Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

The past month has been a tumultuous time for the Redskins faithful with the will he/won't he on the Cutler trade, the rumored infatuation with Mark Sanchez and the potential cost of that move and really just a general sense of uneasiness among us all. It was touched on in another thread that the Sanchez trade/draft could be one of the 5 worst moves in Snyder's ownership reign so it seemed like it could spawn 2 threads of their own- so in this one what are your worst 5 moves of the Dan Snyder era?

Worst 5 (in no particular order)
1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer. I will admit, I hated the Marty-ball era for most of his lone season with the team. It was bland, boring to watch, seemingly way out-dated and I thought he was just in it for the paycheck. What I missed was what his plan was. He wasn't trying to win a season, he was trying to build a team. He had to get buy in, had to get his players, had to get the organization on track and with his plan and Snyder's pockets it could have been amazing. His military style clashed with the defensive leaders, won him no favor in the locker room but given time likely would have produced results for most of this decade. Another coach that was initially hated but eventually saw the results of his program-Tom Coughlin.

2. Hiring Steve Spurrier. Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Jacquez Green, Reidel Anthony, just the whole damn Gator-Skins era was terrible. If there ever was a time that we needed Charley Casserly (or another GM) to pick the right pieces that was the time. Spurrier was overmatched on the NFL level and it was pretty evident early on. By the end of his 2nd year it was almost merciful for Spurrier to leave. He was tired of the NFL and God knows we were tired of him! The shame is he could have been a successful offensive coordinator with the right GM and right head coach.

3. The offseason championships. Since 2000 the Redskins have earned the reputation-sometimes legitimately, sometimes not-of being champs of the offseason. The worst was 2000 coming off the division title season and bringing in Smith, George, Carrier and Deion but not far behind was the Brandon Lloyd/Adam Archuleta offseason of '05. We can't really fault Snyder for big game hunting but we can clearly blame him for his aim!

4. Hiring Joe Gibbs. I know I am going to get killed for this because of who Gibbs is and what he represents. I also know that I included him in my best 5 list so it's contradictory for him to be in the worst 5 also but hear me out. When Gibbs arrived, we were a mess. We had no clear answer at QB, an OK offensive line, no legitimate depth in the WR corp and only two playmakers (Arrington & Pierce) on defense (not counting Champ because he was leaving). After 4 years of Gibbs, when he left we had no clear answer at QB, an older but still OK offensive line, no legitimate depth in the WR corp and only two playmakers (Landry & Fletcher) on defense. Gibbs had a 4 year plan and sacraficed much of our future to try to reach it. Once he left, we were left with an old, bloated, mediocre roster and not much to restock the cupboard with.

5. Vinny Cerrato. I don't think there is a team executive as reviled by his fan base (now that Millen was fired) as Vinny is with the Redskins. I don't think there is anything tangible that we can specifically point to him and say, 'you did this!' but the problem is his relationship to the owner and the perceived lap dog status it represents. With an owner like Snyder, we need a strong, accomplished GM that he will respect and defer to. Vinny just gives us the sense that even if it's the most moronic football decision, he will reply with-'Well if you think so, Dan.' Cerrato isn't helped by his portrayal in the media, but it's telling that after Marty fired him he didn't get a sniff in any other organization.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Paintrain;547047]1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer. I will admit, I hated the Marty-ball era for most of his lone season with the team. It was bland, boring to watch, seemingly way out-dated and I thought he was just in it for the paycheck. What I missed was what his plan was. He wasn't trying to win a season, he was trying to build a team. He had to get buy in, had to get his players, had to get the organization on track and with his plan and Snyder's pockets it could have been amazing. His military style clashed with the defensive leaders, won him no favor in the locker room but given time likely would have produced results for most of this decade. Another coach that was initially hated but eventually saw the results of his program-Tom Coughlin.[/quote]

Mark Schlereth once said that playing against Marty Schottenheimer coached teams were absolute battles; that the next day, the bumps and bruises were harder to deal with than the bumps and bruises that you got from playing other teams.

