Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

I bet a bunch of you that watched the draft remember this guy. He's the guy from the Army Academy that was drafted by the Lions and allowed to pursue his NFL career. One day before training camp, the Army pulled the rug out from under him and told him he had to report to active duty. Caleb Campbell even checked on this one week ago to make sure everything was good to go.

In my opinion, this is a bad move by the Army. Had you told him from day 1 that he has to serve -- I'm fine with that. But certainly don't wait till a day before training camp. That's just mean.

Campbell is handling it with a lot of class though. Here's a link.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3502211]ESPN - Army changes mind, says Campbell can't play in NFL until 2010 - NFL[/url]

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

There is always a way out, but he seems to be a bigger man than that. I am suprised that the Army did not "grandfather clause" him into the old regulation. Oh well, hopefully he stays alive and gets another shot in 2 years.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Its not very fair to the Lions either. They blow a draft pick on a guy they've been told can play if he makes the team, then that gets stripped away.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=Daseal;458905]Its not very fair to the Lions either. They blow a draft pick on a guy they've been told can play if he makes the team, then that gets stripped away.[/quote]


Possible compensatory next year? More than likely not. Did we get anying to compensate us for Sean? Will we? Similar situation where a team loses a player to non football related circumstances. Maybe this should be discussed by the league to compensate teams for these type of losses as well.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

I think the problem came up that others wanted to do something similar to this so they just said no to all. ITs a shame that he got so far only to have it reversed. I think there was a basket ball player that was told no he had to do his service first and this could have been what caused the Army to review its policy. It seem that all parties feel bad for him and his situation.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

This is a rediculous, asinine move by the Army. When he was drafted, there was a standing ovation and great stories reported on ESPN and other outlets. The potential positive PR from this is way, way, way more beneficial to the Army then sticking another 2LT in Iraq.

I think the policy was flawed in that it had to be opened to all athletes; hence, if a player made the professional badmitton tour then they could use the clause to get out of their active duty committment.

It was a good idea, because it allows athletes that are highly rated to consider the military academy as an option. As it stands now, anyone with even a long, longshot at the NFL would not consider the academy. Plus, the way the policy was stated, Campbell wasn't just getting out scott-free, he had to do recruiting details for several years, which could have had a great benefit to the Army. Imagine an NFL safety coming to your high school and pumping up the Army - great recruiting tool.

I think the way to fix the loophole would be to mandate that anyone that uses the "clause" to get out early for athletic reasons has to pay back the value of their education (valued at around $250K). This will keep it so that only the NFL/NBA/MLB types can afford to do so (and it will be very, very rare at that). The fact that they retro-actively screwed Campbell (and the Lions) is absolutely rediculous and pisses me off to no end. It's simply a case of the Army reacting to public outcry by a bunch of idiots who don't have a clue. It's what the Army does best...

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Sorry to play devils advocate. But you have to look at it from another perspective to understand this one.

Campbell went to college on the tax payers dime. The scholarships he was awarded paid for everything in college from housing to meals to tuition and books. And he also got a paycheck every month while in the program.

These scholarship programs can easily exceed 165,000 dollars. Campbell agreed to this WAY before the Lions came calling. I agree that Campbell is handling this with a lot of class.

But look at it this way, what if your congressmen misused government funds to the tune of 165,000? Would you want him to get a free ride?

The Army is simply protecting the investment made by you and me (the taxpayer).

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;458915]Sorry to play devils advocate. But you have to look at it from another perspective to understand this one.

Campbell went to college on the tax payers dime. The scholarships he was awarded paid for everything in college from housing to meals to tuition and books. And he also got a paycheck every month while in the program.

These scholarship programs can easily exceed 165,000 dollars. Campbell agreed to this WAY before the Lions came calling. I agree that Campbell is handling this with a lot of class.

But look at it this way, what if your congressmen misused government funds to the tune of 165,000? Would you want him to get a free ride?

The Army is simply protecting the investment made by you and me (the taxpayer).[/QUOTE]

From what I understand, Congressmen get paid about $165,000 per year. So, I would say our Congressmen misuse that kind of money every year, and they always get a free ride.

But, I like AJFC's idea: make them pay back the cost.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;458915]Sorry to play devils advocate. But you have to look at it from another perspective to understand this one.

Campbell went to college on the tax payers dime. The scholarships he was awarded paid for everything in college from housing to meals to tuition and books. And he also got a paycheck every month while in the program.

