Jansen vs. Heyer
 

in sunday’s game against the rams, jansen’s struggles in pass protection seemed to re-surface. it seems he has the power to neutralize the bull rush but lacks the athleticism to consistently combat speed rushers.

so, assuming heyer is now healthy, the questions is: who is our better option right now?

are we better off letting heyer develop his skills (particularly in run blocking)? if he is our long term answer at the position, one would assume that is the best thing to do. but how sure of that are we, really, at this point? is the fact that we aren’t sure yet cause to leave him out or to put him back in?

clinton portis is running his way to an MVP season. should jansen’s superior ability in the run game be our priority? or are we better served providing our young quarterback with the best possible protection?

a lot of factors to be considered here…

your thoughts:

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

I give Heyer one more week off to completely heal and Jansen one last chance to redeem himself.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

3 straight weeks of 120 yards rushing for CP. I'm keeping Jansen in.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;490186]I give Heyer one more week off to completely heal and Jansen one last chance to redeem himself.[/quote]

:goodjob:

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

JJ's pass pro last week concerned me. Last week at this time I was behind Jansen 100%, now not so much. As long as he's not going up against speed rushers he should be ok. There's no need to rush Heyer back, but I think once he's good to go he will get the job back.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=Mattyk72;490204]JJ's pass pro last week concerned me. Last week at this time I was behind Jansen 100%, now not so much. As long as he's not going up against speed rushers he should be ok. There's no need to rush Heyer back, but I think once he's good to go he will get the job back.[/quote]
Maybe your onto something....Consider the strength of the D attack at that position and play the most appropriate guy that week.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

We HAVE to pass protect. Maybe give Jansen 1 more week and let Heyer fully recover but Heyer is going to have to learn to run block. He is our future right tackle.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer is the better option IMO. Jansen has been getting pushed around since pre-season, I think he's pretty much done. I know he's been the rock and a Redskins stalwart but he's a liability in the passing game. Heyer can get better in the run game but Jansen's days as a starting RT are probably over.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Glad i'm not the coach on this one.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer. Jansen is good depth now, nothing else. I feel like our total lack of pass pro isn't worth an increase in run blocking. One bad pass protection can lead to a sack, fumble, etc. One bad run block will lead to a loss of 1-2 yards (both more or less worst case scenarios.)

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=53Fan;490208]We HAVE to pass protect. Maybe give Jansen 1 more week and let Heyer fully recover but Heyer is going to have to learn to run block. He is our future right tackle.[/quote]

Right on 53Fan.

Everyone is talking like Heyer has zero run block skills. He's not a practice sled. He has [I]some[/I] freaking run block value.

JJ is to much of a liability. Yes, CP is running his heart out now, but do you want that to be at the expense of JC?

If you can't properly protect your QB, you don't deserve the starting job. Heyer will grow and his run blocking will improve. It's fine.

All you JJ lovers should tell CP and the rest of the dirtbags that our run success is due in large part to Janson. I'm not buying it.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

What was the problem with the pass protection last week - besides it being non-existent? While i have heard a lot of sport radio talk about it being "Jansen" and the line, I heard a couple players say its was mixed communications with the backs picking up blitzes. What really is the cause of the protection problems?

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

All I know is that we have 12 sacks on the season.

Cowboys - 7
Eagles - 10
Giants - 6

Get Heyer in there and lets protect our future.

And... you may be on to something Hooray. There was certainly mix communication between some backs picking up blitzes. It's not all Jansons fault. True.

And don't forget how crappy #60 looks at times. Drives me crazy.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer is what need at the tackle not Jansen. CP has been running well but if you look at it the big runs have been on the left side not the right side of where Jansen is. In the west coast offense pass protection is the key not running blocking. We need to protect Campbell by all means. Jansen is terrible in pass protection and after the season he will pack his bags and get off of our cap for younger athletic guys. Don't be surprise if Kendall is next. We have to get younger, athletic on the offensive line. Heyer will become a gret right tackle for us before moving to the left tackle to replace Samuels in about 4-5 years.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Clearly Jansen's one and only upside is run-blocking. The proof is in the pudding so to speak as we've seen Portis rack up yards like crazy the three games JJ has started. But... the thing to keep in mind is w/ Jansen's poor pass blocking our air assault is limited - in fact it seemed like we had to change the game plan against St. Louis to limit deeper routes and therefore the amount of time JC holds the ball. I think the implication is the longer Jansen starts the likelier teams are to throw more defenders in the box and key on Portis. The result: probably a weaker all around offense. If Heyer is finally healthy I think he ought to start and we ought to pass like crazy that first game to reestablish the air attack and keep defenses honest. Portis will see more room to run too.

