Good article by Wilbon
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/15/AR2008121503169.html]Michael Wilbon - Zorn, Redskins Shouldn't Panic Over a False Start - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

I agree with Wilbon on this one. He took the blame like a man. This is a team with 8-8 talent.
Atlanta grossly underachieved last year with arguably the worst NFL coach in decades and no quality starting QB.
Baltimore still has a top 3 defense that imposes it's will on other teams and a young aggressive offensive line.
Miami is very impressive and the new coaching staff is doing a great job but they are they only team of the four that really are playing beyond their skill level.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

Wilbon got it 100% right on this. We're neither as good as we thought at 6-2 nor as bad as we think at 7-7. This is no time to panic. It's time to make some solid off-season decisions to build up the good and mitigate against the bad, not time to blow up rosters or fire coaches.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

That 6-2 start raised our expectations to unreasonable levels. I understand everyone was hyped up after beating Philly and Dallas, and that was a nice achievement, BUT we have to keep the big picture in mind. We have a rookie head coach who has never even been a coordinator in this league. We have a QB learning another new system. And we have had only had one offseason to bring in players that fit with what Zorn wants to do. You can't build a winner overnight. We have to have some patience, more importantly I hope Snyder has the patience to stick by Zorn for at least another year. If he's a disaster next year it's time to move on.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

Once this year passes, and history is looked at, what greater feat could have been achieved than the Skins forever beating Dallas in the last Skins Boys game in Texas Stadium.

HTTR

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

If Zorn has lost the support of the majority of the players, then he may have to go. If he goes, I won't blame him for anything. I say that because all he did was to take advantage of his chance to be a HC when it was offered to him.

In my opinion, any blame would rightfully fall on Dan Snyder and Vinnie Cerrato for hiring someone who was not fully qualified to be an NFL HC.

If Bill Cowher is available in 2009 then I hope that Dan Snyder will correct his mistake and throw enough money and power at Cowher to hire him. I say this not only because I feel that he would be much more successful than Zorn but also because I HATE the WCO and a passive defense.

I must admit that I'm unconcerned about fairness to Jim Zorn - I just want to see the Skins win another Super Bowl before I die.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

I have to second guess Zorn's aquisition judgement. The Shawn Alexander signing, Placemeier, we may wind up with a bunch of Seattle garbage players is my fear.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote]I have to second guess Zorn's aquisition judgement. The Shawn Alexander signing, Placemeier, we may wind up with a bunch of Seattle garbage players is my fear.[/quote]
What's to question about these moves. Especially Alexander? He knew the system already -- and we had an injured RB, and he's a few years removed from a league MVP. We needed a running back for a short time, we got one that needed no transition into the offense, and luckily didn't have to play much.

Placemeier was somewhat necessary. Brooks wasn't getting it done.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;512633]I have to second guess Zorn's aquisition judgement. The Shawn Alexander signing, Placemeier, we may wind up with a bunch of Seattle garbage players is my fear.[/quote]


Those were all stop gap moves, nothing long term. Nothing to be concerned about. When in a pinch coaches always look to players they are familiar with.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;512631]If Zorn has lost the support of the majority of the players, then he may have to go. If he goes, I won't blame him for anything. I say that because all he did was to take advantage of his chance to be a HC when it was offered to him.[/quote]
How could anyone blame him??? Even if he has lost the support of the players, this would be the right time for Snyder to come out and say forcefully, that JZ is our coach and the team will be his going forward. Thats what you do with a first year HC
[quote]In my opinion, any blame would rightfully fall on Dan Snyder and Vinnie Cerrato for hiring someone who was not fully qualified to be an NFL HC.[/quote]
So Jack Kent Cooke was to blame for bringing in an unqualifed HC who went 8-8. Joe Gibbs retired. The re-treads available looked awful. Danny took a chance. no blame there.
[quote]If Bill Cowher is available in 2009 then I hope that Dan Snyder will correct his mistake and throw enough money and power at Cowher to hire him.[/quote]
WOW WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WOULD BE. Cowher will not come back with a "fire in the belly" and would be a terrible fit with the Redskins. I am sure a lot of people disagree, but, put me on the record as saying Cowhers success was due as much to the patience of an owner who trusted the man he put in charge, as Cowher's own ability. Snyder needs to demonstrate that now with JZ, not by going and getting a "superstar" head coach.
[quote] I say this not only because I feel that he would be much more successful than Zorn but also because I HATE the WCO and a passive defense.

