If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

If it is true that Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn must make the playoffs next season to keep their jobs, then what would you do to improve the team if you were in their shoes?

I’ve looked at Schneed10’s excellent Salary Cap Status – 2009 thread (I’m not going to summarize it here, so you may need to read it yourself to follow along) and, if I were Vinny or Jim, I’d make most of the moves that he mentioned but I would go further because I would need to feel that I had addressed the things that were most likely to cost me my job.

We can’t count on a new CBA, so we need to deal with putting next year’s team together with the salary cap the way it is right now. Schneed10 projects the Skins to be $0.6M under the cap after making the moves he foresees. Those moves include cutting Marcus Washington and salary reductions for Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs. That’s obviously not enough money to address our most critical needs in Free Agency and I don’t think that we can count on any drafted player to fill a critical need next season, so more cuts or trades will need to be made if V&J are to keep their jobs.

There aren’t that many places to look to free up cap space. As it turns out, some of the players who could be cut or traded are injury prone and injuries are a major factor in a team’s success or failure. If a player can’t stay on the field, then he is not going to help the team to get to the playoffs. So, I would not re-sign Shawn Springs and Cornelius Griffin, thus saving $6.7M against the cap. They may be our best CB and DT, respectively, but if they’re not on the field, it doesn’t matter.

With Phillip Daniels coming back, Jason Taylor will probably be used as a hybrid LB/DE or, worse, as a part-time DE. I’d pass on that a $4.0M price tag (assuming he accepts a salary reduction). By not re-signing him, we save another $4.5M.

With the projected emergence of the young WR’s and TE, we could also release James Thrash and Todd Yoder, thus saving another $1.6M.

Those moves would put us $13.4M under the current salary cap.

Now what do we do? First, we desperately need a RT to protect JC. I’d sign FA RT Stacy Andrews. Second, we need a solid DT. I’d sign FA DT Rocky Bernard who has much of the same skill set as Griffin, only he’s younger, healthier and, therefore, more productive. Thirdly, if there’s enough cap space remaining after those signings, I’d try to pick up a FA LB.

If there is a new CBA and, with it, an increase in the salary cap, then I’d go after FA LB Karlos Dansby to replace Marcus Washington.

We need a game breaker. So, in the draft, I’d select Percy Harvin (I assume he’ll be in the draft) who could be our “Slash” as a PR/KR/RB/Slot Receiver. Yes, I know we need to draft linemen, and we will. But first, I need to keep my job. So, we’re bringing in proven, but still young, FA players to fill our greatest needs and drafting a home run hitter to help us score more points.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Good analysis of the numbers, I always love to see that. This is one of the many combinations of moves the Skins could make to get well under the cap for a free agent run.

Of course, the downside is you're turning over at the following starting positions:

- OLB, Washington
- CB, Springs
- DE, Taylor
- DT, Griffin
- RT, Jansen/Heyer

And then if you don't resign Kendall and go with somebody younger, you're turning over at LG, too. That's a lot of turnover and change for someone looking to save their job.

If Vinny is indeed on the hot seat (and I want to emphasize that's just rumor at this point), then he's caught between a rock and a hard place. If he's got just this one season to save himself, it's a pretty tough choice to make:

- Do I turn this roster over for fear that they'll be too old/inept to compete this season, thereby taking the risk that so much change will result in a learning curve and a tough year?

- Or do I stick to my guns and ride the players I have in the hopes that continuity will help Zorn take the next step, taking the risk that my players will be too old?

If it were me, I'd dance with the girl I brought to the ball. I'd keep the roster intact, fill it out with a little bit of depth and youth through the draft, and hope that the team rebounds.

Why? Well, is Randy Thomas just old and done, or was it his neck (disc problem) that held him back? Maybe he bounces back. Is Jason Taylor old and a poor fit for this system, or can Blache get more out of him in a season free of calf injuries? Can Phillip Daniels come back and make a difference as an interior pass rusher on 3rd down?

If I'm Vinny I'm playing the cards I was dealt, and betting that the same players that took us to the playoffs in 2007 under Gibbs can do it again under a 2nd year of Zorn.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

If I werre VINNY, I'd sign a number of veterans aged 29 and up to contracts that would make them uncutable for atleast 2-3 years. Then I would trade a 2010 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick this year and a 2nd round pick next year for a 3rd round pick this year.

