Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Last year we extended contracts for key players...such as Cooley and Betts.
These moves were highly praised.
I know a few here think Campbell may not be our long term answer because of his winning record....However, I do believe he is solid and will improve.

The best time to buy is when perceived value is low.
The last thing we want to do is wait until after he has a breakout year to double his value.

At worst, he will not improve...which is still better than any QB the Skins have had since Brad Johnson...(excluding Collins' 4 game push and Brunell for a short time)

What do you think?
Should we use our 07 cap space to lock up JC?

Schneed....what is his likely value now and can it work with the cap space we have?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I would look to extend him sometime during the season as long as he's shown that he's taking his game to the next level.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

There is still 2 years left on his deal. Lets see how he does this season.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

If I'm not mistaken JC is slated to earn a pretty large base salary this year. I wouldn't mind extending him, but he really hasn't done anything yet to warrant a hefty extension/signing bonus.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=GMScud;449424]If I'm not mistaken JC is slated to earn a pretty large base salary this year. I wouldn't mind extending him, but he really hasn't done anything yet to warrant a hefty extension/signing bonus.[/quote]
I agree, but if he has a break out season, then we may be in trouble. I am not sure what the rules are, but I would like to see them extend Montgomery, Golston and Doughty, before they become restricted free agents.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

JC probably isn't in any rush to sign anything right now. He has the next two years to have a breakout season and that's all he needs to get a very good deal. I hope he also knows that he can't regress or he will be watching from the bench.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Yea like others I see absolutely no need to rush extending his contract. Right now he hasn't proven he deserves it and both sides(JC and the Front Office) know that.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Until the OCHO 5 stories, I figured that they were getting cap space in order to re-sign JC. Maybe that was part of it as well.

This labor problem doesn't bode well for re-signing him this year. IN 2 years, unless a new deal is struck, they could be looking at no cap. His agent would tell him to wait I would think.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=T.O.Killa;449425]I agree, but if he has a break out season, then we may be in trouble. I am not sure what the rules are, but I would like to see them extend Montgomery, Golston and Doughty, before they become restricted free agents.[/QUOTE]

Montgomery, I can see...the other 2 are easily replaced and none are pressing issues right now...
The cost risk of a breakout season for these 3 vs JC is significant.

The benefit of extending Campbell before a breakout saves a tremendous amount more than a breakout for these guys....and there is still flop potential for Golson and Doughty.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;449430]Until the OCHO 5 stories, I figured that they were getting cap space in order to re-sign JC. Maybe that was part of it as well.

This labor problem doesn't bode well for re-signing him this year. IN 2 years, unless a new deal is struck, they could be looking at no cap. His agent would tell him to wait I would think.[/QUOTE]

This is a good point....good thing Skins have most of our folks locked up....
I am worried about how this new labor problem will affect ability to extend contracts.....heck....that could potentially affect us signing free agents or making trades too.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

no need to lock jc up yet, and definetly noy doughty

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Jason Campbell is under contract for two more seasons, 2008 and 2009. His base salaries those years are $1.2 million and $800K respectively.

Deciding whether or not to extend him largely depends upon your opinion of him. Is he your franchise QB of the future or not?

I'd think right now he'd garner a deal similar to the one Derek Anderson just got from the Browns. He got 3 years, $24 million, with $13 million of it guaranteed. Campbell seems like a guy with a ton of promise who you can trust to lead your team, but he hasn't shown enough to commit to him for the long term. Hence the Derek Anderson comparison - a three year deal would seem to fit. I think that's a solid comparison in terms of value.

That said, we couldn't afford that contract on our cap right now. $24 million over 3 years, even if backloaded, is going to eat up too much space this coming season for us to still fit our rookies under the cap. So we'd probably have to wait until 2009 anyway.

But the Browns made that move because Anderson was a pending free agent. Since Campbell's under contract, and given our cap situation, it makes more sense to me that we let him play under his current contract this year. Then in 2009 we'll have one more season on which to judge, and at that point we can make the decision to extend him or move on.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

im with schneed on this. we need to see more out of Campbell before we lock up any more money in him. and with him already under contract for the next 2 seasons, at a good cap figure, lets make him earn his money

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Don't count on JC gettin re-signed before the new coaching staff has a chance to see what he does in a real game? This is one of the times when the FO and the coaching staff has to come together to evaluate which direction we want to go as a team. I realize there aren't many franchise QB's out there to choose from but maybe Jim Zorn doesn't see JC as the perfect fit for his system, which Gibbs did view him as, just yet.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

The poor guy always has a new offense to run. Give him a year in Zorn's offense, and let him decide.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

NFL contracts escalate from year to year, so the only way it make sense to do a deal in a year before you have to is if you can trade the player his guaranteed security for a few more years at a reasonable price.

