Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Jim Zorn said rookie WR Malcolm Kelly will remain in Florida today after having arthroscopic knee surgery Monday and admitted that the team's diagnosis that he will miss two weeks after getting 'scoped was "ambitious." Kelly and Devin Thomas, who remains out with a hamstring injury, were labeled as a bit brittle in college by some scouts I've spoken to, and Zorn said today that both showed up for camp in less-than-stellar shape.

[B]"He wasn't in condition to go through a training camp like this," Zorn said of Kelly. "He really wasn't."[/B]

link: [url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/zorn_jabs_the_rookie_wrs_wade.html]Zorn Jabs Rookie WRs; Wade, Heyer Out 2 Weeks - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Yeah, I read that article. I was like, boy, is Zorn a breath of fresh air. He seems to be in charge without being overbearing.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Not the way for these guys to begin their NFL careers. We just have to wait and see and remain optimistic.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I almost posted this in a new thread but put the link in the zorn/offense thread. It's worthy of a thread itself if for no other reason to demonstrate the difference between he & Gibbs.

I like it (not that I don't love Joe!), these guys need to be called out & realize that their spot isn't guaranteed. The slower they progress the longer it will take for them to put up the kind of #s that could lead to a long-term deal. Not to mention, they both had a really good chance at starting in week 1 or playing in multiple wr sets.

The injuries are disappointing, though I'm still hoping at least one of them can contribute in week 1. Looks like Davis is on track to get the most pt from the rookie class, along w/Brooks.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I think the main thing that Zorn is trying to impress upon the rookies is that, look, the NFL is hard enough. Why not be in shape when you get here. On top of that, the lack of conditioning contributes even more to the possibility of getting injured and putting you further behind.

I like his tone.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I like it. If you don't have time to take care of yourself then we don't have [playing] time for you. Get in shape and let's go.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

We had a talented WR that had a great college career but was always getting injured...Taylor Jacobs.
I hope these two guys do not follow in his footsteps.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Excellent article imo

Zorn sounds like his isnt screwing around but it doesnt sound like he's being an ass either.

I'm a little surprised to hear Kelly and Thomas couldnt pass the physical test.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Good stuff from Zorn--he properly called the rooks out, not tearing them down but challenging them. And I like that Zorn still has some of his playing-days confidence. You believe him when he says he'd like to run the wind sprints, just for pride.

But the point is, he's in charge and it's all about getting better as a TEAM. I don't doubt that JG made the same points behind close doors, but Zorn's style is refreshing at this point.

But it's all about wins, and not in the preseason. JG won 3 Lombardis and took us to the playoffs 2 out of 4. Warm-fuzzies mean little in this league without wins. (Not that anyone here is arguing otherwise. And I think Zorn would be the last guy to deny this. But it bears mentioning.)

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I like Zorn's candor but let's face it, there are probably a ton of rookies that don't show up ready to face a NFL training camp. Part of the learning curve of the NFL is getting in top physical condition and alot of that involves working on your own during the offseason to ensure that.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Ill remain optimistic as well, and give the more than one season as well for the adjustment .. but man, please become game changers Thomas and Kelly, we need you!

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

The funny thing is that out of the three picks in the second round, the one that people were not crazy about (Davis), turned out to be the better player...so far. I really hope these wideouts get to contribute this season.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Well at least they won't have big heads about how great they are--most likely it'll light a fire under them.

In any event, let's take all these injuries SLOW. Just be ready when the real games begin--don't want any of those dreaded "nagging" injuries that seemed constant last year. Ugh!

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I like the honesty, givem hell, this is the NFL!

Nice to hear Thrash is our #3 guy to start the season, I look for him to make big contributions to this offense and teams!

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Some follow up to this story:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/devin_thomas_striving_for_bett.html]Thomas Will Focus on Better Conditioning - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

They have a job to do. When you are at work your boss will call you out, if you aren't performing up to standards. Zorn is the boss!! Shape up!

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

The bright side of this is that we have a long preseason w/an extra game, so these guys have extra time to recover. If Thomas comes back for the 3rd preseason game & is ok, he'll have a few weeks to get back in the groove. That may not mean he'll be ready to play in game 1, but at least he'll have the benefit of working in camp for a while.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

To me there is simply no excuse for not being in shape if you're a professional athlete. It's your job to stay in shape pretty much year around. But to be honest, I wasn't expecting much out of these guys this year because rookie wr's always take time learning the NFL game. I remember last year Calvin Johnson had conditioning problems in camp.