These scholarship programs can easily exceed 165,000 dollars. Campbell agreed to this WAY before the Lions came calling. I agree that Campbell is handling this with a lot of class.

But look at it this way, what if your congressmen misused government funds to the tune of 165,000? Would you want him to get a free ride?

The Army is simply protecting the investment made by you and me (the taxpayer).[/QUOTE]

As it previously read, the "out clause" still required Campbell to serve in the reserves and perform recruiting duties - so he's not "stealing" $165K as you alleged. IMO, an NFL player performing recruiting duties is VERY VALUABLE to the Army and the PR associated with it easily outweighs the money invested in him. $165K is like a 30 second commercial on TV. IMO, it's all about understanding the bigger picture for the Army.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Some things supercede football, gentlemen. Our armed forces need all the help they can get. The timing is unfortunate for Caleb and the Lions, but I'm not exactly crying for the Lions losing a pick in the draft when Campbell will be heading to active duty with an opportunity to contribute to our cause and possibly save the lives of his fellow soldiers at some point.

Some things are just more important than football.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Army need bodies and he signed up to serve. Still, it kinda sucks that they used him and didn't tell him from the get go he's not going to play pro ball.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;458932]Some things supercede football, gentlemen. Our armed forces need all the help they can get. The timing is unfortunate for Caleb and the Lions, but I'm not exactly crying for the Lions losing a pick in the draft when Campbell will be heading to active duty with an opportunity to contribute to our cause and possibly save the lives of his fellow soldiers at some point.

Some things are just more important than football.[/QUOTE]

Recruiting is a legitimate need of the Army and he would be serving in that capacity. In the end, that is a better way for him to serve the Army than another warm body in Iraq.

Plus, do you think he's going to be in Iraq next month? No, he's going to spend the better part of next year as a graduate assistant helping out the football team (this is not speculation, but fact), the next 6 months after than in Officer Basic Training and then maybe a few months after than in active duty. Not exactly a better use of his potential if you ask me.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

The thing about the other armed services is their respective academies don't have the same policy about athletes. If you want him to serve, fine. I have no issue with that, but don't tell the poor kid he can play football professionally and then yank him a way a day before training camp.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;458973]Recruiting is a legitimate need of the Army and he would be serving in that capacity. In the end, that is a better way for him to serve the Army than another warm body in Iraq.

Plus, do you think he's going to be in Iraq next month? No, he's going to spend the better part of next year as a graduate assistant helping out the football team (this is not speculation, but fact), the next 6 months after than in Officer Basic Training and then maybe a few months after than in active duty. Not exactly a better use of his potential if you ask me.[/quote]

OBC is now BOLC which is done in phases, as opposed to the old system. The majority of BOLC is completed while they are still in school. All that is left when they graduate is BOLC III. It is usually not that long. With the new system they can push LT's to their units faster. He might be in Iraq faster than you suggest. I cannot contest the "graduate assistant" thing that you spoke of (though I have never heard of it). On the other hand I was an OBC and a BOLC Instructor.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

With the way the Pentagon has been jerking around the troops and changing the terms of committment under the current administration its no surprise they'd jerk this kid around too.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

He was just on NFL radio. Guess what his assignment is this year. He's going to be a West Point football coach. Glad we're keeping this young man out of the NFL to coach football.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

I didn't know until today that the other service academy's don't have the same policy. From what I understand this ruling was by the DOD and not West Point.

Like the idea of having them pay back the money for their education. That would be a win/win situation.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

The Army downright used Campbell and the NFL for free publicity during the draft. If it was their intention to call him to active duty, they should have made that clear long before the draft.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;459076]The Army downright used Campbell and the NFL for free publicity during the draft. If it was their intention to call him to active duty, they should have made that clear long before the draft.[/QUOTE]

Talk about a PR backfire. What transpired is that it was a great PR story for Army/West Point and then the vocal minority of idiots complained how it wasn't fair (b/c they didn't understand the bigger picture) and the Army caved. Now it is a stinky mess...

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

WOW- this article sums it up PERFECTLY:

[url=http://deadspin.com/5028480/caleb-campbell-the-armys-loss-is-the-detroit-lions-legal-gain]Caleb Campbell: The Army's Loss Is The Detroit Lions' Legal Gain?[/url]


"The Army blew it. They implemented a policy that was designed to draw attention to the unique skills and talents of their servicemen and, in the process, make it easier to recruit soldiers to the Army by attracting positive publicity and media attention. The policy was enacted in 2005 because filling the ranks of a volunteer army was increasingly difficult. Caleb Campbell’s being selected by the Detroit Lions last April represented the fruition of that policy. Tens of millions of people were exposed to a guy who represented everything that was good about West Point and military service. Campbell’s engaging, humble, funny, smart, and a leader. I know from personal experience because I had the good fortune to train alongside him for the NFL Draft this past January-March. (Don't worry, I trained for comic relief.)