I must admit that I'm unconcerned about fairness to Jim Zorn -[B] I just want to see the Skins win another Super Bowl before I die[/B].[/quote]
Again, Cowher had [B][U][I]1!!!![/I][/U][/B] SB win in 15 years. Yes he was a good to above average coach, but again, he had 15 CONSECUTIVE years before he won a SB, how about we give JZ 3?

I hate the cowher love, or the anybody but who we have love- it is the essence of what made Snyder a bad owner in the beginning:
Look at the Giants D, how many ex Skins are on it, but we had to have a star
Look at the backup qbs in the league, how many are ex Skins.
Football, and winning football, is developed through PATIENCE, finding talent, and growth of that talent.

I am sick of the constant tumult of the Skins, I too want to see multiple SB championships come to DC, but the way to do that is NOT by seeking the latest/greatest, but by working with and growing the talent we have.
thanks for listening to my :rant: I really needed to vent all this.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

I don't agree with Wilbon. Zorn has a very good offensive line coach in Joe Bugel yet he can't seem how to figure out "Protection". I mean, he has JOE BUGEL. HE HAS A GUY WE KNOW OR AT LEAST KNEW AS BOSSHOG. He has a guy that built his reputation by pounding the rock and protecting the quarterback. Heck, Buges even got a head coaching job just because he was so freaking good at it!

And yet, in Zorn's offense. Campbell can't be protected!!! WTF!!!!! Does Zorn just not listen to Buges? Or is Buges just a washed up old man that can't coach no more..........

You know, against Baltimore Devin Thomas was open for a quick six. But, Campbell wasn't protected and it ended up being a interception and a 14 point swing that the Redskins couldn't overcome! Zorn needs to realize that he has Buges for either 18 more games or just two. Zorn needs to swallow more of his pride and arrogance and pick Buges' brain about "protection" in his offensive schemes. Because right now our offense keeps getting blitzed when it starts to get in sync and then it sputters. Right now, Campbell can't do nothing because he's ducking everytime he's chucking. And that is a flaw in Zorn's offense. Especially when every team that Zorn has played against has ALWAYS found a way to bring pressure when they MUST bring it. Zorn MUST fix that. Until he does............screw him! I don't want a coach here with a flawed offense!

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;512638]How could anyone blame him??? Even if he has lost the support of the players, this would be the right time for Snyder to come out and say forcefully, that JZ is our coach and the team will be his going forward. Thats what you do with a first year HC

So Jack Kent Cooke was to blame for bringing in an unqualifed HC who went 8-8. Joe Gibbs retired. The re-treads available looked awful. Danny took a chance. no blame there.

WOW WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WOULD BE. Cowher will not come back with a "fire in the belly" and would be a terrible fit with the Redskins. I am sure a lot of people disagree, but, put me on the record as saying Cowhers success was due as much to the patience of an owner who trusted the man he put in charge, as Cowher's own ability. Snyder needs to demonstrate that now with JZ, not by going and getting a "superstar" head coach.

Again, Cowher had [B][U][I]1!!!![/I][/U][/B] SB win in 15 years. Yes he was a good to above average coach, but again, he had 15 CONSECUTIVE years before he won a SB, how about we give JZ 3?

I hate the cowher love, or the anybody but who we have love- it is the essence of what made Snyder a bad owner in the beginning:
Look at the Giants D, how many ex Skins are on it, but we had to have a star
Look at the backup qbs in the league, how many are ex Skins.
Football, and winning football, is developed through PATIENCE, finding talent, and growth of that talent.

