I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

The Redskins offense averaged 6.26 yards per play in the first half.

6.26!

6.26!

And scored only seven points. Because they can't sustain drives. (44% Success Rate, one successful 5 yard run by Portis).

I'm guessing there's no way this success continues in the second half, because the Redskins would have won the game.

[B]First half Goats

#1 and #2 is Greg Blache

[/B]Because the Giants averaged a totally ridiculous 7.03 yards per play and sustained every drive they had, never punting in the first half.

The Redskins blitzed 11 times in the rain in the first half. THEY GAVE UP EIGHT STRAIGHT SUCCESSFUL PLAYS ON BLITZES. If the definition of insanity is, in fact, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, stadium security should have arrested Blache at halftime.

It wasn't just that the blitzes weren't working because our coverage was poor, it's that we never got remotely close to Manning on a blitz the entire half, and he and coordinator Kevin Gilbride diagnosed every single blitz pre-snap. The Giants got three plays of 25 yards or more off of Redskins blitzes.

Also, it WAS RAINING!!! What the hell are we doing sending people after the quarterback when we had no traction?

Steve Spagnuolo blitzed twice the entire half. That's why he's a champion coordinator, and Blache is a re-tread.

[B]#3 CBs DeAngelo Hall and Fred Smoot

[/B]Hall, really, really stinks in coverage. Blache has a man-crush on him though. Hall defensed a pass nicely on a play where Manning was pressured, and he intercepted a pass that Manning put in a perfect spot on Hixon's body, but Hixon didn't know was being thrown. I'll never trash Hall's ability to locate the ball in the air, because he has an uncanny ability to locate a football in flight, but he's rarely in position to do so.

Outside of those two plays, here's Hall's first half:

-Beaten on a slant by Toomer, misses the tackle, and then late hits Toomer after the play, accounting for 23 total yards allowed.

-Beaten on a simple option route by Steve Smith for 11 yards and a first down.

-Hall falls down as soon as Toomer makes an in cut. Give him a break because the field is slick, I suppose. 17 yards against.

-10.2 yards per target in the first half for Hall. It looks better with the pick, of course.

Smoot got toasted by Toomer on the 40 yard TD pass, and was responsble for Steve Smith on the throw that looked like it hit the ground at the two minute warning.

So either Amani Toomer is an elite NFL receiver, or our coverage is terrible.

Rogers didn't have a great half either, but compared to those two, he was brilliant.

[B]#4 Redskins WRs

[/B]James Thrash had two third down targets and converted neither. First one, he got screwed when the official got in his way and forced him to alter his route, but the second one was a great throw by Campbell against 8 man coverage, and Thrash flat dropped it.

Moss, Randle El, and Kelly each had one key drop each in the first half. Randle El's was the worst because he allowed the coverage to strip a football that Campbell got to him with more than enough time to secure it. Campbell struggled just a little bit more than Eli Manning did to throw the ball in the conditions, as I counted three times where his throw missed it's mark by enough to cause a drop or deflected pass. However, if the receivers catch the ball, the Redskins have 17, or maybe 20 points at half easily.

[B]#5 Special Teams

[/B]They suck, except the kick return team, which gave the offense average to great field position on all four kick returns. Plackemeier is terrible, and Suisham is really struggling. Tryon is not a good gunner.

[B]Players who did well in the first half

#1 Jim Zorn

[/B]Zorn's running schemes in the first quarter were perplexing as the Redskins tried to run into 8 man fronts without stretching the defense via our best running play, but after the first two drives, Zorn called the best half of football ever.

He countered the respect the Giants ran for Portis with play action and screens. Zorn ran SEVEN play action plays in the first half and two screens. The results of these nine plays: 71 yards, 67% successful, and most importantly, eight plays where the Giants pass rush didn't get within 5 yards of Campbell.

The lone exception was the single sack allowed by the Redskins in the half when Rabach got beaten off the snap by Cofield. But the conditions combined with the playcalling created only one play where Campbell was so much as pressured (the sack).

[B]#2 The Offensive Line

[/B]See above paragraph.

[B]#3 Jason Campbell

[/B]Campbell had a heckuva half of football. He moved all over in the pocket in those max protect schemes, saw the field very well, and spread the ball around. When he screwed up, it was problems with accuracy, not anything inherent in his fundamentals, and he found wide open throwing lanes, and was just spinning it the whole half, as Jaws would say. No help from Portis, and he made things happen with little help from receivers who wouldn't get open and wouldn't catch the ball when they did.