This would:
1) Allow me to upgrade the team NOW; and
2a)Make the the team less attractive for someone who would potentiall replace/fire me if hired by Snyder in 2010 (ie, why would Bill Cowher/Mike Shanahan/Mike Holmgren come to a team with a bunch of old veterans AND no high draft picks?)
2b)Increase the likelyhood that I keep my job a 3rd year, if for no other reason than Snyder would not be able to find anyone who wanted to take my position.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Well the first problem is that I don't know if anyone (outside of Vinny and Danny) know exactly what it is that Cerrato has to accomplish. Is is it make the playoffs? Win the division? Make the NFC Championship game?

Secondly, the temptation is to throw all your chips into 2009 (2010 and beyond be damned). But suppose you make the playoffs, but then completely tank in 2010 does that just mean you're losing your job in 2010?

There has to be a balance of turnover and continuity. How that's achieved is something I'll need to think over and get back to you

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

I am not sure you can count on CB Springs to renegotiate his deal. He has refused to renegotiate the last two off seasons, why would be willing this year?

Depending on what kind of cap number Jason Taylor is willing to come down to, I wonder if the temptation to get the entire $8.5M in cap space by his release will outweigh his potential improved play and say a $4M in cap space? I would cut Taylor and draft a pass rush DE with the 1st round pick. I would not gamble that Taylor, who will turn 35 in September will have another MVP season. As a GM, I would not accept a $4m cap number for an old, injury prone situational pass rusher. If he were a starter and produced in 2008, I would do it. But 2008 was a bad year for Taylor.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere. It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520528][B]No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere.[/B] It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.[/quote]

I agree, Vinny will never get fired. At worst they will move him to another position.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

Regarding specific players I think the path of pragmatism is likely drive Vinny's decisions. Guys like Springs, Taylor, and Daniels either 1) cost absurd sums to retain (especially considering what we get out of them) or 2) miss too much time to be counted on or 3) fit into both categories. Very easy to justify cutting them (cutting Taylor doesn't cost a dime, Springs has never shown inclination to restructure or help the team and Daniels has been hurt a ton). Goners from a practical perspective - dump them and we instantaneously have at least a few million in the bank.

Griffin and Washington appear to be special cases IMO. Washington will be relatively expensive to replace but could be cut and resigned or restructured on the cheap. Griffin is our best DT and he was a GD warrior this season, playing very solid through injuries. I think it was his best season since '05 not looking at statistics and that should count for something. Also we keep coming up against the reality of owning so few draft picks but needing to make serious upgrades on the o-line (probably have to draft/sign 1 or 2 very legit starters by opening day). In short i could see Marcus and Cornelius stay on another year because we may not have the resources to replace them and they're salaries can be manipulated.

Jansen isn't going anywhere. I don't care what happens to Heyer as long as he doesn't start.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520528]No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere. It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.[/quote]
You are right, JZ needs to stay! My jury is out on VC.....for now
Many fans including Skins fans scream for "Cowher"..........but they forget how many seasons it took to reach the pinacle.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=The Goat;520531]
Griffin and Washington appear to be special cases IMO. Washington will be relatively expensive to replace but could be cut and resigned or restructured on the cheap. Griffin is our best DT and he was a GD warrior this season, playing very solid through injuries. I think it was his best season since '05 not looking at statistics and that should count for something.[/quote]

I think Washington is done.

As for Griffin, I agree with what you said about the quality of his play; however, he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be on the field as much as we need him to be on it. Rocky Bernard had over twice as many tackles as CG and he had 4 sacks (CG had 1). That's a lot more production for the money.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520522]If I werre VINNY, I'd sign a number of veterans aged 29 and up to contracts that would make them uncutable for atleast 2-3 years. Then I would trade a 2010 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick this year and a 2nd round pick next year for a 3rd round pick this year.

This would:
1) Allow me to upgrade the team NOW; and
2a)Make the the team less attractive for someone who would potentiall replace/fire me if hired by Snyder in 2010 (ie, why would Bill Cowher/Mike Shanahan/Mike Holmgren come to a team with a bunch of old veterans AND no high draft picks?)
2b)Increase the likelyhood that I keep my job a 3rd year, if for no other reason than Snyder would not be able to find anyone who wanted to take my position.[/quote]

This could happen w/ VC.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

get rid of everybody! start new.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=redsk1;520542]This could happen w/ VC.[/quote]

Jeez, you think?

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Schneed10;520515]Of course, the downside is you're turning over at the following starting positions:

- OLB, Washington
- CB, Springs
- DE, Taylor
- DT, Griffin
- RT, Jansen/Heyer[/quote]

You don't really believe that Springs, Washington, and Griffin will be healthy enough to make a difference next year, do you? They'll each play four games healthy, four games hurt, and miss eight games. That is not acceptable.

