Portis/Riggins comparison
 

last week Riggo talked about how portis had to switch his style of running much like he did when he became a redskin....i didnt say it, he did. i just wanted some feed back on it. i think he is right to an extent, hes become a much more physical runner here in washington. i personally love it.

also i have a couple other points about portis, 1 this guy will retire the franchises all time leading rusher and he had been all that anyone could ask for. i dont think there is a running back in the league that i would rather have, he runs hard, holds on to the football, stays relatively healthy, can make plays in the passing game(as we are starting to find out), and its well known about his blocking....i mean this guy is a stone cold beast, ask demarcus ware or any number of blitzing linebackers who got stoned.

my last comment is based on what DOC Walker had to say, "Portis doesnt seem to have that break away speed." last time i saw portis in a foot race, it was with a 205 pound 4.3 safety that wears number 30 and it was too close to call...CP has plenty of speed and there have been a few runs this year where he breaks the line of scrimmage and looks like everyone else is in slow motion....he has plenty of speed D-O-C but i am curious to see what the fans think

re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I think he's still got tons of speed. Portis is a "do it all" kind of back. Blocks, catches (will start to do more and more) and runs hard. Love it.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

Meh, Portis is nothing more than a 3rd down back.

Quick, name that tune!

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

Portis is a great back and i love him,but it does look like he's lost a step from his Denver days,theres been 3 or 4 times this yr when he's broken into the secondary for what looks like it should be a td or a very long gainer then it doesnt happen.Now dont jump my shit,i'm not knocking portis,it just looks like he's not as fast as he used to be IMO,Betts looks faster at times

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

portis is like a jack rabbitt when compared to riggins.riggins was never really fast,just really hard to tackle.i think that clinton portis is the best blocking/catching the blitz back in the league's history to me.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=Mattyk72;487905]Meh, Portis is nothing more than a 3rd down back.

Quick, name that tune![/quote]

Offiss??

You also forgot that he's a "system" back.

Gotta love the haters....

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

And by the way he's off to the best start of his career, including those glorious Denver days. He's on pace for a career year.

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[quote=Redskins_P;487931]Offiss??

You also forgot that he's a "system" back.

Gotta love the haters....[/quote]

Just got a new deal?

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=Hog1;487945]Just got a new deal?[/quote]

Huh?

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=Mattyk72;487942]He's on pace for a career year.[/quote]I might have called that one.

The biggest key is that our running game is doing more and more zone stuff, which is basically a better system for the running back. Portis doesn't have particularly great vision, and it hurt him when the holes were shifting so much. Zone blocking simplifies the reads for the running back, and it's allowing Portis' athleticism to simply take over games.

The zone schemes are also taking Pete Kendall from a placefiller to a dominating force, and Heyer from one who can't run block to a pretty darn good run blocker. It's hurt Randy Thomas thus far, but I think he's starting to come on.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

The other thing is that Cooley is a really, really good zone blocking TE. Who knew? Todd Yoder appears to be hurt by the system change (which has been gradual), but Fred Davis will likely phase him out of the offense very soon anyway.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=GTripp0012;487963]I might have called that one.

The biggest key is that our running game is doing more and more zone stuff, which is basically a better system for the running back. Portis doesn't have particularly great vision, and it hurt him when the holes were shifting so much. Zone blocking simplifies the reads for the running back, and it's allowing Portis' athleticism to simply take over games.

The zone schemes are also taking Pete Kendall from a placefiller to a dominating force, and Heyer from one who can't run block to a pretty darn good run blocker. It's hurt Randy Thomas thus far, but I think he's starting to come on.[/quote]

So what's up with the inability to run to the right with Heyer in there? Or is Thomas more to blame?

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=Mattyk72;487966]So what's up with the inability to run to the right with Heyer in there? Or is Thomas more to blame?[/quote]I don't see it as an inability as much as I see it as a preference to run weakside away from Cooley.

But, I think the simple answer to your question is that our left side has been SO good that running to the right is only a formality to keep the defense honest. If we have Samuels, Kendall, and then Sellers leading up the left side in our base formation, no defense is going to beat us like that. Additionally, on non-zone type runs, we still like to pull Thomas around because he's great at pulling.

Ultimately though, the longer a play to the right takes to develop, the more likely it is that Heyer or Cooley (or Jansen) will have a LB or DB shoot through their gap and blow up the play. Because of that, all of our big plays come on the left side, which keeps the YPC down to the right.

Zorn really like to attack the weak side of the defense, which generally happens to be our offensive left. I think that's the big reason for the lack of balance between the sides.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

We are also not running between the tackles as often. This is part because of the success we've had with the stretch play, and part because when we run between the tackles, Casey Rabach ends up 4 yards in the backfield. However, when we run that stretch play and Portis cuts it back, Rabach is often right at the LB level opening a HUGE cutback lane for Portis/Betts. So by taking the pressure off the center to blow open the playside hole, we're improving the blocking at 3 positions on the OL (LG, C, RT).

