What it takes to be a playoff team
 

This morning I was watching NFL network and they were running stats. I have never been a stats guy but I was surprised at what it showed.

In the [B]2008 regular season[/B] stats

The top [B]passing [/B]teams:
1) [B]N. O. Saints[/B] - did not make the playoffs
2) [B]Arizona Cardinals[/B] - made it but I am not impressed. They will get beat soon.
3) [B]Denver Broncos[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
4) [B]Houston Texans[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
5) [B]Philly[/B] - Good team

The Top [B]Running [/B]Teams:
1) [B]NY Giants[/B]- Solid playoff team
2) [B]Atlanta Falcons[/B]- average playoff team
3) [B]Carolina Panthers[/B]- Solid playoff team
4) [B]Baltimore Ravens[/B]- Solid playoff team
5) [B]Minn.[/B] Vikings-ok team

The Top [B]Defense [/B] fewest points allowed:
1) Pittsburgh Steelers
2) Tenn. Titans
3) Baltimore Ravens
4) Philadelphia Eagles
5) NY Giants

You have run the ball and play defense.
The passing game while important enough to be balanced on offense, is clearly overrated. The teams that can run the ball effectively a dn play good defense usually win.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

All those teams have good offensive and defensive lines. We Don't.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517696]This morning I was watching NFL network and they were running stats. I have never been a stats guy but I was surprised at what it showed.

In the [B]2008 regular season[/B] stats

The top [B]passing [/B]teams:
1) [B]N. O. Saints[/B] - did not make the playoffs
2) [B]Arizona Cardinals[/B] - made it but I am not impressed. They will get beat soon.
3) [B]Denver Broncos[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
4) [B]Houston Texans[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
5) [B]Philly[/B] - Good team

The Top [B]Running [/B]Teams:
1) [B]NY Giants[/B]- Solid playoff team
2) [B]Atlanta Falcons[/B]- average playoff team
3) [B]Carolina Panthers[/B]- Solid playoff team
4) [B]Baltimore Ravens[/B]- Solid playoff team
5) [B]Minn.[/B] Vikings-ok team

The Top [B]Defense [/B] fewest points allowed:
1) Pittsburgh Steelers
2) Tenn. Titans
3) Baltimore Ravens
4) Philadelphia Eagles
5) NY Giants

You have run the ball and play defense.
The passing game while important enough to be balanced on offense, is clearly overrated. The teams that can run the ball effectively a dn play good defense usually win.[/quote]

Its not just playing good run yds and pass yds stats D its having a D that doesnt allow the other team to score.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=irish;517724]Its not just playing good run yds and pass yds stats D its having a D that doesnt allow the other team to score.[/quote]

That is the [B]third[/B] stat I put in Defense [B]fewest points allowed[/B] stat.

My point in creating this thread is passing game is not as important as the media, fantasy footballers and fans make it out to be. Running the ball and playing good defense wins championships.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517727]That is the [B]third[/B] stat I put in Defense [B]fewest points allowed[/B] stat.

My point in creating this thread is passing game is not as important as the media, fantasy footballers and fans make it out to be. Running the ball and [B]playing good defense wins championships[/B].[/quote]

:woot:

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

Usually 10 wins but sometimes 11 wins is required to guarantee yourself a spot.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517696]...
[B]You have run the ball and play defense[/B].
The passing game while important enough to be balanced on offense, is clearly overrated. The teams that can run the ball effectively a dn play good defense usually win.[/quote]
The teams that do both are teams that are stout in the trenches on both offense and defense. As long as our FO continues neglecting our interior personnel, especially in the draft, we will be a mediocre team at best. I mentioned in another thread that [I]Bill Parcells used 6 of his 9 picks in the 2008 draft on linemen[/I]. Parcells understands that you build a foundation of consistency by addressing the lines FIRST.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517727]That is the [B]third[/B] stat I put in Defense [B]fewest points allowed[/B] stat.