[B]#4 Defensive Line

[/B]Boy, did these guys play well in the first half. Jason Taylor looked like Jason Taylor for the first time. Griffin and Evans were great against the run. Montgomery was an unblockable beast, killing a drive with a sack. Lorenzo Alexander made four or five great plays including blowing up the QB sneak attempt. Andre Carter didn't play much, but he did have a critical pressure on a third down.

When we didn't blitz, the four man rush did great. We collapsed the pocket on Eli and did brilliantly on front side runs by Jacobs, effectively neutralizing him in weather conditions that should have really been to his advantage. There weren't running lanes, period.

[B]#5 Chris Horton and London Fletcher

[/B]Were everywhere. Not really against the pass, but the run. They closed incredibly quickly on Jacobs.

I'll try to see how much of this changes in the second half, but we won the turnover battle, lost the yardage battle almost exclusively on defense, and both offensive coaches totally outsmarted the defensive coaches.

Receivers have to catch the football, and run crisper routes. Moss especially.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Take away the one reverse and what do you have,how many plays and runs and what was the average then?

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Why would I take it away? Defending the misdirection play is something that good defenses must do.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=Giantone;506837]Take away the one reverse and what do you have,how many plays and runs and what was the average then?[/quote]

Take away your 40 yard completion for a TD then. Stop whining...you won.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

In defense of Smoot... that 40 yard TD was a PERFECT pass... he actually had pretty good coverage.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Good analysis GTripp, you obviously did your homework.

I'm a little more hesitant to fault the defensive play or the play calling though. Remember, this is the highest scoring offense in the league and Manning was on fire in the first half; he converted numerous third and longs by perfectly placing balls that otherwise would have been incomplete; the coverage was that tight. As much as it pains me to admit it, I'm beginning to believe that when Manning is at his best, he's as good as anyone (especially with the deep ball) and he was at his best in the first half of the game. Skins gambled and they played the price. The fact is, the Giants are a superior team, and you won't beat a superior team without throwing the dice.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Nice stuff G! Thankyou
I imagine it took some time to put all this stuff together. [B]Apologies for the following[/B]. Do you have this stuff in summary form somewhere?

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Yep we did wonderful 7 points!!!! WHOOOO

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

How about we take away the worst plays of the day too?

I never understood the "logic" of not counting plays.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

I have a hard time blaming our CB's for anything as the D line is giving them no help and QB's have all day to throw. You take any team with a good QB and good Wr's and they are going to beat you when giving all day to throw the ball. In our win's this year we have been lucky that either the teams with good WR's and QB's had an off game or we were playing teams withe poor QB's and WR's.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Heck if we dont count the plays the giants scored on, we would have won the game..

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=firstdown;506858]I have a hard time blaming our CB's for anything as the D line is giving them no help and QB's have all day to throw. You take any team with a good QB and good Wr's and they are going to beat you when giving all day to throw the ball. In our win's this year we have been lucky that either the teams with good WR's and QB's had an off game or we were playing teams withe poor QB's and WR's.[/quote]See #4 under players having a good game.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=Hog1;506850]Nice stuff G! Thankyou
I imagine it took some time to put all this stuff together. [B]Apologies for the following[/B]. Do you have this stuff in summary form somewhere?[/quote]No, this is a warpath exclusive. Unless you're talking about my game notes spreadsheet, in which case, yes I do, but it will be way more cool when I have the game finished.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=Coff;506843]Good analysis GTripp, you obviously did your homework.

I'm a little more hesitant to fault the defensive play or the play calling though. Remember, this is the highest scoring offense in the league and Manning was on fire in the first half; he converted numerous third and longs by perfectly placing balls that otherwise would have been incomplete; the coverage was that tight. As much as it pains me to admit it, I'm beginning to believe that when Manning is at his best, he's as good as anyone (especially with the deep ball) and he was at his best in the first half of the game. Skins gambled and they played the price. The fact is, the Giants are a superior team, and you won't beat a superior team without throwing the dice.[/quote]Eli definately beat us in the first half, but I think every QB in the league is capable of beating us in the same way if we use the same gameplan in the same conditions.