But you don’t have to believe me to understand what a success the Army policy had been. You only have to read the words of Army spokesperson Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb in an AP article last month:

The real advantage for the Army is just the amount of publicity we get," Edgecomb said in an AP story published on June 13. "When you think about it, who's the best recruiter for the Navy you can think of? David Robinson. He's called the Admiral, for goodness sake. The attention that we get in our primary demographic to have someone playing sports who's in the Army, that's where (we) in the Army see the advantage in this program.

About face, indeed.

In March I traveled to West Point and spent two days following Campbell around from one class to another. I saw how hard he worked in class, at school, and as a soldier. Most importantly I saw that while Campbell was a very skilled football player it represented a small part of his personality and an even smaller portion of the four years he’d spent training to be a solider in our nation's military. I talked to his classmates at West Point and heard how eager they were to have one of their own representing the Academy in the NFL. Now, with one bad decision reached the day before his dream became a reality, the Army has stripped away that opportunity from Caleb Campbell.

Campbell is not going to fight the change in this policy because he’s a soldier and he believes his first duty is to his superiors. That’s admirable. What isn’t admirable is when a superior officer screws up and forces subordinates to pay the price for their mistakes. And let’s face it, the Army screwed up. Royally. They pulled the proverbial rug out from under an existing policy after several parties had relied on their policy. If Campbell was a civilian and he sued in a civil court based on this fact pattern, he’d win. There's a decent chance that if the right judge heard his case in a civilian court, the judge would issue a temporary restraining order to stop the Army from changing their policy after everyone relied upon it to their detriment.

As a soldier Cambpell could have an actionable claim because he relied upon an existing Army policy. As a sophomore many schools encouraged Campbell to transfer and play football for them. But the Army, and Coach Bobby Ross in particular, persuaded Campbell that he should stay because graduating from West Point would mean something, be a true accomplishment. Unlike other athletes from football factories who graduated without having to put any effort into earning their degree, Campbell, a soldier of character, would earn his degree and be proud of his accomplishment on his graduation day.

Point being, the Army dangled this policy as a carrot to persuade Campbell that he could have the best of both worlds, a great education and, potentially if he was good enough, a career as a professional football player. After his sophomore year, Campbell could have left West Point and gone anywhere in the country without owing the Army anything. But he didn’t. Caleb Campbell kept his promise to the Army—sadly the Army didn’t keep their promise to him. So in my mind, Campbell has an actionable claim, but he’s too good of a soldier to call the Army on their duplicity.

But what about the Lions? The Army informed the NFL that Campbell was eligible to play this fall in 2008. It’s why the Lions drafted him. Campbell himself knew there was skepticism from NFL teams about his eligibility and that’s why he had the Army notify teams of their existing policy. Now, interestingly, the Detroit Lions actually have a legal claim against the United States Army rooted in contract law. The Lions could sue the Army arguing that the Army is breaching their promise that Campbell was eligible to be drafted. After all, draft picks have a value and if they couldn’t draft Campbell to play football the Lions could have used their 7th round pick to take any other college player in the country. Not only has the Army pulled the rug out from underneath Campbell, but they’ve also screwed the Lions in the process.

Now, the Lions aren’t likely to sue the Army over Campbell because the NFL is patriotic. And patriotism in the NFL’s mind means blindly accepting anything that the Army does — be that claiming that Pat Tillman was the victim of terrorists or allowing one of their lawfully drafted players to be sent to war. To do otherwise would be bad publicity.

So now the Army has created a double storm for itself, they’re damned in both directions, fighting a two front war. They’ve managed to anger everyone without solving any actual problem. The reality is Campbell’s service as an individual soldier is much more valuable from a public relations perspective than it is from a soldiering one. You and I can clearly see that. But we aren’t Caleb Campbell’s superiors. Ultimately Caleb Campbell is a soldier. And, unfortunately for him, a soldier doesn’t get to choose which orders to follow."

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

From the posted article above: "Campbell is not going to fight the change in this policy because he’s a soldier and he believes his first duty is to his superiors."