If we could get Campbell to extend his deal by two years, at say 9 million dollars total, this would be a great deal for us. But there's no reason to pay him like a Franchise QB until this time next season.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

he'd probably want to wait since there's more upside to him getting PAID by waiting and showing he's improved.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

Might as well wait...if he sucks, then we are stuck with a bigger contract, if he does well, then he'll want even more money and possibly even sit out to get it. You sign him to an extended contract when he deserves it. While he played decent last year, he didn't earn an extension. I have no problem signing him to a large extension when he performs well and when he deserves it. None of us will.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

He's gotta show some improvement. With a new coach, a new passing game and some rookie wr's, he's going to need more time. Not yet.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;449508]He's gotta show some improvement. With a new coach, a new passing game and some rookie wr's, he's going to need more time. Not yet.[/quote]

well said. This year theres too many ?'s not enough answers.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;449475]The poor guy always has a new offense to run. Give him a year in Zorn's offense, and let him decide.[/QUOTE]

The poor guy? Perhaps he's the reason offensive coor. get fired. Gibbs and Saunders couldn't get him going, it's not like he didn't have bonified offensive coaches.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449537]The poor guy? [B]Perhaps he's the reason offensive coor. get fired.[/B] Gibbs and Saunders couldn't get him going, it's not like he didn't have bonified offensive coaches.[/quote]

The reason Saunders got let go is because he was Gibbs' guy and he's not a west coast coach. It would have made zero sense to hire Zorn and keep Saunders as the OC.

Let's not try to make a story where one doesn't exist.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

It seems everyone here is against the idea of extending Campbell ....if the FO agrees, then that means only 1 thing....we will be signing a FA or doing a trade...we've got a decent chunck of cap space to use this year.
We still need help on the Dline and OLB

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

JC while he has shown flashes of what he could become he has not done anything to receive a new deal.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;449545]The reason Saunders got let go is because he was Gibbs' guy and he's not a west coast coach. It would have made zero sense to hire Zorn and keep Saunders as the OC.

Let's not try to make a story where one doesn't exist.[/quote]

Saunders was fired and Zorn named the OC before he was named head coach so it is a bit unfair to say that Saunders was fired because he was not a WCO guy. While Hogtimus Prime is far to negative on Campbell IMO, there was some talk (i.e. LaCanfora) during the coaching search that Snyder was upset that the offense seemed to open up so much with Todd Collins at QB and apparently there was some feeling from the higher ups that Saunders had kept the training wheels on Campbell for too long. So, while Hogtimus clearly is off-base in blaming Campbell for Saunders' firing (in so much as he implies that Campbell played soooo horribly that Saunders had to go - did you actually watch him play last year?) he is not wholly incorrect in saying that there was some correlation between Campbell and Saunders demise in D.C. (though it is a bit of a stretch to get from his point to the one I propose here).

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

I glossed over the course of events but let's face it, Saunders was Gibbs' guy and there were even whispers that he could have been out of here even if Gibbs stayed on. As soon as Gibbs stepped down the writing was on the wall for Saunders... Snyder obviously wasn't his biggest fan.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;449545]The reason Saunders got let go is because he was Gibbs' guy and he's not a west coast coach. It would have made zero sense to hire Zorn and keep Saunders as the OC.

Let's not try to make a story where one doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

How does one point correlate with the other?

I fail to see your point, a coach was fired, and one probably retired because they couldn't get anything out of this kid, Gibbs put all his eggs in one basket with Campbell and it was obvious he couldn't run a complex system like Gibbs, and Saunders wanted, so of coarse the way to go is a much more simplified system in the WCO. It's pretty obvious that Zorn, and Saunders have two different philosophy's, but that doesn't excuse Campbells inability to comprehend the latter. If Gibbs new he had a QB that would make his life easy I doubt he would have retired, but I believe he new he was pushing a boulder up a hill with Campbell and at his age it was just to much for him with everything else he had going on.