I am sick of the constant tumult of the Skins, I too want to see multiple SB championships come to DC, but the way to do that is NOT by seeking the latest/greatest, but by working with and growing the talent we have.
thanks for listening to my :rant: I really needed to vent all this.[/quote]
:headbange I love this post. Very good points CRedskinsRule!

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=Miller101;512651]I don't agree with Wilbon. Zorn has a very good offensive line coach in Joe Bugel yet he can't seem how to figure out "Protection". I mean, he has JOE BUGEL. HE HAS A GUY WE KNOW OR AT LEAST KNEW AS BOSSHOG. He has a guy that built his reputation by pounding the rock and protecting the quarterback. Heck, Buges even got a head coaching job just because he was so freaking good at it!

And yet, in Zorn's offense. Campbell can't be protected!!! WTF!!!!! Does Zorn just not listen to Buges? Or is Buges just a washed up old man that can't coach no more..........

You know, against Baltimore Devin Thomas was open for a quick six. But, Campbell wasn't protected and it ended up being a interception and a 14 point swing that the Redskins couldn't overcome! Zorn needs to realize that he has Buges for either 18 more games or just two. [B]Zorn needs to swallow more of his pride and arrogance [/B]and pick Buges' brain about "protection" in his offensive schemes. Because right now our offense keeps getting blitzed when it starts to get in sync and then it sputters. Right now, Campbell can't do nothing because he's ducking everytime he's chucking. And that is a flaw in Zorn's offense. Especially when every team that Zorn has played against has ALWAYS found a way to bring pressure when they MUST bring it. Zorn MUST fix that. Until he does............screw him! I don't want a coach here with a flawed offense![/quote]

I agree totally!!!! Teams send overload blitzes when they are desperate and can't stop the offense. Teams send overload blitzes on us because we can't figure out how to make them pay for it. It's like Defensive coordinators don't respect our offensive "[B]GENIUS[/B]".

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=Daseal;512635]What's to question about these moves. Especially Alexander? He knew the system already -- and we had an injured RB, and he's a few years removed from a league MVP. We needed a running back for a short time, we got one that needed no transition into the offense, and luckily didn't have to play much.

Placemeier was somewhat necessary. Brooks wasn't getting it done.[/quote]

I am no fan of Seatle under Holmgren, they are soft and they have always been soft. Even Zorn said Betts and Portis hit the hole with violence. Mr. Softee wasn't the answer. I would have rather had Rock in there. The point is Zorn does not recognize Mr. Softee. When he was a coach for Seattle. WCO ain't Redskins football.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

he must have been reading my post replys. I agree 100% good article!

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=Miller101;512651]I don't agree with Wilbon. Zorn has a very good offensive line coach in Joe Bugel yet he can't seem how to figure out "Protection". I mean, he has JOE BUGEL. HE HAS A GUY WE KNOW OR AT LEAST KNEW AS BOSSHOG. He has a guy that built his reputation by pounding the rock and protecting the quarterback. Heck, Buges even got a head coaching job just because he was so freaking good at it!

And yet, in Zorn's offense. Campbell can't be protected!!! WTF!!!!! Does Zorn just not listen to Buges? Or is Buges just a washed up old man that can't coach no more..........

You know, against Baltimore Devin Thomas was open for a quick six. But, Campbell wasn't protected and it ended up being a interception and a 14 point swing that the Redskins couldn't overcome! Zorn needs to realize that he has Buges for either 18 more games or just two. Zorn needs to swallow more of his pride and arrogance and pick Buges' brain about "protection" in his offensive schemes. Because right now our offense keeps getting blitzed when it starts to get in sync and then it sputters. Right now, Campbell can't do nothing because he's ducking everytime he's chucking. And that is a flaw in Zorn's offense. Especially when every team that Zorn has played against has ALWAYS found a way to bring pressure when they MUST bring it. Zorn MUST fix that. Until he does............screw him! I don't want a coach here with a flawed offense![/quote]

