What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

What changed? I think alot of it had to do with an array of things..

1. Zorn didn't make adjustments to his offensive scheme and teams caught up with his philosophies.

2. We stopped running Portis.

3. We faced top ranked defensive teams

4. Playcalling was horrible as well as time management.

5. JC play dropped off..But how much of this had to do with the O-line, Offensive play calling, A coach preparing his team, WRs not getting open or Jason taking a step back.. I think its a little bit off all of this

6. Our lines (D-Line and O-line) were playing horrible. D-Line not getting any sacks.

All of these things add up. But I think Zorn is the one to blame for not changing his schemes. Poor play calling. Being a "genius"..Not giving the team proper guidance or motivating them and poor clock management. I think he has been the biggest issue and I think his big headedness affected the locker room. Like someone said he was quick to accept the accolades but never accept responsiblity for losses. All he kept saying was execution. But I think it was more in the plan and you have to have your team buy into what your doing. They did to a certain degree. But he lost a lot of players respect in the locker room for not giving credit where credit is due and his demeanor and the the incident where he threw Portis under the bus is a perfect example. So those who just want to blame the players especially JC. You have to recognize what a coach means to a team and its not just calling plays.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

1. Decimated by injuries on O-line and throughout the entire defense.

2. Lack of concentration? Lack of motivation? Something is causing drops, fumbles, dumb penalties and a general lack of performance on offense. Defense, despite injuries is still performing well for the most part.

3. Suisham sucks even MORE than before. Sure, he didn't miss a FG for the first time in ages yesterday, but he managed to kick a ball off out-of-bounds at midfield. Yes, there was that Moss celebration penalty, but that should have made Squishy be MORE careful to keep it inbounds!

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

some valid points DMV, worth discussing even though there are individual threads on each one of your points.

1 - how much did the injuries to the O line, portis not praacticing for weeks, lack of having another receiver not named moss and zorn being a new HC with no OC position experience effect his ability to implement and adjust to his gameplan?

2 - we might have stopped running the ball b/c portis has been ineffective, injured, not in practice and teams were stacking the box in the second half of the season. if he kept running portis, the question would be "why is he continuing to run portis when its not working. only an idiot keeps doing the same thing expecting different results".

3 - yup we sure did

4 - i thought the playcalling was decent this game, others not so much; my big knock is the lack of taking chances down field but when JC has time and a long pass play is called the ball still didnt come out. very frustrating to blame the o line the past few weeks for lack of stretching the field (no time) only to see JC with time scanning the field and the ball still doesnt come out.

5 - agree for the most part, his lack of progression as a player is a result of alot of things; one being JC has done nothing to quiet the areas of criticism that were being said before the season began. hard to blame zorn for JC problems that existed before he was here even if he was supposed to be a qb "genius".

6 - agree, but we knew this going into the season, weve known this for too many years now. i really really want a bonafide wrecking ball of D player who lines up near the line of scrimmage which goes to another point: most other nfl offenses get help from their D in good field position or points. our O gets zero help from our D.

the rest i think i blame more on portis and others turning distrustful of this franchsises ability to put together a winner and i understand that. they have been here for awhile now and have seen the same problems and results year after year (even though they in their own part have lead to this stretch of mediocre). as fans we are frustrated, imagine being a player? zorn made some rookie coach mistakes and the players didnt make it easy on him either.

go skins!!

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=Buster;512343]1. Decimated by injuries on O-line and throughout the entire defense.

2. Lack of concentration? Lack of motivation? Something is causing drops, fumbles, dumb penalties and a general lack of performance on offense. Defense, despite injuries is still performing well for the most part.

3. Suisham sucks even MORE than before. Sure, he didn't miss a FG for the first time in ages yesterday, but he managed to kick a ball off out-of-bounds at midfield. Yes, there was that Moss celebration penalty, but that should have made Squishy be MORE careful to keep it inbounds![/quote]
The injury excuss is getting old did you see teh list of injured player the Bengals had. It was so many they had to scroll the list like credits after a movie.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

^^^ yeah that was funny but on the flip side they are 2-11-1 so that kinda goes towards supporting the argument that injuries effect seasons. but i agree, skins have been relatively healthy this year compared to last years curse.

go skins!!

