Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html]Cerrato Explains Why the Skins Don't Draft Linemen - D.C. Sports Bog[/url]

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

I don't know if I would call him an idiot. Sure, I think Kelly wasn't a well thought out pick. But, are you saying he is an idiot because he doesn't know the stats for Campbell and Merling? Or because of the way the draft worked out for us?

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

I'm not willing to call the last draft a bust. I think we need to give the guys a chance. There is some talent there w/ Davis, Thomas, Kelly, and Rhinehart (Horton of course).

So the jury is still out on last years draft. I do have issues w/ past years decision making on VC's part.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

What Vinny says here is really really stupid. First he says not to draft for need, then he says we have the west coast offense and it NEEDS big wr's. So isn't it funny how we draft two big wr's in the 2nd round? Sorry Vinny but we drafted for need. He is one dumb dude who would never have a job in the NFL if it wasn't for Snyder. You see when Marty fired him no came knocking on his door. But with that being said, I think he deserves two more years of running things by himself. Everyone wants to blame him for all of the past moves, but some of that falls on Gibbs.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Freaking Larry Michael, Right, right, right, Vinny! You are so true! Get someone in there to ask the tought questions.

What about D lineman? Why Fred Davis?

Ask the tough questions. This isn't the first draft Cerrato has screwed up.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=JLW428;512653]I don't know if I would call him an idiot. Sure, I think Kelly wasn't a well thought out pick. But, are you saying he is an idiot because he doesn't know the stats for Campbell and Merling? Or because of the way the draft worked out for us?[/quote]

I'm saying he is an idiot because he says "we don't draft based on need"

Then justifies his stupidity with made up stats.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512655]What Vinny says here is really really stupid. First he says not to draft for need, then he says we have the west coast offense and it NEEDS big wr's. So isn't it funny how we draft two big wr's in the 2nd round? Sorry Vinny but we drafted for need. He is one dumb dude who would never have a job in the NFL if it wasn't for Snyder. You see when Marty fired him no came knocking on his door. But with that being said, I think he deserves two more years of running things by himself. Everyone wants to blame him for all of the past moves,[B] but some of that falls on Gibbs[/B].[/quote]

Totally agree with that.... he was given full control the last 4 years.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Depressing draft note #357. Harry Douglas, the wide receiver that Atlanta drafted with the 3rd round pick they got in the trade with the Redskins (picks 21 and 84 for picks 34 and 48), has more receptions and yards than all three of the Skins 2nd rounders combined.

I know at least one coach that should be looking for work in the off-season. Stan Hixon.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=JLW428;512653]I don't know if I would call him an idiot. Sure, I think Kelly wasn't a well thought out pick. But, are you saying he is an idiot because he doesn't know the stats for Campbell and Merling? Or because of the way the draft worked out for us?[/quote]

He's an idiot because he says you have to draft by best player available and tries to prove his point by dumping on Campbell and Merling stats while the guys he drafted in the second round have added jack shit to this team.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Like I've said to many people before Vinny is someone who should be part of a scouting team under the supervision and direction of (a qualified) someone who is the personnel decision maker and not the actual decision maker. This job is beyond his capabilities.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=Otis Wonsley;512672]Like I've said to many people before Vinny is someone who should be part of a scouting team under the supervision and direction of (a qualified) someone who is the personnel decision maker and not the actual decision maker. This job is beyond his capabilities.[/quote]

Welcome!

and I agree completely!

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=Otis Wonsley;512672]Like I've said to many people before Vinny is someone who should be part of a scouting team under the supervision and direction of (a qualified) someone who is the personnel decision maker and not the actual decision maker. This job is beyond his capabilities.[/quote]

I agree but that will have to be with a different franchise becasue now that he has been given all the power here you can't very well reduce him to a scout. The only way the Redskins truely build a foundation is to show Vinny the door. Sure we will have years with VC where we win 9 or 10 games and make the playoffs, but to win year in and year out will never happen under his watch.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=celts32;512679]I agree but that will have to be with a different franchise becasue now that he has been given all the power here you can't very well reduce him to a scout. The only way the Redskins truely build a foundation is to show Vinny the door. Sure we will have years with VC where we win 9 or 10 games and make the playoffs, but to win year in and year out will never happen under his watch.[/quote]

I think that I would be fine with that. Maybe I am way off here but if all things point to this aspect being the problem, I wonder if Snyder at some point makes the change. Regardless of his loyalty to Vinny, I think he gets tired of this and goes in a different direction. I mean he has tried everything else under the sun.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Vinny needs to go...he's a yes man and he's not proven to consistently draft well (in past few years) beyond lottery picks- don't toss out 2 names in the last 5 years as proof (even a broken clock is right twice a day...)

Bottom line, we are not a GOOD drafting team- this needs to change.

