Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfV8iXiB9Xg]YouTube - RAHM EMANUEL TALKING ABOUT A NATIONAL DRAFT[/ame]

Wow. I can't wait for my three months of mandatory defense training.:doh:

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Well, currently we are the only all volunteer military in the world. Everywhere else there is a mandatory 2 years of service. The rest of the world does not seem to feel as if their liberty is being taken away. The only reason that people would bitch about doing it is because no one ever had to do it prior to now.

Come on, it's only 3 months versus 2 years and there are always exceptions to "mandatory training".

Of course, I wouldn't have to do it so I really don't care. I have already served my country. But honestly I would have to tell you that I always felt that 2 years of Federal service should be required of Americans too. Politicians on the other hand always revert back to believing that an all volunteer Military is better. You guys could get off clean with only 3 months. That’s just enough training to go out there and get your asses whooped respectfully. Three months isn’t bad at all, stop crying. Besides it isn’t even a Bill yet.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

When I was in the Army, I served in Germany where the men had a 2yr compulsory obligation. Guess what, they looked at it with pride and a sense of duty to country. Every German man I knew felt that way (I married a German, lived on the economy ...) It's not a bad thing.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;499976]When I was in the Army, I served in Germany where the men had a [B]2yr compulsory obligation[/B]. Guess what, they looked at it with pride and a sense of duty to country. Every German man I knew felt that way (I married a German, lived on the economy ...) It's not a bad thing.[/quote]

Thats what I was refering to as well. Hell, in Israel it's (2 years) mandatory for women too.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Definitely agree with this initiative. Hopefully, after it's implemented they'll bump it up to 6-12 months. I think Germany allows for people to choose some other form of community service commitment rather than military under particular circumstances.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Isn't this taken from an interview with Emanuel in 2006? Is there any current info on this? I don't see anything mandatory here

[url=http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/]Barack Obama and Joe Biden: The Change We Need | Service[/url]

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

I never liked that dude. Even if he supports it and presents the idea, its not going to get passed.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=firstdown;499992]Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.[/quote]

Yeah, the media is completely out to get bush and co. It has nothing to do with the fact that he is a goddamn cocky retard. "I will track down evildoers..."

What is he fucking batman? I disagree with the initiative but bush and co get off way too easy for the piss poor leadership of the last 8 years. The republicans are fully aware of it. Hence McCain. Only they decided to jump on McCains bandwagon 8yrs too late.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

This is exactly the type of stuff that SHOULDN'T go on in our country. Our country was founded on the principles of a weak federal gov't that had the capability to provide national defense and some semblance of coordination between 50 SEPERATE states with common goals. Not some giant monolith that ruled over everyone. We have wandered so far from that original objective. If he wants to institute something like this because we need more military people then stop bullshitting and call it a draft. Stop trying to pretty it up with some emotional argument about "common experience". This type of thinking would be completely counter to what our country was founded on really. FORCING people to do something. Of course I guess our conutry is becoming more and more about forcing people to do things everyday. And I don't care what other countries do. The old adage about jumping off a bridge because your friend did it first comes to mind. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it right.

I hope Obama doesn't hold this same thought. I do worry though that his foundational thinking isn't as contrary as I think it would be.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;500025]but bush and co get off way too easy for the piss poor leadership of the last 8 years[/quote]

Are you kidding?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

I like the idea, but 3 months!?!?!? Thanks kind of a joke...............and a waste of time! If you're going to do it; do it right! Make it at least one year.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=firstdown;499992]Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.[/quote]
They'd call him a Nazi (again).

So, scared yet people? :D

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

You know what I really want to do? I want to do all that cool stuff national guardsmen do without the possibility of having to go to war, get a stop-loss letter, and then lose my job. That's not too much to ask is it? I'm willing to dig ditches, throw sandbags, and protect the people in the event of a zombie epidemic.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=firstdown;499992]Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.[/quote]

The media argument is getting tiring. You know it's played out when Shep Smith is getting tired.