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=texasskinsfan;512358]I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan[/quote]

Nothing worse than a team jumper. See ya, you won't be missed.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;512361]Nothing worse than a team jumper. See ya, you won't be missed.[/quote]

Co-Sign. hahahaha. Peace chump. wheres your self respect?

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=texasskinsfan;512358]I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan[/quote]
You no longer being a Skins fan is a BIG difference. I'm sure the franchise and the entire fan base is devastated.....

I call dibbs on your Skins stuff that you want to get rid of.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

texasskinsfan Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan


I just don’t get that attitude – It’s not like being a fan is a voluntary choice. Once you’re a fan, I think that’s it, you’re stuck with them for good or bad. How can you just start cheering for someone else? Doesn’t that just make you feel like a jerk?

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Wow! I am in TX and I AM STILL A FAN!!!! Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Its the curse of Leigh Torrence!

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=texasskinsfan;512358]I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan[/quote]

I'm kinda curious to know exactly when you bailed on the Steelers for the Redskins

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

If you think you can "choose" to be a fan of a team, you never were a fan in the first place.

Your fandom is instilled into you by your upbringing. You can't choose your team any more than you can choose your parents. And you can't divorce yourself from your team either, it's impossible. Your emotional connection is too deep. Otherwise, you don't understand fandom.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

I guess that guy could have never been a Red Sox fan...

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

The biggest difference has been Portis' string of 125+ yard games. When he had five in a a row we rolled. When defenses started to shut him down, it exposed Campbell as a little-better-than-average QB (and fourth-best QB in the NFC East alone). Add the injuries to the offensive line that halted Campbell's ability to have time to get the ball to Santana Moss, and the Skins' offense shut down.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

IMO, the biggest difference is alot of people who thought we were better then we were just because of the 6-2 record are now coming back down to earth. Yes we were 6-2, but could have just as easily been 2-6. The games were close and we had some lucky breaks and weren't turning the ball over. People just had unrealistic expectations for this team. We made no real improvements over last years team that had to go on a serious winning streak to squeak into the playoffs. This year we have no Sean Taylor and we lost Daniels before the season started. Our lines are a year older and slower. There is no significant reason we would be better then last year and are actually worse with the lost players and age. Plus we have another new coach and system. I never understood why people thought we would be a serious contender this year.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Early in the year the offense wasn't turning the ball over, that's probably the biggest difference. Those tight wins would have easily went the other way with some turnovers.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;512333]What changed? I think alot of it had to do with an array of things..[/quote]

Great question, great thread. I've been watching the games and at times re-watching them. (Direct TV short-cuts)

[quote]1. Zorn didn't make adjustments to his offensive scheme and teams caught up with his philosophies.[/quote]

Agree somewhat. Zorn didn't seem to make in game adjustments and made the wrong game plan choices. The things he did early in the season that were successful he got away from. I think teams caught up to the short passing game but only because he stopped spreading the field and stopped throwing deep.

[quote]2. We stopped running Portis.[/quote]

Disagree.

I think a few times we got away from the run a little early. But, on the whole i think we ran the ball about the same. The difference is that in the losses we were trailing in the second half of the losses during the 6-2 run Portis got the bulk of his yards when we were leading in the 3rd & 4th qtrs and running the ball to close the games out.

Although one could argue that we should have started running the ball more when the skid began.

[quote]3. We faced top ranked defensive teams[/quote]

Somewhat agree. Pitts, Giants and Ravens are the elite.
But, the Eagles, Cowboys and to a lesser extent the Cards were good defenses.

[quote]4. Playcalling was horrible as well as time management.[/quote]

Somewhat agree.

The playcalling declined. Zorn got away from the shotgun and the spread 4/5 wide formations. I think this is a big part of the offenses decline. JC seems to see the field better and completed more intermediate passes with ease from those formations. But Zorn used the shotgun and 4/5 wide sets less and less and as those formations decreased so did the intermediate passing and thus the offense.

[quote]5. JC play dropped off..But how much of this had to do with the O-line, Offensive play calling, A coach preparing his team, WRs not getting open or Jason taking a step back.. I think its a little bit off all of this[/quote]

Agree. I think the offensive line had a huge domino effect.

