Some offseason optimism
 

We've all had window seats on the Bitter Bus the past few weeks (and I stirred up enough negativity with the Vick thread) so I figured I'd put forth a few positives entering this year vs. last year:

1. Stability-The dreaded "s" word. For the first time in a long time we're not going into the offseason either installing a new offense or a new defense or someone learning an important position on the job (Campell in '07). We should be able to focus on execution, expansion of the offense and fine tuning the defense.

2. Injuries-Other than Samuels, we've got no other starters that will require significant offseason rehab and recovery. Remember last year we had questions about Rogers, McIntosh, R. Thomas and Jansen being able to start the season healthy. This year we're going into the offseason work with virtually all hands on deck.

3. Familiarity-While the roster will see some much needed change, we are almost assured to enter 2009 with the same skill position players we ended the season with. Campbell, Portis, Cooley, Moss, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Sellers on offense, Landry, Horton, Springs, Hall & Rogers (assuming Hall signs and Rogers isn't traded) on defense. It's been said ad naseum that our major flaw is in the trenches. I think it's significant that the players we count on to have or be around the ball are not having to learn anything new or differently and can just build on whatever foundation is here.

What are some of the other positives we can highlight?

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

GREAT thread. Thank you!

I think giving Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcolm Kelly a full offseason to work with Campbell and the other pass catchers do develop rhythm and rapport will be huge for the passing game.

Also, JC having yet another offseason to absorb more of this offense will be a big deal as well.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I go back to Hasselbeck. It took him two years to get up and running at a high level in Seattle. So by the end of next season we should theoretically see things coming together.

Pass protection has to be there though, or it won't matter.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I will be excited to see how the rook WRs develope as well. If they step up Skins will be in good shape.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=Paintrain;518231]We've all had window seats on the Bitter Bus the past few weeks (and I stirred up enough negativity with the Vick thread) so I figured I'd put forth a few positives entering this year vs. last year:

1. Stability-The dreaded "s" word. For the first time in a long time we're not going into the offseason either installing a new offense or a new defense or someone learning an important position on the job (Campell in '07). We should be able to focus on execution, expansion of the offense and fine tuning the defense.

2. Injuries-Other than Samuels, we've got no other starters that will require significant offseason rehab and recovery. Remember last year we had questions about Rogers, McIntosh, R. Thomas and Jansen being able to start the season healthy. This year we're going into the offseason work with virtually all hands on deck.

3. Familiarity-While the roster will see some much needed change, we are almost assured to enter 2009 with the same skill position players we ended the season with. Campbell, Portis, Cooley, Moss, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Sellers on offense, Landry, Horton, Springs, Hall & Rogers (assuming Hall signs and Rogers isn't traded) on defense. It's been said ad naseum that our major flaw is in the trenches. I think it's significant that the players we count on to have or be around the ball are not having to learn anything new or differently and can just build on whatever foundation is here.

What are some of the other positives we can highlight?[/quote]

Thanks for the positive thread.

I like what you said in 3) about building on our exsiting foundation. Without it I don't care who we bring in. The revolving door would just continue to turn.

I'm excited that instead of just replacing a HC. We have replaced our entire Offensive philosophy (WCO)

For the first time in a long time I'm actually looking forward to next season!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

Also our head coach will have worked out many stumbling blocks from his rookie season. As Vinny said, he should be much improved next season because he will be seeing many situations from this year repeat themselves, and know how to react better.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

Also, it only takes one great draft combined with players who are already on the roster to build something great. Case in point: the 1981 Draft which led to the birth of The Hogs.

In 1981 we added Mark May, Russ Grimm, and Joe Jacoby (UDFA). It could happen again!

BTW, in 1981 we also added Dexter Manley, Larry Kubin, Charlie Brown, Darryl Grant, and Clint Didier. That had to be one of the greatest drafts in NFL history.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I've been wondering lately about Phillip Daniels and the potential impact he could have next year (if he's even back, which I'm not sure of). Even though he is getting up there in years I think I'd feel pretty comfortable with him back on the D-line clogging up the running lanes.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=GMScud;518235]GREAT thread. Thank you!

