Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

**BREAKING NEWS** was on ticker on ESPN
Owners UNANIMOUSLY vote to opt out of Agreement.

no link yet though

re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

No surprise.

Re: Labor Agreement (UPDATED W/LINK)
 

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3404596"]ESPN - NFL owners vote unanimously to opt out of labor deal - NFL[/URL]

re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

i really cant believe they agreed to that in the first place. probably doing the new commissioner a favor

re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

This thread title tells us nothing. Changing it.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=dmek25;449203]i really cant believe they agreed to that in the first place. probably doing the new commissioner a favor[/quote]

I always thought they made that deal in haste to save the season & because the nflpa had them right where they wanted them.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

From what I've heard, it will be at least 3 yrs before possible strike.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

As I recall, although 2010 would be uncapped - it would not be manna from heaven for the players. In fact, I think the last years of the deal had some rather draconian measures that would negatively affect the players in order to encourage them to accept some form of salary cap.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;449235]As I recall, although 2010 would be uncapped - it would not be manna from heaven for the players. In fact, I think the last years of the deal had some rather draconian measures that would negatively affect the players in order to encourage them to accept some form of salary cap.[/QUOTE]

yeah, something to do with limiting which players would technically be "free agents" and making it much easier for teams to keep their marque players.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

This is an area of sports that I'm not that familiar with...Why does the players union expect to get an even larger chunk of the revenue (according to the comments in the article) when the owners were the ones who terminated the contracts? Also, it would seem that if something was unanimously agreed upon to be terminated, it was never really that reasonable in the first place. Why didn't they write into the deal an opportunity to rework it (with mutual consent of both sides) without terminating it or letting it expire? That way you can avoid leaving the shelter of the contract at any given time.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

Changes in 2010 (the uncapped year) if no new agreement is reached (per P. King at [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/05/20/react/index.html?eref=T1]The owners opted out of the labor deal at the best time possible - Peter King - SI.com[/url])

FREE AGENCY: Currently, players who are unsigned and have finished at least four NFL seasons are free. In the 2010 market, players will be free if they are unsigned after at least their sixth NFL season. In other words, 2009 would have to be a player's sixth season, and he would have to enter 2010 unsigned. Let's use Cleveland wide receiver Braylon Edwards as an example. In his original rookie contract, signed in 2005, the final year is 2009, which would be his fifth NFL season. Ordinarily, he'd be a free-agent in 2010 -- if the team didn't sign him before then or place a franchise tag on him. But under the 2010 rules, he won't be a free-agent.

MORE RESTRICTIONS VIA FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION TAGS: Each team now can use one franchise-player tag and one transition-player tag -- which pay the tagged player, respectively, the average of the top five and top 10 salaries at his position. In 2010, the revised deal would allow each team the use of a second transition tag. If a team chose to use all its tags, it could stop its best three players from hitting the unrestricted free-agent market.

RESTRICTIONS FOR THE TOP EIGHT TEAMS IN FOOTBALL: If the uncapped year is reached, the teams with the best eight records in football in 2009 will be severely restricted from jumping into the pool. It's still not precisely determined how the system would work, but let's say the Patriots are one of the top eight and want to sign a free-agent to a five-year, $20-million contract. They'd have to lose their own player or players to contracts totaling $20 million before they could sign the free agent they want. Conceptually, that's how this clause in the deal is going to work, but the exact mechanics of it are not clear yet. The purpose is very clear: The best teams are going to have tight leashes in free agency.

All told, teams would be able to protect more players with tags, and would have fewer free agents because of the six-year rule, and the best eight teams would be playing with one hand tied behind their back.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;449265]This is an area of sports that I'm not that familiar with...Why does the players union expect to get an even larger chunk of the revenue (according to the comments in the article) when the owners were the ones who terminated the contracts? Also, it would seem that if something was unanimously agreed upon to be terminated, it was never really that reasonable in the first place. Why didn't they write into the deal an opportunity to rework it (with mutual consent of both sides) without terminating it or letting it expire? That way you can avoid leaving the shelter of the contract at any given time.[/quote]


I expect that once it became clear that there were enough votes to terminate the deal (9 owners I believe?) everyone voted unanimously in order to present a unified front to the players for negotiating purposes.

