Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

I personally think she's cooked and should concede, but I don't think she's the type to bow out until the doc officially announces her death.

re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

You know what man, I agree. however im a diehard republican my job depends on it) so the more these two decide to bury themselves the happier I am.

re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

She should concede. Staying in at this point is only making things worse for the Dems.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

I thought she should have stayed in until this past Tuesday. Following the results of North Carolina and Indiana there isn't much left for her to gain. She may be right that she has a better chance against McCain than Obama, but that's besides the point really at this time. By staying on as long as she has it has the potential to have the same effect on the Democratic Party's chances as Ted Kennedy in 1980 or Jesse Jackson in 1988.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Hillary probably should have quit when she got Heath Shuler's endorsement.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

I agree with SmootSmack, Heath Shuler's endorsement was the knell of death. j/k I honestly think she should she probably drop out after W.VA, which is tomorrow or May 20th at the very latest.

It's time to get on with the business of dueling with John McCain and the Republicans.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Hillary is hoping to pull super-delegates I think, but the people have spoken -- time for her to drop out.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Daseal;447922]Hillary is hoping to pull super-delegates I think, but the people have spoken -- time for her to drop out.[/quote]

And so have the Super Delegates, Obama is now leading even in that category. And I'm sure more will follow every day from here on.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;447876]She should concede. Staying in at this point is only making things worse for the Dems.[/QUOTE]

I have the feeling the Dems are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Don't get me wrong, I want to see Obama win, but George Bush beat the Dems [U]twice[/U].

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;447926]I have the feeling the Dems are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Don't get me wrong, I want to see Obama win, but George Bush beat the Dems [U]twice[/U].[/quote]

Lord help us all.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;447931]Lord help us all.[/quote]

I thought you weren't religious, Matt. :)

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=12thMan;447932]I thought you weren't religious, Matt. :)[/quote]

I'm not, but I might be if we have another 4 years of the same old

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;447935]I'm not, but I might be if we have another 4 years of the same old[/QUOTE]

Fortunately, I think that just about anyone is better than Bush. Obama himself said McCain would be an improvement over Bush. You might not agree with McCain, but at least he has half a brain and some principles to boot. I think Obama is the best person for the job, but I think we are left with some of the best candidates we've had in decades.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;447949]Fortunately, [B]I think that just about anyone is better than Bush.[/B] Obama himself said McCain would be an improvement over Bush. You might not agree with McCain, but at least he has half a brain and some principles to boot. I think Obama is the best person for the job, but I think we are left with some of the best candidates we've had in decades.[/quote]

I agree

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

What's amazing to me is that Obama is now clearly the candidate in waiting, yet he will probably lose West Virginia by 20 or more points tomorrow. His appeal seems to be somewhat limited.

She should stay in as long as possible. We might find out Obama has a sex bunker and then all bets are off.

[IMG]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080512/capt.6ee8db4ce61e4d3ea95a0a9aaf2d62a6.clinton_2008_political_play_of_the_day_wvea104.jpg?x=400&y=341&sig=bqM9nIgyMQLcOKoGCF4DHA--[/IMG]

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;447989]What's amazing to me is that Obama is now clearly the candidate in waiting, yet he will probably lose West Virginia by 20 or more points tomorrow. His appeal seems to be somewhat limited.[/QUOTE]

If Obama's appeal is somewhat limited, HRC and JM have even less appeal. Obama is beating Hillary and also is beating McCain in head to head matches.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;448047]i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially[/QUOTE]

Part of the problem is the double standard that exists in politics. Had McCain made the remarks Hillary made recently (Obama being weak with hard working white americans without college education) he would have been castigated as a rascist and the redneck jokes would have been flying. Yes, Hillary caught [I]some[/I] flak, but does anyone seriously think that she was treated the same way a republican would have been?

Apparently, it's okay to make rascist remarks if as long as your [I]our[/I] rascist.

Until [I]both[/I] parties stop playing racism as a "card", legitmate attacks on rascism will always be viewed with skepticism.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;447876]She should concede. Staying in at this point is only making things worse for the Dems.[/quote]

You are correct.

This is why she should continue to screech and lie. :D

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

agreed. somehow, the Clinton's thought it was OK to declare Bill " the first black president". its funny, once. every primary, all the news networks tell us that so and so is doing well with certain ethnic groups. why? all i need is who won, and who lost. but then again, the United States has never had 2 candidates that weren't white men.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

What I find interesting is how the media has decided to slice and dice the electorate into so many categories this year. It's totally over analysis, in my opinion.

The Dems have never done well with the so called Reagan Democrats, or the blue collar "white voter", as Hillary put it.

