High Schoolers to enter draft
 

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1751956[/url]

I'm almost positive none of them will get drafted.

But this is just a peek at what's in store. I'm scared about what's going to happen in five years.

In other news, Ramseyfan has declared himself eligible for the upcoming NFL draft. Though Ramseyfan lacks an agent, he stands tall at 5'10", weighs in at a beefy 180 lbs., runs the 40 in under 10.9 seconds, plays at the All-Madden Level in Madden 2004, passed for over 4,000 yards and rushed for over 2,000 yards in Madden 2004, was voted an all-star in his pee-wee football league while playing safety, and can beat the crap out of kids half his size.

Whether the Chargers or the Cardinals will select Ramseyfan in the first round of the draft is unclear. Ramseyfan faces stiff competition from none other than 5 year-old Chris "Crayola in the Crevice " Mannix that many league analysts feel will be the best quarterback in the league in two decades or so.

Mannix is supposedly so devoted to training, that his parents have not taught him to read, speak English, or use a toilet in the hopes that the extra training time he gets will bring them a fifteen million dollar signing bonus.

For Ramseyfan, Mannix, and the legion of football fans across the country, April will be an exciting month for football fans.

Hey Ramseyfan!!
 

hey, Ramseyfan, that was really funny!!!!!!!!!! i enjoyed your post and i wish you the best of luck this april. i hope everything turns out for you.

that was pretty funny...

so i take it that you don't think this is a bad first sign of things to come ramseyfan?

The precedent that Clarett has established in the NFL is going to do nothing but hurt the NFL and the teenagers that feel that they are ready to play with the big boys. I wish that all of the owners would come to an agreement and blacklist this cancer in the draft. Nowadays, it is very difficult for something like that to happen though because every Owner is thirsting for blood. God knows Al Davis would ruin a blacklist plan like this because of the many battles that he has had with the league.

I just really can't stand this guy Clarett. He has yet to prove much to me even in the college ranks.... let alone in the NFL. He showed the propensity to get injured and not play through minor injuries in major games. His lack of heart and dedication is laughable. It would be a lot easier to stomach if this guy really was an outstanding talent and showed the dedication that it takes to be successful in the league.... but all he has done is gain 20lbs and read the Maurice Clarett headlines. What a joke this guy is..... and even if he somehow slips to the second day of the draft...I don't want anything to do with him.

the owners may have an unspoken agreement with each other about not drafting kids out of hs, but they will probably have to deal with one or 2 of the kids getting lawyers and claiming collusion or however you spell that(my spelling sucks sometimes.) and because they aren't built enough physically, I see a grewing trend in steriod and supplement use in hs players to help them make it to the nfl until they are fully grown which would of course be a terrible blow to not only sports but these young guys' futures.

[quote]
The precedent that Clarett has established in the NFL is going to do nothing but hurt the NFL and the teenagers that feel that they are ready to play with the big boys. I wish that all of the owners would come to an agreement and blacklist this cancer in the draft. Nowadays, it is very difficult for something like that to happen though because every Owner is thirsting for blood. God knows Al Davis would ruin a blacklist plan like this because of the many battles that he has had with the league.

I just really can't stand this guy Clarett. He has yet to prove much to me even in the college ranks.... let alone in the NFL. He showed the propensity to get injured and not play through minor injuries in major games. His lack of heart and dedication is laughable. It would be a lot easier to stomach if this guy really was an outstanding talent and showed the dedication that it takes to be successful in the league.... but all he has done is gain 20lbs and read the Maurice Clarett headlines. What a joke this guy is..... and even if he somehow slips to the second day of the draft...I don't want anything to do with him.
[/quote]

First of all, teams aren't forced to draft anyone they don't want to. These high school kids will not get drafted. Being an allstar in High School doesn't mean NFL teams buy it. I'm all for the Clarett ruling and I'm fine with people not having to stay in college, I also know that teams aren't going to take the huge risk of someone out of high school. However, if someone goes to college has an amazing allstar year, who are WE to keep them out of the pros. If they don't have a good team next year, their numbers could drop, along with their salary. They're trying to make a living.

I'm guessing you've never seen Clarett play or talk. This kid has more heart than most of the guys in the NFL. He knows he has a target on his chest and he has a chip on his shoulder. If he gets on a decent team that gives him a chance to start, he can be an all-pro runner. I was hoping the skins would grab him in round two, but with Portis here we have other needs to fill.

I think Clarett is an amazing talent and deserves to be in the NFL. Moreso than Mike WIlliams. At least Clarett said "Hey, I wanna play, Im gonna do something about it." Mike WIlliams just sat at USC wanting to go pro but too scared to fight the system.

Also, mind telling me what he has left to prove? Besides carrying his team to a national championship nearly singlehandedly and rushing all over everyone? Ohio State lost basicly only Clarett last year and they weren't near as good. They lost a few players, but Clarett was the impact player. I'm psyched to see him play in the pros!

I don't like it simply because it makes the NFL more like the other less classy sports. The NFL is tough on drugs (unlike basketball and baseball). The NFL encourages kids to stay in school (unlike basketball, hockey, and baseball).

some of the kids who declared are'nt even all american high school players.i wonder why they think they can play in the pros if they are'nt really that good in high school?
maybe some of them do'nt have the option of going to college who knows?just like matty said,the nfl has always had more class than the other major sports.i hate to see them not find a winning way for all in dealing with this crisis,and that's what it is.

