Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

- Kudos to Steve Young for taking a stand especially given the fact that he's a prominent figure in Morman culture (Great Great Grandson of Mormon figurehead Brigham Young).

[quote]
sfgate: The signs on the front lawn of former 49er quarterback Steve Young's Peninsula home say "No on Prop. 8," which normally wouldn't be much of a story in the Bay Area, a gay-friendly region which is the center of opposition to the effort to ban same-sex marriage in the state.

But Young isn't only a Hall of Fame quarterback. He's also the great-great-great grandson of Brigham Young, the second president of the Mormon church. The church has pushed hard and publicly for Prop. 8 and Mormons have pumped millions into the campaign.

Young also isn't just any church member. During his years in the NFL, he was one of the nation's most visible Mormons. He graduated from BYU, which was named for his ancestor, and received his law degree there. In a 1996 "60 Minute" interview, he said that he still had plans to go on the church mission he missed in college and had no problem tithing 10 percent of his earnings to the church. He retains close ties to Utah, married his wife, Barbara, at a temple in Hawaii and even served as narrator for a short video on the Mormon church and its history, done for the 2002 Winter Olympics in Utah.

Given all that, it's surprising to see Young's family lining up on the opposite side of the church, especially after Mormon leaders in Salt Lake City sent a letter last June that asked all California church members to do all they could to support the Prop. 8 effort by "donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman."

While it's Barb Young's name that appears on the checks, she made it clear in a statement issued today through Equality California that the contributions are a family affair.

Later, she clarified her remarks with this update: "To expand on my earlier email, I am very passionate about this issue and Steve is completely supportive of me and my work for equality. We both love our Church and are grateful that our Church encourages us to vote our conscience. Steve prefers not to get involved politically on any issue no matter what the cause and therefore makes no endorsement."

"We believe ALL families matter and we do not believe in discrimination, therefore, our family will vote against Prop. 8," she said.
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=2]sfgate: The signs on the front lawn of former 49er quarterback Steve Young's Peninsula home say "No on Prop. 8," which normally wouldn't be much of a story in the Bay Area, a gay-friendly region which is the center of opposition to the effort to ban same-sex marriage in the state. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]But Young isn't only a Hall of Fame quarterback. He's also the great-great-great grandson of Brigham Young, the second president of the Mormon church. The church has pushed hard and publicly for Prop. 8 and Mormons have pumped millions into the campaign. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Young also isn't just any church member. During his years in the NFL, he was one of the nation's most visible Mormons. He graduated from BYU, which was named for his ancestor, and received his law degree there. In a 1996 "60 Minute" interview, he said that he still had plans to go on the church mission he missed in college and had no problem tithing 10 percent of his earnings to the church. He retains close ties to Utah, married his wife, Barbara, at a temple in Hawaii and even served as narrator for a short video on the Mormon church and its history, done for the 2002 Winter Olympics in Utah. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Given all that, it's surprising to see Young's family lining up on the opposite side of the church, especially after Mormon leaders in Salt Lake City sent a letter last June that asked all California church members to do all they could to support the Prop. 8 effort by "donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]While it's Barb Young's name that appears on the checks, she made it clear in a statement issued today through Equality California that the contributions are a family affair. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Later, she clarified her remarks with this update: "To expand on my earlier email, I am very passionate about this issue and Steve is completely supportive of me and my work for equality. We both love our Church and are grateful that our Church encourages us to vote our conscience. Steve prefers not to get involved politically on any issue no matter what the cause and therefore makes no endorsement." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"We believe ALL families matter and we do not believe in discrimination, therefore, our family will vote against Prop. 8," she said. [/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[/quote]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

not that his opinion carries any more weight then anyone else. but it is very interesting that he voices his "own" opinion

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=dmek25;496603]not that his opinion carries any more weight then anyone else. but it is very interesting that he voices his "own" opinion[/quote]

