obama is taking my $
 

Coming just one day after the 36th anniversary of the tragic Roe v. Wade decision, this presidential directive forces taxpayers to subsidize abortions overseas _ something no American should be required by government to do," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio.


it didn't take him long. i am against abortion, now i will be forced to directly fund it.

thanks obama.......you suck.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

I really don't have a strong opinion on abortion but I do have strong feelings about having to pay for them. This is nothing new. If its a Rep pres then they stop the spending on this and if its a Dem they suport the program with our tax money.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

Simple fact of an imperfect world is population explosion in very poor, unstable and often war-torn areas of the world that have links to terrorism i.e. parts of Africa and the Middle-East. For decades we ought to have been doing much more to help these societies drastically reduce their birth rates but ideological radicals we elected (and some unelected) kept us from doing anything. Now the circumstances are dire. Bottom line we need to be as proactive as possible to quell population explosion in the dark corners of the world.

... people will remember how a surprising number of social scientists, experts on terrorism and military brass have talked about how Bush policies have/will encourage terrorism more than those of any previous president. It's not just about preemptively attacking countries that may or may not have any involvement in 9/11 and terrorism. It's not just about setting up massive military installations in their backyards (anyone here be too happy about the Chinese government setting up a military base in NY, no i didn't think so). Bush's policy (shared by all the radical right) of allowing/encouraging population explosion in the dark corners of the world basically guarantees terrorism increases over time - it's an incontrovertible fact but tragically too many people aren't big enough to acknowledge it.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=wolfeskins;522732]Coming just one day after the 36th anniversary of the tragic Roe v. Wade decision, this presidential directive forces taxpayers to subsidize abortions overseas _ something no American should be required by government to do," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio.


it didn't take him long. i am against abortion, now i will be forced to directly fund it.

thanks obama.......you suck.[/quote]

So spending millions of dollars (and hundreds of lives) on a war we didn't have to fight doesn't bother you at all. Especially an expense that we probably didn't need and may have aided to the economic nightmare we're in?

I'm a Dem, and I oppose this subsidy (and I believe it has been overturned), but I try to be smart and look at the big picture. The money spent on this is nowhere near as much as Iraq has cost this country.

Let me ask you this, are you also against torture? Because if you are, guess what, you funded it directly also.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

i was and still am for the war and i do think torture is necessary in some cases. lets not forget those guys in masks who cut off the head of that boy and broadcast it on tv and the web. if torture helps rid the world of people like that then i'm all for it.

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Correct me if I am wrong here, but I do not believe that anymore money is given to them, the clause is that the money we were giving them could not be spent on this, now we take away that clause. Honestly when you give someone money and tell hem not to spend it on this, but if they were going to buy it anyway, have you really not supported their decision already?

Re: obama is taking my $
 

Here is your hope and change folks! Get ready to open your wallets!

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=The Goat;522772]Simple fact of an imperfect world is population explosion in very poor, unstable and often war-torn areas of the world that have links to terrorism i.e. parts of Africa and the Middle-East. For decades we ought to have been doing much more to help these societies drastically reduce their birth rates but ideological radicals we elected (and some unelected) kept us from doing anything. Now the circumstances are dire. Bottom line we need to be as proactive as possible to quell population explosion in the dark corners of the world.

... people will remember how a surprising number of social scientists, experts on terrorism and military brass have talked about how Bush policies have/will encourage terrorism more than those of any previous president. It's not just about preemptively attacking countries that may or may not have any involvement in 9/11 and terrorism. It's not just about setting up massive military installations in their backyards (anyone here be too happy about the Chinese government setting up a military base in NY, no i didn't think so). Bush's policy (shared by all the radical right) of allowing/encouraging population explosion in the dark corners of the world basically guarantees terrorism increases over time - it's an incontrovertible fact but tragically too many people aren't big enough to acknowledge it.[/quote]The argument against you is "Abortion is killing". So essentially as a measure of the 'War on Terror' you support killing their children before they get to grow and be terrorists. I am not making that argument but it is he argument that pro-lifers will make to the day they die.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=FRPLG;522830]The argument against you is "Abortion is killing". So essentially as a measure of the 'War on Terror' you support killing their children before they get to grow and be terrorists. I am not making that argument but it is he argument that pro-lifers will make to the day they die.[/quote]

Yeah, I'd say The Goat's argument there is horrifically alarming on a moral level. Basically, do what we can to prevent life from developing in these areas because we should operate under the assumption that the children born there will grow up to become terrorists. WTF?

