Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Since our season is over and we're all probably tired of talking about what's wrong w/ the Skins...

Matt Cassell:

Is he a product of the system in NE or is he this good? I was a non believer up until the last 6-7 games in the season. This guy is mobile, athletic, great arm, and is accurate. Some stats.

63% Comp %
3693 Yards
21 TD's
11 Int's
230 Yards per game
Sacked 47 times
8th in the NFL
1st season starting

Is he the real deal? I think so. One game doesn't make a player but I came away very impressed by the Ariz game especially.

NE could either let him go by FA, put a Franchise tag on him and pay him 14mill (i think) for next season or sign him to a long term deal.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I wouldn't hitch my wagon to him just yet. Someone will take the chance though.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Is New England's QB position the new Denver RB?

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=redsk1;516576]Matt Cassell=

[/quote]

Matt Schaub II!

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

i,ve been impressed all year with him but i think alot of it has to do with what new england already has there and that the system....

potentially another schaub...

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

The guy wants to stay in NE he says, so they may be able to give him a moderate contract and keep him around. Maybe some sort of incentive-based contract to where if he becomes starting QB he gets a new deal.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=backrow;516580]Matt Schaub II![/quote]

Schaub wasn't lookin too bad towards the end of the season. Next year could be a break out year for him and the Texans.

You could argue he had a better year than some B&G clad qbs.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

He would be a good fit to a team that is on the cusp, such as the 49ers. If the Favre retires the Jets should consider him, that is NE is willing to let him go.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

There is some talk that Brady may have more surgery to remove scar tissue left over from the infection and if so, may miss 2009 also. If Cassell gets tagged and he plays well next year he could pretty much write his own ticket.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I was wondering who this years Derek Anderson was going to be.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I think Brady is a product of NE system.

Brady has all of the natural tools I'll give you that but if you put him on another team I don't think he would have the same record numbers that he's had.

So the same goes for Cassell. He can naturally make the throws but NE's system is enhancing his abilities.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Cassel is good, but he is basically playing on an all-star team. On the Redskins, he would probably suck.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;516606]I think Brady is a product of NE system.

Brady has all of the natural tools I'll give you that but if you put him on another team I don't think he would have the same record numbers that he's had.

So the same goes for Cassell. He can naturally make the throws but NE's system is enhancing his abilities.[/quote]

NE definitely has an awesome system. Certainly both Brady and Cassell wouldn't look as good on lesser teams (although Tom Brady is a pro-bowler on any team IMO). But they still have to study, learn, lead, and make all the throws.

I think it helped that Cassell was learning from Brady for a few seasons before taking the field, and also has an unreal coaching staff around him. That shouldn't diminish his accomplishments, however it should somewhat temper expectations if he lands on a team with a god awful offense.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Cassel's turnaround and development within the offense is a great story, and some of that is real, legitimate improvement, but lets not forget that in the first third of the season that Cassel was SO bad that he basically cost them a playoff spot.

Overall, you balance the good with the bad, and you are looking at a slightly above average year in one of the most fertile offensive environments of all time.

Assuming that he doesn't get in as an alternate this year, I'd be willing to go out on a (fairly sturdy) limb and say that Matt Cassel will NEVER make a pro bowl.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

The difference between Schaub and Cassel, far as we know it, is that Schaub was a pretty effective college QB. Cassel, he got a pretty solid education.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

i dont kno.... im giving Campbell the Green Light for next year. He doesnt turn it over much and i can deal with that. Maybe he wont turn into that ELITE QB... but hes good enough to be in a Super Bowl... AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE..

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;516578]Is New England's QB position the new Denver RB?[/quote]

That type of thinking is a big part of the reason as to why Denver is looking for a new running back year after year. If I'm New England I stick with Tom Brady and hope that in the worst case scenario I can turn Kevin O'Donell into another Matt Cassell.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

It's Belichick! He's the master of the modular "plugable" replacement roster

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=redsk1;516576]
Is he the real deal? I think so. One game doesn't make a player but I came away very impressed by the Ariz game especially.
[/quote]

I don't know about the real deal, but he does appear to be a good QB.
You also have to consider that alot of QBs would look good behind NE line, with Moss, Welker, Watson and Faulk as receivers, 3 years in an explosive system coached by one of the top young OC in the NFL in Josh McDaniels and of course the Hoody.

:twocents:

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Cassell is legit. He has the tools, he obviously has an advantage being in NE, but honestly what QB EVER has great numbers if the team around him stinks? Its a team game.