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I love Portis, but Riggo won us a SB with one of the greatest plays in the history of the NFL. Portis needs to get us to a ring to be in the same league as Riggo, as far as how he's perceived by skins fans. That's just the way things are in sports. CP certainly has the talent to do it and I agree that barring serious injury he'll be the franchise leader in yardage by the end of his career. Plus, he's already the single season record holder.

Whatever--they're both awesome, and let's hope CP takes us all the way!

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I remember watching Portis his first year in Denver and saying, "I love the way this guy runs; he is my favorite running back in the league." Now I was a big Champ Bailey fan (who wasn't), but when Gibbs traded him for Portis I was ecstatic. Since then I have had the privilege to watch my favorite back play for my team. Watching him play here he has proven to be a more well rounded back then I knew, his pass blocking is phenomenal, and he has continued to improve his versatility by becoming a legit receiving threat. And the attitude and spirit he brings to the team I think is invaluable. I said two years ago, when people started to question how much longer he would last that he is still young, still elite, and is HOF bound. I even made a lifetime bet with a NY Giants fan that he'd be in the HOF before Tiki. I wasn't old enough to watch Riggo in action, so all I know of him are highlight reels. So, Clinton Portis is by far my favorite Redskin, and I think he always will be.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=Redskins_P;487950]Huh?[/quote]

NO ,
satire from the other post

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I had the pleasuer of first hearing news of Clinton in high school becuse I live in FLA and played football in high school so the rumors of this kid from Gansville high were awsome.
Clinton and I were born a week from each other (I'm older) and when I got hurt I got to see santana at Carol city a couple of times. Then they went to the U and I got to see them there so I have seen a lot of them. CP has come along way even though I'm not old enough to remember Riggo I can see there toughness are the same.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

It is really hard to compare these 2 backs since they are so different.

The weaknesses of Portis were the strength of Riggo.

Riggo was basically a Mike Sellers type back with running back skills.
He ran up the gut and always gained yardage, even when the defense knew exactly where the play was going with 9 in the box.
This is an unheard of ability in today's NFL.
Many times he would run 8-9 plays in a row....and he NEVER came out ....EVER.
Back then the skins tried to run him 30+ times a game, and he'd only get started after having 20+ carries.

Now, the max carries are about 20-25/game for a single back, and they need rest, as Portis does.

I frankly, could not believe that Portis was not in the game the next to last drive last week, it was shocking to me with the game on the line.
Riggo would have been there, beating the crap out of the opposition in that situation and drooling for more. Riggo was essentially RB with a MLB mentality, he LOVED to hit someone....HARD....Now, Riggo didn't catch much, and he didn't run sweeps or catch screens, he didn't have too because he'd always drag the first guy another 2-3 yards after contact. Riggo was the Dominating force for our back to back superbowls, everyone keyed on him. It was not playcalling that won those games as much as it was Riggo getting a guaranteed 3 every time...(of course play action-deep works great in those situations)

Riggo would not work as well with zone blocking as he thrived on bunch blocking with heavy contact, open spaces favor shifty backs that juke and hesitate.
Riggo did not juke nor hesistate,....ever.
I bet he took fewer losses than any RB in history.

Now Portis on the other hand is the exact opposite, more of a barry sanders type that requires a hole to run through. His weakness is short yardage on the goal line, the opposite of Riggo. He shored up his "between the tackles" running quite a bit a few years back and is actually very good at that now....The only thing he lacks vs Riggo is the ability to drag multiple defenders, get a guaranteed 2 yards up the gut when needed, and avoidance of negative runs. However, Portis can catch and even line up as a WR occasionally....and his pass blocking is phenominal....yes Riggo pass blocked well too, but I dont think he was nimble enough to handle pass rushing DEs like Portis can.
Riggo essentially helped in the interior.

So, who is better?
Well, Riggo of course, he has a ring and dragged the Skins to 2 back to back Superbowls.

Who is a more balanced all round back?
Portis.

Will Portis ever reach the level of Riggo in all time Redskins lore?
Hard to say...even if he duplicates what Riggo's teams did,....Riggo did it first and is a HERO for winning the Redskins first Superbowl in a stretch of glory.
Until Portis wins a Superbowl and becomes a household name like the Diesel, you'd have to say Riggo is still in the drivers seat.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=johnerotten;487919]portis is like a jack rabbitt when compared to riggins.riggins was never really fast,just really hard to tackle.i think that clinton portis is the best blocking/catching the blitz back in the league's history to me.[/quote]Riggins was actually very fast for a 250 lb back. He was a state champion in the 100 yard dash in high school. Once he got a head of steam, he could pull away from many DBs that he outweighed by 50 lbs. Just look at the TD run against Miami in Super Bowl XVII or the 60 yard TD at Dallas in the last game of the '79 season. I find this comparison very interesting, because both Portis and Riggo give the best of both worlds. I would designate Riggins as a power-back with deceptive speed and Portis as a speed back with deceptive power. Can't go wrong with either guy - both True Redskins as Joe Gibbs used to say.