If the owners want to unring this bell, they will have to be willing to endure a strike or initiate a lockout. The Union seems convinced that they are unstoppable. Once some of these guys miss a few paychecks, though, Upshaw will find himself in a different position. He is not Donald Fehr. The NFLPA has been put in its place before and it may be time to do it again.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

I'm not up on all this stuff but with the money that these players make now days I wounder how strong they can hold together a strike. You have the lower paid players which need their checks and higher paid players that will take the biggest income hit from a strike. So then I feel you only have the guys somewhere in the middle which might be willing to hold out longer.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

Get the replacement players ready.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

In the end the owners always have the advantage. They're already rich. Eventually the players will have to cave in to the owners demands.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;449294]In the end the owners always have the advantage. They're already rich. Eventually the players will have to cave in to the owners demands.[/QUOTE]

That may not be such a bad thing. I may not understand all of this stuff completely, but I like how things were in the 80's. Good teams were able to keep their good players and not lose them to free agency. I realize it's not fair to the smaller market teams, but honestly, if the Redskins happen to have a dynasty team on the horizon and things are made easier for them to keep these players paid and happy, then I'm all for a change.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

The real losers in this deal is the fans. Can you imagine spending a fall with no Redskins?
I lost interest in baseball years ago due to all the labor problems. True, the owners and players are all making some serious $$. Without us the fans they don't have an audience to market to.

Hopefully they can negotiate a new deal.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

They really need to go to a incentive based pay system. Pay the players a decent guaranteed base salary, but then add a strong incentive based pay system. So guy that has a banner year will get big bucks. A player that sucks gets his base pay only. This makes a lot of sense for the unproven rookies.
I am tired of seeing a contract like #1 pick Jake Long's rookie contract. How is that Jake Long immediately becomes the highest paid offensive lineman in the NFL and he has never take a snap in the NFL? This guy can end up being another Robert Gallery. Good but not great.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=Defensewins;449307]They really need to go to a incentive based pay system. Pay the players a decent guaranteed base salary, but then add a strong incentive based pay system. So guy that has a banner year will get big bucks. A player that sucks gets his base pay only. This makes a lot of sense for the unproven rookies.
I am tired of seeing a contract like #1 pick Jake Long's rookie contract. How is that Jake Long immediately becomes the highest paid offensive lineman in the NFL and he has never take a snap in the NFL? This guy can end up being another Robert Gallery. Good but not great.[/quote]

I agree with you all the way. Did you guys see the absurd amount of money that Matt Ryan got. To make that much money and to not be proven. Its sick.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

I think it makes the solid but modestly paid veterans sick to their stomachs. Where is the loyalty? The system makes the owners have to pay players based on potential and not on proven talent.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=JankySpanky80;449308]I agree with you all the way. Did you guys see the absurd amount of money that Matt Ryan got. To make that much money and to not be proven. Its sick.[/quote]

Just heard it on the radio and nearly fell out of my chair. Insane.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

WooooHooooo. Ooops did I write that out loud? Sorry. I remember how the teams worked prior to the agreement. I can say that, that's the only time I have been able to identify a "Corps Redskin" as the old ball coach used to say. Players didn't have to jump ship for better pay because the team they were on was to close to the CAP and couldn't give him what he wanted. I always viewed those players as traitors up and until recently when I realized it's not about whether they want to be a Redskin, It was about how much the Redskins were willing to pay the player.

I guess I trying to say I hope it is better then the system they have now. Allow teams to keep the players they need to keep.