Oh, and bring in a GM

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

At least he is good at drafting safeties.
Taylor
Landry
Horton
Doughty

no real busts there... or could that be coaching????

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;512660]I'm saying he is an idiot because he says "we don't draft based on need"

Then justifies his stupidity with made up stats.[/quote]

Isn't it friggin awesome that Jason Taylor - $8M a year and a 2nd round pick - has comparable stats to the two DE's that Vinny tries to dog with his made up stats?? :doh:

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

People are reading this wrong. He wanted to draft a O Line but the ones we thought worth drafting were gone. So we did not draft an O Lineman just for need and that what he was saying. He has made his mistakes but what he said made sense but his delievery was not the best.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Vinny Cerratto reminds of George W. Bush. Nobody really loves the guy. We all tolerate him because he is in power. I wonder if he can dodge a shoe like W?

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

so in other words if we need a lineman but the best available player in the draft is a punter we now have another punter but still lack lineman. Then we trade our draft position for a over the hill lineman. Ummmmm OK I get it now.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=firstdown;512701]People are reading this wrong. He wanted to draft a O Line but the ones we thought worth drafting were gone. So we did not draft an O Lineman just for need and that what he was saying. He has made his mistakes but what he said made sense but his delievery was not the best.[/quote]

I'm no VC fan, but i was thinking the same thing. He's drafting on a combination of best overall and need. There was x amount of lineman he would have taken w/ the 21st pick. They were gone and he felt like the DE's at that level were not worth it. So we traded down. In the 2nd round, he felt like the WR's on the board served talent and a need. So, i see what's he doing.

I guess he felt no other lineman was worth one 2nd and he could get his guy (Rhinehart in the 3rd).

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=firstdown;512701]People are reading this wrong. He wanted to draft a O Line but the ones we thought worth drafting were gone. So we did not draft an O Lineman just for need and that what he was saying. He has made his mistakes but what he said made sense but his delievery was not the best.[/quote]

I agree, in fact he made this point right after the draft. does anyone think Jerod Mayo would've been a bad pick at #21? Vinny said that's who they hoped would fall to them, but he was gone.

I won't say Vinny is the man, but I will at least take up for him in that it looks like Snyder was part of the wr/te picks, since he's always coveted those playmakers. Vinny has only had one draft as the guy. Prior to that it was a 3 headed monster. I am not in any way ready to declare the 08 draft a bust. How many people on here have said that wr's typically don't produce much till year 3? Well, we have to be patient. I'm not saying our 2nd round picks don't deserve criticism, they deserve a lot of it. But that's part of the maturation process & each player goes through it differently.

Maybe Vinny has a plan; draft the skill players in 08, let them develop, then draft o & d line in 09 & 10. By then these players will have developed (w/some being busts too), most 30+ vets will have been replaced & JC will be in his prime.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Vinny's an idiot period. Hey ever look at him on TV and think he looks like a Pug?

If you have a good team and for the most part are happy with everyone, and know you have some small holes (namely the lines) then I would suggest picking based on need. Our lines are getting old. They wear out prior to seasons end every year. We need new blood, young blood. So again if you claiming this team is set and don't need anything then yes pick your players based on best player available. Mold him. Train him. and he will become a super star. but when you have issues at certain areas as we did there is no need for a TE. There is no need for a Punter. Our kickers were not the best but got the job done. I truely believe our problems right now has to do with who is holding the ball for the kicker. He was not this bad in the past and the only thing changed is the holder...by Zorn. Our punter is no better or worse then who we had before. We truely should have picked a few linemen somewhere in that draft. If nothing else to get some younger blood to train for when our 30 something linemen call it quits.

I love the whole 8 mil and two picks for Taylor and produced the same as rookies. I guess that means we can look forward to a productive season next year cause thats what rookies do. I guess If you can't dazzle them with your brilliant mind Vinny you have do find a way to baffle them with BS. We all know as a business man you should be able to sell a pile of horse crap and if you can't sell last years draft to us then you might as well find a new job. Oh, and whats with Michael's? "yep", "Uh-huh", "yep", "right". I'm sure he's thinking ....."If I want to keep my job I should just....Smile and wave." I'm so glad Michael knows his facts also to just quickly agree.

Hey Michael's get some balls and slap the pug.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=44ever;512705]so in other words if we need a lineman but the best available player in the draft is a punter we now have another punter but still lack lineman. Then we trade that punter for a over the hill lineman that is no better than the available lineman in the draft. Ummmmm OK I get it.[/quote]

No apparently you don't. So let me help you. We need lineman so we draft a Punter cause he's the best available player(how I don't know cause he wouldn't be a punter then). We then throw away what.....3 draft picks for over the hill lineman. Then after week 2 or 3 cut said Punter. Where you went wrong was we don't trade said Punter.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;512655]He (Vinny) is one dumb dude who would never have a job in the NFL if it wasn't for Snyder. You see when Marty fired him no came knocking on his door. But with that being said, I think he deserves two more years of running things by himself.[/quote]

You say Vinnie is so stupid that nobody else in the NFL would hire him and then you conclude that he deserves two more years at the helm. Huh? I don't begin to understand your reasoning.

