O line will be fine.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

I think our starting 5 has a few more years left - especially Samuels and Rabach -- maybe not Kendall or Jansen.

However as soon as next season I think we will have 1-3 new starters on the line. Between Rinehart, Alexander, and Heyer, we can fill 1-2 of those spots, but I think we will need to address OL in FA in addition to the draft.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;447440]I don't buy the lack of depth take when it comes to the OL. The line held up pretty damn well considering the injuries last year. While I'm not a huge Heyer guy I think he's more than serviceable and he should continue to improve. Fabini is a valuable guy to have around in reserve, and Rinehart looks like he could be solid even in his rookie year.

I don't think we'll see another season where we lose 2 starters right off the bat. Of course guys are bound to get dinged up and we may even lose one guy for an extended period of time, but I think we have adequate depth to get by.[/QUOTE]

I have been banging the O-line drum for some time now. Even so, I agree that in the short term (this season and possibly next) we should be fine as long as Samuels is healthy. Over the next 2 to three years, I suspect that we will see a changing of the guard along the line.

While we may not lose two starters "right off the bat", I remained convinced that we will lose two starters for a significant length of time (more than three games) during the season. Hopefully, not in a manner that overlaps. Our line is of the age where injuries happen, even to those not previously injury prone.

With that said, I agree that Fabini makes a solid backup. In many ways, he is a 6th starter in that I don't think the quality drops too far when he goes in. Of course, he too is over 30 and not a long term solution. Rhinehardt and Heyer give good young depth and I am betting at least one OFA makes the team along the line. I agree there is no urgency THIS year. Next year, who knows.

The line is solid and maybe this year we get a break by not getting any "breaks" (It could happen, I am just not counting on it).

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As sad as I am to say, I'm almost expecting at least one major injury along the line this year. It is almost a guarantee w/ this team. That is why we need more depth.

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I've been reading The Warpath for awhile now and I love the passion and knowledge displayed on the site. With that said, here is my first reply to a topic.

I still like Jansen alot. To say he's on the decline is a bit premature I think. The guy got his leg rolled over. It was one of those freak plays, it just happens. If healthy (and I see no reason he won't be), he'll be back to his nasty self.

Randy Thomas is a stud. Plain and simple. I love watching him lead block for Portis. Thomas is the most athletic lineman we have in my opinion.

HAIL!!

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

Injuries happen plain and simple, you just have to deal with them nobody likes them.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

I think that last year was a freak year for injuries on the line. Our RT, and RG got hurt for the year. The primary backup RT got hurt (Wade). Our LG was new to the team. Our replacement RG was a use to playing tackle. Somehow we still ended up in the middle of the pack on offense and in the playoffs.

What concerns me most is Jansen. Not because of his age, but because I was sitting in the stands right there when he broke his ankle. It looked terrible. It was turned all the way around. I have had friends that have had similar breaks and they lost some mobility because of it. If this is the case with Jansens ankle, he is going to have more of a problem with pass protection (less in run blocking). I'll be hoping for the best, but I'm sure he will be better than Heyer. The kid did a good job for being an undrafted rookie, but he had to have help all the time. Jansen can usually handle things alone.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

one thing i want to note:

people keep using the term "freak injury". in my opinion, there are virtually no freak injuries. there are jsut injuries. this is football. players get injured. the job of the front office is to ensure that the drop-off in ability between a starter and the back-up is as insignificant as possible.

lack of depth on defense killed us in '06. lack of depth on the o-line could have killed us in '07 but do to the resliience of some tough dudes, like wade, we were able to pull through. however, it really showed in the playoff game. the right side of the line was way over-matched.

hopefully we can find another rookie free agent who can servicable on the level that heyer was last year. but don't think jansen's injury was a 'freak' occurrence that won't happen again. that, or something similar, can, and in all likelihood will, happen to somebody.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

next years draft we have sum beast o line or dline fall to us at the number 30 spot since we will lose in the nfc champ game we draft him and nothin but linemen in nxt yrs draft since both our lines are ageing and bring in sum youtful talent

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[QUOTE=snoopy;447721]next years draft we have sum beast o line or dline fall to us at the number 30 spot since we will lose in the nfc champ game we draft him and nothin but linemen in nxt yrs draft since both our lines are ageing and bring in sum youtful talent[/QUOTE]

Dude. Not a comma? Not a period? ageing? youtful?