I still have no doubt that whatever happens with regard to Mark Sanchez, Dan Snyder could trade away this year's entire draft, plus next year's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and you'd still have the same old people eventually coming around to the defense of this front office no matter what they do.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

#1 - firing Norv in the middle of a possible play off run

#2 - letting Brian Mitchell go to Philly + the D. Sanders signing

#3 - Firing of Marty and re-hiring of My Cousin Vinny

#4 - Trading Champ for Portis - (I love Portis....but honesty someone of Champs ability doesn't come around every year, and really when you think about it, has Portis really put up superior #'s....NO, hasn't come close to rushing titles, doesn't have that break away speed anymore)

#5 - Allowing Antonio Pierce to walk. It took us how many years to get a good replacement, and he will be gone in a year due to age and decline in play. Pierce was a beast, true professional, and worked harder in the film room than anyone on that team and it showed on the field. He was a REDSKIN..

I guess # 5 could be a combination of things, but the overall statement would be " Letting Redskins go for the bigger name and overpaying"

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

-not doing his research on Spurrier
-not coming to an agreement with Ron Wolf
-Duckett trade
-Letting Bruce Smith and D. Green run things
-Charging for practice

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

In my oppinion it all starts at the top so I see the bad personel decisions as the result of the bad front office/coaching decisions so I listed mostly front office moves and only one player move:

1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer- I would really like to list this as 1 through 5.
2. Vinny Cerrato
3. Firing Charley Casserly instead of Norv
4. Hiring Steve Spurrier
5. Trading Champ for Portis

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Removing press credentials from Joe Crisp.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Neon Freaking Deion

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;547070]
-Charging for practice[/quote]

I forgot about that one....good one Mr Smack

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=70Chip;547073]Removing press credentials from Joe Crisp.[/quote]
good one,what happened to Joe?

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

1. Deion Sanders - possibly the worst move in Redskins history. He would never be considered a Skin no matter what.
2. Firing Marty - I know he has no Super Bowls, but he was getting the team back on the right track.
3. Charging for practices - not only was it unfair to the fans, it allowed every other team to come and watch practices.
4. Firing Norv before the end of the season
5. Deion Sanders - I mean really, wtf?

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

I would have to disagree with the champ for portis trade as being one of the worst mistakes of the Snyder era. I think that trade was a good one even though Bailey was my favorite player on the team before the trade. Our corner play has not been bad since we let Champ go, we have had and still have good corners. Clinton has definetly improved this team on off. and he is the only reason that any team even fears us a little. When ever teams are planning for us who is the person that they always mention???? Clinton Portis..

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

5) Letting Antonio Pierce walk. The guy was the brain and spinal cord of our defense. And he's really hurt us in every game against the Giants since.

4) Hiring Spurrier. He clearly didn't take the NFL seriously.

3) Adam Archuleta - Nobody did their homework on this guy, he couldn't do what GW needed him to do.

2) Deion Sanders.

1) Jeff George - We had a pretty good thing going with Brad Johnson, we bring this bozo in and it disrupted our entire offense. Terrible fit, terrible leader.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Can I get clarification on something? I seem to remember that Champ Bailey was going to leave the Skins eventually anyway so instead of having him jump ship with nothing to show for it we traded him and got Portis. You guys would know for sure, can you help a brother out?

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;547062][B]Stubblefield[/B]
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.[/quote]

Stubblefield was a terrible move but his signing happened in 1998, pre-Danny. Can't blame Danny for that one.

1) Pierce
2) Casserly
3) Gator-skins
4) Archuleta
5) Duckett

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;547101]Can I get clarification on something? I seem to remember that Champ Bailey was going to leave the Skins eventually anyway so instead of having him jump ship with nothing to show for it we traded him and got Portis. You guys would know for sure, can you help a brother out?[/quote]

Yeah, he let it be known thru his agent that he was not interested in signing with the Redskins once we didn't extend him before the season and then we were going thru another coaching change.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Paintrain;547108]Yeah, he let it be known thru his agent that he was not interested in signing with the Redskins once we didn't extend him before the season and then we were going thru another coaching change.[/quote]

Yes. Champ wanted to leave.