[QUOTE=Daseal]However, if someone goes to college has an amazing allstar year, who are WE to keep them out of the pros [?][/QUOTE]

Define "we". "WE" the fans? The fans don't have a say one way or the other. The NFL decides who gets to play in their league and who doesn't. Clarett should no more be able to demand to play in the NFL than you or I.

[QUOTE=Daseal]If they don't have a good team next year, their numbers could drop, along with their salary. They're trying to make a living.[/QUOTE]

So what? I'm trying to make a living too! That doesn't entitle me to seek a court order demanding that I get into a doctor's office to start practicing medicine because, "I'm trying to make a living!"

[QUOTE=Daseal]I think Clarett is an amazing talent and deserves to be in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

Fine. He may be an amazing talent. But I disagree with your premise that he "carried his team to a national championship". Football is the ultimate team sport. No one player singlehandedly leads any team anywhere without the cooperation, talent, and motivation of other members of the team.

The NFL is a private organization, Daseal. No one should be able to sue a private organization to demand entry. Let me ask you this: Can I seek an injunction to enter your home, despite your contention that your house is private property and you have the right to let in whomever you want? According to your logic, I can. I have every right to walk into your house by the order of a court simply based upon my opinion that I "deserve" to be there. And not you, or anyone else can stop me.

How do you like that? If we follow your philosophy to its logical conclusion, nobody has any right to enjoy their property or their associations with other people exclusively. Anyone can seek a court order and barge in on your activities, your parties, your family reunions, dinner with friends, your private poker games -- [B]at any time, for any reason, based only on the fact that they think they "deserve" to be there.[/B]

The Clarett ruling is a travesty. And it's a ruling by a judge who admitted that she had never seen more than one half of a football game in her entire life. It will destroy college football, and dilute the talent and playing level of the NFL the same way it has the NBA. More importantly, it is a further attack on privacy rights in this country. And while you think that's just fine and dandy, YOUR DAY IS COMING. Sooner or later the position you take now will come back to bite you in the ass. What goes around, comes around, my friend.

Get ready.

Does it cost $ to enter the draft. Maybe I'll enter just to get my name on espn.com

[QUOTE=TheCDV]..... I wish that all of the owners would come to an agreement and blacklist this cancer in the draft.
I just really can't stand this guy Clarett. He has yet to prove much to me even in the college ranks.... let alone in the NFL. He showed the propensity to get injured and not play through minor injuries in major games. His lack of heart and dedication is laughable. [/QUOTE]

A cancer???? You guys are going overboard with this. This is not the end of the world. We do live America, right? You plan to deny a sector of our ADULT population the ability to work in the NFL because they are not old enough and might get hurt, but at the same time they are old enough to go to war and get killed? College football fans are the only one's upset with this ruling.
College students everywhere have the ability to drop out of college or decide not to go at all, in order to try out and become a member of the work force. They also have the ability to later come back to college if they want. Why can't a college football player do the same?
It seems to me the problem is with the terrible NCAA college football rules, that says if a player is drafted they lose all their college eligibility. The NCAA is a money hungry institution that hides behind the amateur sports status. The NCAA and University's can make million of dollars off the backs of players but if the player so much as gets a ride to a class, he gets suspended.
Regarding Clarett, he might be misguided, but he will be a star. I went to the Horseshoe or watched on TV every Ohio State game the year they won the NCAA Championship. Clarett played with a separated shoulder for a good part of the year. But he still lead his team in rushing on a team that could not pass and won the Championship. That very same team without Clarett the next year did not do as well.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]We do live America, right? You plan to deny a sector of our ADULT population the ability to work in the NFL because they are not old enough and might get hurt, but at the same time they are old enough to go to war and get killed? College students everywhere have the ability to drop out of college or decide not to go at all, in order to try out and become a member of the work force. They also have the ability to later come back to college if they want. Why can't a college football player do the same?[/QUOTE]

The difference is that while any college student can drop out of college to seek work, they cannot go to court and sue to get into a position the employer feels they are not qualified for. It is, after all, the employers decision whether or not they hire the applicant. In all cases, employers have certain rules applicants must follow in order to qualify for entry. Clarett sought a court order to demand the NFL abandon its eligibility rules. If that's the precedent we're trying to establish, why don't we all seek a court order to [I]force[/I] our local newspapers to offer us a position as a commentary writer on the Sports page for the Redskins?

Beemns, That might be the best point i have heard out of ANYONE, reporter, friend , journalist. Thats makes alot of sense, and next time I get in a argument with my friends, maybe i'll steal that one lol.

So an emloyer can set up a job qualification like all employees must white and deny all minority's the job? I am not a laywer (so i might be wrong) but I think there are laws that say employers can not discriminate because of race, religion and age. There are child protection laws that prevent the hiring of someone under a certain age (14?).
If you are old enough to be drafted by our goverment to go to war and die, you are old enough to work in any field.
Correct me if am wrong, but aren't there brilliant minds in our country that accelerate their education and graduate from college and somtimes medical or law school way before thier time. Do we deny them the ability to work?

I could not agree more, Beemnseven. I have argued those exact same points with Daseal before. His opinion will not be changed, no matter how precise and logical our arguments are.