How about we operate under the assumption that all human beings have the free will to choose their path. If they choose to take up arms against the United States, then fine, we'll kill them then. But for those that don't, why should they be robbed of the opportunity to have their children grow up as decent human beings. Not everyone aspires to become a terrorist.

It's one thing to say Bush's policies fan the flames of radical idealism, leading to a surge in terrorism. It's an entirely different thing to say we just should do what we can to limit their population growth to stop it.

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[quote=Schneed10;522833]Yeah, I'd say The Goat's argument there is horrifically alarming on a moral level. Basically, do what we can to prevent life from developing in these areas because we should operate under the assumption that the children born there will grow up to become terrorists. WTF?

How about we operate under the assumption that all human beings have the free will to choose their path. If they choose to take up arms against the United States, then fine, we'll kill them then. But for those that don't, why should they be robbed of the opportunity to have their children grow up as decent human beings. Not everyone aspires to become a terrorist.

It's one thing to say Bush's policies fan the flames of radical idealism, leading to a surge in terrorism. It's an entirely different thing to say we just should do what we can to limit their population growth to stop it.[/quote]
I agree.

I don't often get into abortion arguments but it is backwarss logic like we see in this thread that bugs me. It'd be ok for us to fund to the hilt abortions in the middle east somehow but it wouldn't be ok to simply drop 100 nukes and kill every single last one of them (ignoring obvious practical reasons against such a attack). Huh?

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=drew54;522808]Correct me if I am wrong here, but I do not believe that anymore money is given to them, the clause is that the money we were giving them could not be spent on this, now we take away that clause. Honestly when you give someone money and tell hem not to spend it on this, but if they were going to buy it anyway, have you really not supported their decision already?[/quote]


You're pretty much correct. President Obama isn't starting some "new program" here. This clause was instituted by Ronald Reagan in 1984. That is, NGO's already receiving federal money from the U.S. had to meet certain requirements and were prohibited from using said funding to promote healthcare rights for women. And nearly every Administration thereafter has either overturned the rule or re-instated it, depending on the party.

Furthermore, this isn't and shouldn't be seen as a mechanism to mitigate terrorism or somehow root it out before little terrorists sprout and grow up to inflict harm on Americans. On the contrary, this is --and has always been-- about women's reproductive rights, getting adequate healthcare to women who are pregant and, yes, contraception. Federal funding that has flowed to these countries would be the benefactors, not Bin Ladin's third cousin getting knocked up in the mountains of Afghanistan.

Bottom line, these agencies are simply getting a small piece of the pie that was being sent to their respective countries. There is no new money, no new rules here. And I suspect, when the next Republican administration takes office -- whenever that is -- they'll once again re-instate the clause as originally intended under Reagan.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

FRPLG and Schneed10, from you're comments I have to assume you both are under the mistaken impression US funding to help reduce population explosion somehow involves forced contraceptive, abortion, etc. From all my research, conversations w/ those who spend time working on these issues in the Peace Corp or other organizations, and a good deal of time spent in the published works of J. Sachs and other economists concentrating on these types of issues, I've never heard of forced contraceptive or abortion wrt US funded programs. To be sure, there are horrific atrocities occurring in these dark corners of the world and mostly related to extreme population explosion over the last several decades. The preponderance of research and indeed the historical record shows women prefer to have the option/availability of these services and do in fact choose to have fewer children in the long run. Again, they're choice, not something forced on them.

... sitting in a country that basically has no overcrowding issues, where resources are not strained to their limits and where we have all the freedoms in the world... and to put our plump hands over our ears and ignore what is going on in the utterly impoverished regions of Africa and the Middle-East... horrifically alarming on a moral level. Or rather it's just deeply, deeply ignorant.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

Fear not yee tax-paying-anti-terrorist-pro-lifers, terrorist breeding nations have the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_Laws"]most strict abortion laws known to man[/URL]. Unfortunately this means the supply of future terrorists will not be limited without us at least provding conctranception meds.


God Bless America!