Joe Bugel is washed up. The game has long ago passed him by. The only way we could protect our quarterback under Gibbs 2.0 was in max protect and that's just absurd. Bugel hasn't really developed a single lineman of note in his entire second tenure except maybe Heyer and he is pretty darn average at best. Joe Bugel needs to retire right away.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;512638]
Again, Cowher had [B][U][I]1!!!![/I][/U][/B] SB win in 15 years. Yes he was a good to above average coach, but again, he had 15 CONSECUTIVE years before he won a SB, how about we give JZ 3?

I hate the cowher love, or the anybody but who we have love- it is the essence of what made Snyder a bad owner in the beginning:
Look at the Giants D, how many ex Skins are on it, but we had to have a star
Look at the backup qbs in the league, how many are ex Skins.
Football, and winning football, is developed through PATIENCE, finding talent, and growth of that talent.

I am sick of the constant tumult of the Skins, I too want to see multiple SB championships come to DC, but the way to do that is NOT by seeking the latest/greatest, but by working with and growing the talent we have.
thanks for listening to my :rant: I really needed to vent all this.[/quote]


Not that I'm joining the Cower bandwagon, but my God, to downplay him by saying he [I]only [/I]won one Super Bowl is a little ridiculous. In fifteen years, he won one Super Bowl, won two Conference Championships and appeared in 5 Conference Championship games and went to the playoffs ten times! And with the exception of Roethlisberger, he had crap quarterbacks. Bill Cower, on average, took the Steelers to the conference Championship game every three years. Put it another way, in the last 17 years in which the Redskins have been unable to win a divisional playoff game, Bill Cower won 5.

His teams went deep into the playoffs with consistent regularity over a long span of years. Let's not just say the man's only accomplishment was one Super Bowl in 15 years.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

Bugel had a big part in developing Dockery.

Funny how quickly the fans turn. Earlier in the year Buges was a genius.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

In my view it is too early to give up on Zorn even if he has lost the confidence of the locker room. This being his first crisis give him a chance to respond, like Gibbs when his second stint started badly and Marty (0-5 start). If after 3 seasons we are not seeing progress then think about making a coaching change. It's what you committ to in hiring a new first time coach especially with an older team full of holes.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=Coff;512669]Not that I'm joining the Cower bandwagon, but my God, to downplay him by saying he [I]only [/I]won one Super Bowl is a little ridiculous. In fifteen years, he won one Super Bowl, won two Conference Championships and appeared in 5 Conference Championship games and went to the playoffs ten times! And with the exception of Roethlisberger, he had crap quarterbacks. Bill Cower, on average, took the Steelers to the conference Championship game every three years. Put it another way, in the last 17 years in which the Redskins have been unable to win a divisional playoff game, Bill Cower won 5.

His teams went deep into the playoffs with consistent regularity over a long span of years. [B]Let's not just say the man's only accomplishment was one Super Bowl in 15 years[/B].[/quote]
I didn't mean to imply it was his only accomplishment, but I was responding to the comment that wanted to see the Skins win another one before someone dies.
I just want to get away from superstar coach/blockbuster player type answers. We need to develop good organizational habits. That means patience, choosing a path and gutting out the hard times. Any fan of the Redskins has "gutted out" alot of bad years and stuck with this team. I want our FO to do the same with the people they have chosen.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=wilsowilso;512667]Joe Bugel is washed up. The game has long ago passed him by. The only way we could protect our quarterback under Gibbs was in max protect and that's just absurd. Bugel hasn't really developed a single lineman of note in his entire second tenure except maybe Heyer and he is pretty darn average at best. Joe Bugel needs to retire right away.[/quote]