I think giving Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcolm Kelly a full offseason to work with Campbell and the other pass catchers do develop rhythm and rapport will be huge for the passing game.

Also, JC having yet another offseason to absorb more of this offense will be a big deal as well.[/quote]

I think that all the receivers mentioned should spend their offseason practicing, living, breathing and eating with JC. I would love to see all 3 produce next year in addition to Moss and ARE and with an improved OL, we could kick some ass!!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;518258]Also, it only takes one great draft combined with players who are already on the roster to build something great. Case in point: the 1981 Draft which led to the birth of The Hogs.

In 1981 we added Mark May, Russ Grimm, and Joe Jacoby (UDFA). It could happen again!

BTW, in 1981 we also added Dexter Manley, Larry Kubin, Charlie Brown, Darryl Grant, and Clint Didier. That had to be one of the greatest drafts in NFL history.[/quote]

Where are my tissues? Those were the days!
You're apsolutly right.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;518259]I've been wondering lately about Phillip Daniels and the potential impact he could have next year (if he's even back, which I'm not sure of). Even though he is getting up there in years I think I'd feel pretty comfortable with him back on the D-line clogging up the running lanes.[/quote]

I think it was JLC that commented recently that his rehab is going well and he expects to play again next year. I know Blache loves him so I would think he'll be back.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

nice thread Pain! my center of gravity has been restored

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I expect the Skins to be better next season. I am very optimistic considering the fact that Zorn did a pretty good job the first half of the season. Our young WR will be maturer and I'm hopeful Fred Davis + Chris Cooley (aka FDCC insurance) will excited Redskins fans and terrorize NFL defenses. I'm hoping we draft decent players in the first few rounds that meet needs, maybe trade away future picks to get more second round players.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=saden1;518367]I expect the Skins to be better next season. I am very optimistic considering the fact that Zorn did a pretty good job the first half of the season. Our young WR will be maturer and I'm hopeful Fred Davis + Chris Cooley (aka FDCC insurance) will excited Redskins fans and terrorize NFL defenses. I'm hoping we draft decent players in the first few rounds that meet needs, [B]maybe trade away future picks [/B]to get more second round players.[/quote]

Maybe trade down later in the first round, then, trade that pick further down into the 2nd round! I don't want to mortgage future picks, just utilze what we have to it's fullest potential. I loved the idea of 3 #2s last year, but didn't like two receivers and a TE! I would have preferred a WR, DL, and OL at those spots, and the DL & OL is still a glaring need!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I've tried to not put too much stock into this year with the belief that next year is when we will see real improvement. I still feel that way. One more year in this offense is something I can get excited about. I fully expect improvements from JC and the receivers. JC is ahead of schedule in my opinion. Whether it was forced because of our play this year or not, I don't care, it looks like we are finally going to address our lines and I think that's GREAT. I think that will help lay the foundation for success for many years to come. I'm excited about the draft and seeing the moves we make during the offseason and I'm happy we've stayed on track instead of firing the coach and starting a new offensive system yet again. Great Thread Pain! HAIL REDSKINS!!!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=backrow;518371]Maybe trade down later in the first round, then, trade that pick further down into the 2nd round! I don't want to mortgage future picks, just utilze what we have to it's fullest potential. I loved the idea of 3 #2s last year, but didn't like two receivers and a TE! I would have preferred a WR, DL, and OL at those spots, and the DL & OL is still a glaring need![/quote]

If there's no one good that can fill a need then, yeah, trade our 1st round pick otherwise keep it. I really like the picks of two WR and a TE, it spreads risk quite nicely. Hopefully we can get some more gems in the 2nd round this year.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=saden1;518373]If there's no one good that can fill a need then, yeah, trade our 1st round pick otherwise keep it. I really like the picks of two WR and a TE, it spreads risk quite nicely. Hopefully we can get some more gems in the 2nd round this year.[/quote]

I say we take either the best LB or OL available with the 13th pick. That could be Eugene Monroe, James Laurinitis, Brian Cushing, Jason Smith, Duke Robinson, Brandon Spikes... I'd be thrilled with any of those guys.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

Great thread PT. One more positive I might add is our schedule for next year, from the brief glance I gave it we look to have things I little easier than '08. Previous years I wouldn't really point to this but under Zorn I think we've won all but two of the games we should have IMO (should not have lost to St. Louis or Cinci - I sort of expected the loss to SanFran), so I'm taking a risk in hoping next year we actually have an above average season since... jeez when was and last?