Re: obama is taking my $
 

nice touch, the God Bless America ending:)

Re: obama is taking my $
 

Welcome to America where one side or the other will always bitch that the government is spending their money on things they don't want. You don't like the spending priorities? Hmmm, I think we have these things called elections where you can have an effect on those priorities are chosen. You don't like the democratic republican electoral system in effect in America? You need not stay. There are over 250 independent nations for you to choose from.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

joe, tell us how you really feel:)

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=The Goat;522842]FRPLG and Schneed10, from you're comments I have to assume you both are under the mistaken impression US funding to help reduce population explosion somehow involves forced contraceptive, abortion, etc. From all my research, conversations w/ those who spend time working on these issues in the Peace Corp or other organizations, and a good deal of time spent in the published works of J. Sachs and other economists concentrating on these types of issues, I've never heard of forced contraceptive or abortion wrt US funded programs. To be sure, there are horrific atrocities occurring in these dark corners of the world and mostly related to extreme population explosion over the last several decades. The preponderance of research and indeed the historical record shows women prefer to have the option/availability of these services and do in fact choose to have fewer children in the long run. Again, they're choice, not something forced on them.

... sitting in a country that basically has no overcrowding issues, where resources are not strained to their limits and where we have all the freedoms in the world... and to put our plump hands over our ears and ignore what is going on in the utterly impoverished regions of Africa and the Middle-East... horrifically alarming on a moral level. Or rather it's just deeply, deeply ignorant.[/quote]No my comments were based solely on yours which Schneed pointed out inferred that one of Bush's failings as a President was a lack of support in reducing populations in terrorists base countries by whatever means. Since the basis of this thread it seems pretty reasonable to me that you were supporting paying for abortions. Are you saying you believe that the foundation of terrorism is rooted in overcrowding?

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=dmek25;522851]nice touch, the God Bless America ending:)[/quote]

I was watching George Carlin last night. Part of his banter was "God Bless America"... most all politicians use this in closing.

He said. "What is this? A demand? A statement?..." and went on to say, "...if God loves all of us equally, why [I]should[/I] he "bless America" more so than any other country, and that, in the end, it's an empty statement...


/end derail

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=FRPLG;522882]No my comments were based solely on yours which Schneed pointed out inferred that one of Bush's failings as a President was a lack of support in reducing populations in terrorists base countries by whatever means. Since the basis of this thread it seems pretty reasonable to me that you were supporting paying for abortions. Are you saying you believe that the foundation of terrorism is rooted in overcrowding?[/quote]

I'm not comfortable w/ funding abortions because ultimately i'm pro-life. What i recognize is decades of total negligence (by the US and world community) and inherent cultural norms in these troubled regions have created a population explosion almost impossible for us to imagine. Just like I cannot be comfortable w/ China's formula for pop control, I do recognize the Chinese gov knew it had to do something.

... Roots of terrorism aren't that simple is my guess. I did read a study once claiming if you look at where terrorists come from there's an extremely high correlation w/ massive US military installations. It's not a strong thesis because obviously we've got huge installations in S. Korea and elsewhere but don't see them recruit terrorists. Obviously there's more to the equation (although I was surprised to find out how much Koreans and Japanese dislike our military presence in their countries). The bigger picture w/ overcrowding is it sets the stage for strife, violent conflict, etc. Sachs does a good job of relating the professional journal research (boring) to real world, and basically what we find is that the common denominator in regions across the world for ongoing violent conflict is a very high TFR (total fertility rate) - not religious differences, political disagreements, etc.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=4mrusmc;522910]I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.[/quote]

I stay far away from political discussion on this website, but that's hilarious!

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;522826]Here is your hope and change folks! Get ready to open your wallets![/quote]

obama is the welfare president it goes in cycles thats why we all need to register as a independant to give us that 3rd alternative.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=4mrusmc;522910]I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.[/quote]

that is funny but also sad at the same time

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522776]So spending millions of dollars (and hundreds of lives) on a war we didn't have to fight doesn't bother you at all. Especially an expense that we probably didn't need and may have aided to the economic nightmare we're in?

I'm a Dem, and I oppose this subsidy (and I believe it has been overturned), but I try to be smart and look at the big picture. The money spent on this is nowhere near as much as Iraq has cost this country.