[quote]
Define "we". "WE" the fans? The fans don't have a say one way or the other. The NFL decides who gets to play in their league and who doesn't. Clarett should no more be able to demand to play in the NFL than you or I.
[/quote] Change that to they, I think you're bright enough to figure out I meant we as a nation. We as football people of all sorts. More specifically the NFL.

[quote]So what? I'm trying to make a living too! That doesn't entitle me to seek a court order demanding that I get into a doctor's office to start practicing medicine because, "I'm trying to make a living!"
[/quote]
Ok, let's use my analogy this time! You're going to college, a firm comes out and offers you 100K a year if you join now, however if you stay in college you'll only get 60K a year when you get out no matter where you go. I think that you can do the math here and figure out what you'll be doing. Money is a huge part of football, no one can deny that. Clarett isn't exactly a Field Hockey Player trying to make the transition into football, he's been a football player since he can remember. You haven't been training to be a doctor since you can remember.


[quote]Fine. He may be an amazing talent. But I disagree with your premise that he "carried his team to a national championship". Football is the ultimate team sport. No one player singlehandedly leads any team anywhere without the cooperation, talent, and motivation of other members of the team.
[/quote]
Individual talent is not to be ignored. Don't let all the media hype fool you, unless you have players you can't do anything. Think the Patriots would have made it to the SuperBowl without Ty Law? Brueski, Brady? Answer: NO. Stars are needed. Barry Sanders never had shit around him and he still made the Lions orginization a lot better by himself. Had Barry had any sort of line or even a longer career in that shithole he would own every RB record known to man. Clarett didn't win by himself, but he was the key reason they did so well, they fed it to him and threw easy short passes. Clarett made that team.

[quote]The NFL is a private organization, Daseal. No one should be able to sue a private organization to demand entry. Let me ask you this: Can I seek an injunction to enter your home, despite your contention that your house is private property and you have the right to let in whomever you want? According to your logic, I can. I have every right to walk into your house by the order of a court simply based upon my opinion that I "deserve" to be there. And not you, or anyone else can stop me.
[/quote]
If you get a court order to live in my house, I am forced by law to abide, you'd never get one because it's an unreasonable request, but it could happen. If you and the judge agree that you "deserve" to be there then you most likely will be there. You're forgetting a key aspect of the Clarett case. THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS which you seem to be completely skipping in your analogies. Also, you can demand entry into the NFL. They are a private orginization, this means abosolutly nothing. Golf Courses that are male only still have to hire females that are qualified due to equal oppurtunity employment. They can let females not play because they would have to be paying members which they can neglect services to, however they can NOT keep females from working there. Just like the NFL can't keep legal adults out, unless the FCC says Football below age 21 is hazardous to your health, which is absurd.

[quote]And it's a ruling by a judge who admitted that she had never seen more than one half of a football game in her entire life.[/quote]
That's good, she doesn't have any sort of bias which is what we want in the court room. Someone who doesn't give a rats ass either way as far as this ruling goes she saw a kid trying to play but being kept out from laws that are ILLEGAL. Understand that, the NFL rules violate US law.

Defensewins: I agree with you, but remember, no age group gets bullied around like the 16-21 age group. We have no political power because we can't run, no political pull because we're poor and no real impact on elections since we have a poor turnout. However if someone steps up and organizes this age demographic some people could be in deep shit. We're also the age group that spends frivilously. Look at the laws, you can't do shit till you're 21. You have to take all the responsibility of an adult without any of lifes simple pleasres. Drinking, Gambling, etc. Of course I can enter into a legally binding contract but I can't have a glass of wine at dinner. Hell, I can't even buy cooking wine... which granted I personally wouldn't use... but hey!

[quote]The difference is that while any college student can drop out of college to seek work, they cannot go to court and sue to get into a position the employer feels they are not qualified for. It is, after all, the employers decision whether or not they hire the applicant.[/quote]
Who feels Clarett isn't qualified for the NFL? Very few people don't think he can play in this league, most people are upset because their beloved college teams can no longer just exploit these guys for cash. It's also the employeers decesion to pick up players or not. The NFL doesn't sign the checks, the team does. Teams don't HAVE to draft Clarett, teams don't HAVE to pick him up as an Undrafted agent. However he is talented, so they will. And you can sue for positions if you feel you were unfairly discriminated against. Just like those multiple lawsuits against colleges because a white student who was a better student was kept out because of affirmative action. Same with jobs, people sue if they feel they didn't get it because of some kind of descrimination (age, gender, race, etc)

DefenseWins, you're absolutly right. It's called Equal Oppurtunity Employment. Very few places are exempt from it. I mean, no one wants to see a man modeling lingerie. The NFL shouldn't be, yes this means the doors could open to women, but they better get ready to get the shit hit out of them, because you can't let someone score or catch because they're female.

Can the NFLPA disallow underclassmen from joing their association? If so and they do (which is very unlikely), then that would correspond to your country club analogy. Just because the club (NFL) must hire you doesn't mean that you automatically get all the perks of the club (ie no NFLPA support).

It depends on the NFLPA's rules. If it has a certain age limit then yes, if it says the requirements are all NFL players, then no, they can't. They can keep them out of the association, but not the league.