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=Paintrain;518231]We've all had window seats on the Bitter Bus the past few weeks (and I stirred up enough negativity with the Vick thread) so I figured I'd put forth a few positives entering this year vs. last year:

1. Stability-The dreaded "s" word. For the first time in a long time we're not going into the offseason either installing a new offense or a new defense or someone learning an important position on the job (Campell in '07). We should be able to focus on execution, expansion of the offense and fine tuning the defense.

2. Injuries-Other than Samuels, we've got no other starters that will require significant offseason rehab and recovery. Remember last year we had questions about Rogers, McIntosh, R. Thomas and Jansen being able to start the season healthy. This year we're going into the offseason work with virtually all hands on deck.

3. Familiarity-While the roster will see some much needed change, we are almost assured to enter 2009 with the same skill position players we ended the season with. Campbell, Portis, Cooley, Moss, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Sellers on offense, Landry, Horton, Springs, Hall & Rogers (assuming Hall signs and Rogers isn't traded) on defense. It's been said ad naseum that our major flaw is in the trenches. I think it's significant that the players we count on to have or be around the ball are not having to learn anything new or differently and can just build on whatever foundation is here.

What are some of the other positives we can highlight?[/quote]

I'm not down with the familiarity or stability excuse. Guys move around all the time and it's business as usual (rookie QBs, RBs and WRs who produce right away, rookie coaches make the playoffs, veteran QBs like Brees going to NO and putting up huge numbers from day 1 and others like Pennington this year, backup QBs stepping right in, etc.). This is the Pros.

I am optimistic that the Skins will dust off all of their weapons next year and become more dynamic and difficult to defend on offense - use a 2 or 3 back system, get Kelly, Thomas and Davis on the field early and often (and use ARE like he was used in Pittsburgh), better utilize Campbell's legs, more creative play calling (use the backs in the passing game, some Wildcat and other gadget plays every game, no huddle here and there, move the pocket around, naked bootlegs on the goal line, etc.).

Throw in some tweaks on defense to create more sacks, turnovers and be generally more disruptive - and presto chango, the Skins are back in the playoffs, maybe even going deep.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

Yeah I stirred up about half of the stuff up on the Vick thread. Sorry everyone I'm trying to quit smoking and it's a bitch. I also work in the mortgage industry and things are, shall we say, hectic right now with 4.5% rates.
I say let it ride. After reading about the Salary cap, great thread by the way, I can see most of our guys coming back and for the first time healthy.
I'm also optimistic about FA and the draft because I think Vinny and Danny are starting to learn their lessons.
We did sweep the Eagles and that is always good and we did beat Dallas at least once. I'd be happy with another NFC East win against Dallas or the Jersey Giants.
If things don't work out then we'll blow it up. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. I'm looking forward to another season to see what Z can do. If we can start bumping up wins every season then we'll get there.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=Paintrain;518231]1. Stability-The dreaded "s" word. For the first time in a long time we're not going into the offseason either installing a new offense or a new defense or someone learning an important position on the job (Campell in '07). We should be able to focus on execution, expansion of the offense and fine tuning the defense.[/quote]

I think stability is huge and something that this team has not had in the past three/four years.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I'm usually optimistic in the offseason in part because I tend to overestimate how well some young players & free agents will fare.

After this season I'm less optimistic about next year in terms of putting up a winning record. I see the D potentially taking major steps backwards w/age in crucial positions & I fear the wrath of D. Hall, having seen my VT teams fall apart in the past w/many blaming him for locker room discontent. On the other hand, our D has often pleasantly surprised me going back to R. Pettibon's tenure.