On a side note I'm really not for calling guys out in the media and that's one thing I loved about Joe Gibbs. But everyone has their own style and the media must love Zorn cause he'll just say whatever is on his mind.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I don't think i've mentioned this but as in a previous post i mentioned how it seems like the players are really having fun and enjoy playing for JZ.

On the other hand, he has had the toughest training camp since maybe Marty. Under Gibbs, let's face it, they had pretty much a breeze. Not saying it's right or wrong, but i think i heard it was 8 two a days in a row. For being known as a players coach, so far, Zorn has really made these guys work. I like the change.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

This is damn good for them. First, if they came in at top shape, they could have avoided possible hammy injuries. Plus, just the fact of Zorn calling them out will put them in check and make them realize they are handed nothing, it must be earned. I like the move by Zorn.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Its better to hear it from your coach than from the fans and media. How many times did I hear bad things about B Lloyd on this board?

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I don't think we can honestly expect much from Kelly or Thomas until after week 4. Most rookie WRs aren't very good their first year until the end of the season. I hope I am wrong but I would expect big season from either of them.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;461846]I like the honesty, givem hell, this is the NFL!

Nice to hear Thrash is our #3 guy to start the season, I look for him to make big contributions to this offense and teams![/QUOTE]

couldnt disagree with you more,I love Thrash but I'm very dissapointed he's our # 3 receiver,we should have been able to do better than him by now.What happened to Mix,did he play the other night?

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;461911]couldnt disagree with you more,I love Thrash but I'm very dissapointed he's our # 3 receiver,we should have been able to do better than him by now.What happened to Mix,did he play the other night?[/QUOTE]

I don't think he played, hamstring. That's why you saw guys like Maurice "My Main" Mann and Billy McMullen getting the ball.

I think that for now, through injuries mainly, Thrash has earned the #3 spot but I expect he'll be down to 4th or 5th on the depth chart by week 5 if not soone.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Mix was nursing an injury. I believe he will be ready this weekend. I hope Mix makes the team. If we were to keep 6 receivers, I hope Mix is in the mix.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I'm seriously, the more I read and hear from Zorn the more I like this guy. He challenged the rooks w/o lowering expectations, in fact his comments seemed to raise expectations. I'm not sure if Zorn is very smart or just has great instincts (or maybe both) but he seems to have the right tone for each circumstance.

Realistically, I wouldn't have expected the rook WR's to start. Moss and ARE have too much experience to not start and both guys have had awesome preseason (according to several of you observers and other guys too). Thrash has had sure hands in the past as well so I'm not concerned about him as #3. But I still think Thomas and Kelly will start to shine in the 2nd half of the season.

Oh yeah, I still bet Fred D. will have a bigger impact than the two WR - dude has hands and he can move almost like a WR. I'm pumped to see this kid flying around opposite Cooley.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I'm not sure this means much.

Rookie WRs rarely make a big impact in year 1 (perhaps this conditioning issue is part of the reason why). I wasn't expecting much out of either of these guys in the early going.

I'd prefer that Zorn come down on the players in practice, in the locker room, in front of his teammates, in front of other coaches, etcetera. I don't need to see him doing it in the media. Not sure what that accomplishes (anybody?). But in the end, I guess if you're not mentally tough enough to handle media issues like this with class, you're probably not mentally tough enough to succeed in the NFL.

So whatever. These aren't the droids you're looking for, move along.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

He probably should have added "This is a gamble the front office and coaching staff knew, or should have known, it was taking when we drafted a WR several consider a one-year wonder, and another whose stock dropped quite a bit after he showed up to a predraft workout unprepared and completely tanked his 40 yard dash."

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I think this whole situation makes me realize that we did not get better at the WR position, despite drafting two WRs in the second round. As ppl stated during the pre-draft boards that getting a rookie wideout would not solve the WR problems, since rooke wideouts cannot contribute right away. All we did with the draft is to get players for the future...which is fine but we want to go back to the playoffs this season and we're not in rebuilding mode.