What got me about that trade was not Champ for Portis but the #2 pick that we threw into the deal. Portis was also unhappy in Denver. It has always seemed to me that a harder bargain could have been struck.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Paintrain;547108]Yeah, he let it be known thru his agent that he was not interested in signing with the Redskins once we didn't extend him before the season and then we were going thru another coaching change.[/quote]

I wonder how he feels now? **** him!! He should have been a Redskin for life. The grass is not always greener on the other side (I guess monetarily it is).

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;547062]Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.[/quote]

Yeah I remember the end of that 03 season and the team had just 100% quit on Spurrier. And I also remember the first part of the 01 season when the team wouldn't play for Marty cause he was such a dick. Gibbs 2 made his fair share of mistakes but I've never seen a Gibbs team qiut.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

1. Keeping Norv or Charely C.
2. Hiring Marty S. and giving full control.
3. The whole mess of 2000. You can't buy championships
4. Not letting GW take over
5. Hiring a college coach who didn't even know WTF he was doing.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;547062]Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

[b]By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.[/b][/quote]
I completely agree with that, which is why that move is also on my best list but for all the integrity restoring he did, when he left the team was no better than it was when he arrived in many areas.

We didn't have a clear QB picture when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have good WR depth when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have consistent game changers when he arrived, nor when he left.

In many ways, the Gibbs years-since he was on a 4 year plan-set us back a few years because he left us with an old, bloated roster and not much to build with.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;547113]I wonder how he feels now? **** him!! He should have been a Redskin for life. The grass is not always greener on the other side (I guess monetarily it is).[/quote]

Yea your right it is not always Greener. All you Jason Campbell haters better remember it if we draft Sanchez or get rid of Campbell.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

1. Hiring Spurrier and not hiring Marvin Lewis as Head Coach
2.Firing Marty after 1 season of 8-8. Just when the team started to respond to his style.
3.Looking to sign the next high profile old free agent ( Sanders, B.Smith, J. George,J.Taylor,M.Carrier,M.Brunell). Brunell did give Jason time to learn, but we change systems every year.
4.Not keeping good Redskin players ( A.Pierce, B. Mitchell,Ryan Clark, Brad Johnson Super Bowl QB.) Damm all these players have won a Super Bowl ring since they depart DC.

5.Not hiring Gregg Williams as Head Coach. We need a defensive mind coach that can make this team physically and mentallity tougher.

Thats my idea of his worst moves thus far.
6.Getting rid of Jason Campbell is on the horizon.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Paintrain;547136]I completely agree with that, which is why that move is also on my best list but for all the integrity restoring he did, when he left the team was no better than it was when he arrived in many areas.

We didn't have a clear QB picture when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have good WR depth when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have consistent game changers when he arrived, nor when he left.

In many ways, the Gibbs years-since he was on a 4 year plan-set us back a few years because he left us with an old, bloated roster and not much to build with.[/quote]

Dude, you're making no sense. You can't have it listed as both a best move and a worst move at the same time, they are mutually exclusive categories. It kind of completely tanks the credibility of your entire list.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

-- Showing Brian Mitchell the door.

-- Attempting to weasel out of the contract he signed with Marty to get more control.

-- Firing Marty.

-- All of the boneheaded personnel moves, I've listed them before, no point in rehashing them.