And I do think you are incorrect on Saunders firing, he wasn't let go because he wasnt a Zorn guy, he was let go to be replaced by Zorn who was later promoted to head coach because the organization had deceided to try a different approach with Campbell in the WCO.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449623]How does one point correlate with the other?

I fail to see your point, a coach was fired, and one probably retired because they couldn't get anything out of this kid, Gibbs put all his eggs in one basket with Campbell and it was obvious he couldn't run a complex system like Gibbs, and Saunders wanted, so of coarse the way to go is a much more simplified system in the WCO. It's pretty obvious that Zorn, and Saunders have two different philosophy's, but that doesn't excuse Campbells inability to comprehend the latter. I[B]f Gibbs new he had a QB that would make his life easy I doubt he would have retired,[/B] but I believe he new he was pushing a boulder up a hill with Campbell and at his age it was just to much for him with everything else he had going on.

And I do think you are incorrect on Saunders firing, he wasn't let go because he wasnt a Zorn guy, he was let go to be replaced by Zorn who was later promoted to head coach because the organization had deceided to try a different approach with Campbell in the WCO.[/QUOTE]


Not to sound rude, but you or I have no idea why Gibbs retired.
There many different theories why he retired, but only Joe Gibbs and his wife know the real reason. Least of which is Jason Campbell.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449623]I fail to see your point, a coach was fired, and one probably retired because they couldn't get anything out of this kid, Gibbs put all his eggs in one basket with Campbell and it was obvious he couldn't run a complex system like Gibbs, and Saunders wanted, so of coarse the way to go is a much more simplified system in the WCO. It's pretty obvious that Zorn, and Saunders have two different philosophy's, but that doesn't excuse Campbells inability to comprehend the latter. If Gibbs new he had a QB that would make his life easy I doubt he would have retired, but I believe he new he was pushing a boulder up a hill with Campbell and at his age it was just to much for him with everything else he had going on.

And I do think you are incorrect on Saunders firing, he wasn't let go because he wasnt a Zorn guy, he was let go to be replaced by Zorn who was later promoted to head coach because the organization had deceided to try a different approach with Campbell in the WCO.[/quote]
There were many problems last year on offense, IMO a great deal of them were due to coaching issues and playcalling (Gibbs & Saunders not being 100% on the same page). Your statement is a HUGE reach to say Gibbs retired and Saunders was fired over Campbell. It's ridiculous.

I really take offense to folks implying that Campbell is dumb and can't comprehend the offense. The kid has learned a new offense almost every year for the last 7 years. If he was such an idiot Brunell or Collins would've been starting, not him. Let's also not forget he had a rookie QB coach (Lazor). I would love to see what you folks knocking Campbell's intelligence would score on the Wonderlic. I would also love to see the same folks stand in the pocket, make decisions that need to be made in under 2 seconds, (many in under a second) and try to deliver a football with 4 or more 250lb+ world-class athletes trying to rip your head off every play.

Get off the "Campbell is dumb" thing. If you want to question his accuracy or possibly his decison-making under pressure, those are fair criticisms. But the whole Campbell is dumb thing is just flat-out wrong.

And as far as Saunders goes, he was brought in to make the offense produce and it didn't. He is also the guy who lobbied hard for Brandon Lloyd and ARE (I like ARE, but we overpaid and expected too much from him). After these two mistakes and the offense struggling I would say his credibility was pretty much shot. I don't believe a different approach for Campbell is what got him fired.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;449416]Last year we extended contracts for key players...such as Cooley and Betts.
These moves were highly praised.
I know a few here think Campbell may not be our long term answer because of his winning record....However, I do believe he is solid and will improve.

The best time to buy is when perceived value is low.
The last thing we want to do is wait until after he has a breakout year to double his value.

At worst, he will not improve...which is still better than any QB the Skins have had since Brad Johnson...(excluding Collins' 4 game push and Brunell for a short time)

What do you think?
Should we use our 07 cap space to lock up JC?

Schneed....what is his likely value now and can it work with the cap space we have?[/QUOTE]

Smoking the J's on that one. I wouldn't extend nothing yet. He has two years left right? I wouldn't make a move till 3/4's into the last year based on his performance. he is just to unproven.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=prinzeofmoval;449647]Smoking the J's on that one. I wouldn't extend nothing yet. [/QUOTE]


Well, the Cowgirls just extended a RB who is likely to share carries...yes he's good but we dont really know how good.
IMO, Campbell is in a similar boat...
I dont think it a ridiculous concept to extend a good QB while his value is depressed....though I see most points about seeing how he'll click in this new offense first.