Jansen/Heyer = Disaster at RT. You may fear too much change, but surely you would agree that this position must be improved, wouldn't you?

Taylor would need to play much, much better next season to be worth the money. I seriously doubt that he will.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

[B][U]Coaching Staff[/U][/B]
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

[B][U]Resign[/U][/B]
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

[B][U]Cut[/U][/B]
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

[B][U]Sign in Free Agency[/U][/B]
-[I]Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks[/I]. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-[I]Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona[/I]. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-[I]Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints[/I]. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

[B][U]Draft[/U][/B]
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): [I]Ciron Black, OT, LSU.[/I] Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): [I]Max Unger, C, Oregon[/I] Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): [I]Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC [/I] Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): [I]Clay Mathews, OLB, USC [/I] Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): [I]Eric Moncur, DE, Miami [/I] Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) [I]Anthony Parker, G, Tenn [/I] Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) [I]Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC[/I] #3/#4CB
5(WAS):[I]Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU [/I] Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):[I]Darryl Richard, DT, GT[/I] Competes for roster spot.

[B][U]2009 Offensive Starters[/U][/B]
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

[B][U]2009 Defensive Starters[/U][/B]
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;520552]You don't really believe that Springs, Washington, and Griffin will be healthy enough to make a difference next year, do you? They'll each play four games healthy, four games hurt, and miss eight games. That is not acceptable.

Jansen/Heyer = Disaster at RT. You may fear too much change, but surely you would agree that this position must be improved, wouldn't you?

Taylor would need to play much, much better next season to be worth the money. I seriously doubt that he will.[/quote]

First on RT, I totally agree an improvement is needed. Jansen can't pass block and Heyer can't run block. Simple as that. That's one position where I'd absolutely make my move, and would probably use the first rounder on it.

On Washington I totally agree he's too injury prone and not effective enough. That's why I have the team cutting him in my cap thread.

On Springs, I don't agree. Springs was STILL the best CB on our team last year when healthy, and I don't see any chronic medical conditions that would lead me to believe he'll be unhealthy next year. Remember, just last year he played all 16 games for us. If you have arthritic knees or something that will nag you all season, that's one thing. But to have an acute calf injury to a guy who stays in shape with the best of them and to say he'll be hurt all year - there's no reason that's accurate.

On Griffin, they gu misses a few games each season, has for the past five years. I could go either way on him. On one hand it's not like he's missing tons of time, but on the other he does get hit with nagging things which he plays through, but reduces his effectiveness. But you can't argue with his ability to clog running lanes, he's still a big reason we ended up doing so well against the run. I really don't see how a Rocky Bernard is an upgrade, other than the health factor.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;520552]Taylor would need to play much, much better next season to be worth the money. I seriously doubt that he will.[/quote]

So restructure him.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;520541]I think Washington is done.

As for Griffin, I agree with what you said about the quality of his play; however, he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be on the field as much as we need him to be on it. Rocky Bernard had over twice as many tackles as CG and he had 4 sacks (CG had 1). That's a lot more production for the money.[/quote]

When it comes to DL, stats do not tell the entire story. The best and most disruptive DL frequently get double teamed, which opens the door for inferior line mates to swoop in and get the glory stats.
An example that comes to mind is Dave Butz. I can not tell you haw many times he would get double teamed and the DE or LB on his side would get the sacks.
When Griffen is healthy, he is the rock of our D-line. We do not have another DT of his abilities. Griffen would have to be replaced if we got rid of him.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Schneed10;520573]So restructure him.[/quote]

Why would JT want to restructure? There's nothing in it for him except less $.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder, I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;520510]If it is true that Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn must make the playoffs next season to keep their jobs, then what would you do to improve the team if you were in their shoes?

I’ve looked at Schneed10’s excellent Salary Cap Status – 2009 thread (I’m not going to summarize it here, so you may need to read it yourself to follow along) and, if I were Vinny or Jim, I’d make most of the moves that he mentioned but I would go further because I would need to feel that I had addressed the things that were most likely to cost me my job.

We can’t count on a new CBA, so we need to deal with putting next year’s team together with the salary cap the way it is right now. Schneed10 projects the Skins to be $0.6M under the cap after making the moves he foresees. Those moves include cutting Marcus Washington and salary reductions for Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs. That’s obviously not enough money to address our most critical needs in Free Agency and I don’t think that we can count on any drafted player to fill a critical need next season, so more cuts or trades will need to be made if V&J are to keep their jobs.