I vote to drop the CAP. Start an incentive based pay system. Put a limit on what Rookies can earn and give them only 2-3yr contracts to show case their talent in the NFL then allow them to get the million dollar contracts.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=MrJL;449287]Get the replacement players ready.[/quote]


I smell a sequel coming on,maybe this time they'll be allowed to film at FedEX instead of Ravens Stadium.:woot:

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=Defensewins;449307]They really need to go to a incentive based pay system. Pay the players a decent guaranteed base salary, but then add a strong incentive based pay system. So guy that has a banner year will get big bucks. A player that sucks gets his base pay only. This makes a lot of sense for the unproven rookies.
I am tired of seeing a contract like #1 pick Jake Long's rookie contract. How is that Jake Long immediately becomes the highest paid offensive lineman in the NFL and he has never take a snap in the NFL? This guy can end up being another Robert Gallery. Good but not great.[/quote]

But what happens to guys like Thomas and Jansen last year? You got hurt playing so no money? Or a guy that wants to remain with a coaching staff or city he likes but he'll only catch 90 passes there. Team B throws every down so he'll get 120 receptions but have no shot at playoffs and not be involved in the community because he is only there for a check.
I completely agree with a rookie cap where players are slotted and each get a 2 or 3 year deal to prove themselves. If you eliminate the outrageous rookie contracts, then most everyone else in the NFL will be paid based on what they've done.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

Now you have to go and screw up my League. LOL. Ok how about if someone gets hurt they only get the base salary. Which could be more then the $400,000. they have now. Hell I'm considered over the hill but I would take the $400,000 in a heart beat. Maybe if they didn't go and purchase million dollar homes and $100,000 dollar cars. I'm sure they could find a way to live off their measly $400,000.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=riggins44;449301]The real losers in this deal is the fans. Can you imagine spending a fall with no Redskins?
I lost interest in baseball years ago due to all the labor problems. True, the owners and players are all making some serious $$. Without us the fans they don't have an audience to market to.

Hopefully they can negotiate a new deal.[/quote]


I agree with you 100% about the fans but at the earliest you have 3 seasons till it happens.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

I think we'll be able to get a deal done in time before the lockout. The owners and the players will recognize the urgency of the situation before they are at the 11th hour and no deal is done. If no deal gets done and it does go to the 11th hour I do believe the owners will force the players to accept their hand, because in the end the players don't want to lose paychecks over this.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

It's ludicrous that Vick got to keep his bonus while he's sitting in jail. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

no big deal. still a lot for time to work out a new deal, and in the end, no one wants to stop the gravy train, they just want to see how far they can push each other.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=rypper11;449317]But what happens to guys like Thomas and Jansen last year? You got hurt playing so no money? Or a guy that wants to remain with a coaching staff or city he likes but he'll only catch 90 passes there. Team B throws every down so he'll get 120 receptions but have no shot at playoffs and not be involved in the community because he is only there for a check.
I completely agree with a rookie cap where players are slotted and each get a 2 or 3 year deal to prove themselves. If you eliminate the outrageous rookie contracts, then most everyone else in the NFL will be paid based on what they've done.[/QUOTE]

I think one of the things the league should do with a lower base pay, is that for rookies at least they should pay for an insurance policy for the player if he suffers a major injury.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=rypper11;449317]But what happens to guys like Thomas and Jansen last year? You got hurt playing so no money? Or a guy that wants to remain with a coaching staff or city he likes but he'll only catch 90 passes there. Team B throws every down so he'll get 120 receptions but have no shot at playoffs and not be involved in the community because he is only there for a check.
I completely agree with a rookie cap where players are slotted and each get a 2 or 3 year deal to prove themselves. If you eliminate the outrageous rookie contracts, then most everyone else in the NFL will be paid based on what they've done.[/QUOTE]

He would still get his guaranteed base pay. However you can throw in injury clause that can pay him based on his previous years performance, but not qual to or more than he would get if he played the entire season. He is not going to get the wear and tear of playing the season so he should not get big money.
Plus you can add injury incentives, like extra money for attending all of his rehab training sessions and following all of his doctors recommendations to get healthy. Incentive money for helping coach and prepare his replacement. He can get extra money for attending all of the games, cheering on his fellow teammates;staying in town during the rest of the season and working out. You see where am I going?

