play calling a huge concern.
 

sooooo many times... run on first then second ... or pass on first then run ...

but most of all ..... 3rd and 6 ... we throw a 4 yard pass into a sure tackle...

on every 3rd down pass play before the last 2 minutes and including them.

this team is in REAL trouble here if we can't generate offense thru the air & call the right plays ...

by the way the giants wouldnt have scored a TD if it wasnt handed to them on that HORRIBLY BULLSHIT DEF. PASS INTERFERENCE CALL...

fuck outta here he pushed smoot to the ground.... but we got called.

refs rode the giants nuts all night...

pathetic... just like our pass offense & line.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

No offense, but couldn't you have merged this with all the other "We sucked tonight" threads?

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

i wanted to focus on play-calling....

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

the problem was we didn't pass enough until it was obvious we had to. The Giants new exactly what type of play was being called every time because I sure did. I would have liked to see 1 or 2 deep play actions on first or second down but they never came.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

not only that, when we did run, 60% of the time it was right up the middle...

only one counter-trey for the supposed "keep our running game the same" offense...
no tosses .....
maybe one stretch run, but loads of play action stretch plays .... not enough pulling guards...

passing -

not enogh slants or quick throws to set up the other patterns we were trying to run....... with an obviously nervous JC ... still uncomfortble with the offense...

he said " i dont think people expected us to come out tonight and run the seattle seahawks offense... you know they had it a few mopre years than us and we have to keep working"

and w.ever else ...

im not going to give up ... at all on any of our team... we do need to keep working.... and working hard..


oh yea and bend but dont break defense was the only thing about the game that was consistent.

still think we play to much of a soft zone deep free saftey 20 yards off the ball

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Zorn should've adjusted to the running game after it was obvious that our o-line was getting manhandled by the giants d-line. i dunno why he insisted on passing the ball first. it was only later when our running game was taking off that we were able to make passes (including that bomb to moss that should've been a TD had he stayed in his route).

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Didn't our QB look like a deer in the headlight! JC sucked!

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=RedskinPete;472725]Didn't our QB look like a deer in the headlight! JC sucked![/quote]

That's EXACTLY what I saw with JC on the sidelines! Confused!!! Maybe he can't make that quick slant pass and quick reads needed for this Zorn offense? But seriously, if it's going to take half the season for this offense to come together and produce then you can already call it a year. In the NFC East, you don't have much leeway!!!

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Ol ,,, OL ,,,,OL ,,,we should have focused on OL and DL this offseason< the past few >. We knew we were going to run a new offense , we should have used F/a or the draft to bring in a starter . Better hope JC picks up the offense very quickly and that the OL picks up the intensity . As far as Cooley , Zorn should have himhit that blocking sled for one hour after practice every day this week ,,,, he sucked last night ,,, a gutless effort !!

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

There were four straight series in the second half in which we ran on first and second down to no effect, when it was clear we needed to give Campbell a little breathing room within which to work. That was a mistake. Even Madden commented on how we weren't helping JC by putting him in these 3rd and 6 situations consistently.

That was really the game. The defense got it together and did what it had to, but we couldn't move the ball on those initial critical second half possessions.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

seemed to me that Zorn gave up with about 5 mins to go and just kept them in a huddle and running the ball even though we were down 2 scores. I am really frustrated at that. I was screaming at the tv for them to hurry up but there was no sense of urgency at all. Very frustrating to watch

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

You can't expect Cooley to block Tuck one on one. Ladell Betts is worhtless. How bout the rock waking the team up!!!! THE ROCK!!!! All is not lost. Zorn your behind might get fired.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=djnemo65;472739]There were four straight series in the second half in which we ran on first and second down to no effect, when it was clear we needed to give Campbell a little breathing room within which to work. That was a mistake. Even Madden commented on how we weren't helping JC by putting him in these 3rd and 6 situations consistently.