We were severely handicapped in this game by our defensive coaching, and it really speaks to the aggressiveness that the DL and tacklers played with that we were in this game at half.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Eli still looks he would hold one. And Giants fans love it. Who would ever respect any player that refused to go to the team that drafted him. He's a baby.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=GTripp0012;506868]No, this is a warpath exclusive. Unless you're talking about my game notes spreadsheet, in which case, yes I do, but it will be way more cool when I have the game finished.[/quote]
What made me think about it is the..........cry for qb change on the Skins.
One station was running some stats that say:
On teams that have suspect O-lines, and "high" rate of sacks and hurries, that qb rating average of 78%
Teams with strong O lines and low sacks and hurries, that qb rating is average 88%. For the purpose of their study, they had JC at 88%.......and naturally performing above average....considering.
Your analysis brings to light some interesting things!

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

haha I love how haters still refuse to look at the analysis in their bashing. It's great.

how about you spend time looking at each play and each player and then come back with the same complaints.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

I don't care how you spin it. 6 yrds per carry or 50 pass in a WR direction we sucked. We could not move the ball, could not score points, and kept dropping balls. Our run offense went no where.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Lets look at another stat. How many drives stalled prior to the 50 yrd line. How many ended in punts?

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;506859]Heck if we dont count the plays the giants scored on, we would have won the game..[/quote]


LOL,there ya go ,we have a winner.No you guys miss my point to see the true production ya remove the best and the worst play and then you get the real average.(not whining,really)

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Nice analysis.

If we had a good pass rush, our DB would look better.

The Giants are just a better football team now. Unless we played at a top level and got some breaks we weren't going to win.

Dropped balls, penalties and missed open WR plagued this offensive. We're near the bottom in the NFL on offense for many reasons.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=A10sROCK;506999]Unless the played at a top level and got some breaks we weren't going to win. [/quote]We did get a ton of breaks in this game. The weather was a pass pressure equalizer, taking away their greatest strength while leaving ours untouched. Burress did not play, and neither did Fred Robbins (I believe).

So if we were ever going to handle the Giants, Sunday was going to be that day.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=GTripp0012;507014]We did get a ton of breaks in this game. The weather was a pass pressure equalizer, taking away their greatest strength while leaving ours untouched. Burress did not play, and neither did Fred Robbins (I believe).

So if we were ever going to handle the Giants, Sunday was going to be that day.[/quote]

Agreed completely. We didn't take advantage of them and we lost. Our offense is below average and so our the ST. The defense can't win this game alone.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

GTripp0012:

Glad to see I am not the only one here who thinks DeAngelo Hall is only marginally competent as a cover corner.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

I didn't have a problem with us blitzing Manning. W/out Burress, we should've been able to cover their wr's one on one and we just didn't do it. I think the coaches were trying to force the issue against a better team. Maybe get some turnovers and sacks to help our high school offense w/ better field position. Manning just made some great throws. Rodgers played like shit and let Hixon abuse him. I do think NY is better coached and they are a better organization than we are. But the Giants d-coordinator is a champion because of Osi, Strahan and Tuck. Let's not make him out to be some kind special coach with a magic wan.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

skinsfan69:

The Giants are playing without Strahan and Osi this year and are 11-1. IN eight quarters, the Redskins scored 14 points on that defense. They - and the defensive coordinator - are getting the job done this year too.


And if you want to denigrate his coaching on last year's championship team by saying he had all those star players so of course he did well, then I'm sure you'll agree with me that Joe Bugel is a dunderhead too. After all, when Bugel won titles he had nothing but Pro Bowl players on the OL (May, Grimm, Jacoby, Lachey, Bostic).


Here's the deal. Good players make good coaches look [B]REALLY[/B] good. That is the situation that Steve Spagnuolo finds himself in with the Giants. He is a good coach and a good coordinator and the Giants have built a defensive unit that plays well together. He didn't do all of that; he played a part in all of that. Same goes for just about every other coach on every other winning NFL team.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=Giantone;506998]LOL,there ya go ,we have a winner.No you guys miss my point to see the true production ya remove the best and the worst play and then you get the real average.(not whining,really)[/quote]

Football is not a game of average plays though bud. The teams that can make big plays are more likely to win games.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=tryfuhl;507133]Football is not a game of average plays though bud. The teams that can make big plays are more likely to win games.[/quote]
Right but the post was trying to explain how good the O was not win or lose.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;507052]skinsfan69:

The Giants are playing without Strahan and Osi this year and are 11-1. IN eight quarters, the Redskins scored 14 points on that defense. They - and the defensive coordinator - are getting the job done this year too.