[yt]PHKzS5Zl6mY[/yt]

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=FRPLG;500033]Are you kidding?[/quote]

Do I look like I'm kidding? >:(

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Its a bad idea because its a waste of money. No one truly benefits. Its like the 2 and 3 year army terms. The biggest expense the army takes on with recruits is advertising/recruiting and training. This includes the mont. GI bill. Why spend that much $ on someone and have them leave before they can be of service to you.

I can't imagine dedicating resources to 3 months of training. What do you really gain? I guess that would be the new focus of recruiting. "Hey you've already done three months, why not stay...". Not to mention they would have their undivided attention for those 3 months.

But the first 18yr old that dies in an accident or from heat exhaustion that didn't want to be a part of it would result in a huge media circus and no doubt the aclu would have a new purpose (other than defending perverts)

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=firstdown;499992]Wow, so far most people agree but it seems most here agreeing served. If Bush had sugested this the press would be going nuts about forcing people to serve. They would be using words like slavery and things like that.[/quote]

If nothing else, you know at least one person (sound like clek35) would be all over it.

There have been at least 4 years (as long as I've been here) of Bush bashing threads (some deserved, several not so much) so there shouldn't be much complaining if the tide is turned now and Obama and the members of his administration are scrutinized and criticized at every turn.

That said, for the love of God man, can we just drop this until at least the off-season? How is no one sick of this political talk yet?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=saden1;500042]You know what I really want to do? I want to do all that cool stuff national guardsmen do without the possibility of having to go to war, get a stop-loss letter, and then lose my job. That's not too much to ask is it? I'm willing to dig ditches, throw sandbags, and protect the people in the event of a zombie epidemic.[/quote]

You know they have something very similar to that. Its called the coast guard. I have some friends who went after high school. I kick myself all the time for not going as well.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;500025]Yeah, the media is completely out to get bush and co. It has nothing to do with the fact that he is a goddamn cocky retard. "I will track down evildoers..."

[B]What is he fucking batman? [/B] I disagree with the initiative but bush and co get off way too easy for the piss poor leadership of the last 8 years. The republicans are fully aware of it. Hence McCain. Only they decided to jump on McCains bandwagon 8yrs too late.[/quote]

I love that line.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;500052]Its a bad idea because its a waste of money. No one truly benefits. Its like the 2 and 3 year army terms. [B]The biggest expense the army takes on with recruits is advertising/recruiting and training. This includes the mont. GI bill. Why spend that much $ on someone and have them leave before they can be of service to you[/B].

I can't imagine dedicating resources to 3 months of training. What do you really gain? I guess that would be the new focus of recruiting. "Hey you've already done three months, why not stay...". Not to mention they would have their undivided attention for those 3 months.

But the first 18yr old that dies in an accident or from heat exhaustion that didn't want to be a part of it would result in a huge media circus and no doubt the aclu would have a new purpose (other than defending perverts)[/quote]

If it's mandatory you wouldn't be advertising or recruiting. The GI Bill requires a $1200 contribution on the individual's part and served for at least 3 years active duty (at least it did in 1995).

Also, a conscientous objector most probably would be able to fulfill his commitment doing some other form of civil service, as is the case in other countries.

I won't argue that obviously there will need to be funding for this program, though. Just maybe not as much as one might think. A lot of details need to be ironned out but who knows. I can see a sort of hybrid JobCorp-National Defense being presented.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=FRPLG;500032]This is exactly the type of stuff that SHOULDN'T go on in our country. Our country was founded on the principles of a weak federal gov't that had the capability to provide national defense and some semblance of coordination between 50 SEPERATE states with common goals. Not some giant monolith that ruled over everyone. We have wandered so far from that original objective. If he wants to institute something like this because we need more military people then stop bullshitting and call it a draft. Stop trying to pretty it up with some emotional argument about "common experience". This type of thinking would be completely counter to what our country was founded on really. FORCING people to do something. Of course I guess our conutry is becoming more and more about forcing people to do things everyday. And I don't care what other countries do. The old adage about jumping off a bridge because your friend did it first comes to mind. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it right.