Disclaimer: Both Jansen and Heyer are hurt too much IMO. Heyer is a kid but already having shoulder problems that keep him sidelined. We need to draft a bad ass o tackle for '09.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=CA_Redskins;490393]All I know is that we have 12 sacks on the season.

Cowboys - 7
Eagles - 10
Giants - 6

Get Heyer in there and lets protect our future.

And... you may be on to something Hooray. There was certainly mix communication between some backs picking up blitzes. It's not all Jansons fault. True.

[B]And don't forget how crappy #60 looks at times.[/B] Drives me crazy.[/quote]

Too lazy to look right now but I assume Rabach is #60. On second thought, I would be delighted to see the FO use our two top picks in '09 for o-lineman. A bad ass tackle and a bad ass guard/center to step in for whoever needs to be replaced first between Kendell and Rabach.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

#60 is Chris Samuels

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Rabach has been pretty weak this year. You know, since his name was brought up.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=The Goat;490401]Too lazy to look right now but I assume Rabach is #60. On second thought, I would be delighted to see the FO use our two top picks in '09 for o-lineman. A bad ass tackle and a bad ass guard/center to step in for whoever needs to be replaced first between Kendell and Rabach.[/quote]IMHO, Kendall has earned himself an extension this year. He is to the rush offense what Shawn Springs is to the pass defense.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=GTripp0012;490436]IMHO, Kendall has earned himself an extension this year. He is to the rush offense what Shawn Springs is to the pass defense.[/quote]

Right on GTripp. Kendall has been a great addition and stayed healthy too. Sometimes I wonder whether Jansen really should be moved inside as a backup since his bull rush ability is right there w/ Kendall's.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=The Goat;490444]Right on GTripp. Kendall has been a great addition and stayed healthy too. Sometimes I wonder whether Jansen really should be moved inside as a backup since his bull rush ability is right there w/ Kendall's.[/quote]I think Jansen could work at RG in this system. Of course, then comes the problem of what happens to Randy Thomas, both guys have signed extensions in the last two years.

Kendall might end up as the odd man out, but they would be making a huge mistake.

They should probably move Rinehart inside to Center and get him ready to start next year, IMO.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Jansen is better on the Goal Line than Heyer is, but over the last few weeks, we've become a zone blocking exclusive team between the 20s, and Heyer's style fits the best even in the running game.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

CP ran for 100+ yds and we still lost, b/c of the lack of pass protection. Like some ppl have said, make sure Heyer is healthy and put him in as soon as he's 100%.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

hmm...
I say...put Jansen in against the Browns because their weakness is run defense.
Monitor Jansen's pass protection and if it sucks at halftime, bench him.
But let Jansen know ahead of time.

I'd give Jansen 1 more game to prove his worth.
Last week sucked, but the prior 2 games against Rivals away with loud crowd noise, he was quite strong....the man deseves that after playing so long (with broken thumbs too)
He is tough...give him 1 last shot and make him PROVE he is a starter THIS WEEK.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;490398]Heyer is what need at the tackle not Jansen. CP has been running well but if you look at it the big runs have been on the left side not the right side of where Jansen is. [/quote]

actually, if you look at the numbers, our runs to the right side have significantly increased since jansen stepped in. still not equal to the production on the left, but to keep defenses honest, you have to run effectively to both sides.

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;490398]In the west coast offense pass protection is the key not running blocking. We need to protect Campbell by all means. Jansen is terrible in pass protection and after the season he will pack his bags and get off of our cap for younger athletic guys. Don't be surprise if Kendall is next. We have to get younger, athletic on the offensive line. [/quote]

i think jansen will be gone after this season too. i wouldn’t bet too much on it though. his cap hit will still be pretty significant next year, if I’m not mistaken. wouldn’t be surprised to see him kept as an insurance policy. kendall will be gone. this is the last year on his contract and he’s 35 years old with arthritis in both knees. he’s playing his heart out right now but its not realistic to expect him to maintain this pace. rhinehart will succeed him in ’09.

