JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/carlos_rogers_possibly_on_the.html#more"]Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out - Redskins Insider[/URL]

ZOMG, Vinny wants to trade Los so he can draft another receiver.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Unless we got a mid-1st round pick for him (which is a pipe dream), I'd be dead-set against any such trade. He's entering his prime, Springs is likely gone, Smoot should get his named changed to Smoked, and Tryon hasn't shown much promise yet.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

If they dont put together a good OL they wont do any better next year.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;516225]Unless we got a mid-1st round pick for him (which is a pipe dream), I'd be dead-set against any such trade. He's entering his prime, Springs is likely gone, Smoot should get his named changed to Smoked, and Tryon hasn't shown much promise yet.[/quote]

I'm inclined to lower my demand to an early second round pick but even that seems to be a pipe dream in and of itself with a lot of Rogers trade value hinging on guys like Nnamdi Asomugha availability as well as lesser corners like Gamble and Robinson. Still the truth is we were able to end up as a top 5 defense this year (at least I still think we're top 5) due to the fact that we had a great secondary. Theres no gurantee that trading Rogers for a draft pick will realocate the talent that he brought to the defense up to the front four and with Vinny's draft history I doubt it will.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

carlos is a great cb. he may not have hands but our pass D went downhill when he got demoted. retarded.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

seems the skins coaches decide not to talk with players before they get dropped down the depth charts. jansen's comments at the begginning of the season seem to be identical to rogers . . "no one told me or explained why. i would like to know . ." which just leads to reporters asking them about it, then the player gives the "dont know, nobodys told me, youd have to ask them" response. (players are saying this in response to a question and not seeking to take things public on their own initiative like . . cough cough .. portis . . cough couch)

im sure the skins coaches have their reasons for taking this approach so i wont second guess, just seems to really rub the players the wrong way and go against what coach zorn was talking about at the beginning of the season: the importance of being honest and upfront with players.

to bench a guy and not tell him why really doesnt bode well for a healthy relationship with a player your potentialy going to enter into contract negotiations with.

go skins!!

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

i mean, i would not take anything less than a 1st rounder maybe HIGH 2nd

he's young and talents

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=mitch e;516229]If they dont put together a good OL they wont do any better next year.[/quote]

the past 5-8 years we've had a great O line and the results were the same: 7-9 to 9-7. this year the O line was a problem for about 8 games and all of the sudden its the O lines fault weve had a below average passing game for a decade now?

i love our O line guys, tired of seeing them made out to be a scapegoat this year when theyve been our bread and butter for years and we still had no passing game.

the problems this team has have been here for awhile, well before the O line started to age and decline.

sorry man, what you say is true just wish we could sprinkle the blame to other areas of the team too.

go skins!!

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Makes sense, after all, the defensive struggled this year, while the offense lit it up. :(

Anyway, I am not full of too much faith with Cerrato still running the front office. This is a guy that does not believe you need offense or defense lineman.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I think they should bring all 4 of the corners back next year if they can and start hall and rogers and have springs rotate with horton at saftey and some corner next year if he would do that

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=redskins4lif;516242]I think they should bring all 4 of the corners back next year if they can and start hall and rogers and have springs rotate with horton at saftey and some corner next year if he would do that[/quote]

I agree 100%.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Smoot is the only corner that needs to go. Rogers is probably our second best cover guy, behind Springs. i say no way

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=dmek25;516245]Smoot is the only corner that needs to go. Rogers is probably our second best cover guy, behind Springs. i say no way[/quote]


Might as well keep Springs, he is too old to really trade. Still he needs to be replaced as a starter regardless.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;516251]Might as well keep Springs, he is too old to really trade. Still he needs to be replaced as a starter regardless.[/quote]

As much as I like Springs, I doubt we keep a 34 year old injury-prone corner who carries an $8M cap figure.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=over the mountain;516234]seems the skins coaches decide not to talk with players before they get dropped down the depth charts. jansen's comments at the begginning of the season seem to be identical to rogers . . "no one told me or explained why. i would like to know . ." which just leads to reporters asking them about it, then the player gives the "dont know, nobodys told me, youd have to ask them" response. (players are saying this in response to a question and not seeking to take things public on their own initiative like . . cough cough .. portis . . cough couch)

im sure the skins coaches have their reasons for taking this approach so i wont second guess, just seems to really rub the players the wrong way and go against what coach zorn was talking about at the beginning of the season: the importance of being honest and upfront with players.

to bench a guy and not tell him why really doesnt bode well for a healthy relationship with a player your potentialy going to enter into contract negotiations with.

go skins!![/quote]

If they are benching players they need to meet with them first and explain why its happening and thats just good leadership.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

If we get rid of him VC should be fired. We let Smoot(when he was good) walk in the 2005 off season which forced us to draft a CB as we passed on Merriman,Ware,Spears, Tuck. If we were to let him go three years later after drafting him then VC should get axed.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I'm really not surprised. His inability to hold on to INTs has hurt us time and time again. He'll never be an elite player with those stone hands.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I have a real problem with the way Blache coaches his side of the ball. Basically, he plays favorites. That's bad high school coach crap.