If he's too stupid to hold the position anywhere else, shouldn't your conclusion have been that he should be taken out of the job?

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

I think I figured why Snyder will never fire Cerratto. Snyder hired Cerratto because Cerratto is a yes man. Cerratto also the only person that would allow this two headed monster/GM situation, affectionately called "Snyderatto" to exist where Cerratto and Snyder share in the GM responsibilities, which is what Snyder wants. Snyder loves to have his hand deep inside the player personnel body cavity. Even though Snyder has no a football background.

So if Snyder fired Cerratto that would mean Snyder not only is admitting that he is unhappy with Cerratto's job performance, but would also be admitting that his own GM performance sucks. Snyders ego would not allow it. So he will keep blaming and firing everyone else but Cerratto.

Hypothetically, if Bill Cowher agreed to be the next Redskins Head Coach, but his only stipulation is we get another GM and Snyder get out of the GM draft room. Do think Snyder would do it?
That would be awesome! It wouls be tough for Snyder to give up that what he loves.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Vinnie is generally thought of as an average personel man. Perhaps this draft will take him over the top? Time will tell

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=firstdown;512701]People are reading this wrong. He wanted to draft a O Line but the ones we thought worth drafting were gone. So we did not draft an O Lineman just for need and that what he was saying. He has made his mistakes but what he said made sense but his delievery was not the best.[/quote]

You are probably right.... good point. But still, you can't justifiy NEVER drafting OL or DL before the 3rd round in almost 10 drafts. Its beyond stupid.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=Hog1;512756]Vinnie is generally thought of as an average personel man. Perhaps this draft will take him over the top? Time will tell[/quote]

Time is not on our side. We have one of the oldest teams in the NFL and fading fast. If the Vinnie experiment fails in a year or two, we will be even more behind the other teams. We do not have the luxury of time to see if Vinnie will be great. I am surprised Snyder being the type if business he is, "get the best money can buy", accepts having a mediocre GM like Vinnie. Vinnie must have something on Danny.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=GoSkins!;512696]At least he is good at drafting safeties.
Taylor
Landry
Horton
Doughty

no real busts there... or could that be coaching????[/quote]

Co-Sign.
No thats good drafting.
Weve have had some luck with safeties :) (..well...comming OUT the draft at least)

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;512761]You are probably right.... good point. But still, you can't justifiy NEVER drafting OL or DL before the 3rd round in almost 10 drafts. Its beyond stupid.[/quote]
Maybe its the coaches telling Vinny who or what we need. I remember very well an interview with Bugel right at the begining of training camp how our O Line was firing off the ball and blowing up the D Line. He was not just saying this but was really excited and thought our O Line would be great this year. How do we know that he is not sitting there telling Vin that he was fine with who he had or maybe look latter in the draft for the O Line. I don't know myself but there is a good chance that was the case and I would think that all the coaches get together to talk about how we will approach the draft with Vin.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

I've always suspected that Snyder's loyalty with Cerrato lies more so with the very tight friendship Cerrato had with Snyder's father than any relationship they have.

Anyhow, using my front office powers to edit the thread title.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;512795]I've always suspected that Snyder's loyalty with Cerrato lies more so with the very tight friendship Cerrato had with Snyder's father than any relationship they have.

Anyhow, using my front office powers to edit the thread title.[/quote]

whats wrong with my title? Please inform.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;512796]whats wrong with my title? Please inform.[/quote]

See #2

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/370946-post1.html[/url]

Every other post these days is about someone associated with the team, usually Vinny, being an idiot. I thought maybe the thread title for this should be a bit more specific

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Vinny being called an idiot is about as specific as you can get. No gray area in that statement.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

That is the exact opposite of logic. If you have a position that isn't a need, and then you draft someone at that position because they're the best available THAT is the position you end up with a glut at.

As for the stats on Merling and Campbell he really isn't that far off in a 16 game season. He might not have looked at the stat sheets for a couple of weeks is all.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Cerrato: You know, I think Calais has like 11 tackles

OK so if your not sure of the numbers you say you think so what is the big deal with what he said. He did not state these as facts.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

[quote=Defensewins;512804]Vinny being called an idiot is about as specific as you can get. No gray area in that statement.[/quote]


Oh my god, Smootsmack works for Vinny. lol. He's changing the topic sentence on purpose in order to facilitate a more reasonable responce to his boss. lol.

see my point ^ it's already effecting firstdown. lol.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

You know I was thinking about starting a thread concerning a similar issue in that we give Vinny shit for not drafting any lineman untill the end of the third round but in looking back I wonder who we could have drafted, and in a way Vinny might have been right about taking the BPA. Still part of me is suspicious considering Snyder's desire to add a playmaking reciever and the corresponding excuse that the recievers and TE selected just happened to be the BPA. Keep in mind I have no objection to Vinny's 2nd round trade down. Personally I thought it was one of the great moves in the draft.