And if you want to denigrate his coaching on last year's championship team by saying he had all those star players so of course he did well, then I'm sure you'll agree with me that Joe Bugel is a dunderhead too. After all, when Bugel won titles he had nothing but Pro Bowl players on the OL (May, Grimm, Jacoby, Lachey, Bostic).


Here's the deal. Good players make good coaches look [B]REALLY[/B] good. That is the situation that Steve Spagnuolo finds himself in with the Giants. He is a good coach and a good coordinator and the Giants have built a defensive unit that plays well together. He didn't do all of that; he played a part in all of that. Same goes for just about every other coach on every other winning NFL team.[/quote]

I'm not denigrating him. But Tripp was basically making it out that Spagnulo was some kind of genious or something. And Blache was an idiot for blitzing Manning. I'll just put it this way. Spagnulo is a good coach, but his job is much easier than Blache'.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

As always, fantastic breakdown GTripp (I appreciate these more and more).

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

gtripp another good read. but a couple of points i disagree with. Jason Taylor. i hope your right, but i don't see it. i singled him out, a bunch of times on Sunday. Blatche moved him all around the field, tyring to free him up to make plays. he had like one pressure. and while Hall might not be a great cover corner, he is a play maker. should have 3 interceptions in 3 games. he is probably leading the skins in picks after only being here for not even a quarter of the season. play makers are where its at in this league

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=skinsfan69;507208]I'm not denigrating him. But Tripp was basically making it out that Spagnulo was some kind of genious or something. And Blache was an idiot for blitzing Manning. I'll just put it this way.[/quote]I did write the sentence to come off that way, because he got totally outcoached in the first half of the game. I sometimes write things I don't totally agree with in order to convey the point to people who haven't seen the tape.

But I totally agree with you that Spags is generally overrated and viewed as a miracle worker, when all he really has is a good sense of the game and good common sense.

Blache was really coaching well earlier in the season, but he hit an inexcusable comfort level with the blitz in recent weeks. It made sense when the secondary was ravaged with injuries to Springs, Doughty, Smoot was banged up, Hall was in Oakland, Torrence was playing a full-time role, and Tryon was on the field as well. He was just doing what he could do to keep bad offenses from being able to exploit matchups against us like St. Louis was able to.

But as this comfort level with the blitz developed, people started coming back healthy, and we added to our secondary depth. [B]We were never at any point a good-blitzing team.[/B] But against weaker offenses like Cleveland and Detroit and Pittsburgh, it made sense to blitz a lot to prevent the exploitation of weaker matchups in the secondary.

However, we had an entire bye week to get healthy and re-evalutate this strategy, and the blitzing against good offenses (Dallas, NYG) has absolutely killed us. I mean, we're not even giving our defense a chance really.

[quote]Spagnulo is a good coach, but his job is much easier than Blache'.[/quote]Agreed 100%.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

Spagnulo=Norv Turner

It just shows you that if you have great talent, it makes you look like a great coach.

Re: I know something you don't know: Redskins-Giants first half quick hits
 

[quote=GTripp0012;506836]The Redskins offense averaged 6.26 yards per play in the first half.

6.26!

6.26!

And scored only seven points. Because they can't sustain drives. (44% Success Rate, one successful 5 yard run by Portis).

I'm guessing there's no way this success continues in the second half, because the Redskins would have won the game.

[B]First half Goats

#1 and #2 is Greg Blache

[/B]Because the Giants averaged a totally ridiculous 7.03 yards per play and sustained every drive they had, never punting in the first half.

The Redskins blitzed 11 times in the rain in the first half. THEY GAVE UP EIGHT STRAIGHT SUCCESSFUL PLAYS ON BLITZES. If the definition of insanity is, in fact, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, stadium security should have arrested Blache at halftime.

It wasn't just that the blitzes weren't working because our coverage was poor, it's that we never got remotely close to Manning on a blitz the entire half, and he and coordinator Kevin Gilbride diagnosed every single blitz pre-snap. The Giants got three plays of 25 yards or more off of Redskins blitzes.

Also, it WAS RAINING!!! What the hell are we doing sending people after the quarterback when we had no traction?

Steve Spagnuolo blitzed twice the entire half. That's why he's a champion coordinator, and Blache is a re-tread.

[B]#3 CBs DeAngelo Hall and Fred Smoot

[/B]Hall, really, really stinks in coverage. Blache has a man-crush on him though. Hall defensed a pass nicely on a play where Manning was pressured, and he intercepted a pass that Manning put in a perfect spot on Hixon's body, but Hixon didn't know was being thrown. I'll never trash Hall's ability to locate the ball in the air, because he has an uncanny ability to locate a football in flight, but he's rarely in position to do so.