Let me ask you this, are you also against torture? Because if you are, guess what, you funded it directly also.[/quote]
So now your going to use Iraq as an excuss about other bad spending. Wow, Obama has a mighty long leash if thats the case. Bad spending is bad spending.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=4mrusmc;522910]I think that it is sad and pathatic that the only way that we can get the far left to kill terrorists, is to dress them up as a fetus.[/quote]

Unfortunately we have to rationalize things, we are incapable of going with our gut. The illness we suffer from is terrible, tragic really.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=saden1;522845]Fear not yee tax-paying-anti-terrorist-pro-lifers, terrorist breeding nations have the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_Laws"]most strict abortion laws known to man[/URL]. Unfortunately this means the supply of future terrorists will not be limited without us at least provding conctranception meds.


God Bless America![/quote]
While reading these post I was think that abortion laws in the middle east must be very strict and I bet using conctracetion meds might even be illegal. To lazy to look that up.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

spend the money now. we wouldnt want to leave any behind for the kids.trillions in debt and still spending like a drunken soccer mom

Re: obama is taking my $
 

What bothers me most about this is that these are what Obama felt he must do with in the first days to appease his political wing:
Close Gitmo
Allow funding of international groups that support abortions (petty note-couldn't we get american funds straightened out before we worry whether we are giving out enough to the international community?)
Halt all of Bush's last minute regulations
Freeze pay of White House staff making over 100K (except his as he is not allowed - I wonder if he offered to keep getting a Senator's salary? [i know petty again])

Again I want Obama to succeed, but I really don't see how this holds to his quote to put petty political stuff aside for the good of the country.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=saden1;522935]Unfortunately we have to rationalize things, we are incapable of going with our gut. The illness we suffer from is terrible, tragic really.[/quote]
Like Michael Savage says, "liberalism is a mental disorder." But, you are are still a good Redskins fan.:)

Re: obama is taking my $
 

I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, [B]Hyde-Weldon [/B]clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=12thMan;522979]I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, [B]Hyde-Weldon [/B]clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.[/quote]

Thank you for this. The author of this thread, most likely in ignorance, wrote a title suggesting this issue to be something that is not. The following discussion has been predictably inane. So thanks for setting the record straight.

Anyway 12th, I have to tell you, I really think this age of political divisiveness is coming to an end. You know the playbook, the one where you find divisive, largely symbolic issues to exploit – which have little to do with people’s actual lives – and use them to get the folks all fired up. It's that FOX News thing where you find some radical 60's professor or woman in a coma and have the spewing pundits wax vitriolic until everyone is worked up into a tizzy and foaming at the mouth.

When the economy was fundamentally sound and the nation was at peace perhaps we had the luxury of engaging in such nonsense. But at this stage in the game, I just don’t think it’s going to work anymore. People have too much on their mind (my conservative friends at The Warpath not withstanding of course, some of whom seem genuinely uninterested in letting an opportunity for outrage go to waste).

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=12thMan;522979]I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, [B]Hyde-Weldon [/B]clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.[/quote]

Good points sir. The whole topic of foreign aid is actually pretty interesting. When polled Americans typically say we already give enough or too much in the form of aid... turns out it's because most believe we already set aside something like 10% or more of the fed budget for aid. When pollsters ask the question differently, informing folks first that less than 1% is budgeted, most answer we should give more than we do.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=The Goat;522990]Good points sir. The whole topic of foreign aid is actually pretty interesting. When polled Americans typically say we already give enough or too much in the form of aid... turns out it's because most believe we already set aside something like 10% or more of the fed budget for aid. When pollsters ask the question differently, informing folks first that less than 1% is budgeted, most answer we should give more than we do.[/quote]

Yeah, that's the thing. We don't spend that much, in fact very little, in relative terms, on foreign aid. It's just that given the current economic crisis and the mood of the country, the notion that we're sending money anywhere (other than our own back yard) just rubs people the wrong way, and understandably so.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=12thMan;522993]Yeah, that's the thing. We don't spend that much, in fact very little, in relative terms, on foreign aid. It's just that given the current economic crisis and the mood of the country, the notion that we're sending money anywhere (other than our own back yard) just rubs people the wrong way, [B]and understandably so[/B].[/quote]

Totally, and besides we give a ton in the form of private donations. In fact i think when the private side is added in we're pretty similar (per capita wise) to the most "generous" countries like Sweden, Norway etc.