Seriously?

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

I just think that the Redskins can't run like in the old days (the '80s), and I'm used to seeing them knock people over for John Riggins. Now it seems like it's the other way around. The Gibbs 1 teams had monstrous offensive lines that helped ram the ball down other teams' defenses. I remember "The Diesel" and RFK, and I want those days back. I want other teams to actually FEAR playing the Redskins. I know I'm not making any sense, but when I think of Fabini and Heyer and Wade, I remember seeing them getting pushed around a lot. I want the O-line to be stronger than the last five or six years, and if the current players work to get stronger, then I'll be satisfied. But if they keep playing at the same level as these past few years, I look for Jason Campbell to be scrambling for his life. I know it's not acceptable to criticize the Redskins on this site, but I honestly want the O-line to be successful.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[QUOTE=JLee9718;448375]I just think that the Redskins can't run like in the old days (the '80s), and I'm used to seeing them knock people over for John Riggins. Now it seems like it's the other way around. The Gibbs 1 teams had monstrous offensive lines that helped ram the ball down other teams' defenses. I remember "The Diesel" and RFK, and I want those days back. I want other teams to actually FEAR playing the Redskins. [B]I know I'm not making any sense, but when I think of Fabini and Heyer and Wade, I remember seeing them getting pushed around a lot[/B]. I want the O-line to be stronger than the last five or six years, and if the current players work to get stronger, then I'll be satisfied. But if they keep playing at the same level as these past few years, I look for Jason Campbell to be scrambling for his life. I know it's not acceptable to criticize the Redskins on this site, but I honestly want the O-line to be successful.[/QUOTE]

I'd say your memory is pretty good. If any one of these guys is part of the regular rotation we will not be dominant on offense. I wish we had made huge investments in our o-line too, but it would have made for a completely different draft (probably needed to trade up to get an immediate starter to replace Jansen/Kendall). It sucks to rely on hope but that's where we're at: hoping that injuries are few and far between. I have to expect Jansen to go down, probably early, and I hope Rhinehart can come in a play w/ a mean streak. I know he may be better suited for G but Jansen IMO is most likely to break and Heyer has never shown a mean streak.

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[QUOTE=The Goat;448747]I'd say your memory is pretty good. If any one of these guys is part of the regular rotation we will not be dominant on offense. I wish we had made huge investments in our o-line too, but it would have made for a completely different draft (probably needed to trade up to get an immediate starter to replace Jansen/Kendall). It sucks to rely on hope but that's where we're at: hoping that injuries are few and far between. I have to expect Jansen to go down, probably early, and I hope Rhinehart can come in a play w/ a mean streak. [B]I know he may be better suited for G but Jansen IMO is most likely to break and Heyer has never shown a mean streak[/B].[/QUOTE]

I agree he hasn't shown a mean streak but for a rookie going in like that and holding his own against the likes of Jason Taylor you have to give him some credit. I think Heyer is a potential starter it's just a matter of when Jansen either calls it quits or injuries force him to call it quits.

Re: Thomas/Jansen article
 

[quote=skinsfan69;447349]I'm very worried about Jansen. In 06 he was getting pushed around quite a bit and he was healthy. Now he's two years older and coming off a serious injury where he missed a whole season. Heyer had better be ready.[/quote]

Definitely a concern. He's one of those guys who is so easy to love because he became much more than was ever expected of him. He has been a true Redskin, and one of our best role players. It would be a pity if his skills deteriorated to the point where he no longer started, because he brings so much more to the team than just his level of play.

And on an unrelated note, despite his recent injuries, I think we can safely say that Jansen is not injury prone. The injuries he's had recently would fell an elephant.