I'm really starting to think the Skins will eventually try to use their cap money on another Jason since it is probably too soon to extend Campbell.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449623]How does one point correlate with the other?

I fail to see your point, a coach was fired, and one probably retired because they couldn't get anything out of this kid, Gibbs put all his eggs in one basket with Campbell and it was obvious he couldn't run a complex system like Gibbs, and Saunders wanted, so of coarse the way to go is a much more simplified system in the WCO. It's pretty obvious that Zorn, and Saunders have two different philosophy's, but that doesn't excuse Campbells inability to comprehend the latter. If Gibbs new he had a QB that would make his life easy I doubt he would have retired, but I believe he new he was pushing a boulder up a hill with Campbell and at his age it was just to much for him with everything else he had going on.

And I do think you are incorrect on Saunders firing, he wasn't let go because he wasnt a Zorn guy, he was let go to be replaced by Zorn who was later promoted to head coach because the organization had deceided to try a different approach with Campbell in the WCO.[/quote]

You're so far out there with your "theories" that it's not even worth debating.

Do you know offiss?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;449628]There were many problems last year on offense, IMO a great deal of them were due to coaching issues and playcalling (Gibbs & Saunders not being 100% on the same page). Your statement is a HUGE reach to say Gibbs retired and Saunders was fired over Campbell. It's ridiculous.

I really take offense to folks implying that Campbell is dumb and can't comprehend the offense. The kid has learned a new offense almost every year for the last 7 years. If he was such an idiot Brunell or Collins would've been starting, not him. Let's also not forget he had a rookie QB coach (Lazor). I would love to see what you folks knocking Campbell's intelligence would score on the Wonderlic. I would also love to see the same folks stand in the pocket, make decisions that need to be made in under 2 seconds, (many in under a second) and try to deliver a football with 4 or more 250lb+ world-class athletes trying to rip your head off every play.

Get off the "Campbell is dumb" thing. If you want to question his accuracy or possibly his decison-making under pressure, those are fair criticisms. But the whole Campbell is dumb thing is just flat-out wrong.

And as far as Saunders goes, he was brought in to make the offense produce and it didn't. He is also the guy who lobbied hard for Brandon Lloyd and ARE (I like ARE, but we overpaid and expected too much from him). After these two mistakes and the offense struggling I would say his credibility was pretty much shot. I don't believe a different approach for Campbell is what got him fired.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] If he was such an idiot Brunell or Collins would've been starting, not him.[/QUOTE]

Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Defensewins;449626]Not to sound rude, but you or I have no idea why Gibbs retired.
There many different theories why he retired, but only Joe Gibbs and his wife know the real reason. Least of which is Jason Campbell.[/quote]

one of his grandkids had cancer and he wanted to be there cause he already missed so much of his life. he was also happier with the freedom of time nascar ownership gives him, and the ease with which he can incorporate his family there (ie grandkids playing in his office while he works).

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449676]Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?[/quote]

i think you're vastly mis-remembering last year.

the whole offense stunk, portis and moss were having issues, as was the OL, and they were adjusting to saunders playbook still.

after everyone got on the same page it worked a little better.

everyone wants to win, so i'm not sure what all these smoking man conspiracy theories are really for...

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=skinsnut;449431]Montgomery, I can see...the other 2 are easily replaced and none are pressing issues right now...
The cost risk of a breakout season for these 3 vs JC is significant.

The benefit of extending Campbell before a breakout saves a tremendous amount more than a breakout for these guys....and there is still flop potential for Golson and Doughty.[/quote]

I agree with the extending of Monty, but Doughty and Golston don't need to be extended before the end of the season. Campbell is probably more of a wait and see approach. If he succeeds we will definitly frontload his contract with a huge signing bonus.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;449676]Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?[/quote]
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

[URL="http://hamptonroads.com/node/150111"]NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/URL]

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
[B]"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant.[/B] "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;449691]Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

[URL="http://hamptonroads.com/node/150111"]NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/URL]

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
[B]"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant.[/B] "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."[/quote]

You are casting pearls before swine I'm afraid.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.

Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=irish;449698]If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.[/quote]
I agree.