This isn't specific to Barack Obama, but it has certainly raised some eyebrows due to race and gender playing such an important role in this election.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;447997]If Obama's appeal is somewhat limited, HRC and JM have even less appeal. Obama is beating Hillary and also is beating McCain in head to head matches.[/quote]

My point is how can he be losing to her by 20 points anywhere when everyone knows he's going to win. It's like betting on the loser of the game after you know the score. It speaks to a deep-seated dissatisfaction with Obama as the candidate in many circles. This can be exploited by Republicans very easily. There are entire demographics where he has almost no support and those are voters the Dermocrats need to reach out to. People keep talking about all the new people Obama is bringing in but his supporters (blacks, college professors, homosexuals, labor unions, vegans, pot devotees, the tattoos and piercings set, single white guys trying to impress this girl they like who is really into politics, etc) are all people who vote Democratic all the time anyway. He may have made these people more enthusiastic and they are not embarrased by him the way they were of say, Dukakis, but it's the same old people.

And, any Democrat should be trouncing any Republican this year, yet the polls are quite close, and I have not seen one that shows Obama's support at greater than 50%.

I was also interested to see that BHO has thrown all the people that defended his choice not to wear an American Flag lapel pin under the bus, by choosing to wear an American Flag lapel pin. Of course, throwing people under the bus is like taking out the garbage for this guy. He does it every Tuesday.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

I don't think McCain will play the race card, I hope his followers don't either but I am less certain of that.

Regardless of the outcome, I would be most pleased if Obama's skin color didn't become a factor into the election. Let people hold what opinions they may - to some degree that simply isn't going to change (Not saying it's right, just that it is). If race becomes an ugly factor in the election, it will set this country wayyy back.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=dmek25;448047]i think the loss in West Virginia still shows we have a long way to go in this country, racially[/quote]


So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=70Chip;448123]So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.[/quote]

You bring up some good points, 70. It was Toni Morrison that declared Bill the first black Prez., but she has recently backed away from those statements, saying she didn't mean it quite "that way". Okay, whatever.

As far as Black America and the Clintons are concerned, I think Black America has learned the hard way what kind of politicians the Clintons really are. But as loyal as they were in supporting him/them, I think to a great extent, they'll most certainly dishonor them at the polls in Fall, provided that Hillary somehow get's the nomination. She can stick a fork in the black vote, because it's cooked.

I wouldn't read too much into the national polls right now. By any measurement, it's still early. We all know how fickled those national polls can be anyway. We haven't had a single debate between the respective, presumptive nominees yet, so those polls are pretty meaningless if you ask me.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=12thMan;448118]
The Dems have never done well with the so called Reagan Democrats, or the blue collar "white voter", as Hillary put it.
[/quote]

If you limit your view to the past 30 years perhaps, and take out union voters. And remove the quotations around "white" because you can't separate race from current party alignments, particularly in the South. It is impossible to separate the erosion of the 'Solid South' from issues of race and the Civil Rights Revolution. The Reagan Democrats were the end of a long process that went back to the New Deal, Eisenhower's national popularity, Johnson and Civil Rights, Barry Goldwater, Nixon's Southern Strategy, Democratic rules replacing seniority in committee assignments, etc.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Bitter political arguments aside, I think you've got to admit that this election has the potential to be one of the most interesting in recent memory.

We're coming off one of the most hated presidents in a long time (if ever) and with an incredibly polarized country that seems split right down the middle.

Regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, I'm so curious to see how the race shapes up. Bush is loathed by the majority, but loathed enough that lifetime Republicans would vote for Obama or Clinton? How does a large scale war and a faltering economy fit in with all the political vitriol? What's the fallout of 8 years of Bush on both parties? Like someone else here said, to hear the media you'd think ANY Democrat would walk away with the election in hand, but that doesn't seem to be what early polls are indicating.

Fascinating to say the least.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

It's the first presidential race since 1948 where there wasn't an incumbent of some sort running. That alone has made it more interesting.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

I'm really curious to see who the VP choices will be. And what, if any, roles Hillary and Bush will have at the Democratic and Republican conventions, respectively.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

What's she's doing is just unbelievable. It's really sad and pathetic to see her and Bill reduced to this.

Also, it seems like they keep pushing the goalpost with their arguments. The magic number is no longer 2025, it 2209 now which includes Michigan and Florida now.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Let's not forget that Obama only needs to carry Kerry's states plus Ohio to win. For all the talk of Dean's 50 state strategy at the end of the day the dems will know where to campaign.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=70Chip;448120]My point is how can he be losing to her by 20 points anywhere when everyone knows he's going to win. It's like betting on the loser of the game after you know the score. It speaks to a deep-seated dissatisfaction with Obama as the candidate in many circles. This can be exploited by Republicans very easily. There are entire demographics where he has almost no support and those are voters the Dermocrats need to reach out to. People keep talking about all the new people Obama is bringing in but his supporters ([B]blacks, college professors, homosexuals, labor unions, vegans, pot devotees, the tattoos and piercings set, single white guys trying to impress this girl they like who is really into politics, etc[/B]) are all people who vote Democratic all the time anyway. He may have made these people more enthusiastic and they are not embarrased by him the way they were of say, Dukakis, but it's the same old people.