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

I sure hope that the NFL nevers, becomes like baseball

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;449426]I sure hope that the NFL nevers, becomes like baseball[/quote]

Ok, why is baseball worse then the NFL? I kinda like the idea of the team still being able to sign all their players and even if they over the cap they only pay a fine. Instead of having a draft pick taken away.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;449314]I smell a sequel coming on,maybe this time they'll be allowed to film at FedEX instead of Ravens Stadium.:woot:[/QUOTE]

Snyder needs to get that Washington Arena team off the ground then he could have some ready.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[quote=MrJL;449393]I think one of the things the league should do with a lower base pay, is that for rookies at least they should pay for an insurance policy for the player if he suffers a major injury.[/quote]

Great idea. That would have protected Bo Jackson but not given Ryan Leaf a bunch of money.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;449294]In the end the owners always have the advantage. They're already rich. Eventually the players will have to cave in to the owners demands.[/QUOTE]

Not all the owners are cleaning up. A lot of the owners are raking in cash but their expenses (cost of buying a team they couldnt afford, their part of the stadium bond, etc.) are huge and their expenses are as much as they take in. Some teams like Pgh are not big revenue generators but their expenses are low. I think a lot of what we see NFL owners doing is smoke & mirrors.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

[QUOTE=irish;449699]Not all the owners are cleaning up. A lot of the owners are raking in cash but their expenses (cost of buying a team they couldnt afford, their part of the stadium bond, etc.) are huge and their expenses are as much as they take in. Some teams like Pgh are not big revenue generators but their expenses are low. I think a lot of what we see NFL owners doing is smoke & mirrors.[/QUOTE]

I do not think you need to feel sorry for the NFL owners. Even if their team is in one of the few markets that is not making huge money, the value of the teams and property grows daily.
Here is an example of an NFL owner that did not have enough cash flow as you talk about:
Norman Braman in 1985 purchased the very talented Philadelphia Eagles football team for $65 million, borrowing most of the $65 million.
Braman kept the team for 9 years , he was cash poor so he invested very little money in the team, but managed to pay himself a salary of $6 million a year from team money.
In just nine short years later (1994) Braman sold the team to Jeffrey Lurie for $184 million. So Braman paid himself $54 million in salary those nine years, invested very little of his own money to upgrade the team and still managed to make an additional $119 million on the sale of the Eagles.

So now Jeffrey Lurie who bought the Eagles in 1994 for $184 million, can now sell the team for at least $883 million, which is what is currently worth/valued recently.

I do not think you need to feel sorry for the owners.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

So the major problem is the owners most likely have their money tied into the team. No different then a home owner and his house. Then the owner has to pay taxes on the business and possibly property, ie: practice facilities. Insurance for the property and probably any injuries to players on his property. On top of paying all the salaries of non players who help run the team and provide benifits for them. Then you have to look at how much he's paying the players and then see what his actaul take in is.

This is actually what the players want to see...what % do the owners actually recieve after all their bills have been paid or is it tied up into property. If it's tied up then it sucks to be a player for that team. However if the owner is reaping what he has sowed then the players want to dip into his pocket more for a bigger piece of the pie.

It would be interesting to see an owner that allows players to purchase stock in the team and have an investment in the team for later yrs. The only thing that would kill the owner though would be if the players all wanted to sell their shares at once. With a good team an owner may be able to sell it to the public or another rich invester.

Re: Owners Vote to Opt Out of Labor Agreement
 

I like the homeownership analogy. And likewise, they can leverage the value of the franchise to diversify their portfolio, ie: six flags, red zebra. A homeowner could have refinanced and purchased a few rental townhouses.

Dan's been talking venture capitalists out of dough since he was 22. And on a hell of a lot less leverage then he's got to play with now.

Im sure there comes a point in your life, when you have the money to stop having to make mistakes to reach success. You can afford the best money minds available.

(Sorry for the inconsistent rambling, coffee in the afternoon makes me crazy)