I will say that it's a little ironic that while he is a member of the Mormon church he still played in San Francisco so his ties to the community and experience there might play a role in his understanding and empathy towards this issue. Still Young didn't need to come out and take a stand on this. There are numerous athletes out there and I have no idea as to what they believe politically. So the fact that he took a stand especially given his bloodlines and such is very impressive and admirable at least thats what I think.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;496616]I will say that it's a little ironic that while he is a member of the Mormon church he still played in San Francisco so his ties to the community and experience there might play a role in his understanding and empathy towards this issue. Still Young didn't need to come out and take a stand on this. There are numerous athletes out there and I have no idea as to what they believe politically. So the fact that he took a stand especially given his bloodlines and such is very impressive and admirable at least thats what I think.[/quote]
Well in honesty its his wifes cause that is pushing this and he said he stands by her. I bet if he was still single those signs would not be in his yard.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=firstdown;496618]Well in honesty its his wifes cause that is pushing this and he said he stands by her.[/quote]

Dude this is Steve Young we're talking about. If his wife was trying to pin him down to say something he could just scramble his way out of it and find Jerry Rice downfield :D

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;496619]Dude this is Steve Young we're talking about. If his wife was trying to pin him down to say something he could just scramble his way out of it and find Jerry Rice downfield :D[/quote]
He lost a few steps,.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Religious zealots hard at work on real important issues. Good to see millions of dollars being spent on crap like this.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

gay people should be able to be as miserable as the rest of us. (don't remember where I heard that but its true)

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Good for Steve Young for doing the right thing. I heard David Frum (the axis of evil guy, who is actually really impressive) talking about this issue recently; he said that all you have to do is look at polling data for people under 40 to see where we are headed in this country with respect to this issue.

I think with an economy in crisis people are really tuning into the inanity of these divisive social issues, which have been at the center of our presidential elections for the past 40 years. They aren't working this time and that's a very very good thing.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

what are the reasons that the government doesn't want the legalize gay marriage? I Understand it's not allowed according to the bible, but there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. Would this have any negative effects on society?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk72;496667]Religious zealots hard at work on real important issues. Good to see millions of dollars being spent on crap like this.[/quote]

Did you ever catch Religulous? There's a great portion of that movie spent on the Mormon church.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Duffman003;496896]what are the reasons that the government doesn't want the legalize gay marriage? I Understand it's not allowed according to the bible, but there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. Would this have any negative effects on society?[/quote]

The real crazies among the religous believe that allowing gay marriage will not only create more gays (which isn't bad to us but to the crazies it's a whole nother story) but it will bring America closer to being a Godless nation and in turn will help bring the wrath of God upon America. I don't know what the wrath is but from what I understand this could be anything from another 9/11 to the rapture itself.

Plus most people are freaked out by gays, myself included, well only the lispy feminine types that just seem to be trying way to hard, but I will admit it is still kind of surprising when I see gay people in real life mainly because I rarely see it. Still taking away rights from people because you think the Bible gives you the right to is just plain unfair and probably part of the reason you have lower church attendence and others willing to pay higher taxes instead of electing a party thats more likely to try and construct policies that take away or prevent civil rights.

I guess I relate to the gays in a sense that I know what it's like to keep a secret and be in the closet as I'm an atheist/agnostic myself that still hasn't "come out" to my parents and I know when I get a job I'm probably going to keep it a secret especially since I'll probably still be living in the Bible Belt. I've even tried to tell my parents but it ended with me being a believer in Jesus who doesn't like the Bible.

I mean I've told my friends and I've told you guys (some of which I am inclined to consider friends) but even then you get the crazier of your friends trying to debate you, which is actually kind of fun, but sometimes they shut down and act weird which gets on my nerves. It actually got to a point where a good friend of mine took me to a play called "Final Destination" in which a wife beater/accidental murder went to heaven for accepting Jesus while normal people were sent to hell for not truly accepting Jesus. He also freaked out when I had him over to dinner at my families house and saw me saying grace with my family.

I'm not even against religion, what I am against is the fractions that brainwash their followers and force them to focus on dogma and worship instead of the actual teachings that apply to teaching people how to be kind and humble. I mean it's like your a good person based on the fact that you believe in Jesus instead of earning it by being a good person that respects and helps other people. I guess it's one of my favorite jokes as when my friends make fun of me for my godless beliefs I agree and joke about how I can't go a minute without thinking about killing someone or steeling a car as the only reason people don't do these things is because they think God won't approve of it and punish them and when you don't believe in God you're automatically inclined to commit horrible sins.

Anyway sorry for the rant. To answer the original question people are scared of not only what they don't understand but also of those that break rules assigned by authority figures (which in this case would be corrupt preachers and the like).