There aren’t that many places to look to free up cap space. As it turns out, some of the players who could be cut or traded are injury prone and injuries are a major factor in a team’s success or failure. If a player can’t stay on the field, then he is not going to help the team to get to the playoffs. So, I would not re-sign Shawn Springs and Cornelius Griffin, thus saving $6.7M against the cap. They may be our best CB and DT, respectively, but if they’re not on the field, it doesn’t matter.

With Phillip Daniels coming back, Jason Taylor will probably be used as a hybrid LB/DE or, worse, as a part-time DE. I’d pass on that a $4.0M price tag (assuming he accepts a salary reduction). By not re-signing him, we save another $4.5M.

With the projected emergence of the young WR’s and TE, we could also release James Thrash and Todd Yoder, thus saving another $1.6M.

Those moves would put us $13.4M under the current salary cap.

Now what do we do? First, we desperately need a RT to protect JC. I’d sign FA RT Stacy Andrews. Second, we need a solid DT. I’d sign FA DT Rocky Bernard who has much of the same skill set as Griffin, only he’s younger, healthier and, therefore, more productive. Thirdly, if there’s enough cap space remaining after those signings, I’d try to pick up a FA LB.

If there is a new CBA and, with it, an increase in the salary cap, then I’d go after FA LB Karlos Dansby to replace Marcus Washington.

We need a game breaker. [B]So, in the draft, I’d select Percy Harvin (I assume he’ll be in the draft)[/B] who could be our “Slash” as a PR/KR/RB/Slot Receiver. Yes, I know we need to draft linemen, and we will. But first, I need to keep my job. So, we’re bringing in proven, but still young, FA players to fill our greatest needs and drafting a home run hitter to help us score more points.[/quote]Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

dude we def shouldnt trade chris horton for a draft pick..............he was a steal hes dirt cheap and hes awesome hes a future player trading him would be dumb

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520560]If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I

[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)
[/quote]

Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?
[B][/B]

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520580]Why would JT want to restructure? There's nothing in it for him except less $.[/quote]

He's already admitted he's not worth $8M, so the Skins should either cut him or make play for less, or give him something like a 2 year deal worth $8M so he can at least have a reasonable cap figure and still earn his dough.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Schneed10;520571]First on RT, I totally agree an improvement is needed. Jansen can't pass block and Heyer can't run block. Simple as that. That's one position where I'd absolutely make my move, and would probably use the first rounder on it.

On Washington I totally agree he's too injury prone and not effective enough. That's why I have the team cutting him in my cap thread.

On Springs, I don't agree. Springs was STILL the best CB on our team last year when healthy, and I don't see any chronic medical conditions that would lead me to believe he'll be unhealthy next year. Remember, just last year he played all 16 games for us. If you have arthritic knees or something that will nag you all season, that's one thing. But to have an acute calf injury to a guy who stays in shape with the best of them and to say he'll be hurt all year - there's no reason that's accurate.

On Griffin, they gu misses a few games each season, has for the past five years. I could go either way on him. On one hand it's not like he's missing tons of time, but on the other he does get hit with nagging things which he plays through, but reduces his effectiveness. But you can't argue with his ability to clog running lanes, he's still a big reason we ended up doing so well against the run. I really don't see how a Rocky Bernard is an upgrade, other than the health factor.[/quote]
Was not Heyer not the starting RT when in the begining of the season when we could run the ball and winning games?

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=firstdown;520592]Was not Heyer not the starting RT when in the begining of the season when we could run the ball and winning games?[/quote]

No, Jansen was starting when the running game took off and Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=davelavarra;520581][B]All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder,[/B] I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.[/quote]

If you stopped listening to YOUR boss, what are the chances that would help you KEEP your job?

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

not draft sh*theads.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=davelavarra;520587]Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?
[B][/B][/quote]

Horton plays SS. Landry should be playing SS. The only reason he's not is he had to move to FS to accomodate Doughty (last year) and Horton (this year). We deliberately brought in Schwiegert (or whatever the heck his name was) last year in hopes that Landry could move back to SS. However, it didnt work out and when the season began, Doughty and Landry were our best two safeties on our roster so Landry "stayed" at SS.

Then Doughty got hurt and Kareem Moore was not ready so Horton came in. The Plan all along was to move Springs to Safety at some point. Unfortunately, he was injured alot this year and when he was healthy, Smoot was playing horrible so Rogers and Springs were our best two corners... Springs wasnt able to move to safety until we acquired Hall and we had more corner depth. When we did, who was the first man off the field? Chris Horton. Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry and if we keep him as our starting SS, Landry is going to be wasted at FS.