There's no doubt that Gregg Williams built something really special here in four seasons, and while our unit wasn't bad by any means this year, it declined significantly as the year went on and we added more pieces (both through the market and returning from injury).

So if the further away from Williams we get, the worse we get, what is that really saying for Blache?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

And while DeAngelo Hall seems like a fine addition for the price, he is who he is: a high completion percentage corner who makes his living off of intercepting bad throws, and preventing first downs with his ungodly closing speed. I mean, his numbers this season are nearly identical to Springs: just fine in coverage, but he's an easy completion whenever a QB wants one. He's not going to break up any passes.

Hall also has clear effort issues. Sometimes, when he allows a completion, he won't go and make the tackle, rather relying on his teammates to do it.

But, I guess that's worth more to this team than Rogers. Well, at least will have an improved offense next year.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GTripp0012;516304]I have a real problem with the way Blache coaches his side of the ball. Basically, he plays favorites. That's bad high school coach crap.

There's no doubt that Gregg Williams built something really special here in four seasons, and while our unit wasn't bad by any means this year, it declined significantly as the year went on and we added more pieces.

So if the further away from Williams we get, the worse we get, what is that really saying for Blache?[/quote]

You don't think GW played favorites just a bit with the whole Arrington fiasco?

As far as adding pieces, we added Jason Taylor who was hampered by injuries all year, Horton who played great as a rookie, Hall who at least held on to some INTs, and that's about it for the D.

I'm not sure if scheme is more to blame or what, but in my eyes what this D really lacks are true play makers and guys that can consistently get after the QB.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I would get rid of Smoot, try to re-negotiate with Springs and sign Rogers and Hall to modest contracts. If that's not possible, I would resign Rogers instead of Hall. Rogers despite dropping passes has had a solid season in coverage, Hall I don't trust and is equal in talent to Rogers (not as good in coverage but gets the INT's). I'm not surprised that Rogers will be used as bait coming of a great season and having Hall to sign as his replacement.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516307][B]You don't think GW played favorites just a bit with the whole Arrington fiasco?[/B]

As far as adding pieces, we added Jason Taylor who was hampered by injuries all year, Horton who played great as a rookie, Hall who at least held on to some INTs, and that's about it for the D.

I'm not sure if scheme is more to blame or what, but in my eyes what this D really lacks are true play makers and guys that can consistently get after the QB.[/quote]Okay, great point about Arrington. I guess I'm more biased towards Williams because when he made an example out of Arrington, he used it as a coaching technique to get players to buy into his scheme. When Blache benches his best cover corner and complementary pass rusher, it doesn't seem to have the same purpose. We just get worse as a unit.

And I'm fully acknologing that we were better with Arrington in the lineup than on the bench.

Williams was able to get more out of his defensive line than Blache has without taking any guys out of pass coverage by ultimately letting talent be talent. Blache goes very control-freak on his defensive line, making them play ultra-disciplined (which is obviously a philosophical thing, since his a DL guy), then decides to try to force the QB to make quick decisions by running ineffective blitzes, and then he scapegoats Rogers for his ineffective bullshit.

I like a lot of what Blache did this year, but regardless of what I think he does well, I'm starting to realize that he's just a bad coach. Independant of scheme and stuff (which is a seperate fault). He's just bad for the players, bad for talent evaluation, bad for the Washington Redskins. I just think that goes beyond what he does well and poorly on gameday, that he too often sets us up for failure, and we won't always have the talent to overcome it like we do now.

And yeah, it's an opinion that I might be totally wrong on, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

I agree with you on one big thing, we need a big-time defensive playmaker who excels in all three phases of defense: pass rush, pass coverage, and run defense.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I think trading Rogers would be weakening one position to try and strengthen another. Unless they plan on signing a better young corner, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Any draft picks we have or may get in trade would be better used elsewhere than corner. One of the strengths, maybe THE strength of our team was the defensive backfield. Why try to improve our strength at the neglect of other, more pressing needs?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I don't want to see Rogers go. I think the only corner we should get rid of is Fred Smoot. Smoot hasn't been playing well, and I think if we kept Rogers and Hall as our starters going into the '09 season and basically let Springs play nickel or safety then we'd be set. I'm def. not set on Tryon so a little depth at corner would be nice.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