I knew it depended on their rules, thats why I asked if anyone knew.
Disallowing underclassmen from joining the NFLPA would go a long way to keeping them out of the NFL. The NFLPA might go for this as underclassmen would take jobs of older, more experienced veterans (more costly).

if the nfl owners banded together and drcided not to draft any of these guys could they be sued?one could say that they are guilty of age discrimination could'nt they?
i do'nt agree with these guys coming out of high school to the nfl,however if they are of certain age and pass the physical i do'nt see how they can be denied the chance to try.i think it's a mistake,but we all have our own lives to lead.

Hmm, it's not like LeBron James is any good in the NBA.

I'm just not sure why we treat College as anything other than a farm system for the pros. In basebal, hockey and international soccer, you go with actual farm clubs, and if you're good enough, you move up to the top squad. If not, you learn. We have this weird setup where these guys, whose profession is sports, have to go to college and take algebra and philosophy. Imagine if we made entertainers do that? Why should it matter for athletes? If you can do the job, you should have the opportuinity to get the job. If you can't, that's that. Why allow an organization to have a restrictive policy like this? Merit should be the rule, here as everywhere else.

And don't forget, the colleges make a ton of money,and the players get nothing! How many great athletes have been screwed over by the recruitment and elligibilty rules in football? Imagine that in other fields? Have you ever seen what a law firm does when it recruits new talent? Why should football players be blocked from getting the fair market value for their services? I'm not sure I see how football is so different from everything else, except that it is the greatest sport on Earth.

Let the players play, if they've got the abilities.

Right on JWSleep. Not to mention, if the allstars go to the pros it will open up more oppurtunities for the players that actually need schoolarships. People that will go through 4 years of college and get a degree that they use. This gives more needing people money and makes the players happy.

i do'nt think they should go straight to the pros,but i do'nt think anybody has the right to tell them they can't try however.

Stipud kids, they probably weren't elligible to play in college or they are just plain stupid. Non of the guys who declared were top prospects according to Tom Lemming. Don't they know they're all gonna have huge bullseyes on there chests if they ever somehow get to a training camp.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Ok, let's use my analogy this time! You're going to college, a firm comes out and offers you 100K a year if you join now, however if you stay in college you'll only get 60K a year when you get out no matter where you go. I think that you can do the math here and figure out what you'll be doing. Money is a huge part of football, no one can deny that. Clarett isn't exactly a Field Hockey Player trying to make the transition into football, he's been a football player since he can remember. You haven't been training to be a doctor since you can remember.[/QUOTE]

First of all, the question here isn't whether I would take $60,000 over $100,000. That answer is obvious, but insignificant to the issue. There is no doubt Clarett wants to earn money. We all do. But we cannot sue prospective employers demanding them to hire us before we meet the qualifications of the employer. Secondly, your analogy doesn't make sense because no firm would offer more money to a sophomore than a senior who has had more college training. And it doesn't matter if I haven't training to be a doctor ever since I can remember. Maurice Clarett felt he was qualified to play in the NFL, the NFL disagreed. If someone said to a doctor, "hey, I've had one year of experience in medical school! Let me practice medicine, or I'll sue you!" -- according to your logic, the court should force the doctor to let them practice.

[QUOTE=Daseal]If you get a court order to live in my house, I am forced by law to abide, you'd never get one because it's an unreasonable request, but it could happen. If you and the judge agree that you "deserve" to be there then you most likely will be there.[/QUOTE]

And that Daseal, is insane. I will say this for you though, you're consistent with this absurd position. By the way, I bet there were quite a few people who thought that Clarett's request to enter the NFL before he was eligible was unreasonable too.

[QUOTE=Daseal]You're forgetting a key aspect of the Clarett case. THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS which you seem to be completely skipping in your analogies.[/QUOTE]

I certainly haven't forgotten that. Didn't you read the words I chose: injunctions, court orders, 'sue to gain entry'. I am not denying that Clarett went about his crusade through the courts. My contention is that the court decision is wrong.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Also, you can demand entry into the NFL. They are a private orginization, this means abosolutly nothing. Golf Courses that are male only still have to hire females that are qualified due to equal oppurtunity employment. They can let females not play because they would have to be paying members which they can neglect services to, however they can NOT keep females from working there.[/QUOTE]

You're talking about two different things here. There is a difference between allowing Maurice Clarett entry into the NFL based on their own eligibility rules, and disallowing him based on race, color, national origin, sex, or age. The NFL makes its decision to allow athletes based on the number of years after high school. For most, that means forgoing their junior year of college. It has nothing to do with age, or any of the aforementioned civil rights or equal opportunity employment issues. The fact is, the NFL doesn't even need a reason to justify why the rules are the way they are. It could be because that's when the NFL decided that a football player has gained the necessary experience to play in their league. But again, it doesn't matter. [B]IT IS THEIR LEAGUE AND THEY CAN MAKE WHATEVER RULES THEY WANT.[/B]

[QUOTE=Daseal]Who feels Clarett isn't qualified for the NFL?[/QUOTE]

The NFL feels he isn't qualified. Says so in their eligibility rules.