I know the author of the article brought up Phillip Merling but unfortunately Merling is a moot point considering the fact that he was picked before we got a chance to get back onto the clock. Anyway heres a few guys that we should have considered drafting in the second round, keep in mind this doesn't include taking guys like Chris Horton and saying that he should have been taken earlier. This is based on current performance and draft status based on evaluations prior to April.

[B]- Curtis Lofton - LB -[/B] Oklahoma - Productive Linebacker for the Falcons, God knows he need help at LB
[B]- Chilo Rachel - G- USC[/B] - Would have made sense in terms of getting a lineman but I'm not sure that he was worth being taken this early
[B]- Matt Forte - RB - Tulane [/B]- They were considering taking him and personally I wish we would have taken him if he lasted till Fred Davis's spot. He certainly qualifes as a potential best player available. Especially considering the fact that before the season I was concerned about how long Clinton would able to last. For the record love the guy (CP) to death but theres only so much punishment a human being can take
[B]- Jordy Nelson - WR - Kansas State [/B]-Had the physical specs the team wanted in a Reciever and was more productive at the collegiate level then both Thomas and Kelly. Also is having a better year then both of them but that might be because Green Bay is more willing to give him a chance. Talk about keeping the white man down.
[B]- Jordan Dizon - LB - Colorado -[/B] Would have made sense for us at WLB, but would have had to have been taken with our first 2nd round pick. Wouldn't have been to popular on draft day.
[B]- Calias Campbell DE - Miami - [/B]Probably should have taken him where we took Fred Davis. At the very least it would have saved us a Second Round Pick in 2009. Then again he seems to have a similar playing style and talent level to our very own Demetric Evans. [B]
- Trevor Laws DT - Notre Dame -[/B] Would have had to have been taken with our first pick. In retrospect though he's had health problems so maybe we dodged a bullet but still if he had been healthy then he might have been able to provide us with the push we needed up the middle to have an effective pass rush from Carter and Taylor.
[B]- Jeremy Zuttah - OL - Rutgers - [/B]Would have been a perfect pick for us and he was available for each one of our 2nd round picks. From what I've heard he's played well and on top of that he can play anywhere on the line.
[B]- Mike Pollack - C - Arizona State - [/B]Wouldn't have made a ton of sense on draft day as a lot of us still thought very highly of Rabach at the time but in terms of BPA he should have been high enough to at least recieve strong consideration for getting drafted by us
- [B]Any Cornerback including Porter, Lee, Flowers - [/B]Personally I'm glad we didn't use a 2nd round pick on a Corner especially considering the fact that we got a top flight corner for virtually nothing (D. Hall) when originally we considering using a second round pick for.
- [B]Quinton Groves - DE - Auburn - [/B]Not sure I would really wanted to get him in retrospect as I think our pass rushing woes aren't exactly a personell problem.
[B]- Pat Sims - DT - Auburn - [/B]Looks like he's having a productive season for Bengals in all honesty it looks like he would have been a good fit here
- [B]Ray Rice - RB - Rutgers - [/B]Honestly would have rather gotten Kelly.

So in retrospect, knowing how the draft turned out and looking at how this season turned out I think our ideal draft should have been as follows.

[B]34th - Jordy Nelson - WR - Kansas State [/B]- They get the big productive Reciever they want, complete with a team first attitude. Not that Thomas has this problem, then again Kelly might but he hasn't shown it since he's been here.
[B]48th - Pat Sims - DT - Auburn - [/B]We get the big guy up the middle to help create a push and take pressure off our DE's.
[B]51st - Jerremy Zutah - OL - Rutgers[/B]- Would have been perfect for us this year, especially considering he can play everywhere. Probably would be starting at RT this week.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

Dirtbag, good post. even though some will say it's easy to look back and say who we should have picked.

Is our D-line salvagable or are we going to be picking new personel? I guess Snyder has to sit down and decide how much change we need and how many new people we will need to bring in on the D line in order to get production. If we are going to bring in 1-2 players in the offseason then I presume we keep Blache and his scheme. If we are going out and getting anymore then that to beef up the D line then I probably would change to a 3-4 which has been doing the past few seasons and hard to figure out where the blitz is coming from.

re: Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)
 

I think it's funny that, prior to the draft, nearly everyone on this board agreed in the Pioli principle of drafting the best player available. Now that it appears that we need linemen, most people seem to have done a 180. For the record, I've always believed in the "blended" model whereby you take the best player available at a position of need.