[quote=EternalEnigma21;496689]gay people should be able to be as miserable as the rest of us. (don't remember where I heard that but its true)[/quote]

Actually theres the joke where gay people are against gay marriage because with straight couples that get serious it ends up with one of the two pondering marriage. If you're gay you just have to say "Oh sorry honey I'd love to but it's illegal." If you're straight its like "we have to break up."

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

That'll put us in God's good grace and put an end to all that is wrong with this world. This whole time to fight hunger, poverty, war, greed, crime, and global warming, all we had to do was stop the gay-mo-sexuals from living a life that is true to themselves.

Funny how the Bible tells people that they shouldn't drink, have premarital sex, mock, judge, comit adultry, lie, cheat, steal, be proud, eat too much etc... And the only one that we as a people try to enforce on anyone is the whole " a marriage is defined as a union between man and woman" thing.

Sounds kind of f'ckd up if you ask me. Before you go and try to be all high and mighty on what someone else can do, take a hard effin look at yourself. Besides, what somebody does in their own privacy is their business. Hell, even if they want to get married in public, more power to them. It is not my preference or my choice, but I am not trying to live someone else's life either.

Bottom line, if they are not not doing anything to infringe upon your life or liberty, then leave it alone. Go fight your holy war somewhere else, and pick a battle on a sin that truly matters, not the one that is easiest to fight because you are not gay.

BTW I am straight, and I used to be a Christian, but that was before I stopped hating people.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

angry, tell us how you really feel:) good post

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

wow, can you believe this?

[url=http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/04/gay-marriage-fight-costs-million-california/]Gay Marriage Fight Costs $74 Million in California - FOXNews.com Elections[/url]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Duffman003;496896]what are the reasons that the government doesn't want the legalize gay marriage? I Understand it's not allowed according to the bible, but there's supposed to be a separation of church and state. Would this have any negative effects on society?[/quote]
Well gays can get married anytime they want in a church. What they want is for it to be recongnized by the state. They then qualify for married benfitts and such but other than that I'm not sure of all the issues.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

just a way for society to get a grip on money is all that it is!
this is the land of the free,not the almost free.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I cannot believe this. California is now officially the most useless state in the union. Or at least the most underperforming state. I mean I definately disagreed with their financial policies and desire to give people handouts but California always came through when it came to civil rights. Plus if it wasn't for the ridiculous price of living I would really want to go there, but in the meantime I'll probably settle for Vegas or North Carolina. No state income tax in Nevada :D

Now all it is is a big chunk of land with overpriced property values and shitty movies.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;498178]I cannot believe this. California is now officially the most useless state in the union. Or at least the most underperforming state. I mean I definately disagreed with their financial policies and desire to give people handouts but California always came through when it came to civil rights. Plus if it wasn't for the ridiculous price of living I would really want to go there, but in the meantime I'll probably settle for Vegas or North Carolina. No state income tax in Nevada :D

Now all it is is a big chunk of land with overpriced property values and shitty movies.[/quote]


What a sad day...people exercising their rights to deny others rights afforded to them. Financial, California will suck the life out of you...Washington state doesn't have a state income tax either :)

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I know prop 8 passed. Bunch of B.S. What sucks even more is that it just barely passed. California still has a long way to go. :(

But does anyone know if Prop 4 passed? Prop 4 would've required teenage girls to tell their parents prior to having an abortion...

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;498195]I know prop 8 passed. Bunch of B.S. What sucks even more is that it just barely passed. California still has a long way to go. :(

But does anyone know if Prop 4 passed? Prop 4 would've required teenage girls to tell their parents prior to having an abortion...[/quote]

Well it also passed in two other states.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

If you like irony you like this:

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3388430/Barack-Obama-may-have-helped-California-Proposition-8-gay-marriage-ban-pass.html]Barack Obama may have helped California Proposition 8 gay marriage ban pass - Telegraph[/url]

"Around 70 per cent of the African-American voters who overwhelmingly backed Mr Obama also approved Proposition 8, helping pass the controversial ballot measure despite a small majority of whites voting against the ban on same-sex unions. Hispanic and Asian voters were split on the issue.
The state's black turnout jumped to 10 per cent of the electorate, up from 6 per cent in 2004, as voters inspired by Mr Obama flocked to the polls for the first time. The Democratic candidate took the state with 61 per cent of the popular vote.
Although the president-elect opposed the gay marriage ban, it appears his supporters may have helped pass the measure that was vociferously opposed by many white Democrats."