-- Ignoring the model of success of all the championship teams: Recognizing the importance of the draft, and stockpiling as many picks as possible.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Not hiring Williams as Head Coach - and keep Al Saunders as Offensive Coordinator. We had a good run to end the year - thanks to T Collins playing well in the Al Saunders offense down the stretch. Honestly, I was hoping the offense would stay intact, and that Collins would at least be given a shot to start the following year. He understood the offense inside and out, considering all the time he had with Saunders in KC. I know Collins is old, but he guided us to a 4-0 record the end of the year and into the playoffs.
I loves G Williams intensity. He deserved a shot.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=redskins1974;547152]Not hiring Williams as Head Coach - and keep Al Saunders as Offensive Coordinator. We had a good run to end the year - thanks to T Collins playing well in the Al Saunders offense down the stretch. Honestly, I was hoping the offense would stay intact, and that Collins would at least be given a shot to start the following year. He understood the offense inside and out, considering all the time he had with Saunders in KC. I know Collins is old, but he guided us to a 4-0 record the end of the year and into the playoffs.
I loves G Williams intensity. He deserved a shot.[/quote]

Agreed. I thought that would have been the best course of action as well. They seemed convinced that the team was close to being on the level of a consistent winner, but then they turn around and completely change the offense. If there was one aspect of the team that needed to stay intact and build on the success that it did have, it was Al Saunders offense.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Schneed10;547147]Dude, you're making no sense. You can't have it listed as both a best move and a worst move at the same time, they are mutually exclusive categories. It kind of completely tanks the credibility of your entire list.[/quote]

Here's how it makes sense. Gibbs did all of the intangible things our franchise needed when he came back. He 'restored our integrity' after the Spurrier debacle, he was able to guide us through the Sean Taylor tragedy like probably no other coach could, he put us back in the category of respectability rather than the laughingstock we had become.

For all good that he did, our roster is overall weighted down by his failed agenda to win in 4 years. During his time we traded more picks than any other time in this decade. During his time we acquired more free agents young and old than any other time this decade. During his time we didn't tangibly improve (unquestioned long term starters) at any key positions other than S, RB and TE. See my previous post about the number of question marks that were here when he came in and the same question marks remained when he left.

Clear opportunities were missed badly at 3 key positions. 3 specific moves could have dramatically altered our roster and we'd be in a much different place. For example-
-Acquiring Brunell and not seeing what he had in Ramsey for at least one season. We've seen that Ramsey didn't get it done as an NFL starter, but if Gibbs saw that after the first year he could have acquired Drew Brees as a FA.
-Not letting Pierce go. Obvious miss here, no need to belabor this point. As good as Fletcher is and has been for us, we are in a position THIS YEAR where we are already having to consider his replacement.
-Not letting Smoot go. The domino effect of this one is, to me, the biggest gaffe in the Gibbs era. Smoot leaves which left a void at CB, which we filled with Carlos Rogers. In picking Rogers, we bypassed Shawn Merriman and Demarcus Ware. Both became elite pass rushers and perennial All Pros at a position (pass rusher) that we've been trying to fill for 20 years. Not to mention we have to face Ware twice a year makes it all the more dramatic.

To ignore those facts is ignoring the overall impact of the Gibbs return.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;547062]Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.[/quote]

well done but put spurrier first.that was a very embarrasing time to be a redskin when he did the duck qwacking thing on monday night football and they replayed it over and over in slow motion after getting stomped by the giants

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

He really has only made two mistakes............

1)Not letting football people do their job..........

2)Listening to anything Vinnie Cerroto has to say.

...............that is only an outsiders opinion.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Giantone;547187]He really has only made two mistakes............

1)Not letting football people do their job..........

2)Listening to anything Vinnie Cerroto has to say.

...............that is only an outsiders opinion.[/quote]

It may be an outsider's opinion but it is a good one.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Schneed10;547096]5) Letting Antonio Pierce walk. The guy was the brain and spinal cord of our defense. And he's really hurt us in every game against the Giants since.

4) Hiring Spurrier. He clearly didn't take the NFL seriously.

3) Adam Archuleta - Nobody did their homework on this guy, he couldn't do what GW needed him to do.

2) Deion Sanders.

1) Jeff George - We had a pretty good thing going with Brad Johnson, we bring this bozo in and it disrupted our entire offense. Terrible fit, terrible leader.[/quote]

I think you have the best list so far.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

I know I'm just repeating things others have said, but here's my list.