That was really the game. The defense got it together and did what it had to, but we couldn't move the ball on those initial critical second half possessions.[/quote]

I think it may be like that pretty often for the first few weeks of the season. Not running to no effect, but simply running. Zorn has said since February that he is going to lean heavily on the running game early on.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

our pass blocking was down right brutal. hence, all the running

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=rstone1979;472740]seemed to me that Zorn gave up with about 5 mins to go and just kept them in a huddle and running the ball even though we were down 2 scores. I am really frustrated at that. I was screaming at the tv for them to hurry up but there was no sense of urgency at all. Very frustrating to watch[/quote]

I agree with you. That four minute offense of zorn's just absolutely sucks! Everything else you could argue as the "New Offense" "New Coach" "New System", but Zorn calling posts and slants mixed in with a few runs up the gut when you have to get two scores in five minutes is just dumb. I mean, not even spurrier did that! And he freakin sucked!

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Just an observation, but did anyone notice how close Portis was lined up to the LOS last night? As I rack my brain I'm thinking that it is probably a similar depth to where Alexander used to line up in Seattle, but certainly a few yards closer than Portis was lined up in previous years. He was starting from basically fullback depth. All the runs were quick hitters and when Jason spun Portis was right there, basically looked like fullback dive relationships. Maybe it was because they couldn't block anyone (who thought it would be a good idea to have Cooley trying to reach Kiwanuka and Tuck to cut off the backside? He was totally overmatched trying to make those plays), but it just looked strange to my eye. No stretch plays or very few counter actions (again, perhaps product of blocking) but that was not the same run game as in previous years, no matter what lip service we got in the offseason or from John Madden last night.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

I really think it's premature to blame the playcalling as I think the bigger problem is JC's obvious lack of comfort working in this offense.

The one thing coaching related that I did have a problem with was the lack of any sort of urgency when the clock got to 4 minutes and under. Where was the hurry up??

And Madden was right at the end, we should have attempted a FG and then went for the onsides kick. It really was our only shot at somehow pulling off a win.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

conservative, conservative...you know what? I know alot of people will put this on campbell...but i dont think zorns play calling ever gave him a chance, and i thought gibbs was bad....geez
Props to the defense coming together the second half. They definitely gave us the opportunity.
blache gest one thumbs up
zorn=spurrier 2.0

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=budw38;472729]Ol ,,, OL ,,,,OL ,,,we should have focused on OL and DL this offseason< the past few >. [b]We knew we were going to run a new offense , we should have used F/a or the draft to bring in a starter.[/b] Better hope JC picks up the offense very quickly and that the OL picks up the intensity . As far as Cooley , Zorn should have himhit that blocking sled for one hour after practice every day this week ,,,, he sucked last night ,,, a gutless effort !![/quote]

2 questions, why would we just bring in a starter since, as you stated, 'we knew we were going to run a new offense' and who would you have replaced on the OL?

In your opinion which individual O-Lineman played the worst last night? I have mine based on what I saw but I want to hear what others think.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472773]I really think it's premature to blame the playcalling as I think the bigger problem is JC's obvious lack of comfort working in this offense.

The one thing coaching related that I did have a problem with was the lack of any sort of urgency when the clock got to 4 minutes and under. Where was the hurry up??

And Madden was right at the end, we should have attempted a FG and then went for the onsides kick. It really was our only shot at somehow pulling off a win.[/quote]

Both products of inexperience from the head coach. Learning experience for him hopefully. But learning experiences mean that it will take time to get better. And the Redskins go about reinventing the wheel on offense yet again. I cannot help thinking it did not have to be this way.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472782]2 questions, why would we just bring in a starter since, as you stated, 'we knew we were going to run a new offense' and who would you have replaced on the OL?