I'd say that about sums the whole thing up.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;459125]From the posted article above: "Campbell is not going to fight the change in this policy because he’s a soldier and he believes his first duty is to his superiors."

I'd say that about sums the whole thing up.[/QUOTE]

The only way the military is able to function is by getting kids to buy into ideas that no sane adult would even consider.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=irish;459177]The only way the military is able to function is by getting kids to buy into ideas that no sane adult would even consider.[/QUOTE]

So, everyone in the military is either a kid, or an insane adult.

Good to have you back, irish!

:benched:

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=irish;459177]The only way the military is able to function is by getting kids to buy into ideas that no sane adult would even consider.[/QUOTE]

That is beyond insulting to those that serve our country and protect your whiny ass at the risk of their own lives.

I cannot begin to express how angry this comment makes me.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=irish;459177]The only way the military is able to function is by getting kids to buy into ideas that no sane adult would even consider.[/quote]

I'm ashamed to share an Irish heritage with an ignorant ass like you. (unless you're just some Notre Dame fan)

You are either grossly uninformed about the military or just immature.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Not sure if this has been said, but it's worth pointing out: He's not going to Iraq or Afghanistan, he's going back to West Point to coach football. I have a hard time getting too worked up over this when more "anonymous" servicmembers are being killed every day.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;458925]From what I understand, Congressmen get paid about $165,000 per year. So, I would say our Congressmen misuse that kind of money every year, and they always get a free ride.

But, I like AJFC's idea: make them pay back the cost.[/quote]
Congressmen are elected and if the people keep electing people who waist our money then its the peoples fault!!

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;459087]WOW- this article sums it up PERFECTLY:

[URL="http://deadspin.com/5028480/caleb-campbell-the-armys-loss-is-the-detroit-lions-legal-gain"]Caleb Campbell: The Army's Loss Is The Detroit Lions' Legal Gain?[/URL]


"The Army blew it. They implemented a policy that was designed to draw attention to the unique skills and talents of their servicemen and, in the process, make it easier to recruit soldiers to the Army by attracting positive publicity and media attention. The policy was enacted in 2005 because filling the ranks of a volunteer army was increasingly difficult. Caleb Campbell’s being selected by the Detroit Lions last April represented the fruition of that policy. Tens of millions of people were exposed to a guy who represented everything that was good about West Point and military service. Campbell’s engaging, humble, funny, smart, and a leader. I know from personal experience because I had the good fortune to train alongside him for the NFL Draft this past January-March. (Don't worry, I trained for comic relief.)

But you don’t have to believe me to understand what a success the Army policy had been. You only have to read the words of Army spokesperson Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb in an AP article last month:

The real advantage for the Army is just the amount of publicity we get," Edgecomb said in an AP story published on June 13. "When you think about it, who's the best recruiter for the Navy you can think of? David Robinson. He's called the Admiral, for goodness sake. The attention that we get in our primary demographic to have someone playing sports who's in the Army, that's where (we) in the Army see the advantage in this program.

About face, indeed.

In March I traveled to West Point and spent two days following Campbell around from one class to another. I saw how hard he worked in class, at school, and as a soldier. Most importantly I saw that while Campbell was a very skilled football player it represented a small part of his personality and an even smaller portion of the four years he’d spent training to be a solider in our nation's military. I talked to his classmates at West Point and heard how eager they were to have one of their own representing the Academy in the NFL. Now, with one bad decision reached the day before his dream became a reality, the Army has stripped away that opportunity from Caleb Campbell.

Campbell is not going to fight the change in this policy because he’s a soldier and he believes his first duty is to his superiors. That’s admirable. What isn’t admirable is when a superior officer screws up and forces subordinates to pay the price for their mistakes. And let’s face it, the Army screwed up. Royally. They pulled the proverbial rug out from under an existing policy after several parties had relied on their policy. If Campbell was a civilian and he sued in a civil court based on this fact pattern, he’d win. There's a decent chance that if the right judge heard his case in a civilian court, the judge would issue a temporary restraining order to stop the Army from changing their policy after everyone relied upon it to their detriment.

As a soldier Cambpell could have an actionable claim because he relied upon an existing Army policy. As a sophomore many schools encouraged Campbell to transfer and play football for them. But the Army, and Coach Bobby Ross in particular, persuaded Campbell that he should stay because graduating from West Point would mean something, be a true accomplishment. Unlike other athletes from football factories who graduated without having to put any effort into earning their degree, Campbell, a soldier of character, would earn his degree and be proud of his accomplishment on his graduation day.