My point in creating this thread is passing game is not as important as the media, fantasy footballers and fans make it out to be. Running the ball and playing good defense wins championships.[/quote]

Any good fantasy football owner knows that RB is the most important position.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=irish;517741]Any good fantasy football owner knows that RB is the most important position.[/quote]

you hit the nail sir

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=saden1;517736]Usually 10 wins but sometimes 11 wins is required to guarantee yourself a spot.[/quote]

Ha, and even this year 11 wins didn't guarantee the Patriots of a playoff spot.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Gmanc711;517758]Ha, and even this year 11 wins didn't guarantee the Patriots of a playoff spot.[/quote]


LOL...true true...I knew I should have went with "win your division."


Seeing the Pats miss the playoffs was sweet.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

take a look at baltimore they have a great defense good offensive line.but little else and they made the playoffs and will go deep into them possibly to afc championship.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=SouperMeister;517738]The teams that do both are teams that are stout in the trenches on both offense and defense. As long as our FO continues neglecting our interior personnel, especially in the draft, we will be a mediocre team at best. I mentioned in another thread that [I]Bill Parcells used 6 of his 9 picks in the 2008 draft on linemen[/I]. Parcells understands that you build a foundation of consistency by addressing the lines FIRST.[/quote]

exactly

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=irish;517741]Any good fantasy football owner knows that RB is the most important position.[/quote]

Yeah but that's only because of supply and demand of featured RBs in fantasy football. That is a completely separate issue from the importance of running the ball successfully in a real NFL game, which of course chews up the clock, wears down the opposing defense, and reduces the risk of turnovers.

I think he's right, everyone wants to jump on the jocks of teams who fling it around. But if you can run and stop the run it's still the best way to win in the NFL.

And I agree with all who say the Redskins need to be stronger in the trenches to truly succeed.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

So... good teams run the ball well and stop the run.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this school of thought is pretty much a no-brainer.

Each year teams and fans get caught up in the big passing games and all the pretty numbers, but in the end the teams that pound the rock and play good D are usually the last ones standing.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

If you noticed that the teams that had good passing numbers had bad D's. I think the Cards success yesterday came from having homefield and fans going crazy and they will not win next week.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517888]So... good teams run the ball well and stop the run.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this school of thought is pretty much a no-brainer.

Each year teams and fans get caught up in the big passing games and all the pretty numbers, but in the end the teams that pound the rock and play good D are usually the last ones standing.[/quote]

Don't you just love the phrase "pound the rock"? It sounds so bad ass. Like yo motherf*cker, step off or I'll pound the rock.

If somebody said that to me I'd be scared. Maybe a little confused too, but mostly scared.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517888]So... good teams run the ball well and stop the run.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this school of thought is pretty much a no-brainer.

Each year teams and fans get caught up in the big passing games and all the pretty numbers, but in the end the teams that pound the rock and play good D are usually the last ones standing.[/quote]


Obviously our FO doesn't agree since we wasted our top 3 picks last year on receivers. :(

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Jake2008;517898]Obviously our FO doesn't agree since we wasted our top 3 picks last year on receivers. :([/quote]

Regardless of that the strength of this team is still running the ball and playing good D. If our running game hadn't come unraveled in the 2nd half of this season this would have been a playoff team.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Jake2008;517898]Obviously our FO doesn't agree since we wasted our top 3 picks last year on receivers. :([/quote]

I would disagree with that, I think running the ball is still a major part of the team's philosophy (evidenced by Portis being #3 in the NFL in carries this year). It's just they overestimated how strong our offensive line was, and relied on the existing older starters to continue playing at their previous level.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Schneed10;517896]Don't you just love the phrase "pound the rock"? It sounds so bad ass. Like yo motherf*cker, step off or I'll pound the rock.

If somebody said that to me I'd be scared. Maybe a little confused too, but mostly scared.[/quote]

lol it's a classic football phrase no doubt

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

Strong Defense seems to be the main factor. Ravens and Eagles drove that point home this weekend. A good running game doesn't hurt either. (isn't that right Sproles?)