Kareem Moore (a natural FS) showed much more promise in training camp last year than Horton, but was held back by injuries early on in the year. He made a few "rookie mistakes" this year, but he really started to come in to his own as the season neared its end.

Is Horton a really good player? YES. Is he one of the best draft picks this team has made in recent memory? YES. Those are all arguments for keeping him... but they are also arguments for trading him as his value high. He's a young, but somewhat proven player, and many teams would likely rather trade a 2nd round pick for a proven 1 year vet with tons of upside than take a chance on an unproven guy with that 2nd round pick in the draft.

In the end, what it comes down to (for me) is this - Is our team better with:

A: Rogers and Hall at CB with Horton at SS and Landry at FS

OR

B: Rogers and Hall at CB with Landry at SS (where he will be able to make more plays) and Springs (who is our best DB when healthy) at FS, while grooming Moore as his replacement... AND a 2nd round pick to upgrade our defensive line/LB corps?

In both cases, we've got a pretty darn good defensive backfield. But In my opinion, Option B is the way to go:
1. It puts our best 4 DBs on the field at the same time
2. It puts Landry, a former top 10 pick, in the position to do what we drafted him to do.
3. It allows us to trade a player at a position of depth in exchange for a draft pick that [B]SHOULD[/B] yield a starter for this team in 2009. (I say [I]should[/I] because it all depends on Vinny making a wise selection with the 2nd rounder. Its understandable that none of the 2nd rounders contributed this year. WRs usually dont produce much their rookie seasons. Next year, we should be addressing our lines and LB positon with our 1st day picks. Players at those positions make an easier transition to the pro-level, so hopefully a 2nd round pick would be starting for us next year.)

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;520582]Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.[/quote]

I can't blame you for calling me out on Harvin. I was reaching to try to find some way to get more explosiveness into our offense.

In my (weak) defense, I was thinking of Harvin as a threat out of the backfield as well as a KR/PR and a WR. All three roles in a single game. You know, the speed kills thing?

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520560]If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

[B][U]Coaching Staff[/U][/B]
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

[B][U]Resign[/U][/B]
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

[B][U]Cut[/U][/B]
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

[B][U]Sign in Free Agency[/U][/B]
-[I]Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks[/I]. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-[I]Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona[/I]. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-[I]Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints[/I]. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

[B][U]Draft[/U][/B]
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): [I]Ciron Black, OT, LSU.[/I] Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): [I]Max Unger, C, Oregon[/I] Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): [I]Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC [/I] Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): [I]Clay Mathews, OLB, USC [/I] Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): [I]Eric Moncur, DE, Miami [/I] Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) [I]Anthony Parker, G, Tenn [/I] Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) [I]Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC[/I] #3/#4CB
5(WAS):[I]Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU [/I] Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):[I]Darryl Richard, DT, GT[/I] Competes for roster spot.

[B][U]2009 Offensive Starters[/U][/B]
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

[B][U]2009 Defensive Starters[/U][/B]
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore[/quote]

I think this makes sense.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=irish;520580]Why would JT want to restructure? There's nothing in it for him except less $.[/quote]

Nice understanding of the salary cap you got there, Irish. Three year deal with $8 million up front to sign would get his cap number down to about $3 mill a year.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520560]If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

[B][U]Coaching Staff[/U][/B]
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

[B][U]Resign[/U][/B]
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

[B][U]Cut[/U][/B]
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

[B][U]Sign in Free Agency[/U][/B]
-[I]Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks[/I]. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-[I]Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona[/I]. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-[I]Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints[/I]. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

[B][U]Draft[/U][/B]
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): [I]Ciron Black, OT, LSU.[/I] Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): [I]Max Unger, C, Oregon[/I] Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): [I]Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC [/I]Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): [I]Clay Mathews, OLB, USC [/I]Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): [I]Eric Moncur, DE, Miami [/I]Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) [I]Anthony Parker, G, Tenn [/I]Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) [I]Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC[/I] #3/#4CB
5(WAS):[I]Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU [/I]Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):[I]Darryl Richard, DT, GT[/I] Competes for roster spot.