And, any Democrat should be trouncing any Republican this year, yet the polls are quite close, and I have not seen one that shows Obama's support at greater than 50%.

I was also interested to see that BHO has thrown all the people that defended his choice not to wear an American Flag lapel pin under the bus, by choosing to wear an American Flag lapel pin. Of course, throwing people under the bus is like taking out the garbage for this guy. He does it every Tuesday.[/quote]

You really need to stop hanging out with John Rocker.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

70, do you rally believe that stuff? or are you just trying to liven things up? right now, there are republicans that would vote for H. R. Puffin-stuff, if he were their nominee. maybe once in a while you should try thinking outside the box. is this country really in better shape after 8 years of Bush? because i would be willing to bet you voted for him twice. whoever wins this general election has one helluva of a mess to clean up. do we really need someone who agrees with what has been going on in this country for the last 30 years, or someone who seems to want to try something new? that is pretty much how this election boils down

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Republicans got [URL="http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0508/Childers_wins_Miss_special_election.html"]murdered[/URL] in 3 recent special elections in heavily republican districts the GOP held for decades. The GOP is going to get clobbered come November and anyone that doesn't think so is delusional. The jig is up!

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

Sorry, saden, but thinking that [U]anything[/U] in politics is a sure thing is delusional. I hope you are right, though, and I will happily eat crow on this one.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;448356]Sorry, saden, but thinking that [U]anything[/U] in politics is a sure thing is delusional. I hope you are right, though, and I will happily eat crow on this one.[/quote]

Nothing is one hundred percent certain but somethings are more certain than others specially when backed by [URL="http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues/trust_on_issues"]trends and facts[/URL]. All indications are similar to what happened in '94 to democrats and in [URL="http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/"]'06 to the republicans[/URL].

The dipshit in Mississippi ran on the following platform and got clobbered by 8 points. I love it.

[yt]zv4qFO2eEJY[/yt]

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=dmek25;448313]70, do you rally believe that stuff? or are you just trying to liven things up? right now, there are republicans that would vote for H. R. Puffin-stuff, if he were their nominee. maybe once in a while you should try thinking outside the box. is this country really in better shape after 8 years of Bush? because i would be willing to bet you voted for him twice. whoever wins this general election has one helluva of a mess to clean up. do we really need someone who agrees with what has been going on in this country for the last 30 years, or someone who seems to want to try something new? that is pretty much how this election boils down[/quote]

Dmek you're such a tax-hiking, government-expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, volvo-driving, New York Times-reading, body-piercing, Hollywood-loving left-wing freak show. Hold on, I have to go watch Sean Hannity. (Hopefully the sarcasm here is evident, but you never know).

[yt]K4-vEwD_7Hk[/yt]

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;448120]There are entire demographics where he has almost no support and those are voters the Dermocrats need to reach out to. People keep talking about all the new people Obama is bringing in but his supporters (blacks, college professors, homosexuals, labor unions, vegans, pot devotees, the tattoos and piercings set, single white guys trying to impress this girl they like who is really into politics, etc) are all people who vote Democratic all the time anyway. He may have made these people more enthusiastic and they are not embarrased by him the way they were of say, Dukakis, but it's the same old people.[/QUOTE]

You can't honestly believe that Obama is comparable to Dukakis and that his appeal is limited to the fringes. I've looked at the polls and, yes, Obama has not found broad support among lower income people, the less educated, and the elderly. But I think you would be mistaken to think that Obama is just a fringe Dem. Obama is quite popular among independents like myself. I think when the general election rolls around you will be quite surprised with just how popular Obama is.

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=dmek25;448313]someone who agrees with what has been going on in this country for the last 30 years, or someone who seems to want to try something new?[/quote]Is this really a legitimate classification of everyone in the United States?

1) People who agree with the last 30 years

2) People who want to try something new.

Can't we be somewhere in between (like, say, McCain)? What is the world coming to?

Re: Should Hillary Hang It Up?
 

[quote=70Chip;448123]So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.[/quote]

Completely agreed. Those accusations are asinine.

IF someone votes for or against Obama simply because he's black, that's not racist, it's just ignorant and stupid.

IF someone votes for or against Clinton simply because she's a woman, that's not sexist, it's just ignorant and stupid.

IF someone votes for or against McCain simply because he's an older man, that's not *create new PC term*-ist, it's just ignorant and stupid.