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Schneed10;517900]I would disagree with that, I think running the ball is still a major part of the team's philosophy (evidenced by Portis being #3 in the NFL in carries this year). It's just they overestimated how strong our offensive line was, and relied on the existing older starters to continue playing at their previous level.[/quote]

Then our FO failed because they overestimated our own team's line even thou many people thought we needed help on the offensive and defensive lines. IMO our FO gets too excited and fixed on the next big offensive weapon and the 'sexy' picks and we need someone like Parcells to reel them in.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517888]So... good teams run the ball well and stop the run.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this school of thought is pretty much a no-brainer.

[B]Each year teams and fans get caught up in the big passing games and all the pretty numbers, but in the end the teams that pound the rock and play good D are usually the last ones standing.[/B][/quote]

No doubt. See the Indianapolis Colts. 9 game winning streak, league MVP, fancy passing game with Wayne, Harrison, Clark, etc...

Then they can't establish the run at all vs. San Diego, Sproles runs wild on them, and poof. Bye bye win streak, bye bye playoffs.

In the meantime, the Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, and Panthers - all stud running teams with good defenses- are the class of the league.

We have to get bigger/more physical up front, especially on offense.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=GMScud;517905]No doubt. See the Indianapolis Colts. 9 game winning streak, league MVP, fancy passing game with Wayne, Harrison, Clark, etc...

Then they can't establish the run at all vs. San Diego, Sproles runs wild on them, and poof. Bye bye win streak, bye bye playoffs.

In the meantime, the Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, and Panthers - all stud running teams with good defenses- are the class of the league.

We have to get bigger/more physical up front, especially on offense.[/quote]

Agree. And great first point on the Colts. It clearly demonstrates the fact that a QB even a MVP Qb can't do it all. I wanted to start a thread about "what if we had Manning" while all that JC crap was going on but I didn't want to open the discussion back up. For obvious reasons. But it would have been interesting.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

That's why Marino never won a SB. No defense or a running game.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=GMScud;517905]No doubt. See the Indianapolis Colts. 9 game winning streak, league MVP, fancy passing game with Wayne, Harrison, Clark, etc...

Then they can't establish the run at all vs. San Diego, Sproles runs wild on them, and poof. Bye bye win streak, bye bye playoffs.

In the meantime, the Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, and Panthers - all stud running teams with good defenses- are the class of the league.

We have to get bigger/more physical up front, especially on offense.[/quote]

The colts have not been good at the run all year so it was no shock to see it happen on the road in the playoffs.

Dallas has a very good running game but can not stay healthy and the QB turns the ball over way toooo much so that kills them. The defense is decent but gives up big plays to running backs catching or running the ball.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517888]So... good teams run the ball well and stop the run.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this school of thought is pretty much a no-brainer.

Each year teams and fans get caught up in the big passing games and all the pretty numbers, but in the end the teams that pound the rock and play good D are usually the last ones standing.[/quote]

Unless your offense is off the charts like the Kurt Warner led Rams or the Skins of yesteryear (although the Skins were rock solid on both sides of the ball). I like that some years a team like the Ravens and Bears of 86 can win and some years the Rams and Colts can win. Irrestible Force meets Immovable Object!

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

Someone pointed out that Bill Parcells drafted six lineman in last year's draft as his way of rebuilding the franchise. True 'dat.

[B]More importantly[/B], some of those rookie linemen actually - you know - put on their pads and [B]played in games on Sunday afternoons[/B]. He didn't just accumulate large bodies with the hope that someday a few of them might be taught how to play. He drafted guys who could actually play as rookies.

Perhaps the scouts and the FO for the Redskins could take notes here...

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517696]This morning I was watching NFL network and they were running stats. I have never been a stats guy but I was surprised at what it showed.