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[quote=SouperMeister;488050]I find this comparison very interesting, because both Portis and Riggo give the best of both worlds. I would designate Riggins as a power-back with deceptive speed and Portis as a speed back with deceptive power. Can't go wrong with either guy - both True Redskins as Joe Gibbs used to say.[/quote]

I completely agree. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=SouperMeister;488050]Riggins was actually very fast for a 250 lb back. He was a state champion in the 100 yard dash in high school. Once he got a head of steam, he could pull away from many DBs that he outweighed by 50 lbs. Just look at the TD run against Miami in Super Bowl XVII or the 60 yard TD at Dallas in the last game of the '79 season. I find this comparison very interesting, because both Portis and Riggo give the best of both worlds. [B]I would designate Riggins as a power-back with deceptive speed and Portis as a speed back with deceptive power.[/B] Can't go wrong with either guy - both True Redskins as Joe Gibbs used to say.[/quote]

That's a great way to put it.

When you see old clips of Riggo, I'm always shocked at how he could run away from the D in the open field. The guy was definitely very fast for a man his size. Stephen Davis was the same kind of back when he was in his prime, but Riggo had more power.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on this site! Way too hard for me to compare, but at the end of the day, Super Bowl rings is what we all want to see, and Riggo has one. I am not saying that CP can't get the job done, and I am loving him more and more each season, but I am rolling with Riggo for now. Plus I ran into CP at PF Changs this winter, and he was drinking Pina Coladas! I don't think you will find the diesal ever sipping on one of those!

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

good question great debate the rings have it.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

Very good thread. Great points made. Have to go with rings and HoF. When Portis does either then the discussion gets more interesting. Until then Riggo.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

Amen Brotha, I think if Portis stays healthy and this team has more continuity over time it could become a tie if the z man leads them to the promise land!

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I think Portis is a great back and getting better all around. But with Riggo, if you needed 2 or 3 yards for a 1rst down and you gave him the ball, you could bank on it. The guy never got stuffed, never was brought down by one guy, and always fell forward for extra yardage. On the other hand Riggo did'nt catch many passes and I don't remember him ever decleating a defender the way Clinton does either. What they do have in common, is they are both a little nuts and fun as hell to watch.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=WillH;487990]I remember watching Portis his first year in Denver and saying, "I love the way this guy runs; he is my favorite running back in the league." [B]Now I was a big Champ Bailey fan (who wasn't)[/B][/quote]

that'd be me... yeah, i'm that guy.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

riggins was more of a fullback that CP is.i'm not saying portis will not run you over,but i saw riggins run harvey martin,randy white,and about every member of the cowboys dline over more than once,and that's hard to do.riggins was never the dodge and miss back that portis is either.riggins was just a power runner,portis is too,but he can fake you out of your skin in an eye blink.and like i have said before,clinton portis is the best back in the league's history at catching the blitz,i have never seen anybody better at that.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

It's a shame Portis was in a dated offense for so long. He was forced to run the ball constantly into eight man fronts. I remember in the '04 opener against Tampa Bay and he broke that 64 yard run- I thought that we were all in for a great couple of years. That season I think he finished with a 3.9 ypc... what a disappointment. I'm glad we have the philosophy now to see some exciting running.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=53Fan;488151]I think Portis is a great back and getting better all around. But with Riggo, if you needed 2 or 3 yards for a 1rst down and you gave him the ball, you could bank on it. The guy never got stuffed, never was brought down by one guy, and always fell forward for extra yardage. [/quote]
Of course the defenders weren't 300lbs either.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

And it isn't that Portis was faster when he played in Denver, he is running just as fast now... but the teams Denver played were just slower so it looked like Portis was going faster.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;488256]Of course the defenders weren't 300lbs either.[/quote]

Neither were the offensive linemen. And I'm pretty sure if Riggins were in his 20's, he could still do it today.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

Portis will break a long one this week, because the Rams take bad angles and can't tackle. I hope he does break one and this becomes a week where the Skins are up early and often and Portis gets his 100 early, and doesn't need 20-25 carries to get there. I would love for Betts to see some work late, which would mean the Skins are winning big.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

I might agree with Riggo, but CP is obviously the real deal(meaning just a true NFL superstar quality back). The other backs faded to obscurity once they left Denver. Portis is the best pure back of the bunch, including Terrell Davis. Doesn't matter what system, he can do it well.

Re: Portis/Riggins comparison
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;488256]Of course the defenders weren't 300lbs either.[/quote]

That is why you can't really get a decent debate going about thetwo. Totally different eras. But if I had to bet my life on a guy making a one yard gain Riggo would be my man.