1) Firing Casserly instead of Norv. I put this at number 1. Casserly was no genius, but Norv should have been fired at the first opportunity. I actually have no blame for Snyder for his before-the-end-of-the-season firing of Norv.

2) Hiring Spurrier.

3) The Williams/Fassel episode. I realize that this is hard to label a "move," since it obviously did not result in a signing. However, I think few things made Snyder look more incompetent than the whole coach hiring process. Williams was kept in the dark for far too long, news sources were beginning to mock the drama surrounding the process, and then Fassel was reportedly just on the verge of getting signed before a fan backlash allegedly forced Snyder to back off. Even if that last element was not really true, the fact that it was not considered entirely unbelievable says quite a bit about Snyder.

4) The 2000 signing bonanza.

5) Re-hiring Cerrato.

I agree that Pierce should not have been let go, and I'd otherwise be inclined to put that on my list but for the fact that I'm not sure the blame is entirely Snyder's on that end. Is that what others think? That Gibbs and Cerrato had nothing to do with that?

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

Spurrier, was that really such a bad move or one that just did not work? Its easy now to see it was a bad move but if I'm correct alot of people thought Spurrier was going to be a great NFL coach.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=firstdown;547513]Spurrier, was that really such a bad move or one that just did not work? Its easy now to see it was a bad move but if I'm correct alot of people thought Spurrier was going to be a great NFL coach.[/quote]

Spurrier would have been someone's mistake eventually. Snyder just accelerated his rise to the NFL by throwing him a boatload of $$.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=Giantone;547187]He really has only made two mistakes............

1)Not letting football people do their job..........

2)Listening to anything Vinnie Cerroto has to say.

...............that is only an outsiders opinion.[/quote]

That's about right.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

1) Adam Archuleta - the worst free agent pickup by any team, ever!
2) Deion Sanders - no tackling, showboating, often-injured, waste of a uniform, Cowturd
3) Brandon Lloyd - can't catch a cold!
4) T.J. Duckett- Tip toe through the tulips...through the tulips.
5) Antonio Pierce - just as he became a stud, moneybags didn't resign him.

Dan Snyder, Dumb and Vinny Cerano, Dumber.

Re: Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?
 

[quote=BringBackJoeT;547502]I know I'm just repeating things others have said, but here's my list.

1) Firing Casserly instead of Norv. I put this at number 1. Casserly was no genius, but Norv should have been fired at the first opportunity. I actually have no blame for Snyder for his before-the-end-of-the-season firing of Norv.

2) Hiring Spurrier.

3) The Williams/Fassel episode. I realize that this is hard to label a "move," since it obviously did not result in a signing. However, I think few things made Snyder look more incompetent than the whole coach hiring process. Williams was kept in the dark for far too long, news sources were beginning to mock the drama surrounding the process, and then Fassel was reportedly just on the verge of getting signed before a fan backlash allegedly forced Snyder to back off. Even if that last element was not really true, the fact that it was not considered entirely unbelievable says quite a bit about Snyder.

4) The 2000 signing bonanza.

5) Re-hiring Cerrato.

I agree that Pierce should not have been let go, and I'd otherwise be inclined to put that on my list but for the fact that I'm not sure the blame is entirely Snyder's on that end. Is that what others think? That Gibbs and Cerrato had nothing to do with that?[/quote]

Yes, you are right. The whole coach hiring sequence may have been the biggest fiasco of all. Hiring the assistant coaches before the head coach, therefore limiting who might want the job. That was real intelligent.

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1. Not hiring a legit football GM to run things OR letting VC kind of run things

2. Firing Marty S after giving him full control then trying to take it back

3. Duckett trade (absolutely a fleecing) by Atl

4. Brunell contract and draft pick: Boatload of money, too old, and a pick

5. Jeff George. We had a good thing going in 99 w/ Brad Johnson.

Maybe AA, SS, BLloyd need to be up there too.

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1. Firing Shottenhiemer
2. Hiring Spurrier
3. Re-Hiring Cerrato
4. Trading Champ
5. Some other random act