[QUOTE=Daseal]It's also the employeers decesion to pick up players or not. The NFL doesn't sign the checks, the team does. Teams don't HAVE to draft Clarett, teams don't HAVE to pick him up as an Undrafted agent. However he is talented, so they will. And you can sue for positions if you feel you were unfairly discriminated against. Same with jobs, people sue if they feel they didn't get it because of some kind of descrimination (age, gender, race, etc)?[/QUOTE]

Every team must operate within the guidelines and rules of the NFL. And yes, now that the verdict is in, some team may very well draft him, or sign him through undrafted free agency. I know I can sue based upon anti-discrimination laws, but that's not the reason Clarett was denied entry.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]So an emloyer can set up a job qualification like all employees must white and deny all minority's the job? I am not a laywer (so i might be wrong) but I think there are laws that say employers can not discriminate because of race, religion and age. There are child protection laws that prevent the hiring of someone under a certain age (14?).
If you are old enough to be drafted by our goverment to go to war and die, you are old enough to work in any field.[/QUOTE]

An employer cannot refuse to hire anyone based on their color, race, or national origin. Just because anyone over the age of 18 is qualified to fire a gun at the enemy and risk bodily injury or death, doesn't instantly qualify them to apply for and get any job they want.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Correct me if am wrong, but aren't there brilliant minds in our country that accelerate their education and graduate from college and somtimes medical or law school way before thier time. Do we deny them the ability to work?[/QUOTE]

No, there are rare cases like this, but again, an employer in this situation would make a hiring decision based on their qualifications. Someone who has passed through medical or law school 'way before their time' will most likely be hired because they have accomplished the necessary requirements to work in those fields. In the Clarett case, he is [I]unqualified[/I] based on the number of years that have passed since he graduated from high school -- in other words, he has not met the specific requirements to play football in the NFL. Simple as that.

[quote]First of all, the question here isn't whether I would take $60,000 over $100,000. That answer is obvious, but insignificant to the issue. There is no doubt Clarett wants to earn money. We all do. But we cannot sue prospective employers demanding them to hire us before we meet the qualifications of the employer. Secondly, your analogy doesn't make sense because no firm would offer more money to a sophomore than a senior who has had more college training.[/quote]
Of course it doesn't make sense. I was trying to put it in terms you might be able to fathom since your mindset seems to be running one way. Clarett had an amazing year, if the next year he has isn't so good HE LOSES MONEY. Simple as that. Had he gone out right after buckeyes season he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Only reason anyone is slightly tentive about him is he's been away from football for a little while. And yes, we CAN sue if the employeers qualifications are unreasonable. Which in this case it was decided that they were. He was kept out because of his age, yes it goes by years out of high school, but you know what, that argument doesn't hold water, because of the NFL draft Clarett should have been out of HS for 3 years. He graduated early, in December of 2000, I'm pretty sure. The NFL then quickly said, oh well we didn't mean for it to work like that! So they sued with anti-trust laws, which were OVIOUSLY broken.

[quote]And that Daseal, is insane. I will say this for you though, you're consistent with this absurd position. By the way, I bet there were quite a few people who thought that Clarett's request to enter the NFL before he was eligible was unreasonable too.[/quote]
This is far from absurd. If there was a court order given for you to live in my house I can not stop you. I can appeal and hope that goes through, but if it is finalized nothing I can do. Yes, many people thought his request was unreasonable, but others of us saw it coming from a mile away and think it's a positive thing.

[quote]My contention is that the court decision is wrong.[/quote]
So go spend some money on Capitol Hill and lobby to get anti-trust laws voided. Goodluck.

[quote]NFL makes its decision to allow athletes based on the number of years after high school. For most, that means forgoing their junior year of college. It has nothing to do with age, or any of the aforementioned civil rights or equal opportunity employment issues. The fact is, the NFL doesn't even need a reason to justify why the rules are the way they are. It could be because that's when the NFL decided that a football player has gained the necessary experience to play in their league.[/quote]
Wrong. They have to pass a physical which makes them eligible. They won't let someone my size in unless they play kicker! They do need to justify their rules, otherwise they will be overturned like we saw. The NFL will have younger kids in it, get used to it. These players will still go to college for a year or two I bet, they just want to come out when they feel they're ready. No one's bitching about Mike Williams coming out. Clarett is a better player than Mike Williams, in my honest opinion. He's a tough little bastard and he can run hard. I think it was Michael Clayton that said he expected 10-12 underclassment to come out. This is something college players wanted for a long time. Also, the NFL is discriminating. It's age, don't let the wording fool you. You think they would let a genius who graduated highschool at 13 play in the NFL when he was 16? Nope, they'd find ways around it.

[quote]The NFL feels he isn't qualified. Says so in their eligibility rules.
[/quote]Who gives a shit? They have special interests to protect that don't pertain to the NFL at all. Ask any sports 'expert' if physically and mentally Clarett can play ball. 90% will say yes, but they're worried about the ones that aren't.

[quote]Every team must operate within the guidelines and rules of the NFL. And yes, now that the verdict is in, some team may very well draft him, or sign him through undrafted free agency. I know I can sue based upon anti-discrimination laws, but that's not the reason Clarett was denied entry.[/quote]
Anti-trust laws.

Either way, don't get too worked up. After the NFL draft the NFL lawyers will file an appeal and Clarett will no longer have reason to fight it. The NFL will go closed door until sued again.

You know... to put my 2 cents in on this whole situation...

I think it's pretty wild how people can say that the ruling wasn't justified.