It would take a first round pick for me to feel like we got a fair value for Rogers. He has come on good this year and I expect next year he will be better. He may not intercept anymore balls, but he is a lock down corner. Some team will want that... bad. If we had two first round picks next year, and could trade one for 2nds, we would be in a good position. Well, except that Vinny may overdraft some position... like LB. If we could trade Rogers and get a 1st round O-lineman, 2nd round LB, and 2nd round DT, I think we could find ourselves set up well for the future. It's a bit of a dream, but not a total fantasy.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

We better not give up Rogers, it would be just like 2006 when we gave up Ryan Clark and Walt Harris in the secondary. We gave up big play after big play. Walt Harris went to San Fran and made the pro bowl, Ryan clark became an asset to the Steelers D. I'd rather see Smoot or Springs go if anybody. I say keep them all; we are the 4th rank defense in the league because of them.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GoSkins!;516339]It would take a first round pick for me to feel like we got a fair value for Rogers. He has come on good this year and I expect next year he will be better. He may not intercept anymore balls, but he is a lock down corner. Some team will want that... bad. [B]If we had two first round picks next year, and could trade one for 2nds, we would be in a good position. [/B]Well, except that Vinny may overdraft some position... like LB. If we could trade Rogers and get a 1st round O-lineman, 2nd round LB, and 2nd round DT, I think we could find ourselves set up well for the future. It's a bit of a dream, but not a total fantasy.[/quote]

If we could do that, I'd be okay with trading Carlos. Thing is, Fred Smoot sucks, and Springs is old and injury prone. So if we do trade Carlos, we suddenly have a big hole at CB. We'd have to either use one of the picks we traded him for to draft an unproven rookie CB, or find a starting caliber CB in the FA market. Neither Smoot nor Tryon will be capable starters next year, and we can't rely on Springs to start more than 8-10 games.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I just hope Vinny doesn't fumble around and eff it up.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=WaldSkins;516265]If we get rid of him VC should be fired. We let Smoot(when he was good) walk in the 2005 off season which forced us to draft a CB as we passed on Merriman,Ware,Spears, Tuck. If we were to let him go three years later after drafting him then VC should get axed.[/quote]

Add this to the list of reasons why Vinnie must go.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I wonder if he team is considering ths because they feel they have a good shot at Ashmouga? Maybe D.Hall has been talking to him?

....out on the thin ice on this one.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I'd be fine trading Rogers for a 2nd round pick if we can get that. He's a decent corner, he doesn't suck but he's far from elite. The kid can't catch anything, makes some plays but gets burnt more than his fair share of times. There's a decent number of quality CB on the free agent market so if he goes he would be easily replaced.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=over the mountain;516237]the past 5-8 years we've had a great O line and the results were the same: 7-9 to 9-7. this year the O line was a problem for about 8 games and all of the sudden its the O lines fault weve had a below average passing game for a decade now?

i love our O line guys, tired of seeing them made out to be a scapegoat this year when theyve been our bread and butter for years and we still had no passing game.

the problems this team has have been here for awhile, well before the O line started to age and decline.

sorry man, what you say is true just wish we could sprinkle the blame to other areas of the team too.

go skins!![/quote]

mountain, so do you think the blame is on JC??
Could it be that JG had no spine and refused to air the ball out and was working with an antiquated offense?? And you answered you're question yourself, the last 5-8 years...the unit is old!!!
Chris Samuels has been in the league 9 years, Rabach - 8, Kendall - 13, Thomas - 10, Jansen - 10
It is time to inject some youth into the offensive trenches, Clinton Portis should be running free over everyone

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516358]I'd be fine trading Rogers for a 2nd round pick if we can get that. He's a decent corner, he doesn't suck but he's far from elite. The kid can't catch anything, makes some plays but gets burnt more than his fair share of times. There's a decent number of quality CB on the free agent market so if he goes he would be easily replaced.[/quote]

So you'd like to give up on a top 10 pick who, quite frankly, played at an elite level during the first half of the season after coming back from serious knee surgery the year before and who has a year left on his rookie deal for a 2nd round pick? Add to that you'd be handing this 2nd round pick to Vinny Cerrato who will (I guess) turn around a pick a corner high in the draft. And I guess that would also mean giving D. Hall a boatload of money. No thanks. I can only hope this story is JLC running off at the mouth, but the end of the season demotion might suggest that it has some legs. I wish the team would trade for Scott Pioli instead.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516358]I'd be fine trading Rogers for a 2nd round pick if we can get that. He's a decent corner, he doesn't suck but he's far from elite. The kid can't catch anything, makes some plays but gets burnt more than his fair share of times. There's a decent number of quality CB on the free agent market so if he goes he would be easily replaced.[/quote]

I dont see the point in trading a first round corner with experience for a 2nd round pick....this screams out stupid....not to mention, this would leave us with a bad option at the 2nd corner...either smoot or the oft injuried Springs.