1) Pass-pro declines
1) JC gets hit alot
1) Zorn losses confidence in the offensive line gets away from 4/5 wide sets
2) The playcalling shifts almost entirely to a 3 step drop short passing game
2) The pressure gets in JC head effecting his accuracy-'phantom pressure'
3) Jason gets used to getting the ball out quick on 3 step drops
4) Teams notice this away and sit on the short routes
5) Receivers aren't open JC holds ball offense stalls....sack

[quote]6. Our lines (D-Line and O-line) were playing horrible. D-Line not getting any sacks.[/quote]

Blache is a good coach but isn't very creative. A great DC finds away to get effective pressure.

The offensive line struggles really threw Zorn for a loop and he never found the right answer. I think the 3 step drop passing was the right idea, but teams began sitting on the 3-step drop passing game. And Zorn hasn't adjusted, never went back to spreading teams out/ using the shotgun. Zorn doesn't trust the pass-pro to give enough the time to throw deep, which would stop defenses from sitting on the slants and hitches. But he doesn't spread the field to make its easier to see the blitz and to read the coverage.
He doesn't move the pocket enough either.



I think JZ showed during the 6-2 start that he has the chops.
I think he needs more help. Zorn wore too many hats this season and i think this affected Zorn's ability to make the right adjustments. He needs more WCO knowledgeable staff members. Maybe a WR coach?/ Offensive line Coach? But certainly a WCO assistant/QB/.

thoughts?

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=30gut;512525]1) Pass-pro declines
1) JC gets hit alot
[B] 1) Zorn losses confidence in the offensive line gets away from 4/5 wide sets[/B]
2) The playcalling shifts almost entirely to a 3 step drop short passing game
2) The pressure gets in JC head effecting his accuracy-'phantom pressure'
3) Jason gets used to getting the ball out quick on 3 step drops
4) Teams notice this away and sit on the short routes
5) Receivers aren't open JC holds ball offense stalls....sack[/quote]I think the move to fewer receiver sets have less to do with the pass pro and more to do with Mike Sellers. The Redskins actually have progressed to more and more empty backfield sets of late, but it's tough to go four receivers, when you only have two receivers on the roster who can do anything.

Sellers has flat out earned more playing time. You take him off the field, and we're replacing him with a worse player, pure and simple.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=texasskinsfan;512358]I'll tell you what the big difference is, I'm no longer a Skins fan. I have been a fan of the Redskins for over 30 years and the last 15 or so I have waited and waited hoping things would get turned around. After yesterday I just flat refuse to continue to be a Skins fan anymore. No enough is finally enough. It's hard enough living in dallas cowgirl land and being a Skins fan. I thought about rooting for the cowgirls now but something deep inside of me wont let me do so. Now I'm going back to the Steelers who I left for the Skins for over 30 years ago. I do hope though that Zorn is given at least another year to try to turn things around and that they address the problems at OL, DL,DE positions but especially at OL and DE. Well it was a nice run in the 80's and early 90's but after the last 15 years I just can't do it anymore.
Peace Out
Former Texas Skins fan[/quote]
See you about April or May for the annual WP bandwagon fest.
Hmmm, what has changed? Other than every dog ass sorry SOB team kickin' the shit out of the Fightin' Skins?
[B]INJURIES[/B]. We were healthy, and all starters in.
Now, even the remaining starters are nicked up without quality depth

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote]1. Decimated by injuries on O-line and throughout the entire defense.[/quote]
We just lost to a team with 20 players on IR. Can we not blame injuries?

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

MAYBE not much changed. MAYBE the Skins were never as good as their 6-2 record made them appear to be and MAYBE the Skins are not as bad as the recent run of 1-5 makes them appear to be.

They are a .500 team as of today and before the season started, most folks thought they would be a team to finish between 7-9 and 9-7.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;512547]MAYBE not much changed. MAYBE the Skins were never as good as their 6-2 record made them appear to be and MAYBE the Skins are not as bad as the recent run of 1-5 makes them appear to be.

They are a .500 team as of today and before the season started, most folks thought they would be a team to finish between 7-9 and 9-7.[/quote]
I was pondering that same thing today. We are as predicted.......sadly

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Three big things I see:

1. Blocking


2. Blocking


3. Blocking

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Portis is getting stuffed, lackluster playcalling, the O line is showing their age, the system in place(WCO) is not a good system to run in the NFC East.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512532]I think the move to fewer receiver sets have less to do with the pass pro and more to do with Mike Sellers. The Redskins actually have progressed to more and more empty backfield sets of late, but it's tough to go four receivers, when you only have two receivers on the roster who can do anything.