My guess is that the team has gambled on a couple of things: Moss/ARE being healthy, the o-line staying healthy to protect JC, and JZ's offense being more productive than Gibbs'. You can also throw in there the hope that a player like Anthony Mix can step up. Because I don't think that in the short term (upcoming season) our WR situation is the same as last season's.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

If Calvin Johnson can struggle as rookie.............cuz that dude was one of the sickest wr I have ever seen in college. Big, fast and awesome hands and he reportedly had trouble with the stamina required at the next level.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I love what JZ is doing. He's keeping the pressure on making it clear that these 2 guys haven't earned anything and that much more is expected of them than they can produce right now. I like JZ's approach. He's cool and right to the point.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[quote=SmootSmack;461916]I don't think he played, hamstring. That's why you saw guys like Maurice "My Main" Mann and Billy McMullen getting the ball.

I think that for now, through injuries mainly, Thrash has earned the #3 spot but I expect he'll be down to 4th or 5th on the depth chart by week 5 if not soone.[/quote]

props to Billy McMullen for that nice catch from Brennan.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;461927]props to Billy McMullen for that nice catch from Brennan.[/QUOTE]

I second that,I dont know which was better,the throw or the great over the head catch,you rarely see that kind of catch,every time I see a catch like that it reminds me of Dave Casper

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[quote=htownskinfan;461911]couldnt disagree with you more,I love Thrash but I'm very dissapointed he's our # 3 receiver,we should have been able to do better than him by now.What happened to Mix,did he play the other night?[/quote]

But the difference is Thrash is the #3 reciever because of how impressive he's been this offseason. It's not out of spite that he has the job but rather hard work and execution.

The best way to describe is something the Madden heads might be able to understand. Before a play on Madden you can always see the routes and given that a lot of Madden players put in the highest rated players chances are you will be starting Kelly and/or Thomas over Thrash. However what if you put in one of the rookies and on about 1 in every 3 plays they ran the wrong route leading the QB to throw to where they thought he was going to be? Like say you need Thomas or Kelly to run an out and they run an in or a streak, maybe even a deep comeback. How comfortable would be knowing that 33% of the time the recievers are going to run the wrong route?

This is the main reason a lot of coaches don't start rookie recievers over veterans. Sure it's great to have better players in but if they can't execute what you're trying to run then you're better off having someone in who knows and understands the offense which in this case is a pretty good description of Thrash.

Reciever is a difficult position and before they can put their 4.3 speed or height advantage to use they have to learn the nuances of the game. Otherwise they might as well be running a 4.9 with a 20 inch vertical. If you're having trouble beating press coverage while trying to read the defense then you're not going to be an effective reciever.

Now add to the fact that Kelly and Thomas have missed a go amount of time in traing camp and you have good reason for not starting them around the time the season begins. I know that a lot of us want them to come in and set the world on fire but the fact is that a lot of Recievers need time to adjust to the NFL.

But again in the midst of all this remember, Thrash is having a great offseason and thats probably the main reason Thrash is behing Moss and ARE on the depth chart. If anything the fact that the rookies are struggling has very little to do at this point with Thrash earning a starting job.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

I don't get this at all. They both fail their conditioning test but they are still doing 2-a-day practices and both get hurt. Not very smart from the coaching staff if you ask me.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[QUOTE=davy;461996]I don't get this at all. They both fail their conditioning test but they are still doing 2-a-day practices and both get hurt. Not very smart from the coaching staff if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

If it makes you feel any better, I read somewhere that Fred Smoot has never passed a conditioning test as a Redskin

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

[quote=davy;461996]I don't get this at all. They both fail their conditioning test but they are still doing 2-a-day practices and both get hurt. Not very smart from the coaching staff if you ask me.[/quote]

What are you supposed to do? Hold them out of practice or take it easy on them until they pass the test, and basically reward them for not passing it?

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

On the flip side Fred Davis looked pretty good Sun. night.

Re: Zorn with some tough love for the Redskins rookie WRs
 

Jim Zorn is the man. I like his approach. I like letting it be known he isn't satisfied with something. Hopefully he gets some wins this year so the FO doesn't just fire him after one year.

I think the wideouts couldn't have been fully prepared for camp, but you don't hear about alot of other rookies being poorly conditioned. Hopefully these guys can get up to speed ASAP. They are hurting themselves and the team.