In my opinion Cassell will be the NE starter next year. Brady might be done.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

Better than Campbell. But that bar is not very high. Campbell is so frustrating to watch I am bewildered why he is still the starting QB. It appears Washington is rationalizing all those picks we traded for him has to pan out somehow. The Skins will not allow themselves to admit it was a terrible selection with all those draft picks. A total meltdown on draft day. The Redskins will force him to play after giving up the house for a guy they probably could have drafted in the 3rd round even though he isn't worth a 3rd rounder. That sealed the deal on the Skins being nothing more than fair for the next decade while this fiasco plays out

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Skins4L;516660]i dont kno.... im giving Campbell the Green Light for next year. He doesnt turn it over much and i can deal with that. Maybe he wont turn into that ELITE QB... but hes good enough to be in a Super Bowl... AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE..[/quote]
Yea and to go along with that low int is also low TD's. I know he never had time to throw with 36 sacks but wait Cassel had 48 and Big Ben had 49 (I could be off a sack or two for all three).

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

He's no joke in New England but on another team in a different offense he would be a joke. His only chance to be a good starter IMO is for McDaniels to get a job and bring Cassel with him.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516852]I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.[/quote]

Cassel has been watching an all time great run the same offense for years. As for Campbel he gets tossed to the wolves in a brand new offense every year. When you "drop in" JC and expect 11-5...will he have had the benefit of watching and practicing the offense for 3 or 4 years before stepping on the field? If not then it's not a fair comparison...

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=firstdown;516859]Yea and to go along with that low int is also low TD's. I know he never had time to throw with 36 sacks but wait Cassel had 48 and Big Ben had 49 (I could be off a sack or two for all three).[/quote]
Campbell has not demonstrated much of an ability to help himself.
To some degree, but not enough. If you look at successful QB's, they have tools to buy time, extend drives, LEAD, hit recievers in stride, etc.
JC must be able to "grow" into the leader we need. He must.......develope

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=celts32;516872]Cassel has been watching an all time great run the same offense for years. As for Campbel he gets tossed to the wolves in a brand new offense every year. When you "drop in" JC and expect 11-5...will he have had the benefit of watching and practicing the offense for 3 or 4 years before stepping on the field? If not then it's not a fair comparison...[/quote]

Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

JC got to watch for a few years and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Sonny9TD;516850]Better than Campbell. But that bar is not very high. Campbell is so frustrating to watch I am bewildered why he is still the starting QB. It appears Washington is rationalizing all those picks we traded for him has to pan out somehow. The Skins will not allow themselves to admit it was a terrible selection with all those draft picks. A total meltdown on draft day. The Redskins will force him to play after giving up the house for a guy they probably could have drafted in the 3rd round even though he isn't worth a 3rd rounder. That sealed the deal on the Skins being nothing more than fair for the next decade while this fiasco plays out[/quote]

I totally disagree with most of your post. First off it was Gibbs who wanted JC and had the front office to make the move to get him. Not sure if he would have falling to us but Gibbs thought enough about him to make the move. If he he made the right call is still up in the air but if JC grows in this new system and proves Gibbs right it was a good call at the time. I also don't believe that our front office is so stuborn that they will keep and play a player in the most important position just so they don't look like they waisted a pick.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=firstdown;516885]I totally disagree with most of your post. First off it was Gibbs who wanted JC and had the front office to make the move to get him. Not sure if he would have falling to us but Gibbs thought enough about him to make the move. If he he made the right call is still up in the air but if JC grows in this new system and proves Gibbs right it was a good call at the time. I also don't believe that our front office is so stuborn that they will keep and play a player in the most important position just so they don't look like they waisted a pick.[/quote]

JC is the big piece of furnature that was left in the house when Zorn moved in. I'm not sure its really his style but he's gonna try to make it work because its going to be very difficult to move out.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=firstdown;516885]I totally disagree with most of your post. First off it was Gibbs who wanted JC and had the front office to make the move to get him. Not sure if he would have falling to us but Gibbs thought enough about him to make the move. If he he made the right call is still up in the air but if JC grows in this new system and proves Gibbs right it was a good call at the time. I also don't believe that our front office is so stuborn that they will keep and play a player in the most important position just so they don't look like they waisted a pick.[/quote]

Well the Campbell deal was ridiculous. If Gibbs did it then it was still a terrible move. But hopefully you are correct about the front office not keeping Campbell and realizing it was a mistake. Please be right.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=firstdown;516859]Yea and to go along with that low int is also low TD's. I know he never had time to throw with 36 sacks but wait Cassel had 48 and Big Ben had 49 (I could be off a sack or two for all three).[/quote]