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

African-American are as anti-gay as you can get. If it's gay, they hate it. Ignorance + Bible = a dangerous combination.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;498313]African-American are as anti-gay as you can get. If it's gay, they hate it. Ignorance + Bible = a dangerous combination.[/quote]


What about him:

[YT]tCWz9U0MtoI&feature=related[/YT]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;498316]What about him:

[yt]tCWz9U0MtoI&feature=related[/yt][/quote]

He's in a different universe, probably all by himself.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=firstdown;498306]Well it also passed in two other states.[/quote]

But what 2 other states? And if you say any that falls in the Bible belt it's automatically disqualified.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Florida and Arizona.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;498356]But what 2 other states? And if you say any that falls in the Bible belt it's automatically disqualified.[/quote]

BB, says its FL & Arizona but I'm not sure. When I look it up all I find is stuff on Ca. but I've heard several time two othere state ban gay mar. What do you mean when you say if it falls in the bible belt its disqualified?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/state.laws/index.html"]Link[/URL]. I know it's not popular, but I for one am very happy to see this measure pass. No one is saying that these individuals shouldn't have the right to live as they choose, but it supports the traditional definition of marriage being between a man and a woman. I'd also like to see more legislation to prevent anyone choosing to live an "alternative lifestyle" from adopting. Again, I don't hate gays, but I don't think children should have that particular viewpoint forced on/presented to them as a valid option.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;498377][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/state.laws/index.html"]Link[/URL]. I know it's not popular, but I for one am very happy to see this measure pass. No one is saying that these individuals shouldn't have the right to live as they choose, but it supports the traditional definition of marriage being between a man and a woman. I'd also like to see more legislation to prevent anyone choosing to live an "alternative lifestyle" from adopting. Again, I don't hate gays, but [B]I don't think children should have that particular viewpoint forced on/presented to them as a valid option.[/B][/quote]

WTF do you think a ban on gay marriage does? Isn't the view point being pushed by proponents of the ban "gay marrige is not OK?"

Don't get it twisted homie this ban is a variation of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia"]Loving v. Virginia[/URL] which is to say it a clear violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment:

[quote]All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.[B] No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; [/B][B]nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.[/B][/quote]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

What I find so ironic is that so many members of the "small government" crowd think the government should decide whether people are afforded fundamental rights on the basis of their sexual preferences.

Also, big ups to Saden for citing [U]Loving v. Virginia[/U]. Dude knows his history. I don't necessarily think it violates the Equal Protection clause, but it's plain wrong to deny homosexuals the right to marry.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;498377]Again, I don't hate gays, but I don't think children should have that particular viewpoint forced on/presented to them as a valid option.[/quote]

But children, including homosexual children, should have the opposite viewpoint forced on them?

Also, there are millions of kids in this country who will NEVER get adopted. There are thousands of gay couples who try to adopt children. But you would rather see those kids NEVER get get adopted than to see them adopted by gay couples who are willing to spend thousands of dollars to raise a young child?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;498394]What I find so ironic is that so many members of the "small government" crowd think the government should decide whether people are afforded fundamental rights on the basis of their sexual preferences.

Also, big ups to Saden for citing [U]Loving v. Virginia[/U]. Dude knows his history. I don't necessarily think it violates the Equal Protection clause, but it's plain wrong to deny homosexuals the right to marry.[/quote]

I don't think they realize their argument goes something like this:

[quote]We think they [people of African ancestry] are . . . not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word "citizens" in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States. . . .

Chief Justice Roger B. Taney,
Speaking for the Majority
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford"]Dred Scott v. Sandford[/URL]
[/quote]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;498394]I don't necessarily think it[B] violates the Equal Protection clause[/B], but it's plain wrong to deny homosexuals the right to marry.[/quote]

Why not?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;498377][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/state.laws/index.html"]Link[/URL]. I know it's not popular, but I for one am very happy to see this measure pass. No one is saying that these individuals shouldn't have the right to live as they choose, but it supports the traditional definition of marriage being between a man and a woman. I'd also like to see more legislation to prevent anyone choosing to live an "alternative lifestyle" from adopting. Again, I don't hate gays, but I don't think children should have that particular viewpoint forced on/presented to them as a valid option.[/quote]


Couldn't you say the same thing about heterosexuality? And nobody is forcing views on anyone. Plenty of research has been done to show no correlation between being raised by gay parents and the child growing up to be gay.