I hate to point this out and get in the middle of this whole argument, but many times in your statements Beem, you basically infer that someone can "sue to [B]GET[/B] a job" as a doctor or whatever with no experience.

What's wrong with that is the fact that all this ruling decides is that they have the right to [B]APPLY[/B] for that position. If I wanted to try and get a job as a surgeon? At least I CAN apply. Naturally they'd laugh me out of the hospital, because I am nowhere near QUALIFIED, nor do I have the SKILL... but see, deciding whether I am qualified and talented enough? That is up to the individual hospital director.

You can't say to someone over the age of 18, sorry, you can't even APPLY for this job because of your age. All Clarett's ruling says, is that if you are old enough to vote, old enough to fight for this country... you are old enough to TRY and make a living for yourself.

It's strange how people are sooooo dead set against this. I mean, the owners should be able to hire Mickey Mouse if they want to. They OWN that franchise and could run into the ground if they choose. I mean, come on man, do you REALLY think this will "RUIN FOTBALL FOREVER AND EVER" ??

If an 18 year old kid gets drafted, he'd go to camp, and if he sucked, he wouldn't start, and would be cut. That simple. That team just wasted a draft pick... big deal. Just because a guy high-schooler gets drafted doesn't mean he's going to be killed on the football field.

That is one thing I think is REALLY exaggerated in this whole thing... the saying that 18 year-olds would be killed by these NFL players.

Sean Taylor is being compared to Ronnie Lott, laying out devestating blows on opponent's wide recievers... many of whom are 18-19. I don't recall him actually brutalizing or permantly injuring any of these young bucks.

I personally am not a Clarrett fan, but my whole school of thought is... If a kid is 18, not booksmart, but one HELLof a great mechanic... when he gets out of high school, he should be able to get a job as such. To make a mechanic go to at least 3 years of college first wouldn't make sense to me, or seem fair.

I really don't see how this is such a tremendously awful thing.

the ruling says that they have the right to enter the nfl draft,it does however mean that the legue is going to pick them.they deserve the right to try out as much as the league deserves the right to not pick them.very good point friend....

[QUOTE=Daseal] If you get a court order to live in my house, I am forced by law to abide, you'd never get one because it's an unreasonable request, but it could happen. Golf Courses that are male only still have to hire females that are qualified due to equal oppurtunity employment. [/QUOTE]

That's exactly the point, Clarrett's request is unreasonable; he is seeking entry to the NFL (the house) when the NFL should be able to determine who and who cannot come in.

EOE doesn't offer sweeping protections; just look at bartenders, people who sell alcohol (i.e. owners of a liquor store), people who drive cars, people seeking to rent a car, people applying for certain senior jobs (that require say 10 years of work experience), people running for political office (i.e. President, Senator, Congressman), and a number of others.

Also, the NFL isn't prohibiting ther entry of young people because they hate those damn youngsters; it's because they believe that the NFL requires physical and emotional maturity which young people lack. That's why the University of Michigan's affirmative action program was held consitutional; it was not seeking people of different races simply because they didn't like white people, it was because they wanted to create a diverse environment that was conducive to learning about a variety of perspectives. This goers beyond someone's birth date, it has to do with maturity and Clarrett is no example of a responsible, wise-beyond his years guy.

I firmly believe that the Clarrett case will be overturned.

I think Daesal was referencing the anti-trust laws because the judge in the Clarrett case ruled the NFL had a monopoly on professional football and that it couldn't discriminate based on age.

However, that's a freaking ridiculous ruling for all the reasons I stated above.


NOTE: I'm not trying to be a jerk, but Daesal and Beems - you guys both need to tone it down a bit. I'm sorta the same way sometimes, but I try not to be. Let's discuss this stuff in a calm manner. Thanks for your cooperation and keep up the good posts and debate, just leave out personal attacks.

[QUOTE=Daseal]And yes, we CAN sue if the employeers qualifications are unreasonable. Which in this case it was decided that they were. He was kept out because of his age, yes it goes by years out of high school, but you know what, that argument doesn't hold water, because of the NFL draft Clarett should have been out of HS for 3 years. He graduated early, in December of 2000, I'm pretty sure. The NFL then quickly said, oh well we didn't mean for it to work like that! So they sued with anti-trust laws, which were OVIOUSLY broken.[/QUOTE]

I know we CAN sue if we feel employer qualifications are unreasonable. Hell, in this over-litigious society [B]anyone[/B] can sue for just about [B]anything[/B]. But that isn't the issue, either. When a court rules the way it does here, then privacy rights in this country and freedom of association are quickly becoming obsolete.

[QUOTE=Daseal]This is far from absurd. If there was a court order given for you to live in my house I can not stop you. I can appeal and hope that goes through, but if it is finalized nothing I can do.[/QUOTE]

You think it is 'far from absurd' for me to seek a court order demanding entry into your house for no other reason that I think I "deserve" to be there? Yes, Daseal. Give that one some thought, will you? Sleep on it tonight and hopefully you will awake tomorrow morning with a better understanding of how hysterically absurd that notion is. Any judge would have thrown my suit out the window, which is what Schindlin should have done with Clarett's.

