Redskins Release Torrence
 

I can't say I'm a big fan of the [URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/11/skins_cut_torrence_sign_hall.html"]decision[/URL] to cut Torrence. Hall is worth a gamble, but I can think of several Redskins who should have been cut before Torrence. I realize the Madden crowd LOVES Hall and hates UFAs like Torrence, but Leigh was playing well this season.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

There has to be some kind of legit reason for this move. I sure can't figure it out.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I personally think it could be bad for team chemistry. One player said, "I'm about to cry. Why would they let Leigh go? That dude did a good job for us and was only getting better. That does'nt make sense." Then you have Rogers questioning how 4 guys who are used to starting are going to get playing time. Time will tell I guess.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

My initial reaction is that it is problematic to bring in a guy with a history of disruptive locker room behavior and get rid of a well likde guy who is a hard worker and special teams contributor. I cringed whenever Torrence was in coverage but it seems like there were some other guys who could have cleared waivers and gotten on to the practice team at least (was someone really going to claim Rob Jackson or Justin Tryon?). I've never been in an NFL locker room so I don't know how much 'chemistry' is overrated, but it seems like a move such as this one could disrupt a tight locker room, at least in the short term. I do not have a problem with bringing in Hall on the cheap, I just wonder if cutting a well liked guy like Torrence in order to do so might have any ripple effects. I guess you can say they are professionals, but that has to damage morale to some degree.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

wow...i wouldve have cut tyron well before torrence...now i know torrence hasnt been outstanding, but he be good...im guessing we want to go with the rookies instead of a veteran

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Not surprised.
Torrence at his best is an OK 3rd or 4th corner. Tryon has a solid future, He just needs time. There is no way we can go with 6 corners, one of them had to get cut.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

The big concern goes back to the "can we all get along" factor. This worries me a little. But I do think if we waived Tryon another team would have grabbed him. I have really mixed feelings, and until we see the difference on the D's play, I will hope for the best, with a lingering sense of unease.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;498927]The big concern goes back to the "can we all get along" factor. This worries me a little. But I do think if we waived Tryon another team would have grabbed him. I have really mixed feelings, and until we see the difference on the D's play, I will hope for the best, with a lingering sense of unease.[/quote]

That's it in a nutshell.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Not a big fan of this move. I've been a bit disappointed in Torrence's performance this season. Not that it's been bad, but that it appeared from training camp and preseason that we was going to take his game to the next level and I haven't seen that really to this point in the season.

That said though, as SGG says there are other people who should have been cut first and we should have looked as Hall as an added player, not a replacement. I'm guessing they're making room for WR depth

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

i still think tryon was who Id have cut. torrence was fast and looked halfway decent, especially for a fourth corner.

as far as carols's comments, id like to ask how often it is that any of our top 3 corners are even healthy at the same time. its been a rarity for years due to their physical play. i like bringin in hall, but not cutting torrence for him.

it may be a great move, though... we'll see.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=jamf;498924]Not surprised.
Torrence at his best is an OK 3rd or 4th corner. Tryon has a solid future, He just needs time. There is no way we can go with 6 corners, one of them had to get cut.[/quote]


i gotta agree with you. the plan is prolly for hall and rogers to be the starting cbs next season with smoot being the #3 cb. springs will be let go.

of course this is dependant on hall playing at a high level.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I liked Leigh, he seemed like a hard worker and he really seemed to be stepping up this year. That said, he was a bit of a liability in coverage, and based on talent alone Hall is certainly an upgrade. Hopefully Hall will approach this as his last chance. It's a one year deal, and if he F's around here who's gonna give him the kind of contract he wants.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Talk about alienating the team, this was a dumb move. Torrence was a favorite of Gibbs and obviously the players, a pretty solid special teamer and getting better as a corner. Why cut this guy to sign a punk like Hall? Tryon should have been cut.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

This is a modified post, due to new thread.

I'm just a little surprised at this move. Because Torrence certainly isn't very much, ok teamer/bottom barrel corner. But he was serviceable now.

With that said. That is more than I can say for Tyron (Which I don't ever think will be any good) or Kelly standing on the sidelines with street cloths on.

I have never been a fan of Torrence for the record.

I don't think this Torrence move has any effect on anything, in the locker room or on the field, we need the next in line to step up and be a gunner.

Hall was brought here to play solid football and be a good teammate nothing more or less, it's a seven game trial.

Now we need a WR to replace Kelly and/or knows how to play football better than Thomas, for the stretch run. Both these kids might be ok down the road but we are getting no production out of Kelly and little to none out of Thomas.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins_Sign_Hall__Release_Torrence_26837.jsp"]Redskins Sign Hall, Release Torrence[/URL]

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'm certainly not crazy about this move, and from a purely on the field standpoint, the only thing this move does is shave two years off our CB situation. Hall is certainly no better (but likely not any worse) than Torrence at this point in their careers. So, yeah, Hall makes sense from a standpoint of needing to get deeper in the secondary, but this move just nullifies that.