Outside of those two plays, here's Hall's first half:

-Beaten on a slant by Toomer, misses the tackle, and then late hits Toomer after the play, accounting for 23 total yards allowed.

-Beaten on a simple option route by Steve Smith for 11 yards and a first down.

-Hall falls down as soon as Toomer makes an in cut. Give him a break because the field is slick, I suppose. 17 yards against.

-10.2 yards per target in the first half for Hall. It looks better with the pick, of course.

Smoot got toasted by Toomer on the 40 yard TD pass, and was responsble for Steve Smith on the throw that looked like it hit the ground at the two minute warning.

So either Amani Toomer is an elite NFL receiver, or our coverage is terrible.

Rogers didn't have a great half either, but compared to those two, he was brilliant.

[B]#4 Redskins WRs

[/B]James Thrash had two third down targets and converted neither. First one, he got screwed when the official got in his way and forced him to alter his route, but the second one was a great throw by Campbell against 8 man coverage, and Thrash flat dropped it.

Moss, Randle El, and Kelly each had one key drop each in the first half. Randle El's was the worst because he allowed the coverage to strip a football that Campbell got to him with more than enough time to secure it. Campbell struggled just a little bit more than Eli Manning did to throw the ball in the conditions, as I counted three times where his throw missed it's mark by enough to cause a drop or deflected pass. However, if the receivers catch the ball, the Redskins have 17, or maybe 20 points at half easily.

[B]#5 Special Teams

[/B]They suck, except the kick return team, which gave the offense average to great field position on all four kick returns. Plackemeier is terrible, and Suisham is really struggling. Tryon is not a good gunner.

[B]Players who did well in the first half

#1 Jim Zorn

[/B]Zorn's running schemes in the first quarter were perplexing as the Redskins tried to run into 8 man fronts without stretching the defense via our best running play, but after the first two drives, Zorn called the best half of football ever.

He countered the respect the Giants ran for Portis with play action and screens. Zorn ran SEVEN play action plays in the first half and two screens. The results of these nine plays: 71 yards, 67% successful, and most importantly, eight plays where the Giants pass rush didn't get within 5 yards of Campbell.

The lone exception was the single sack allowed by the Redskins in the half when Rabach got beaten off the snap by Cofield. But the conditions combined with the playcalling created only one play where Campbell was so much as pressured (the sack).

[B]#2 The Offensive Line

[/B]See above paragraph.

[B]#3 Jason Campbell

[/B]Campbell had a heckuva half of football. He moved all over in the pocket in those max protect schemes, saw the field very well, and spread the ball around. When he screwed up, it was problems with accuracy, not anything inherent in his fundamentals, and he found wide open throwing lanes, and was just spinning it the whole half, as Jaws would say. No help from Portis, and he made things happen with little help from receivers who wouldn't get open and wouldn't catch the ball when they did.

[B]#4 Defensive Line

[/B]Boy, did these guys play well in the first half. Jason Taylor looked like Jason Taylor for the first time. Griffin and Evans were great against the run. Montgomery was an unblockable beast, killing a drive with a sack. Lorenzo Alexander made four or five great plays including blowing up the QB sneak attempt. Andre Carter didn't play much, but he did have a critical pressure on a third down.

When we didn't blitz, the four man rush did great. We collapsed the pocket on Eli and did brilliantly on front side runs by Jacobs, effectively neutralizing him in weather conditions that should have really been to his advantage. There weren't running lanes, period.

[B]#5 Chris Horton and London Fletcher

[/B]Were everywhere. Not really against the pass, but the run. They closed incredibly quickly on Jacobs.

I'll try to see how much of this changes in the second half, but we won the turnover battle, lost the yardage battle almost exclusively on defense, and both offensive coaches totally outsmarted the defensive coaches.

Receivers have to catch the football, and run crisper routes. Moss especially.[/quote]


We haven't been a good blitzing team since GW first year in 2004 and that really only lasted half of the first season.

No other team in the league, when the blitz, makes the opponent look like they are playing with 15 players on the field.

Our blitzes are picked up so easily that it appears the offense has kept 8 players in to block and still sent 4 players out into the pattern.

Our blitzes should be stopped and we should literally double every receiver in the pattern, then hope that we have enough defenders left to spy the QB when he attempts to run for the first down, not because he has been flushed, but because he has the time to do so.