In fact a girl I was friends with in high school, grew up with two mothers. Came out a 3.5 gpa student, heterosexual, went on to do good things with her life.

If you disagree with it from a religious standpoint, I can understand that. But just saying that being gay is an option isn't really how it works. It's not like by being around gay people you're "going to catch the gay"

That's almost like saying you don't want kids exposed to interracial couples because you don't want them to think that racially mixing is okay.

99% of the time, being gay isn't a choice. Ask anyone who's gay. Sure there are some with bad experiences that turn for solace in the same sex. But everyone that I know, and knowing myself (since I've dabbled in a few things before), I didn't ask for this. It's just the hand that gay people were dealt. I find it a bit troubling that people like to think that people consciously make a decision whether or not to love someone of the same sex or of the different sex.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;498397]Why not?[/quote]

Generally speaking, the Equal Protection clause has been used to strike down laws that discriminate on the basis of gender, race, national origin and religion. Laws prohibiting gay marriage [I]probably[/I] do not discriminate on the basis of any of those categories.

I say "probably" because some lawyers believe they discriminate on the basis of gender. They argue that laws prohibiting gay marriage deny couples marriage licenses on the basis of their "collective gender" (i.e., he's a man and his partner is a man, therefore they cannot marry) and therefore run afoul of the Equal Protection clause.

Most lawyers, however, do not look agree. Rather, they say the Equal Protection clause applies to individuals and no person is denied a marriage license on the basis of his or her gender. They also advance the somewhat circular argument that the right to marry means the right to have a relationship between two members of the opposite sex recognized by the state. So, laws prohibiting gay "marriage" do not deny homosexuals any recognized/traditional right.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

The only place I feel that the gay movement is overextending is showing 2nd graders (or some very young group of children) a book called the prince and the prince (as opposed to the prince and the princess). However it's kind of funny how it ended up uniting two groups of biggots to supress the rights of another group of people.

I can't even think of a fair way to not allow gay marriage. The closest thing is people might abuse it to get tax breaks and maybe take advantage of the rule in which you can't testify about what a spouse told you. However thats a huge reach and you can do the same thing with straight couples.

I'm tired of the conservative movement and one of the things that make me jump for joy is the fact that the Supreme Court Justices will probably be more on the liberal side and hopefully undo the damage of the uptight neocon judges. Hopefully the liberals don't let me down this time.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;498420]Generally speaking, the Equal Protection clause has been used to strike down laws that discriminate on the basis of gender, race, national origin and religion. Laws prohibiting gay marriage probably do not discriminate on the basis of any of those categories.

I say "probably" because some lawyers believe they discriminate on the basis of gender. They argue that laws prohibiting gay marriage deny couples marriage licenses on the basis of their "collective gender" (i.e., he's a man and his partner is a man, therefore they cannot marry) and therefore run afoul of the Equal Protection clause.

Most lawyers, however, do not look agree. Rather, they say the Equal Protection clause applies to individuals and no person is denied a marriage license on the basis of his or her gender. They also advance the somewhat circular argument that the right to marry means the right to have a relationship between two members of the opposite sex recognized by the state. So, laws prohibiting gay "marriage" do not deny homosexuals any recognized/traditional right.[/quote]

Does it not depend on the [URL="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/19.html"]standards used for review[/URL]? Under traditional restrained review I don't see how these laws don't violate the equal protection clause on the basis of economic hardship (i.e. some common law marriage laws do not automatically protect a partner from family members of a deceased partner from laying claim to their collective assets) or on the basis of "invidious discrimination."

[quote]
The traditional standard of review of equal protection challenges of classifications developed largely though not entirely in the context of economic regulation.