[B][U]2009 Offensive Starters[/U][/B]
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

[B][U]2009 Defensive Starters[/U][/B]
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore[/quote]

How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;520617]How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???[/quote]

LOL post of the day

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520602]Horton plays SS. Landry should be playing SS. The only reason he's not is he had to move to FS to accomodate Doughty (last year) and Horton (this year). We deliberately brought in Schwiegert (or whatever the heck his name was) last year in hopes that Landry could move back to SS. However, it didnt work out and when the season began, Doughty and Landry were our best two safeties on our roster so Landry "stayed" at SS.

Then Doughty got hurt and Kareem Moore was not ready so Horton came in. The Plan all along was to move Springs to Safety at some point. Unfortunately, he was injured alot this year and when he was healthy, Smoot was playing horrible so Rogers and Springs were our best two corners... Springs wasnt able to move to safety until we acquired Hall and we had more corner depth. When we did, who was the first man off the field? Chris Horton. Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry and if we keep him as our starting SS, Landry is going to be wasted at FS.

Kareem Moore (a natural FS) showed much more promise in training camp last year than Horton, but was held back by injuries early on in the year. He made a few "rookie mistakes" this year, but he really started to come in to his own as the season neared its end.

Is Horton a really good player? YES. Is he one of the best draft picks this team has made in recent memory? YES. Those are all arguments for keeping him... but they are also arguments for trading him as his value high. He's a young, but somewhat proven player, and many teams would likely rather trade a 2nd round pick for a proven 1 year vet with tons of upside than take a chance on an unproven guy with that 2nd round pick in the draft.

In the end, what it comes down to (for me) is this - Is our team better with:

A: Rogers and Hall at CB with Horton at SS and Landry at FS

OR

B: Rogers and Hall at CB with Landry at SS (where he will be able to make more plays) and Springs (who is our best DB when healthy) at FS, while grooming Moore as his replacement... AND a 2nd round pick to upgrade our defensive line/LB corps?

In both cases, we've got a pretty darn good defensive backfield. But In my opinion, Option B is the way to go:
1. It puts our best 4 DBs on the field at the same time
2. It puts Landry, a former top 10 pick, in the position to do what we drafted him to do.
3. It allows us to trade a player at a position of depth in exchange for a draft pick that [B]SHOULD[/B] yield a starter for this team in 2009. (I say [I]should[/I] because it all depends on Vinny making a wise selection with the 2nd rounder. Its understandable that none of the 2nd rounders contributed this year. WRs usually dont produce much their rookie seasons. Next year, we should be addressing our lines and LB positon with our 1st day picks. Players at those positions make an easier transition to the pro-level, so hopefully a 2nd round pick would be starting for us next year.)[/quote]

Simply a perfect analysis. Well done.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;520560]
[B][U]Trade[/U][/B]
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

[/quote]
There are just so many flaws here that it blows the rest of your entire plan. For starters, there are only 2 GM in or around football who would consider giving up a 4th rounder for Golston and a 2nd rounder for Horton. Unfortunately Matt Millen was already fired and we already employ Vinny Cerrato. Teams don't trade draft picks for players drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds who aren't game changers. Making a few tackles because you're in position and getting a couple turnovers in the first half of the season doesn't make your value explode to a 2nd round pick.

I was as pleasantly surprised by Horton as well, but let's be realistic. The kid isn't even in the top 15 safeties in the game, how is he all of the sudden worth a 2nd round pick. Golston isn't even a consistent starter, he's just a guy-nothing special. If anything Montgomery has more value because his upside is much higher.


To the topic of the thread, unfortunately all Vinny needs to do is keep making his afternoon racquetball appointments with Danny. What we wish he would have to do is be a leader and properly assess this team and make a plan. This is a flawed roster and is closer to needing a rebuild than a patch here and there for a SB run. We are not overly explosive, physical or intelligent. We don't stand out in any phase of the game. A true VP of Football Operations would make the hard decisions about what needs to be done, how long it's going to take, who you are going to build around and implement his plan. God willing, we one day will have that person.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;520617]How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???[/quote]
Hilarious :lol:

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

You gotta keep Horton, he was an amazing find and isn't afraid to hit and has decent hands.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

I would draft some lineman.

Re: If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?
 

[quote=Schneed10;520615]Nice understanding of the salary cap you got there, Irish. Three year deal with $8 million up front to sign would get his cap number down to about $3 mill a year.[/quote]

My point is what does JT care about what his cap number is. He doesnt, the Skins FO and cap geeks like you do. All JT likely cares about is his paycheck and I just dont see him accepting any kind of reduction. You are assuming he will restructure out of the goodness of his heart so he can keep playing. Did you ever consider he might say thanks but no thanks and head off to Hollywood and an acting career.