In the [B]2008 regular season[/B] stats

The top [B]passing [/B]teams:
1) [B]N. O. Saints[/B] - did not make the playoffs
2) [B]Arizona Cardinals[/B] - made it but I am not impressed. They will get beat soon.
3) [B]Denver Broncos[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
4) [B]Houston Texans[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
5) [B]Philly[/B] - Good team

The Top [B]Running [/B]Teams:
1) [B]NY Giants[/B]- Solid playoff team
2) [B]Atlanta Falcons[/B]- average playoff team
3) [B]Carolina Panthers[/B]- Solid playoff team
4) [B]Baltimore Ravens[/B]- Solid playoff team
5) [B]Minn.[/B] Vikings-ok team

The Top [B]Defense [/B] fewest points allowed:
1) Pittsburgh Steelers
2) Tenn. Titans
3) Baltimore Ravens
4) Philadelphia Eagles
5) NY Giants

You have run the ball and play defense.
The passing game while important enough to be balanced on offense, is clearly overrated. The teams that can run the ball effectively a dn play good defense usually win.[/quote]

The top running teams also spread the ball around, while Zorn decided to run Portis into the ground and all but ignored the RBs in the passing game(Turner and Peterson had more carries, but they don't have near the wear and tear Portis does):

Carries
Giants - Jacobs 219, Ward 182, Bradshaw 67
Falcons - Turner 376, Norwood 95 (and 36 receptions), Ryan 55
Panthers - Williams 273, Stewart 184
Ravens - McClain 232, McGahee 170, Rice 107, Flacco 52
Vikings - Peterson 363, Taylor 101 (and 45 receptions)

Redskins - Portis 342, Betts 61 (only 6 more than Flacco), Campbell 47

With our receiving corps, you would think the running backs would be a bigger part of the passing game. I'd love to see Rock get a few passes each game. We've seen what he can do in open space. Look how the Chargers utilized Sproles and the Eagles utilized Westbrook (71 yard screen pass for a TD yesterday). Even the Dolphins got some big plays from a dude named Cobbs... their third RB.

I'm just sayin'.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=44ever;517909]Agree. And great first point on the Colts. It clearly demonstrates the fact that a QB even a MVP Qb can't do it all. I wanted to start a thread about "what if we had Manning" while all that JC crap was going on but I didn't want to open the discussion back up. For obvious reasons. But it would have been interesting.[/quote]

How about, "What if we had Flacco"? He would have sucked playing for the Skins and probably wouldn't have made it through the season in tact.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;517919]Someone pointed out that Bill Parcells drafted six lineman in last year's draft as his way of rebuilding the franchise. True 'dat.

[B]More importantly[/B], some of those rookie linemen actually - you know - put on their pads and [B]played in games on Sunday afternoons[/B]. He didn't just accumulate large bodies with the hope that someday a few of them might be taught how to play. He drafted guys who could actually play as rookies.

Perhaps the scouts and the FO for the Redskins could take notes here...[/quote]

He would have played our guys as well if he drafted them. I don't care if Kelly and Thomas were going out for passes riding unicycles. Our passing game couldn't have been any worse than it was. Now we'll have to suffer through watching both of them (and Davis) make rookie mistakes next year, because they didn't see the field enough this year. They'll have games like DeSean Jackson had against us (and it could cost games).

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=44Deezel;517924]How about, "What if we had Flacco"? He would have sucked playing for the Skins and probably wouldn't have made it through the season in tact.[/quote]

That would work to. But Matty would probably have to lock it by the first page :)

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

I do not care what the stats tell you, here is the truth.

If you score more points than your opponent, then you win.

If you prevent them from scoring more points than you, then you win.

Note 1: It does not matter if you did it by running the ball, passing the ball, or returning the ball as long as you score points and keep the other team out of the endzone.

Note 2: If you do these things better than 20 other teams, then you will make the playoffs.


Let me ask you a question, what do the experts say if SD were to win the SB? They didn't finish top 5 in any category so the whole theory would go to crap.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

A real GM, not some yes man who puts together rosters like its a fantasy football squad.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

You need to start a team from the top down to the players. Our FO just pays people who they think will make revenue for the franchise they don't care if Portis calls out the Head Coach. If we had a no nonsense guy like [B]Parcells[/B] we would see alot more playoff births and wins than being a 500 team.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

The Redskins didn't score more than 30 points once this year. Not a single time. It's important to have balance. All the teams you listed with high powered throwing attacks, don't have anything remotely resembling a running game. However, the run teams you listed are all able to pass the ball VERY effectively. Having a run game helps, but having a TRUE #1 WR helps a ton too. Keeps them from stacking the box every play.