In your opinion which individual O-Lineman played the worst last night? I have mine based on what I saw but I want to hear what others think.[/quote]

Which o-lineman played well last night? Still, the worst blocks I remember were the ones where Chris Cooley was trying to reach one of the DEs to cut off the backside. He was beaten repeatedly trying to do that and I don't know why he wouldn't have gotten some help from the tackles to at least chip the end and slow him down a bit. That is something they are going to have to look at when the watch the film IMO, that is not a winning strategy. Plus the D-Line looked like they were getting off the ball quicker than the O-Line on several occasions. I realize that it is a road game and there is crowd noise, but it seems to me that teams have done a good job of picking up on Campbell's cadence for several years now. That seems like something to work on as well.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

The question is...does zorns offense give jason a chance to succeed? If jason doesnt have time, or open receievers or the right plays called...there is little hope of him looking comfortable. I could be wayyy off base, maybe zorn is a genius in the making who knows? But right now that ws some of the worst play calling, and game management i have EVER seen...including the dark "spurrier" days

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

The o line is old and slow, JC is too slow to decide and release the ball. Zorn's hands are tied when it comes to play calling because he doesnt have much to work with.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;472787]Which o-lineman played well last night? Still, the worst blocks I remember were the ones where Chris Cooley was trying to reach one of the DEs to cut off the backside. He was beaten repeatedly trying to do that and I don't know why he wouldn't have gotten some help from the tackles to at least chip the end and slow him down a bit. That is something they are going to have to look at when the watch the film IMO, that is not a winning strategy. Plus the D-Line looked like they were getting off the ball quicker than the O-Line on several occasions. I realize that it is a road game and there is crowd noise, but it seems to me that teams have done a good job of picking up on Campbell's cadence for several years now. That seems like something to work on as well.[/quote]

I don't think anyone played particularly well, but Kendall and, other than the 3rd and 1 play, Thomas held their own pretty well. Yeah, Cooley was flat out terrible blocking last night. I know it was against Tuck, but you've got to get the man lined up opposite of you.

To me the worst OL was Rabach. He got no push in the running game, got blown past at least once in the passing game and either JC was a beat early or he was a beat slow but I swear JC was leaning backwards on 70% of the snaps before he got the ball.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472793]The question is...does zorns offense give jason a chance to succeed? If jason doesnt have time, or open receievers or the right plays called...there is little hope of him looking comfortable. I could be wayyy off base, maybe zorn is a genius in the making who knows? But right now that ws some of the worst play calling, and game management i have EVER seen...including the dark "spurrier" days[/quote]

Zorn sucked last night, Campbell sucked last night, and the two are not unrelated. Clearly Zorn is not Mike Holmgren (hell, if this continues Danny might just back the truck up, skip the middle man, and bring Holmgren to DC in 2010).

The only person that came to play last night was Clinton Portis, but Portis always comes to play. He is the guy I really feel bad for because he deserves much better given how hard he plays. He is one of my favorite football players of all-time and always will be. That shot he put on Kiwanuka was the best hit of the whole night. To crib from an old football coach cliche, if we had 11 Clinton Portises we'd never lose a game.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Ha...either we have to hire a brilliant offensive mind like jason garrett or pray that zorn stops coaching the qbs long enough to coach the entire team..

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472795]I don't think anyone played particularly well, but Kendall and, other than the 3rd and 1 play, Thomas held their own pretty well. Yeah, Cooley was flat out terrible blocking last night. I know it was against Tuck, but you've got to get the man lined up opposite of you.

To me the worst OL was Rabach. He got no push in the running game, got blown past at least once in the passing game and [b]either JC was a beat early or he was a beat slow but I swear JC was leaning backwards on 70% of the snaps before he got the ball.[/b][/quote]

Especially on that TD pass to Moss. That looked completely f'd up from the jump for precisely the reason you state above. Luckily it worked out, but looked like a disaster to start. I think you are right on the guards, they seemed to play well, though I haven't gone back and watched the line play (and didn't plan to actually). I might have to go back and check out Rabach, though, given your observation. Just from an initial impression I'd say you are probably correct. I can remember at least one time where the 1-technique completely shot the gap and destroyed the play (I ran that one back on TiVo). It was one of those plays (of which there were many) that the D-Line got off two beats faster than the O-Line.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472795]I don't think anyone played particularly well, but Kendall and, other than the 3rd and 1 play, Thomas held their own pretty well. Yeah, Cooley was flat out terrible blocking last night. I know it was against Tuck, but you've got to get the man lined up opposite of you.