Point being, the Army dangled this policy as a carrot to persuade Campbell that he could have the best of both worlds, a great education and, potentially if he was good enough, a career as a professional football player. After his sophomore year, Campbell could have left West Point and gone anywhere in the country without owing the Army anything. But he didn’t. Caleb Campbell kept his promise to the Army—sadly the Army didn’t keep their promise to him. So in my mind, Campbell has an actionable claim, but he’s too good of a soldier to call the Army on their duplicity.

But what about the Lions? The Army informed the NFL that Campbell was eligible to play this fall in 2008. It’s why the Lions drafted him. Campbell himself knew there was skepticism from NFL teams about his eligibility and that’s why he had the Army notify teams of their existing policy. Now, interestingly, the Detroit Lions actually have a legal claim against the United States Army rooted in contract law. The Lions could sue the Army arguing that the Army is breaching their promise that Campbell was eligible to be drafted. After all, draft picks have a value and if they couldn’t draft Campbell to play football the Lions could have used their 7th round pick to take any other college player in the country. Not only has the Army pulled the rug out from underneath Campbell, but they’ve also screwed the Lions in the process.

Now, the Lions aren’t likely to sue the Army over Campbell because the NFL is patriotic. And patriotism in the NFL’s mind means blindly accepting anything that the Army does — be that claiming that Pat Tillman was the victim of terrorists or allowing one of their lawfully drafted players to be sent to war. To do otherwise would be bad publicity.

So now the Army has created a double storm for itself, they’re damned in both directions, fighting a two front war. They’ve managed to anger everyone without solving any actual problem. The reality is Campbell’s service as an individual soldier is much more valuable from a public relations perspective than it is from a soldiering one. You and I can clearly see that. But we aren’t Caleb Campbell’s superiors. Ultimately Caleb Campbell is a soldier. And, unfortunately for him, a soldier doesn’t get to choose which orders to follow."[/quote]
This article read as a person with an issues with the Goverment, war etc... and used the Campbell story to take jabs at them.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

Whether you like this or not. You can't deny that Campbell got shafted! One day before camp!?!?!? ONE FREAKIN DAY BEFORE CAMP!!!!

DAYUM!!! The army could at least use some freakin lubrication as they're shafting him!!!

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;459200]Congressmen are elected and if the people keep electing people who waist our money then its the peoples fault!![/QUOTE]

Too true.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;459185]That is beyond insulting to those that serve our country and protect your whiny ass at the risk of their own lives.

I cannot begin to express how angry this comment makes me.[/quote]


It's okay, JR. The concept of "Service Before Self" is alien to some people.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

While it does suck it happened a day before camp, he made a commitment when he went to West Point to serve his country. Politics aside, he made a commitment. He's not going to bitch about it because it makes him look bad. He's going to serve his time and come home to play. Stay safe Caleb. I wish you well and look forward to seeing you play in 2 years.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5;459178]So, everyone in the military is either a kid, or an insane adult.

Good to have you back, irish!

:benched:[/QUOTE]

Most of the enlisted people I see are young. All I'm saying is its amazing what testosterone fueled young men will do.

Campbell was not trying to "get out" of his contract with the Army. He was trying to fullfill it in a different way that would have benefitted the Army and him but the military is not know for its flexibility so in reality he should have known this was never going to happen. Last time I checked contracts were two way streets and CC was ready (and still is) ready to hold up his end, unfortunately the Army didnt live up to their end of the bargain when they told him he could play.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

What I would like to know is what happened to the minor league pitcher who took advantage of this rule before Caleb Campbell?

During the E:60 piece about Campbell an Army officer referenced the baseball player who I believe pitched in the Mariners system. He said that there was a great write up about him in some newspaper and the officer said, "You can't buy that kind of publicity" and something to the effect of "That does a lot more for the Army than another soldier would." So, it's not like the rule was made for Campbell. The officer stated that the same offer extended to people who had a shot at American Idol, as well.

Also, Campbell would have served as a recruiter for the Army while he was in the NFL, so it's not like he was going to totally blow off his duty to this country. This doesn't that look that great for the Army and will prevent any player with NFL dreams from attending West Point.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=jdlea;459258]What I would like to know is what happened to the minor league pitcher who took advantage of this rule before Caleb Campbell?

During the E:60 piece about Campbell an Army officer referenced the baseball player who I believe pitched in the Mariners system. He said that there was a great write up about him in some newspaper and the officer said, "You can't buy that kind of publicity" and something to the effect of "That does a lot more for the Army than another soldier would." So, it's not like the rule was made for Campbell. The officer stated that the same offer extended to people who had a shot at American Idol, as well.