[QUOTE=Daseal]So go spend some money on Capitol Hill and lobby to get anti-trust laws voided. Goodluck.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? Get the anti-trust laws voided? Daseal, when I read posts like this, I get the feeling you are beginning to lose control. Earlier, you made this statement: "You're forgetting a key aspect of the Clarett case. THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS which you seem to be completely skipping in your analogies." I responded by saying that I am not questioning the fact that Clarett went through the legal process, I'm saying that the court decision is wrong. The fact that this judge made a completely wacked out ruling has nothing to do with whether the anti-trust laws need to be changed.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Wrong. They have to pass a physical which makes them eligible. They won't let someone my size in unless they play kicker! They do need to justify their rules, otherwise they will be overturned like we saw. Also, the NFL is discriminating. It's age, don't let the wording fool you. You think they would let a genius who graduated highschool at 13 play in the NFL when he was 16? Nope, they'd find ways around it.[/QUOTE]

Passing a physical most certainly is not the only way to make a player eligible. That's a test teams initiate to determine if a player is in proper physical condition to make the roster. It is not used to determine if someone is eligible to play in the NFL. Your size, and Clarett's size are not the issue here. They are not denying him entry because they think he is too small. I don't have a copy of the NFL rulebook, but I'm certain there is a restriction for Einstein-like wizards who graduate at 13 years old, as well.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Who gives a shit?[/QUOTE]

The NFL gives a shit. You asked earlier "who says Clarett isn't qualified?" I answered your question.

Anything else, Daseal?

[quote]I know we CAN sue if we feel employer qualifications are unreasonable. Hell, in this over-litigious society anyone can sue for just about anything. But that isn't the issue, either. When a court rules the way it does here, then privacy rights in this country and freedom of association are quickly becoming obsolete.[/quote]
You're able to sue for anything you want. I could take you to court for not agreeing with me on this board. Obviously it wouldn't get far, but I'd force you to show up. That's how our lovely legal system works. That's one of the trick questions on the BAR in some cases. Want privacy? Vote democratic, hello Patriot Act!

[quote]You think it is 'far from absurd' for me to seek a court order demanding entry into your house for no other reason that I think I "deserve" to be there? Yes, Daseal. Give that one some thought, will you? Sleep on it tonight and hopefully you will awake tomorrow morning with a better understanding of how hysterically absurd that notion is. Any judge would have thrown my suit out the window, which is what Schindlin should have done with Clarett's.
[/quote]
I don't think it's far from absurd to seek one. That's crazy. I was simply stating that if you want to go to a court and state you belong to be in my house, you have the right to do that. Will you get in? Most likely not unless you are somehow entitled to my belongings. I've heard of crazier rulings. A man with his 7th DUI once was forced to move 1 or less blocks away from a liqour store to cut down on his drinking and driving. There are a million extremely odd outcomes to legal cases. I'm saying that if you were to win the lawsuit, there's nothing I could do.


[quote]What are you talking about? Get the anti-trust laws voided? Daseal, when I read posts like this, I get the feeling you are beginning to lose control. Earlier, you made this statement: "You're forgetting a key aspect of the Clarett case. THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS which you seem to be completely skipping in your analogies." I responded by saying that I am not questioning the fact that Clarett went through the legal process, I'm saying that the court decision is wrong. The fact that this judge made a completely wacked out ruling has nothing to do with whether the anti-trust laws need to be changed. [/quote]
The Anti-trust laws being violated are what got Clarett into the NFL.

You didn't answer the is he qualified question. 95% of the football community feels he's qualified to play professionally. You honestly think in the extra year he would mature and grow up to a state much higher than the one he's currently in? I doubt it. One year means just about nothing in terms of maturing, but it means millions of dollars in salary. Which is more than I'll ever see in a year, that's for sure.

The NFL has no right to keep these players out because of their age. Let's talk about Mike Williams some? You seem to dodge questions about him. Is it you just don't like Clarett because he did something for himself? He fought the system which he felt was unfair.

It's like saying that because the blacks once weren't allowed to go to the same schools as white kids that who are they to challenge that rule and want an equal chance. Why does everyone in this country want an equal chance? Maybe if college football wouldn't exploit these kids and let them make some money in college football this would have never happened. Let them take endorsement deals, let them have a small share of jersey sales, fix the fucking BCS, then come whining to me about them wanting to play. They think they can move to the next level, who is the NFL to stop them? The NFL has to give them the ability to apply like stated earlier. It's not like Clarett's asking for a job guarentee, he just want's a chance to have his application in the mix. What's wrong with letting THE BEST PLAYERS into the NFL?

[QUOTE=Daseal]You honestly think in the extra year he would mature and grow up to a state much higher than the one he's currently in? I doubt it. One year means just about nothing in terms of maturing, but it means millions of dollars in salary. Which is more than I'll ever see in a year, that's for sure. [/QUOTE]

You're right that one year probably does not mean all that much. However, if you value maturity, you need to set some guidelines (even if they seem arbitrary). Plus, we're trying to say that the NFL has the right to make whatever membership rules they choose - provided they are legal.

We are saying that the government's interference in this matter isn't justifiable and legally, the ruling was erroneous.

[QUOTE=Daseal] The NFL has no right to keep these players out because of their age. Let's talk about Mike Williams some? You seem to dodge questions about him. Is it you just don't like Clarett because he did something for himself? He fought the system which he felt was unfair. [/QUOTE]

Mike Williams is being allowed in because of the ruling. The NFL must follow this ruling until it is overturned. I don't agree with either Clarett or Williams getting into the NFL.