To me the worst OL was Rabach. He got no push in the running game, got blown past at least once in the passing game and either JC was a beat early or he was a beat slow but [B]I swear JC was leaning backwards on 70% of the snaps before he got the ball[/B].[/quote]

I noticed that too. I'm wondering if that was due to JC being concerned that he wouldn't have enough time to drop back, or if there was some sort of lack of commuication between him and Rabach. Either way it was a sure sign that something was out of sync.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Rabach has not looked very good lately, and im surprised no one has really brought this to the light before..if our center is calling out the blocking and maing the adjustments and then getting blown off the line...we have a real issue. Especially with our patented "up the middle only" run game.
Is this a sign that buges' philosphy is growing obsolete? Or is this just flawed exectuin and technique?

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472815]Rabach has not looked very good lately, and im surprised no one has really brought this to the light before..if our center is calling out the blocking and maing the adjustments and then getting blown off the line...we have a real issue. Especially with our patented "up the middle only" run game.
Is this a sign that buges' philosphy is growing obsolete? Or is this just flawed exectuin and technique?[/quote]

In fairness, GTripp has hated Rabach for some time now. As for the run game, I think part of it was the inability to block anyone last night, which limited both it's effectiveness and the team's options. I also think that the scheme has changed more than some people thought it would. Clearly Zorn and Sherman Smith have had a good deal of input (as they should really, considering they will take the heat if the offense does not work out), but I think some people misunderstood what Zorn meant when he said he'd leave the running game terminology intact. The terminology might be the same, but that was a straight zone blocking scheme run out of different formations. That was not a 2004-2006 run game. Zone blocking is all the rage in the NFL and can be quite effective, but it does take time to learn well. It also takes a lot of coordination among the O-Line and is different from what they've done the past couple of years. I'd say add the run game to the parts of the offense that are undergoing adjustment. That should make it pretty much the whole thing.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

But zone blocking isnt a new thing for the dirtbags either. Zone blocking has been part of buges philosphy for awhile. Maybe out of different formations. Has it occured to anybody...that maybe the players just really arent that sold on zorn? that they just really dont want to put it all on the line the way they did for gibbs and williams?

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472830]But zone blocking isnt a new thing for the dirtbags either. Zone blocking has been part of buges philosphy for awhile. Maybe out of different formations. [b]Has it occured to anybody...that maybe the players just really arent that sold on zorn? that they just really dont want to put it all on the line the way they did for gibbs and williams?[/b][/quote]
I haven't gotten that at all from anything or anywhere. All reports are the team likes and respects him. It amazes me the level of fear, doubt and disillusion that comes from one loss! It shouldn't amaze me but it still does.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472793]The question is...does zorns offense give jason a chance to succeed? If jason doesnt have time, or open receievers or the right plays called...there is little hope of him looking comfortable. I could be wayyy off base, maybe zorn is a genius in the making who knows? But right now that ws some of the worst play calling, and game management i have EVER seen...including the dark "spurrier" days[/quote]

I do think this offense gives JC a chance to succeed.
I don't think the playcalling was that bad for a rookie coach.
Zorn couldn't help it if his QB and receivers couldn't to execute the plays.
The Oline didn't help much with the running game and was causing penalties.
His corners couldn't catch interceptions.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[QUOTE]I do think this offense gives JC a chance to succeed.
I don't think the playcalling was that bad for a rookie coach.
Zorn couldn't help it if his QB and receivers couldn't to execute the plays.
The Oline didn't help much with the running game and was causing penalties.
His corners couldn't catch interceptions.[/QUOTE]

I do agree in theory this system gives jason a cahnce to be successful. He has the arm..he did it in college, and the corners have no excuses for the drops.
but...as far as the execution of the oline and playcalling goes...if you run the most basic, scripted things a defense as capable as the giants or many in the nfl will be able to make it look like you "cant execute"
run run pass, run pass, run.. short pass short of the first on third...(with the exception of the play tha cooley was wide open) i think such a basic philosphy is all too easy to defend. Im not offering any solutions, other than i think that the play calling was subpar from the getgo and adjustments were not made correctly on the offensive side. If the head coach cant step up and make those adjustments in game...tha tis his fault and not the players and eventually the players will give up and lose faith.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

The clock management at the end of both halves appears to be a continuing issue. Campbell has to know that getting tackled inbounds with less than a minute and all 3 timeouts is a NO-BRAINER timeout situation. We wasted 25 seconds, and were fortunate to get the TD before the half.