And can we stop hating on Tryon for no reason now? The guy is under contract through 2010 and he's played about 5 downs in the NFL, and didn't blow a single coverage. So what's the deal?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

wonder if dallas will pick up torrence?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Good question Tripp.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

As fans we don't understand stuff like this but behind the scenes the NFL is still a business. The coaching staff had to have their reasons maybe a little backlash by the fans will get a solid answer....who knows. Torrence did allow Avery to catch that prayer from Bulger but i wouldn't pin the loss on him though considering the offense had 3 turnovers in that game. The big ? is who replaces him as the gunner on punts. I'm sure its not Hall.

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[quote=JankySpanky80;498946] The big ? is who replaces him as the gunner on punts. I'm sure its not Hall.[/quote]

Kareem Moore?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

If Hall can hold on to the ball, he should actually be returning punts.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=GTripp0012;498950]If Hall can hold on to the ball, he should actually be returning punts.[/quote]
Hopefully that works out b/c ARE just don't have it any more. Moss showed him how it is done.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Two takes on the Torrence release, Redskin Insider:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

not a fan of cutting torrence... saying hall is comparable to torrence or worse is f'ing ridiculous though. I would have rather tossed tryon too... he's terrible.

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Torrence was a joke I'm glad he's gone! Bye Bye Politician Leigh!!!

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I was surprised it was Torrence but no big deal. Cutting Tryon wouldn't have made us a better team than if we cut Torrence. There's not much difference once you get to past the 50th man on the roster.

I hope we see Hall at the 3rd CB and starting PR vs. Dallas.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

Well, Torrence did commit that holding penalty in the Lions game...

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I'm definitely not a huge fan of the move. It looks like Vinny is trying really hard to ride with all of his draft picks through the season(not including Brooks). Tryon or Rob Jackson could've easily been cut considering they probably would've passed waivers and could have been signed to the PS. All I have to say is that Malcolm Kelly better be ready to play against the Cowboys because it will look real funny when he can't go and we could've put him on IR instead of releasing Torrence. Torrence isn't the best CB in the world, but he played solidly for us these past two seasons, he was decent on special teams, and he knows the defense well.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

I am totally shocked...Torrence was a very solid #4 cb.
Can we really say he was the worst player on the team?...hardly.
Was he even the worst CB....no way....Tryon is crap right now.

Why not release Tryon, he would certainly clear waivers...then we could stick him on the practice squad where he belongs anyways.

Not to mention, the bad blood this will create in the locker room, Hall will now be seen as the guy that got Torrence cut....according to this story, the team loved Torrence
[url=http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/falcons/stories/2008/11/08/falcons_deangelo_hall.html]Redskins cut former Falcon to make room for Hall | ajc.com[/url]

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsnut;498982]I am totally shocked...Torrence was a very solid #4 cb.
Can we really say he was the worst player on the team?...hardly.
Was he even the worst CB....no way....Tryon is crap right now.

Why not release Tryon, he would certainly clear waivers...then we could stick him on the practice squad where he belongs anyways.

[B] Not to mention, the bad blood this will create in the locker room, Hall will now be seen as the guy that got Torrence cut[/B]....according to this story, the team loved Torrence
[URL="http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/falcons/stories/2008/11/08/falcons_deangelo_hall.html"]Redskins cut former Falcon to make room for Hall | ajc.com[/URL][/quote]

These guys understand this is a business. You make the best business decisions you have to with the information you have or based on what the head coach and Co. wants.

Its a story. Thats all. And you are basing there will be bad blood in the locker room on that? There are always players or close friends on the team that hate to see another player cut, but they will forget all about Torrence very quickly.

To many vets that have been in this business for to long and understand it well, the weak link or odd man out is the first to go.

Torrence being let go will NOT create any bad blood in the locker room, this team wants to go somewhere, like to a super bowl. This team wants the best group of players on that field and roster period, no matter what the Monday morning QB's think.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

When Hall gets his first pick 6 the team will quickly forget allll about that mediocre player. Leigh Who????

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;498983]
Torrence being let go will NOT create any bad blood in the locker room[/quote]


I sure hope you are right.
But my worry about causing a rift in the locker room is not just do to a shocking cut from a hard working well liked player....it is in combination with the well known arrogance and jawing of Hall, plus the major payday he got and the subsequent crappy play.

All I'm saying is, thats a bad start for Hall, not an ideal welcoming scenario.
Hopefully Hall kicks some serious butt and earns the respect of his new teammates....Ideally, he will do good enough but not fantastic so we can retain him long term so he can develop into a #2 or #3.
Too bad we dont have Torrence who was a quality #4, who would have been a phenominal #5...I am obviously bummed.
Pehaps Tryon is way better in practice than he was in preseason...that is something that none of us know...it MUST be the case...it is the ONLY thing that would explain the Torrence cut.