I hope Obama doesn't hold this same thought. I do worry though that his foundational thinking isn't as contrary as I think it would be.[/quote]

We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;500118]We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?[/quote]


come on now, that has to be the most retarded comparison i've ever heard. are you really trying to make a connection between education in math, science, history,etc.. to learning military tactics ?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

what's next, taking babies from their families and forcing them to learn gymnastics and compete in the olympics ?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=wolfeskins;500161]come on now, that has to be the most retarded comparison i've ever heard. are you really trying to make a connection between education in math, science, history,etc.. to learning military tactics ?[/quote]

Yes, because military training teaches you map reading, history, math, land navigation, first aid, physical education, problem solving, communication skills, and it makes you grow the hell up really quick because they instill discipline.

Why do yo think that employers try to snatch us up so quickly? Because our training goes beyond the battlefield. Tactics and how to shoot a rifle are only a portion of the skills learned by the soldier.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;500118]We force our children to go to school everyday, hell, its even backed by law. Why do we do it? Because we want some sort of baseline education for all Americans. Education provides better opportunities for success. Not everyone has to go to college.

What would this Mandatory Defense Training provide? A baseline education in combat skills and survival for all Americans. It will provide them with greater opportunities for success. Not everyone has to sign up for full blown Military service.

You probably supported the removal of PE from schools too, didn't you?[/quote]

Educating children isn't quite the same in my book. We don't force people to go to college. There are defined lines we already have.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;500187]Yes, because military training teaches you map reading, history, math, land navigation, first aid, physical education, problem solving, communication skills, and it makes you grow the hell up really quick because they instill discipline.

Why do yo think that employers try to snatch us up so quickly? Because our training goes beyond the battlefield. Tactics and how to shoot a rifle are only a portion of the skills learned by the soldier.[/quote]

Sounds like a perfect solution to our obesity problem.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=saden1;500210]Sounds like a perfect solution to our obesity problem.[/quote]

Always a commedian.

Look, to all of those who disagree with me, I feel that you all have valid arguments. However, I also feel that most of you share those points of view because you have no first hand experience. Ask anyone who has served, or at least been through basic training or boot camp. I would be willing to wager that the majority would say that they would do it all over again if they were could go back in time and change their lives.

In my honest opinion, I believe that it is an experience that most would benefit from, whether they felt forced at first or not. Like many of our mothers used to tell us "how do you know that you won't like it until you try it"?

Anyway, I have already expressed my opinion on it, and that view will not change. I will not argue this issue any further. I do not think that the forthcomming administration has the nuts to try and pass this anyway, so why do we even bother ourselves with the concecpt?

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

Amendment 13 of the United States Constitution:

"Neither slavery [B]nor involuntary servitude[/B], except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, [B]shall exist within the United States[/B], or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Sounds pretty damn unconstitutional if you ask me.

But then, that's never stopped anybody.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Beemnseven;500234]Amendment 13 of the United States Constitution:

"Neither slavery [B]nor involuntary servitude[/B], except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, [B]shall exist within the United States[/B], or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Sounds pretty damn unconstitutional if you ask me.

But then, that's never stopped anybody.[/quote]

Jury Duty is not involuntary servitutude? At least you get somewhat of a paycheck in the service.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Beemnseven;500234]Amendment 13 of the United States Constitution:

"Neither slavery [B]nor involuntary servitude[/B], except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, [B]shall exist within the United States[/B], or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Sounds pretty damn unconstitutional if you ask me.

But then, that's never stopped anybody.[/quote]

You mean to tell me Republican "leaders" and future "leaders" don't have to fake a medical problems or pretend to be going to school to get out of being draft or serving?