Also, Campbell would have served as a recruiter for the Army while he was in the NFL, so it's not like he was going to totally blow off his duty to this country. This doesn't that look that great for the Army and will prevent any player with NFL dreams from attending West Point.[/quote]


Most people that go to West Point do not have aspirations of playing professional sports in the 1st place. Obviously playing sports was at least at one time secondary to his aspirations of serving his country.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=Angry;459264]Most people that go to West Point do not have aspirations of playing professional sports in the 1st place. Obviously playing sports was at least at one time secondary to his aspirations of serving his country.[/QUOTE]

I'm aware of that, but I'm just saying, that's going to make guys shy away.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[quote=jdlea;459265]I'm aware of that, but I'm just saying, that's going to make guys shy away.[/quote]


They were shying away well before this. This does make thing worse though.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;459185]That is beyond insulting to those that serve our country and protect your whiny ass at the risk of their own lives.

I cannot begin to express how angry this comment makes me.[/QUOTE]

I think 8 years in the Army gives me the right to whine. I used my ROTC scolarship to pay for college and the Army used me to pay it back. All I can say is one of the happiest days of my life was when I bid the Army farewell after fulfilling my contract and being honorably discharged.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=irish;459276]I think 8 years in the Army gives me the right to whine. I used my ROTC scolarship to pay for college and the Army used me to pay it back. All I can say is one of the happiest days of my life was when I bid the Army farewell after fulfilling my contract and being honorably discharged.[/QUOTE]

I was unaware of your military experience and agree that it provides you with a different insight. Because the military is, in part, a bureaucratic nightmare, I am also aware that many leave the services feeling frustrated, angry and bitter. The feelings and experiences of individuals like yourself, however, does not nullify or discredit the real sacrifices made by those who chose to remain in the service.

As someone who has not served, I have the utmost respect for those who have done so. My father was career military and served in two wars (Korea and Vietnam) both as an enlisted man (Korea) and officer (Vietnam). He, like many young men, initially joined as a way out of their particular circumstances but remained out of a sense of duty and self-sacrifice. During his time in Vietnam, I still remember waking up and regularly wondering if my father was alive (I was 5-6). I remember my friend when he found out his father would [I]not [/I] be coming home. During my youth, most of my friends were military brats whose parents were lifers. All of these adults, without exception – both enlisted and commissioned, demonstrated a sense of self sacrifice and duty to others that made a deep impression on me.

To me, your initial comment seemed insulting to these people and to their choices. On its face, it still seems that way to me. You paint your disrespect with a broad brush and it appeared to cover many people for whom I have a deep and abiding respect.

Re: Caleb Campbell -- No longer allowed to play.
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;459299]I was unaware of your military experience and agree that it provides you with a different insight. Because the military is, in part, a bureaucratic nightmare, I am also aware that many leave the services feeling frustrated, angry and bitter. The feelings and experiences of individuals like yourself, however, does not nullify or discredit the real sacrifices made by those who chose to remain in the service.

As someone who has not served, I have the utmost respect for those who have done so. My father was career military and served in two wars (Korea and Vietnam) both as an enlisted man (Korea) and officer (Vietnam). He, like many young men, initially joined as a way out of their particular circumstances but remained out of a sense of duty and self-sacrifice. During his time in Vietnam, I still remember waking up and regularly wondering if my father was alive (I was 5-6). I remember my friend when he found out his father would [I]not [/I] be coming home. During my youth, most of my friends were military brats whose parents were lifers. All of these adults, without exception – both enlisted and commissioned, demonstrated a sense of self sacrifice and duty to others that made a deep impression on me.

To me, your initial comment seemed insulting to these people and to their choices. On its face, it still seems that way to me. You paint your disrespect with a broad brush and it appeared to cover many people for whom I have a deep and abiding respect.[/QUOTE]

My army buddies & I used to laugh at guys like you, the kind that were so gung ho and into the military but yet couldnt find the time or balls to serve. Maybe next time you should think before you paint with a broad brush. I did not totally hate my time in the army mostly because it showed me where I did not want to be and how I did not want to end up. I used to recommend the military to anyone unsure of what to do with their life but now with the way the military does not honor its end of the contract by changing the rules as they go without regard for the personal lives that have chosen to serve I no longer recommend it as an option because once you are in you cant get out.