... my guess is the private side does a better job most of the time too. I think Worldvision is fantastic.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=4mrusmc;522973]Like Michael Savage says, "liberalism is a mental disorder." But, you are are still a good Redskins fan.:)[/quote]


And his take on autism? I prefer Coulter myself, her [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Ann-H.-Coulter/e/B001H6GJTW"]encyclopedia on liberalism[/URL] really helps me understand and deal with my handicap.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=djnemo65;522985]Thank you for this. The author of this thread, most likely in ignorance, wrote a title suggesting this issue to be something that is not. The following discussion has been predictably inane. So thanks for setting the record straight.

Anyway 12th, I have to tell you, I really think this age of political divisiveness is coming to an end. You know the playbook, the one where you find divisive, largely symbolic issues to exploit – which have little to do with people’s actual lives – and use them to get the folks all fired up. It's that FOX News thing where you find some radical 60's professor or woman in a coma and have the spewing pundits wax vitriolic until everyone is worked up into a tizzy and foaming at the mouth.

When the economy was fundamentally sound and the nation was at peace perhaps we had the luxury of engaging in such nonsense. But at this stage in the game, I just don’t think it’s going to work anymore. People have too much on their mind (my conservative friends at The Warpath not withstanding of course, some of whom seem genuinely uninterested in letting an opportunity for outrage go to waste).[/quote]

Faux outrage is here even with the current [URL="http://www.republicanleader.house.gov/jobs/"]economic downturn[/URL] and will always be here. Man is an animal, leading people to abandon objective moral standards involuntarily. This tragic flaw of man.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=12thMan;522979]I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that. .[/quote]



Coming just one day after the 36th anniversary of the tragic Roe v. Wade decision, this presidential directive [U][B]forces taxpayers to subsidize abortions[/B][/U] overseas _ something no American should be required by government to do," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio

this quote came directly from the article.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=wolfeskins;523003]Coming just one day after the 36th anniversary of the tragic Roe v. Wade decision, this presidential directive [U][B]forces taxpayers to subsidize abortions[/B][/U] overseas _ something no American should be required by government to do," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio

this quote came directly from the article.[/quote]

Good one.

[yt]xUQhNZ9Mf8U[/yt]

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=12thMan;522979]I think we're completely misunderstanding what's happening here. President Obama isn't funding abortion at all. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.

This is foreign aid money that has gone to these same handful of countries for umpteen years and it represents approximately .01% of federal spending.

This has nothing to do with funding abortion, but everything to do with making adequate healthcare available for woman in foreign countries. In fact, there's a very specific clause, [B]Hyde-Weldon [/B]clause, that prohibits federal funding to go directly toward abortion procedures. It's the law.

Sorry, but this isn't some liberal-socialist agenda like some on the right would have people believe. The President is simply repealing a clause that says international agencies or NGOs that are the recipeints of US funding can now offer healthcare services and counseling to women abroad.[/quote]

Sorry but you have tho wrong clause because the Hyde/Weldon Clause was just past in 2005 and so how could Obama apeal the same clause as Clinton and Carter if it was just passed. Pleas try again.

Re: obama is taking my $
 

[quote=djnemo65;522985]Thank you for this. The author of this thread, most likely in ignorance, wrote a title suggesting this issue to be something that is not. The following discussion has been predictably inane. So thanks for setting the record straight.

Anyway 12th, I have to tell you, I really think this age of political divisiveness is coming to an end. You know the playbook, the one where you find divisive, largely symbolic issues to exploit – which have little to do with people’s actual lives – and use them to get the folks all fired up. It's that FOX News thing where you find some radical 60's professor or woman in a coma and have the spewing pundits wax vitriolic until everyone is worked up into a tizzy and foaming at the mouth.

When the economy was fundamentally sound and the nation was at peace perhaps we had the luxury of engaging in such nonsense. But at this stage in the game, I just don’t think it’s going to work anymore. People have too much on their mind (my conservative friends at The Warpath not withstanding of course, some of whom seem genuinely uninterested in letting an opportunity for outrage go to waste).[/quote]
Well I guess that CNN is doing the same thing as you say Fox News and all the right wingers with the title of their article and this also shows that 12th has the wrong clause. So here is CNN Title and thred.
[B]Obama reverses abortion-funding policy[/B]

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/]Obama reverses abortion-funding policy - CNN.com[/url]