[quote=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;490398]Heyer will become a gret right tackle for us before moving to the left tackle to replace Samuels in about 4-5 years.[/quote]

don’t expect to ever see heyer as the starter at left tackle.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Leonard Little abused Jansen on the pass rush. I don't see Heyer as much of a liability as a run blocker as Jansen is as a pass protector, so I think Heyer should get the job back when he's healthy.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Why has Heyer not been given another chance, considering how bad our Oline has been playing. I wonder if they have realized that he is not starting material. It seems to me that they should give him a shot. We need to know if he is the answer at RT. We won when he was in there.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;506602]Why has Heyer not been given another chance, considering how bad our Oline has been playing. I wonder if they have realized that he is not starting material. It seems to me that they should give him a shot. We need to know if he is the answer at RT. We won when he was in there.[/quote]

They have to pick their poison. Jansen is better at run blocking. Heyer is better at pass blocking. For most of the season we have been a run first or running offense. However Zorn says this system is supposed to be a pass scoring machine according to him in preseason. So ....do you want the run you have to go with Jansen. If our WR could ever catch a cold then put Heyer back in.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer. Did you see that block Jansen missed on Tuck where he didn't even touch him and was standing there blocking no one???? He is horrible!!

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=J. Spanky;490848]actually, if you look at the numbers, our runs to the right side have significantly increased since jansen stepped in. still not equal to the production on the left, but to keep defenses honest, you have to run effectively to both sides.



i think jansen will be gone after this season too. i wouldn’t bet too much on it though. his cap hit will still be pretty significant next year, if I’m not mistaken. wouldn’t be surprised to see him kept as an insurance policy. kendall will be gone. this is the last year on his contract and he’s 35 years old with arthritis in both knees. he’s playing his heart out right now but its not realistic to expect him to maintain this pace. rhinehart will succeed him in ’09.



don’t expect to ever see heyer as the starter at left tackle.[/quote]I think because of his contract, Jansen is going to be the short-term replacement for Casey Rabach on the interior at Center, which is an idea that was floated during OTAs this season.

I don't think Rinehart will start next year, but I think he will be active, and the first available replacement at Guard, plus he'll see more action at tackle in the preseason.

Heyer might be the odds on favorite at RT next year, but I think we're going to draft there in the first round, so I'm sure he'll have heavy competition. I also wouldn't count out Rinehart at RT or at C just yet, even though I see him as a starting guard in our future.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Stephon Heyer. He played well when he started, Jansen took the job on injury, did well for a few weeks, now looks awful.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

To me, Jansen makes a lot of sense at Center because he's a lot quicker out of his stance than Rabach is, and struggles to block ends with multiple moves one on one. But on the interior, he wouldn't face players like this, and would actually handle his own theoretically.

Plus, we threw a bunch of money at him prior to 2007, and we're not about to give up on him just yet.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

I just heard JC is the fifth most sacked qb. That sure is not helping JC get better. We shoould put in Heyer and see what happens. If he is better in pass protection the maybe he will improve his run blocking with more game experience.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

If you are playing this Sunday to win this Sunday's game and not worrying about the future and all that stuff, you play Jansen.

If you want to develop Heyer and give him game experience for "down the road" play Heyer.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer has to play the rest of the way. Jansen is not going to get any better at this point, Heyer will with more PT. He is the better edge blocker and we desperately need that now.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

[quote=IowaSkinsFan;506720]Heyer has to play the rest of the way. Jansen is not going to get any better at this point, Heyer will with more PT. He is the better edge blocker and we desperately need that now.[/quote]

Absolutely!

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Jansen is done. It hurts my heart to say it, because I loved that guy for so long, but he's a liablity at this point.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Heyer has an excuse for missing a block on run plays.What is Jansens for the lack of pass protection.Is it because he has experience..lol.He should be protecting better than he is!!!!

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Jansen seems to be taking the brunt of this but let's face it he's not the only guilty party here. With Samuels I'm willing to give him some slack due to him playing with a bad knee, and Kendall has generally been pretty solid. Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen/Heyer have all had their moments of shitty play.

Re: Jansen vs. Heyer
 

Am I the only one who noticed that the whole O-line started it's downward spiral when Buges left for his family emergency and has not recovered since? Whether it's technique or execution...lol. I'm not sure but the whole line has sucked since then.


I know Buges is back but just wonder if he lost his zing for coaching or are the players simply blowing him off?