Sellers has flat out earned more playing time. You take him off the field, and we're replacing him with a worse player, pure and simple.[/quote]

You might be right about Sellars being the reason for having fewer 4/5 receivers sets. But, regardless of the reason i think that the offense has declined the more we've gone away from them. If you go back and look at some the early highlights its JC throwing from singleback, empty and shotgun with 3/4/5 receivers. JC was hitting the slants and hitches back then because its easier to make pre-snap reads from when the defense is spread out. Despite the opinion of the receivers, those formations were effective. And they should be even more effective now with DT11 and MK12 and sleepy Davis starting to contribute.


[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80afaa43]NFL Video Galleries[/url]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80aca4ae]NFL Video Galleries[/url]

i couldn't find it in the highlights but JC was hitting slants with ease from the 4 wide set, he even had a few to Thrash and one to Kelly

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;512552]Portis is getting stuffed, lackluster playcalling, the O line is showing their age, the system in place(WCO) is not a good system to run in the NFC East.[/quote]

Um the Eagles?

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

Run blocking has seriously declined, and we've fumbled a lot on offense. We can't get off the field on defense, although that's not a new problem. We've played tougher opponents, which explains the losses, but not the decline in play.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

We are an old team that needs rebuilding to get younger,faster,stronger,wanting to prove something..

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=Jake2008;512439]IMO, the biggest difference is alot of people who thought we were better then we were just because of the 6-2 record are now coming back down to earth. Yes we were 6-2, but could have just as easily been 2-6. The games were close and we had some lucky breaks and weren't turning the ball over. People just had unrealistic expectations for this team.[B] We made no real improvements over last years team that had to go on a serious winning streak to squeak into the playoffs[/B]. This year we have no Sean Taylor and we lost Daniels before the season started. Our lines are a year older and slower. There is no significant reason we would be better then last year and are actually worse with the lost players and age. Plus we have another new coach and system. I never understood why people thought we would be a serious contender this year.[/quote]

Good post Jake. I agree. I keep hearing how Zorn took over a 9-7 playoff team like that is something great. We won our last four on emotion and a QB who had been in Saunders system for years. One more loss and we would have been 8-8. This was not a great team last year. They did some great things toward the end, but they were not a great team. The rookies have not contributed much in their first year which is understandable, so basically we have the same team as last year, only learning a new system. This is basically a rebuilding year whether fans want to see it that way or not. We're installing a new offense that has taken any other team that has used it, 2-3 years to run it efficiently, and we're doing it on a team that was not that good last year. 9-7? Are we going to be happy if we get to 9-7 now? Last years record isn't even good enough to get us in the playoffs this year. I don't know if it was because the players were excited about what this new offense is suppose to bring us, and we got a big head after we got a few wins and then couldn't handle a little adversity or whether weakness in our lines started taking their toll or what happened. Probably a combination of a few things..but this team needs a little time and some more talent before we can expect anything more than being a little above average team.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=30gut;512554]Um the Eagles?[/quote]

lol exactly

If anyone doubts the merits of the wco I hoped you watched the Eagles last night. They have a good offensive line and give McNabb the time he needs to throw, sometimes he had all day back there that's something we're not getting from our line for Campbell.

Re: What is the biggest difference between when we were 6-2 and now?
 

[quote=30gut;512525]
Agree. I think the offensive line had a huge domino effect.

1) Pass-pro declines
1) JC gets hit alot
1) Zorn losses confidence in the offensive line gets away from 4/5 wide sets
2) The playcalling shifts almost entirely to a 3 step drop short passing game
2) The pressure gets in JC head effecting his accuracy-'phantom pressure'
3) Jason gets used to getting the ball out quick on 3 step drops
4) Teams notice this away and sit on the short routes
5) Receivers aren't open JC holds ball offense stalls....sack
[/quote]

I think you should also add that there are many times when this group of receivers just flat out drop balls. Either before or after the catch. There has been a lot of dropped balls, lack of yards after the catch and fumbles by our wide out/TE group this season.