''The Fourteenth Amendment enjoins 'the equal protection of the laws,' and laws are not abstract propositions.'' Justice Frankfurter once wrote. ''They do not relate to abstract units, A, B, and C, but are expressions of policy arising out of specific difficulties, addressed to the attainment of specific ends by the use of specific remedies. The Constitution does not require things which are different in fact or opinion to be treated in law as though they were the same.'' The mere fact of classification will not void legislation, then, because in the exercise of its powers a legislature has considerable discretion in recognizing the differences between and among persons and situations. ''[B]Class legislation, discriminating against some and favoring others, is prohibited[/B]; but legislation which, in carrying out a public purpose, is limited in its application, if within the sphere of its operation [B]it affects alike all persons similarly situated[/B], is not within the amendment.'' Or, more succinctly, ''statutes create many classifications which do not deny equal protection; it is only '[B]invidious discrimination[/B]' which offends the Constitution.'[/quote]Under the new active review ban on gay marriage is clear cut violation of the equal protection clause.

[quote]When government legislates or acts either on the basis of a ''suspect'' classification or with regard to a ''fundamental'' interest, the traditional standard of equal protection review is abandoned, and the Court exercises a ''strict scrutiny.'' Under this standard government must demonstrate a high degree of need, and usually little or no presumption favoring the classification is to be expected.

Paradigmatic of ''suspect'' categories is classification by race. First in the line of cases dealing with this issue is Korematsu v. United States, concerning the wartime evacuation of Japanese- Americans from the West Coast, in which the Court said that because only a single ethnic-racial group was involved the measure was ''immediately suspect'' and subject to ''rigid scrutiny.'' The school segregation cases purported to enunciate no per se rule, however, although subsequent summary treatment of a host of segregation measures may have implicitly done so, until in striking down state laws prohibiting interracial marriage or cohabitation the Court declared that racial classifications ''[B]bear a far heavier burden of justification[/B]'' than other classifications and were invalid because no ''[B]overriding statutory purpose[/B]'' was shown and they were not necessary to some ''[B]legitimate overriding purpose.[/B]'' ''A racial classification, regardless of purported motivation, is presumptively invalid and can be upheld only upon an extraordinary justification.''Remedial racial classifications, that is, the development of ''affirmative action'' or similar programs that classify on the basis of race for the purpose of ameliorating conditions resulting from past discrimination, are subject to more than traditional review scrutiny, but whether the highest or some intermediate standard is the applicable test is uncertain. A measure which does not draw a distinction explicitly on race but which does draw a line between those who seek to use the law to do away with or modify racial discrimination and those who oppose such efforts does in fact create an explicit racial classification and is constitutionally suspect.

Toward the end of the Warren Court, there emerged a trend [B]to treat classifications on the basis of nationality or alienage as suspect, to accord sex classifications a somewhat heightened traditional review while hinting that a higher standard might be appropriate if such classifications passed lenient review[/B], and to pass on statutory and administrative treatments of illegitimates inconsistently.
[/quote]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;498446]The only place I feel that the gay movement is overextending is showing 2nd graders (or some very young group of children) a book called the prince and the prince (as opposed to the prince and the princess). However it's kind of funny how it ended up uniting two groups of biggots to supress the rights of another group of people.

I can't even think of a fair way to not allow gay marriage. The closest thing is people might abuse it to get tax breaks and maybe take advantage of the rule in which you can't testify about what a spouse told you. However thats a huge reach and you can do the same thing with straight couples.

I'm tired of the conservative movement and one of the things that make me jump for joy is the fact that the Supreme Court Justices will probably be more on the liberal side and hopefully undo the damage of the uptight neocon judges. Hopefully the liberals don't let me down this time.[/quote]

Alito, Thomas, Roberts aren't going anywhere any time soon and if Scalia (72) and Kennedy (72) have good genes they'll be around for a while. Thankfully Obama will get to replace all the non-conservative judges.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;498390]WTF do you think a ban on gay marriage does? [B]Isn't the view point being pushed by proponents of the ban "gay marrige is not OK?"
[/B]
Don't get it twisted homie this ban is a variation of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia"]Loving v. Virginia[/URL] which is to say it a clear violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment:[/quote]

To my way of thinking, the homosexual lifestyle is inherently wrong. So that's why I have no issue with children having the natural order of things "forced" upon them. That's my problem with it. I'm not forcing my views on others in that they wouldn't be able to do what they want, I'm saying children should be protected from something that is immoral and wrong on a fundamental level. Everybody's got their opinions and positions, this one is mine. It's not based in hatred, it's based on my own sense of right and wrong. And for what it's worth, in the three states where it came up for vote, the majority of citizens agreed with me.