Yeah Cassel had 47 sacks /516 attempts w/ [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]exactly[/COLOR][/SIZE] the same line that had [B][U][SIZE="2"]3 pro-bowlers[/SIZE][/U][/B] last year, the same line where Tom Brady had 21 sacks /578 attempts

If your comparing our line to the Pats line it ain't even close
I've watched a few Pats game this season and they run a complete passing game because their line can consistently pass protect for 5 & 7 step drops

Our line was so bad that Zorn admitted that he worried about trying anything beyond a 3 step drop

Look in football you can rarely look at one aspect like 'sack totals' and think you can somehow come to a conclusion based on that 1 stat, you always have to consider the circumstances

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516852]I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.[/quote]

Woah, woah, you don't think Campbell could have been drop into Cassel situation and done the same if not better?

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]WHAT?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Matt Cassel
TDS
21
INT
11
YDS
3,693
RTG
89.4

Jason Campbell
TDS
13
INT
6
YDS
3,245
RTG
84.3

Answer this question?

How can Jason who put up similiar numbers under far worse circumstances be the lesser of the 2 QBs?

Consider:
-Rookie HC vs. the Hoody
-Rookie playcaller & OC/ vs Josh McDaniels one the best young offensive minds
-1st year in new offense/ 3 years in a proven system watching Brady do it the right way
- inferior receiveing corps/ Randy Moss vs. Santana Moss or Wes Welker vs. Randle El
- inferior offensive line ( see previos post)

C'mon people were better then this right?

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[B]C'mon people were better then this right?[/quote][/B]

That sounds like something my fifth grade teacher would say. Weak.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=30gut;516910]Woah, woah, you don't think Campbell could have been drop into Cassel situation and done the same if not better?

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]WHAT?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Matt Cassel
TDS
21
INT
11
YDS
3,693
RTG
89.4

Jason Campbell
TDS
13
INT
6
YDS
3,245
RTG
84.3

Answer this question?

How can Jason who put up similiar numbers under far worse circumstances be the lesser of the 2 QBs?

Consider:
-Rookie HC vs. the Hoody
-Rookie playcaller & OC/ vs Josh McDaniels one the best young offensive minds
-1st year in new offense/ 3 years in a proven system watching Brady do it the right way
- inferior receiveing corps/ Randy Moss vs. Santana Moss or Wes Welker vs. Randle El
- inferior offensive line ( see previos post)

C'mon people were better then this right?[/quote]

The Skins record shows what they are, an 8-8 team. His numbers show he's the lesser QB because he has lesser numbers than Cassell. There is no way JC could have gone up there and thrown 21 TD passes, he just isnt an accurate enough passer to do that.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

JC isn't accurate enough huh...

Cassell's comp %: 63.4

JC: 62.3

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516879]Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

[B]JC got to watch for a few years[/B] and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.[/quote]

Come on Irish. He watched for about a year and a half. I agree with some of your points but lets not stretch the truth to make them. :)

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516920]JC isn't accurate enough huh...

Cassell's comp %: 63.4

JC: 62.3[/quote]

Pwned.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;516920]JC isn't accurate enough huh...

Cassell's comp %: 63.4

JC: 62.3[/quote]

Not sure about Cassell but JC probably led the NFL in passes that traveled 10 yards or less. He should complete 65% to 70% IMO.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=irish;516879]Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

JC got to watch for a few years and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.[/quote]

Cassel has been in the league 4 years and got to watch the same exact offense all those years. JC has watched 3 different offenses in his time in the league. It's not a fair comparison is all i am saying. Actually Matt Ryan's season makes JC look bad because he just got in the league and played well imediately.

Re: Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;516606]I think Brady is a product of NE system.

Brady has all of the natural tools I'll give you that but if you put him on another team I don't think he would have the same record numbers that he's had.

So the same goes for Cassell. He can naturally make the throws but NE's system is enhancing his abilities.[/quote]

People crack me up with this silly system talk. Brady is a great QB, end of discussion. There are not that many QB's in the NFL that can sit back in the pocket and beat you by just throwing it 40-50 times a game. He is one of the very few that can do it. He can just sit back in the pocket and pick a defense apart. The guy won 3 SB's with Deion Brach, Troy Brown and David Givens as his WR's. Then when he gets Moss and Welker and puts up numbers that may never be broken. Need I say more??