Like it or not, this makes the Giants radically different with and without Plaxico Burress.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Daseal;517956]The Redskins didn't score more than 30 points once this year. Not a single time. It's important to have balance. All the teams you listed with high powered throwing attacks, don't have anything remotely resembling a running game. However, the run teams you listed are all able to pass the ball VERY effectively. Having a run game helps, but having a TRUE #1 WR helps a ton too. Keeps them from stacking the box every play.

Like it or not, this makes the Giants radically different with and without Plaxico Burress.[/quote]

Radically? That's debatable. The Giants had good games without him. They scored 44 against the Seahawks (and only beat the Bengals 26-23 in OT with him) and scored 34 against Carolina. In fact, his only 100 yard game was against the Skins in week 1 when they scored 16 points. His best game after week 2 was 4 catches for 58 yards against Cleveland. I know he draws coverage, but the Giants are still a good team, running AND passing, without him and it won't surprise anyone if they still win it all.

Now watch them go out and lay an egg against the Eagles;)

I wouldn't describe Carolina's or Minnesota's passing games as VERY effective either. Their passing games were credible and it was impossible to make either of them one dimensional (Eli killed us when we held the run in check).

And I'm not sure a "true" #1 WR is all that important. The Chargers, Ravens and Eagles looked pretty good without one. As much as I'd like to have a top WR, I think there's better places to spend money. There are a lot of top WRs who didn't make the playoffs this year or probably won't be going that far - (Andre Johnson, Randy Moss, TO, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne, etc.). I think it's more important to spread the ball around (WRs, TEs, Backs, etc.), so the offense can still function if any single player is taken out.

We heard all year long that Moss was being double teamed downfield. If so, why not design more plays underneath to the RBs? McNabb had a 71 yard TD pass on a 5 yard dump off yesterday and Sproles and Cobbs had big plays in the passing game for SD and Miami.

I think the Skins could have had a better passing offense with better coaching and better play calling.

But in the end you're right. It takes balance.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=Defensewins;517696]This morning I was watching NFL network and they were running stats. I have never been a stats guy but I was surprised at what it showed.

In the [B]2008 regular season[/B] stats

The top [B]passing [/B]teams:
1) [B]N. O. Saints[/B] - did not make the playoffs
2) [B]Arizona Cardinals[/B] - made it but I am not impressed. They will get beat soon.
3) [B]Denver Broncos[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
4) [B]Houston Texans[/B] - Did not make the playoffs
5) [B]Philly[/B] - Good team

The Top [B]Running [/B]Teams:
1) [B]NY Giants[/B]- Solid playoff team
2) [B]Atlanta Falcons[/B]- average playoff team
3) [B]Carolina Panthers[/B]- Solid playoff team
4) [B]Baltimore Ravens[/B]- Solid playoff team
5) [B]Minn.[/B] Vikings-ok team

The Top [B]Defense [/B] fewest points allowed:
1) Pittsburgh Steelers
2) Tenn. Titans
3) Baltimore Ravens
4) Philadelphia Eagles
5) NY Giants

You have run the ball and play defense.
The passing game while important enough to be balanced on offense, is clearly overrated. The teams that can run the ball effectively a dn play good defense usually win.[/quote]


you might not be impressed with the Cards, but they made the playoffs, so wheather they get beat or not......what makes a good playoff team is having all the right parts.

Re: What it takes to be a playoff team
 

[quote=53Fan;517728]:woot:[/quote]


Yardage given up doesn't mean that much. If you have say an above average D yardage wise, but they are #1 in takeaways, that D will be more effective in getting your team to the playoffs than a D that has the lowestYPG allowed and few turnovers. Just look at Greg Williams' defenses, pretty good with the YPG allowed, but generated few turnovers. Blache's D this season was just as bad almost with the lack of turnovers, which really hurts since our offense turned anemic after the bye.