If there's reason for optimism I think it's the fact that Zorn will be in his 2nd year & everybody will start to catch on, as others have mentioned. If Thomas & Kelly can become starting caliber wr's, as they should, and some offseason moves improve the O line (I'm for drafting a RT that could start right away) then by mid to late season the offense should start to click. I have faith in JC (J. Campbell :)).

My greatest fear is that this team is in a rebuilding mode and wins 5 to 6 in 09, then Danny gives Zorn the axe. Unless some changes are made, this team is no better than the 2-6 record it finished this year with. If we have to go through some rebuilding so be it, just give JZ a chance to see it through in 2010, that's when I think we should have higher expectations.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=freddyg12;518508]I'm usually optimistic in the offseason in part because I tend to overestimate how well some young players & free agents will fare.

After this season I'm less optimistic about next year in terms of putting up a winning record. I see the D potentially taking major steps backwards w/age in crucial positions & I fear the wrath of D. Hall, having seen my VT teams fall apart in the past w/many blaming him for locker room discontent. On the other hand, our D has often pleasantly surprised me going back to R. Pettibon's tenure.

If there's reason for optimism I think it's the fact that Zorn will be in his 2nd year & everybody will start to catch on, as others have mentioned. If Thomas & Kelly can become starting caliber wr's, as they should, and some offseason moves improve the O line (I'm for drafting a RT that could start right away) then by mid to late season the offense should start to click. I have faith in JC (J. Campbell :)).

[b]My greatest fear is that this team is in a rebuilding mode and wins 5 to 6 in 09, then Danny gives Zorn the axe. Unless some changes are made, this team is no better than the 2-6 record it finished this year with. If we have to go through some rebuilding so be it, just give JZ a chance to see it through in 2010, that's when I think we should have higher expectations.[/b][/quote]

You make some good points there. The 'new Snyder' has shown a little more patience and I believe ordinarily even if we have a rebuilding year (4-12, 6-10) Zorn would be given a 3rd season to make good but with Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan out there and available I don't see Snyder sitting idle with a disappointing season and that kind of talent available out there.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

^^^ agree. But, I think our 2010 challenge can potentially be at Running Back. Not HC imo. I think Zorn will get 3 years min.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

Vinny said during an interview that both he and Zorn had TWO years. my one hope is that Zorn and Vinny both prove what failures they are and get the axe and this time next year, we are talking about how glad we are to have Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan as our coach for the next 10 years.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518593]Vinny said during an interview that both he and Zorn had TWO years. my one hope is that Zorn and Vinny both prove what failures they are and get the axe and this time next year, we are talking about how glad we are to have Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan as our coach for the next 10 years.[/quote]

How on earth after an 8 win rookie season can we be calling Zorn a failure???

I guess your version of offseason optimism is hoping for epic failures from our head coach and front office, prompting yet another sweeping change...

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

if you blame Z for a 8-8. Then you need to blame him for a OTR win in Dallas and a Eagles sweep. I'll take that for a start.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I hope we pull a move similar to the PATS last year where they traded back thier 1st rd pick and moved back 3 or 4 spots and still added additional picks without falling to far down the board. We need to make sure to focus on both sides of the line, and look for a OLB! Also, if anyone from Redskins park is reading this, NO TE this year please, we have enough!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=GMScud;518376]I say we take either the best LB or OL available with the 13th pick. That could be Eugene Monroe, James Laurinitis, Brian Cushing, Jason Smith, Duke Robinson, Brandon Spikes... I'd be thrilled with any of those guys.[/quote]

I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518617]I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/quote]

Well, I agree that 13 is probably too high for Robinson. But he's been compared to Steve Hutchinson, who incidentally was a first round pick. Plus a lot of people are saying Robinson could possibly play T at well in the pros, though he's better suited for Guard.

I think if you can trade down to later in the first round, or up into the early 2nd round and pick up extra picks along the way, and Robinson is there...then he's a great pickup.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=SmootSmack;518622]Well, I agree that 13 is probably too high for Robinson. But he's been compared to Steve Hutchinson, who incidentally was a first round pick. Plus a lot of people are saying Robinson could possibly play T at well in the pros, though he's better suited for Guard.