[yt]J1UYquKlfT0[/yt]

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=saden1;500240]You mean to tell me Republican "leaders" and future "leaders" don't have to fake a medical problems or pretend to be going to school to get out of being draft or serving?

[yt]J1UYquKlfT0[/yt][/quote]

I have asthma too. I got a waiver thanks to all of those years I spent playing football.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

what I took from that video was the part about how if we didn't have abortions, we would not need illigal immigrants to work those jobs...

there are so many nuts on both sides of the fence a squirrel wouldn't know which side to jump off on.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;500244]what I took from that video was the part about how if we didn't have abortions, we would not need illigal immigrants to work those jobs...

there are so many nuts on both sides of the fence a squirrel wouldn't know which side to jump off on.[/quote]

I did not realize that there were people in high places that are that dumb.
I gave Bush, Palin, Cheyne, and McCain more credit than that.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;500245]I did not realize that there were people in high places that are that dumb.
I gave Bush, Palin, Cheyne, and McCain more credit than that.[/quote]

It's one thing to be a flaming-liberal-socialist-anti-corporation-tree-hugger, hell, even communist, it's another thing to be borderline retarded. Or perhaps they're playing the odds seeing how they actually get people to vote for them. The mind numbing insanity is unbelievable.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;499976]When I was in the Army, I served in Germany where the men had a 2yr compulsory obligation. Guess what, they looked at it with pride and a sense of duty to country. Every German man I knew felt that way (I married a German, lived on the economy ...) It's not a bad thing.[/quote]


I'm not sure we should look to the Germans as role models in this area.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

it's really not that big a deal and maybe it'd cut down on the whining and super ultra PC crowd.

It'll never pass, but 3 months isn't like the 2 years most other country do.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=70Chip;500347]I'm not sure we should look to the Germans as role models in this area.[/quote]

yeah, cause it's still 1935 in your eyes, right? seriously :/.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;499974]Well, currently we are the only all volunteer military in the world. Everywhere else there is a mandatory 2 years of service. The rest of the world does not seem to feel as if their liberty is being taken away. The only reason that people would bitch about doing it is because no one ever had to do it prior to now.

Come on, it's only 3 months versus 2 years and there are always exceptions to "mandatory training".

Of course, I wouldn't have to do it so I really don't care. I have already served my country. But honestly I would have to tell you that I always felt that 2 years of Federal service should be required of Americans too. Politicians on the other hand always revert back to believing that an all volunteer Military is better. You guys could get off clean with only 3 months. That’s just enough training to go out there and get your asses whooped respectfully. Three months isn’t bad at all, stop crying. Besides it isn’t even a Bill yet.[/quote]

Than explain what a free society is ? B/c Gov't doens't own its citizens. Or would you prefer to burn the constitution and re-write it with a pencil to erase at later use?

Only change Obama will bring is a slightly less obscure vision of the same. He is an 11th cousin to Bush/8th cousin to Chaney. Same game different day.

Ron Paul 2012.

Re: Obama's Chief of Staff Promoting Mandatory Defense Training
 

[quote=Angry;499974]Well, currently we are the only all volunteer military in the world. Everywhere else there is a mandatory 2 years of service. [/quote]

What utter bollocks! Where are you getting your numbers from? I was part of the UK's volunteer force, and there's about another 60 countries where it's volunteer only.

Please post proof or stop making idiotic statements.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_military]Volunteer military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

:rant:

As for the Bundeswehr:

[url=http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3167049,00.html]German Army Drinks and Smokes Too Much, Ombudsman Says | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 04.03.2008[/url]


[I]Reinhold Robbe's 2008 report, which he presented to his employer, the German parliament, on Tuesday, March 4, said that more than 40 percent of the country's soldiers were overweight and over 70 percent were regular smokers. Sports often played a minor role in the army, and the soldiers' physical abilities were alarming, the ombudsman said. The German army was suffering from the effects of a passive lifestyle.[/I]