[QUOTE=Daseal] It's like saying that because the blacks once weren't allowed to go to the same schools as white kids that who are they to challenge that rule and want an equal chance. They think they can move to the next level, who is the NFL to stop them? [/QUOTE]

This situation is in no reasonable waycomparable to the civil rights struggle of blacks in the U.S.

The NFL is the organization Clarett is seeking to enter so I think they have a right to determine who can come into the league. AARP doesn't let kids in either but I'm not going to whine about that. I don't get the kids eat free meal either when I go out. Amusement parks don't give me a kids/senior citizen discount. I don't get to shop at the PX because I'm not in the military (which has its own age, weight, health criteria).

Again, this is not age discrimination, its maturity discrimination. Though the rules seem arbitrary, they are the league's rules and since they are not illegal (in my mind), the government should not force the hand of the league.

Let's settle the legal aspect of the NFL age-discrimination situation since the Supreme Court will take a year to reach a ruling. The age discrimination laws apply to those 40 or older, not 40 or under. Hence, laws restricting minors and those under 21 from applying for certain jobs (i.e. bartender).

So, any discussion about the EOE is irrelevant.

Now, the second issue in [U]Clarett v. NFL[/U] concerns Clarett's contention that the NFL is a monopoly and therefore it has no legal right to prohibit him from entering the NFL draft (thereby preventing him from pursuing his career).

I really doubt that Judge Judy's ruling in favor of Clarett will withstand the tests the appellate courts will apply. I say this with confidence because the Supreme Court has already ruled that the NFL is not subject to anti-trust laws since the NFL has a collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association.

This legal antitrust precedent was established in [U]Brown v. Pro Football, Inc[/U]., wherein the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1996 that terms of employment are immune from antitrust challenges. The court wrote, in an 8-1 voting judgment, that terms and conditions of employment are mandatory subjects of collective bargaining. Therefore, anti-trust laws were not designed to, nor should they be used to interfere in situations such as Clarett's (in which the labor union does not have a dispute with the employer (NFL) and there is a collective bargaining agreement).

Judge Judy had no right to ignore the precedent established by the Supreme Court ruling.

Ramseyfan rests your Honor.

For starters, Clarrett is not, I repeat not a better player than Mike Williams, and I can say that knowing that williams has atleast put up 2 seasons with incredibles stats and is a physically gifted WR. Clarrett on the other hand has not played a full season of football since highschool 3 years ago, we've seen quite a few other runningbacks through the years with the same physical traits, and he's coming to the nfl because he couldn't make the grade, pardon the pun. Secondly, while I know this wasn't part of the debate, I think college athletes should be paid because they are pretty much working for the college. Of course the opposing view on that would be that most are there on athletic scholarships and that is their method of payment.

I hate the ruling allowing pretty much anyone who wants a shot to try out for football regardless of age and expirience, but I understand it's a ruling following the letter of the law. That being said, I agree with the argument that if certain jobs require certain training and expirience, why is it that the NFL can't make similar standards of employment. I dont know how old everyone writing about this is, but I can't remember knowing anyone in highschool and college that was anywhere near both physically and mentally ready to play football on a professional level. I know there are very rare exceptions, but I'm sorry clarrett fans, a player who couldn't even play a full season(about 13-14 weeks of games plus a possible bowl game) of college football is not going to last a full nfl season(20 weeks of games plus any possible playoffs.) And I think its same to say with him having both legal and eligability(sp?) problems in one year rules him out as being altogether mature. and plus if he cared so much about getting into the league, why did he show up to the combine looking like he hadn;t worked out in monthes?

Overall the whole thing sucks but I don't see us winding up with watered down talent like the nba. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this part of the ruling or not but how do you feel about the judge ruling that anyone entering doesn't lose their eligability and can rejoin their college/highschool team?

when I said I couldn't remember anyone in highschool or college being physically or mentally ready I meant underclassmen as relating to the college aspect of that.

Its funny that the best of these highschoolers that want into the league was a DB that had no interceptions, not passes defended, and played on an 0-10 team. Obviously these guys will not be playing in the league anytime soon.

they should have the right to try out if they want to.as long as they all know that by trying out they can never play college sports ever again.they need to make sure they know what they are losing out on.

the thing about it is, is that you guys have to know that when most if not all of these guys don't get drafted, they are going to sue the nfl for collusion in an effort to prevent highschoolers and early underclassmen from being drafted. even if there isn't any collusion, there'd be an investigation and if anything actually was found who knows what the punishments might be.and that note about that hs cb entering the draft is pathetic. how in the blue hell did he even think he was good enough to be selected in the draft? the towel and water boys have better stats than that.

Ok, Since this subject has become REALLY heavy, I feel the need to unleash some comic relief. This is ACTUALLY posted in the article linked on page one.

[QUOTE=that Silly Article]After Clarett and Williams, the best player would figure to be Ronnie McCrae of Pasadena (Calif.) City College. [I][B]However, McCrae, a defensive back, had no interceptions for a team that went 0-10, according to The Washington Post[/B][/I].[/QUOTE]

OK, everyone laugh now. lol :D