I think if you can trade down to later in the first round, or up into the early 2nd round and pick up extra picks along the way, and Robinson is there...then he's a great pickup.[/quote]

If Duke Robinson is comparable to Hutchinson as a player, then he's special and worth a 1st round pick. So, in view of our OL problems, I would rather take Duke at No. 13 than to risk losing him.

I remember wanting the Skins to take Hutchinson and being disappointed when we took 50/50 instead.

[B]Get Jordan Gross or Stacy Andrews in Free Agency and Duke in the Draft and we'll be much better next season.[/B]

[I]Note to Vinnie: Read and memorize the [B]bold[/B] text above and obey my commands.[/I]

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I say we spend the 13th pick on Moreno, what the hell, we drafted Fred Davis last year with Pro Bowl Cooley, so now we need a high pick at a position with Pro Bowl Portis! Unless I am missing out on some sort of first round fullback legend to back Sellers! WHOOOOO! I love this time of year when we start talking draft and start seeing how crazy Vinny is gonna get!

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=GMScud;518598]How on earth after an 8 win rookie season can we be calling Zorn a failure???

I guess your version of offseason optimism is hoping for epic failures from our head coach and front office, prompting yet another sweeping change...[/quote]

Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - [I]the one thing that was working right![/I] - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season.

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518593]Vinny said during an interview that both he and Zorn had TWO years. my one hope is that Zorn and Vinny both prove what failures they are and get the axe and this time next year, we are talking about how glad we are to have Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan as our coach for the next 10 years.[/quote]

so a coach - Shanahan - that could not win a division that had an 8-8 division champ is better than a rookie coach that had an 8-8 record. The grass is always greener :rolleyes:

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;518654]so a coach - Shanahan - that could not win a division that had an 8-8 division champ is better than a rookie coach that had an 8-8 record. The grass is always greener :rolleyes:[/quote]

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518656]Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.[/quote]

So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518656]Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.[/quote]

And I would again say Cowher has 1 SB in how many years. Why on earth can't we just allow people time to develop. Shanahan and Cowher were great [U]because[/U] they had owners who allowed them to have up and down seasons. Shanahan hasn't been to the SB since when, had 3 mediocre seasons in a row and could never regain the magic he had with Elway and Davis. Why would he here. A similar statement can be made with Cowher. The NFC East is not the AFC North or West, it will always be more brutal then those two divisions. Snyder needs to, as he did with Gibbs, give Zorn years to develop to his full potential. Hopefully they chose wisely when they picked him.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team.

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;518653][B]Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - [I]the one thing that was working right![/I] - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season. [/B]

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.[/quote]

That is my biggest fear. Was the 6-2 start a carry over from Gibbs and is the 2-6 finish what we should expect from Zorn.

I'm trying very hard to think of something to be optimistic about but I have to admit I'm failing. :(

Re: Some offseason optimism
 

[quote=SmootSmack;518661]So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?[/quote]

1. I would interview Morocco Brown, Scott Pioli, Bill Parcells, and Mike Holmgren off the top of my head, if they are available. I would also offer Mike Ditka or Jimmy Johnson a ton of money to take the job, but the chances of that are slim to none. I would also consider other execs in the Giants or Patriots, and Eagles front offices - those are teams that have good drafts each and every year.

2. The WCO isnt the problem and i never indicated that it was - my criticism of Zorn was changing up the running game - the one part of the offense that WAS working - midseason. Also, Zorn plain sucks as a playcaller. Shanahan would be immensely superior in that capacity. he would also realize that sherman smith has no business being an offensive coordinator and hire someone with some talent.

3. If Vinny was being truthful when he said he would be fired if he didnt turn the team around by next year then yes, i do hope the team fails. This franchise will never Never NEVER [B]NEVER[/B] return to its glory days until Vinny Cerrato is gone and we have a strong GM who does more than just act like an enabler to Snyder. I want whats best for this team long-term. If 2009 has to be horrible for that to happen, then yes, i want the team to fail. The higher our draft picks are in every round of the 2010 draft, the more enticing the GM and Head Coaching jobs will be to Cerrato and Zorns replacements.