I am sure Torrence will be picked up...he is a quality #4 and is serviceable as a short term #3....I wouldn't be shocked if the Gmen picked him up.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=GTripp0012;498943] Hall is certainly no better (but likely not any worse) than Torrence at this point in their careers. [/quote]

what ? hall is much better than torrence. hall has been to 2 probowls, has 20 ints in his carreer,including 3 this year. what are torrece's numbers ? hall is a #1 caliber cb and has the ability to shut down a wr. he struggled a bit in oakland but that should not be used in judging his talent.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

If Hall is a #1 caliber CB, explain how he 1) hits the free agent market in November, and 2) on the OPEN MARKET, gets offered less than Torrence is making.

No personnel guy in the NFL thinks Hall is actually a No. 1 corner. The pro bowls hes been to are total bs because he was seen as a hot prospect. If he can get three interceptions in a season, it means no one is afraid to throw on him. Right now, Rogers is getting targeted 5-7 times a game. With Hall in, expect that number to fall to the 2-4 range.

Why in the world shouldn't what happened in Oakland not be used to judge his talent?! Should we not look at Pac Man Jones as a problem child for the Cowboys because a majority of his off the field issues occurred in Tennessee?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=GTripp0012;498990]If Hall is a #1 caliber CB, explain how he 1) hits the free agent market in November, and 2) on the OPEN MARKET, gets offered less than Torrence is making.

No personnel guy in the NFL thinks Hall is actually a No. 1 corner. The pro bowls hes been to are total bs because he was seen as a hot prospect. If he can get three interceptions in a season, it means no one is afraid to throw on him. Right now, Rogers is getting targeted 5-7 times a game. With Hall in, expect that number to fall to the 2-4 range.[/quote]
I seriously doubt Hall will be starting opposite of Rogers right away. If Springs and Smoot are healthy i'm looking at Hall as our #4 CB.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=RMSkins;498991]I seriously doubt Hall will be starting opposite of Rogers right away. If Springs and Smoot are healthy i'm looking at Hall as our #4 CB.[/quote]Yeah, I agree. If Springs is healthy, I could see Smoot and Hall splitting time.

Problem comes if Springs isn't healthy, why would anyone ever throw against Rogers? We play the exact same man coverage scheme that Oakland does, so Hall is just as bad a fit for our D as he was in Oakland. Outside of the fact that he doesn't figure to be in the starting lineup (like you said) I fail to see how this is any better of a situation for the guys' talents than Jokeland.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

[quote=GTripp0012;498990]If Hall is a #1 caliber CB, explain how he 1) hits the free agent market in November, and 2) on the OPEN MARKET, gets offered less than Torrence is making.

No personnel guy in the NFL thinks Hall is actually a No. 1 corner. The pro bowls hes been to are total bs because he was seen as a hot prospect. If he can get three interceptions in a season, it means no one is afraid to throw on him. Right now, Rogers is getting targeted 5-7 times a game. With Hall in, expect that number to fall to the 2-4 range.[/quote]

I believe Hall is currently a legit #3 on our team...but due to the fact that Smoot knows the defense and is familiar with how the secondary plays, he has a huge leg up which will last for weeks. Right now Hall is Torrence's replacement, no more, no less.
And that may be a great place for him since playing nickle provides many more int opportunities than playing 1 on 1. 3rd or 4th CB may just be the best place for this kid long term....
It is possible for him to develop into a #2 within 2 years of heavy training...a #1 would be a stretch but possible.

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

As a nickel back covering the slot receiver, I think Hall could be pretty good. But, the biggest problem with the defense is that Smoot's not really cut out to be isolated on the outside in a man coverage scheme like Rogers and Springs are.

So now we have Hall, who is more physically talented than Smoot, but basically shares all of his coverage deficiencies, without the guts to come up and hit someone in the running game. So, outside of on dime coverages, I can't see a situation where Smoot and Hall could be in the game at the same time, and we wouldn't be awful.

Of course, I think you could say the same about those plays that Torrence and Smoot were in, but I thought Torrence was improving at least. That's the big reason I don't like this move: it doesn't really make us any better. We still need Springs healthy as much as ever.

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And yes, we probably have the best dime unit in the league now ;) I don't want to take that away from us. Carter, C. Wilson, Evans, L. Alexander, Fletcher, Rogers, Springs, Hall, Smoot, Landry, and Horton. That's a pretty fierce 11 guys.

Does anyone else find it surprising that 5 days ago, we had enough confidence in Torrence to put him in man coverage on Hines Ward the whole night, and now, he's not even on the team?

Re: Redskins Release Torrence
 

And now we've added three former probowlers since training camp opened, which has to be some sort of record.

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Definitely not a fan of dropping Torrence. With the condition of the defense, i guess it had to be him. He also had poor showings against Detroit and St Louis. If Malcolm goes on the IR, we might pick him back up.