I disagree with that. Buges can still coach them. Buges hasn't really had to many new guys to work with since he's been here as we normally bring in free agents like Raback, Thomas, Kendall. But, in the few guys that he has had. He's done a pretty good job. I mean, Todd Wade did pretty well................he wasn't a rookie, but we got him from a team that led the NFL in sacks allowed for three or four straight years. And Buges turned him into a good back up Tackle. He wasn't elite, but he did a pretty good job there. He developed Dockery and Dockery got paid the biggest contract awarded in Bills history. And that was mainly because Buges molded him into a very good guard. And Heyer is pretty good too. I know he's not Chris Samuels or Jon Jansen, but Heyer is a above average tackle, who has the funniest nickname on the team. Speaking of Chris Samuels............his run blocking has REALLY improved since Buges got here. He used to be just average at it and now he's one of the best at it. Even when he's hurt. I know those two draft picks we spent on lineman when he first got here didn't pan out. But, he's done very well overall. Like last year for example. We went down to Minnesota and found a way to run 50 gut for 15 yards on 3rd down. That was a crucial down and we ran it right at the Williams Brothers. That was all Buges baby! Or how about when we faced Philly this year, who are still 8th against the run...............we put up 200 against them that game. That was Buges too!

Ohh I forgot Lorenzo Alexander, aka scarface, he's our defensive tackle turned into offensive tackle/ tight end. Man, was he good last year at that position! How could I forget that....................

Buges can still coach em. He's not washed up. He had this line blocking like the Hogs of old to start off the year. At least thats what Riggo said and noone argued it. The problem,I think, is that Zorn doesn't want to listen to Buges about the protection issues with his offense. At least up until yesterday, I think, that Zorn has just been to darn arrogant to listen to Buges. Teams have figured out how to stop Zorn's offense and I put that on Zorn not on Buges. Zorn needs to swallow some pride and say, "Hey Buges, do you have any ideas".

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

I think after the dust settles and the frustration of what could have been calms...Wilbon is correct...we need to build here...draft right and sound judgement on contracts for free agents (outgoing and incoming) will pay off in 2-3 years!

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=Miller101;512680]Speaking of Chris Samuels............his run blocking has REALLY improved since Buges got here. He used to be just average at it and now he's one of the best at it.[/quote]

Samuels loves Buges and has said that he really helped him tighten up his technique. Hard to argue with 3 straight Pro Bowls.

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;512662]I am no fan of Seatle under Holmgren, they are soft and they have always been soft. Even Zorn said Betts and Portis hit the hole with violence. Mr. Softee wasn't the answer. I would have rather had Rock in there. The point is Zorn does not recognize Mr. Softee. When he was a coach for Seattle. WCO ain't Redskins football.[/quote]

:bdh:

Re: Good article by Wilbon
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;512638]So Jack Kent Cooke was to blame for bringing in an unqualifed HC who went 8-8. Joe Gibbs retired. The re-treads available looked awful. Danny took a chance. No blame there.[/quote]

Your comparison to Gibbs is invalid. Gibbs was selected by a highly regarded professional GM, Bobby Beathard. Also, Gibbs was a successful OC. Zorn was picked by Pinky and The Brain and he was never an OC.

Gibbs lost his first five games. After that, he realized that he was taking the wrong approach with the Air Coryell schemes because his personnel was a better fit for emphasizing the running game, so the Hogs were born and John Riggins became the work horse. After that, Joe Gibbs went 8-3 the rest of the way.

Conversely, Zorn has changed nothing, insisting that the system works and that the players are not running the plays properly. The result is that the rest of the league is on to his offense and we are getting worse, not better.

The histories of the first years of Gibbs and Zorn are, in fact, contrapositives.

As far as the retreads are concerned, I think you are overlooking the up and coming candidates, such as Spagnuolo, who turned down the job.

Remember, Zorn wasn't even a HC candidate, initially. I even suspect that they weren't all that interested in Zorn as an OC, but rather as the best person to develop Jason Campbell. They had to offer him the promotion to OC to force Seattle to let him go. Then, the HC search got weird and they ended up hiring Zorn as HC.

No way was Zorn as qualified as Joe Gibbs!