Do any of you honestly think we could get a better starting corner with a 2nd round pick than Rogers with all his experience....especially with vinny making the selection?
His 2nd round picks haven't been that great....not to mention...we blew our 2nd rounder on MR..."whats a sack" Taylor

Rogers is a young talent...one of the few on our team...to trade him would be idiotic...if you are gunna trade someone, trade Portis...you'll get massive value there for a guy that is going to get injured more and more....that is crazy, but at least it makes sense since his value is peaking. Hell, trade Cooley and Samuels while your at it and get monster linemen and draft picks in return!

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Damn, doesn't even seem like he has the I hope to remain a Redskins like a lot of guys.. damn shame

Here's to hoping that he gets a good deal somewhere and learns that his hands catch balls, somewhere that we never play, because our number 1 receiver will prob never get a catch on him

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Sorry to make the double post, but if rogers is gone.. hall is number 1, springs might be back, sometimes possibly at FS, that our secondary will no longer be nearly as dominant

springs and rogers shut down the big divisional opposition this year... I don't see that coming from smoot, hall (though i support keeping him), or definitely tryon

tryon is a young smoot, nickel at best

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Carlos isn't going anywhere. I like JLC but this article is pure speculation. Just because Rogers doesn't like how he is being used doesn't mean he is leaving. Why would the FO get rid of a guy that they drafted in the 1st round only a few years ago? Oh wait we are talking about Vinny.

Anyway... Carlos's attitude is the epitome of what is wrong with the Skins. Average to good players thinking they are "superstars". News flash to #22... superstar CBs can catch. You can talk about how tons of teams would give their right arm for your services but you haven't won jack in the NFL. Not saying 22 isn't a good player, just that his attitude is representive of a larger problem in the locker room. And in my opinion this attitude comes from the FO overpaying good (not great players) who show "potential" but haven't proven they are elite players before giving them the big contracts.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=tryfuhl;516393]Sorry to make the double post, but if rogers is gone.. hall is number 1, springs might be back, sometimes possibly at FS, that our secondary will no longer be nearly as dominant

springs and rogers shut down the big divisional opposition this year... I don't see that coming from smoot, hall (though i support keeping him), or definitely tryon

tryon is a young smoot, nickel at best[/quote]


I don't understand why you get rid of Rodgers and keep Springs... that is beyond absurd in my opinion. Classic Vinny move if it happens.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

A couple points on trading Rogers-
1. He's not elite, nowhere close. He has terrible hands, has no history of shutting down elite WR-in fact I'd challenge anyone to point out one time he has done such-and isn't feared by coordinators or QB in the league.
2. Despite him being a top 10 pick, he is not in the top 40 in his position. There are dozens of Carlos Rogers out there in the league. He's a guy that won't kill you but won't really help you either. He doesn't change field position for your team, doesn't put points on the board and doesn't do anything 'special'. There are a dozen CB on the free agent market that will be more affordable and represent the same level of play if not better. Losing him is no great loss on the field.
3. He's going into a contract year, is well known to have an excessively high opinion of himself and is going to try to get top CB dollars. We're going to lose him with no compensation next year so it makes sense to get something while we can for him. A 2nd round pick would be a solid value for Rogers.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;516397]Carlos isn't going anywhere. I like JLC but this article is pure speculation. Just because Rogers doesn't like how he is being used doesn't mean he is leaving. Why would the FO get rid of a guy that they drafted in the 1st round only a few years ago? Oh wait we are talking about Vinny.

Anyway... Carlos's attitude is the epitome of what is wrong with the Skins. Average to good players thinking they are "superstars". News flash to #22... superstar CBs can catch. You can talk about how tons of teams would give their right arm for your services but you haven't won jack in the NFL. Not saying 22 isn't a good player, just that his attitude is representive of a larger problem in the locker room. And in my opinion this attitude comes from the FO overpaying good (not great players) who show "potential" but haven't proven they are elite players before giving them the big contracts.[/quote]

sooo.. he's not good enough to stay.. too good to leave?

which side are you taking?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=skinsnut;516390]I dont see the point in trading a first round corner with experience for a 2nd round pick....this screams out stupid....not to mention, this would leave us with a bad option at the 2nd corner...either smoot or the oft injuried Springs.

Do any of you honestly think we could get a better starting corner with a 2nd round pick than Rogers with all his experience....especially with vinny making the selection?
His 2nd round picks haven't been that great....not to mention...we blew our 2nd rounder on MR..."whats a sack" Taylor

[B]Rogers is a young talent...one of the few on our team...to trade him would be idiotic...if you are gunna trade someone, trade Portis...you'll get massive value there for a guy that is going to get injured more and more....that is crazy, but at least it makes sense since his value is peaking. Hell, trade Cooley and Samuels while your at it and get monster linemen and draft picks in return[/B]![/quote]

Agree with all of this expect about trading Cooley.... he is one our only truly great players.