In the 4th quarter down two scores, I couldn't believe that we didn't go no huddle, and after running for a 1st down with under 3 minutes left, Zorn calls a running play on the next down??? You have to be kidding. Lastly, why not kick the FG with 30 seconds left and try for a miracle onside kick/hail Mary finish? I put poor clock management on Zorn, and that must improve.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=SouperMeister;472878]The clock management at the end of both halves appears to be a continuing issue. Campbell has to know that getting tackled inbounds with less than a minute and all 3 timeouts is a NO-BRAINER timeout situation. We wasted 25 seconds, and were fortunate to get the TD before the half.

In the 4th quarter down two scores, I couldn't believe that we didn't go no huddle, and after running for a 1st down with under 3 minutes left, Zorn calls a running play on the next down??? You have to be kidding. Lastly, why not kick the FG with 30 seconds left and try for a miracle onside kick/hail Mary finish? I put poor clock management on Zorn, and that must improve.[/quote]

I'm curious as to how much was Campbell audibling plays. I know he audibled to a run a couple of times.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472830]But zone blocking isnt a new thing for the dirtbags either. Zone blocking has been part of buges philosphy for awhile. Maybe out of different formations. [B]Has it occured to anybody...that maybe the players just really arent that sold on zorn? that they just really dont want to put it all on the line the way they did for gibbs and williams[/B]?[/quote]

I have seen nothing to indicate there's any truth to that.

Let's stick with what we know and stop with the silly speculation. I'm not directing that towards you specifically, just in general to the entire board.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

Playcalling was not bad, not great, but not bad either. There should've been a greater sense of urgency under 4 min., but how much have the Skins worked on their 2 min O when they're learning a whole new offense. Rushing things and making a game ending mistake isn't a smart thing to do either. I do agree that a FG, then onsides would've been a better stategy late.

Penalties have a huge effect on playcalling, 2-15 is a lot worse than 2-7. I think there should've been a bit more play-action to get Campbell on the edge, while not Vince Young-he is a big physical QB who has some mobility, getting him on the edge puts pressure on the D.

Before we jump all over Zorn for the Offensive playcalling, I think we should look over on the defensive side also. Our D is very easy to read, when Landry is 15+ yards off, we're in man over 90% of the time. When both safeties are back in mid-short yardage we're in man, if longer it's Cover 2 Zone. If we as fans can see this, you can bet the opposing O can too. That's why Plax had such a big night, Eli knew the coverage was man and our CBs were overmatched against him. We were fortunate the Gaints O make a couple of mistakes in the 2nd half. I'd really like to see more Zone blitzing and attempts to disguise our coverage. We have athletic D-lineman who can drop into coverage.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Redskin;472706]the problem was we didn't pass enough until it was obvious we had to. The Giants new exactly what type of play was being called every time because I sure did. I would have liked to see 1 or 2 deep play actions on first or second down but they never came.[/quote]

We started off the game passing a lot. The O-line couldn't hold up that's why we went to the run.

Re: play calling a huge concern.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;472710]Zorn should've adjusted to the running game after it was obvious that our o-line was getting manhandled by the giants d-line. i dunno why he insisted on passing the ball first. it was only later when our running game was taking off that we were able to make passes (including that bomb to moss that should've been a TD had he stayed in his route).[/quote]


Yes. Moss stopped because he thought the play ws over..If he had kept running he would have had the TD. A receiver should nver give up on a route.