Ramsey Yap
 

Everyone likes Ramsey,
They say he's no mousey.
His play has been horsey,
But everyone wants his jersey.
I'm not ready for an odyssey,
Nor I'm I ready for a whimsey.
The Redskins need to be mosey,
But it ain't gonna happen with Ramsey
I say give him a kersey,
And be on the bench all cosey.

:rolleyes:

:confused- I'm going to bed and read it again when I wake up LOL

[url]http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/[/url]

Jesus.

When it comes to QBs Redskins fans are the most fickle in football. It makes me sick to my stomach.

How many QBs have we run out of DC?

Ridiculous.

:madani:

[QUOTE=dieselhog]Jesus.

When it comes to QBs Redskins fans are the most fickle in football. It makes me sick to my stomach.

How many QBs have we run out of DC?

Ridiculous.

:madani:[/QUOTE]


Amen!

[QUOTE=dieselhog]Jesus.

When it comes to QBs Redskins fans are the most fickle in football. It makes me sick to my stomach.

How many QBs have we run out of DC?

Ridiculous.

:madani:[/QUOTE]

I don't have the SLIGHTEST clue what you are talking about. The only one I recall being "RUN OUT OF TOWN" was Heath Shuler, and he needed to be. Trent Green and Stan Humphries were both very popular with the fans - they were certainly not run out. Fans at the time were not pleased that management LET THEM GET AWAY. Maybe you mean Norman Snead???? He was sort of run out, but that was ancient history, and we DID get a pretty decent guy in exchange - Sonny.

Maybe you mean Jay Schroeder??? I don't think he was "RUN OUT", but he should have been. Boy, his career was terrific after he left here. Washington fans are pretty sharp in assessing their QB's. Maybe you should not ignore them. You certainly should not ridicule them with absolutely no basis.

As far as Redskin fans, I agree with Joe Gibbs. They are the best and sharpest in the NFL.

Diesel, I just noticed in another thread that you seem to think Brad Johnson was "RUN OUT OF TOWN" by the fans. Unless this is a BizzaroWorld, that is not even close. I did not even mention him in the last post because I could not imagine anyone would put him in that category. That move - getting rid to Brad to make George the starting QB - was one of the most UNPOPULAR moves with the fans that I have ever seen. Don't try to paint the FANS as stupid because of a bad, unpopular move that Snyder made.

Again, REDSKIN fans are not a bunch of idiots that you make them out to be. They are ELITE fans in the NFL, recognized as such across the country.

i kinda agree with diesel. while qbs were not run out of town, redskins fans expect to have a probowl caliber quarterback every year.
every year, the backup was always considered the savior. hell i remember people saying the skins could rebuild around cary conklin.

redskins fans dont give the Starting QB a chance to learn the system. if a qb has a subpar year, we think they cant every play in the system and we cry for a new QB.look a few threads down, you can see some fans are calling for hasselbeck, you got to be F'in kidding me. brunell is still a great Qb, but he is in a new system. ramsey has the potential to be a great QB, but he is in a new system.

we need more patience. QB is a tough position to play. theisman and rypien struggled there first years in joe gibbs offence.

jamf, why do you feel the fans expect a PRO BOWL QB? I sure don't. All I have done is point out some basic, fundamental, serious flaws that Ramsey has had since the day he arrived, and has made absolutely no progress on. This has nothing to do with learning a new system. Even Brunell said yesterday, the weak QB play has nothing to do with learning the new system.

And as far as expectations, I am satisfied that Brunell can do an adequate job this season. I have not called for TH to be installed as the starter. I said he should be #2 behind Brunell at this point, with the total lack of any sign of development in 25 months with Ramsey. Now, if you asked me who should start THIS week if Brunell can't go, I would say go with Ramsey THIS week. WHY?? Because TH has had virtually no time with the #1 offense yet. If he is installed as #2 the next couple weeks, he will get "some" practice time and preparation with them.

We don't need a PRO BOWL QB, especially in a Gibbs offense. But you need a guy than can make good decisions, and NOT take too long to make them. I hope Ramsey tears it up this Monday night (we're almost certain to see more DOWNFIELD attacks than with Brunell), but I really think we will see a high number of sacks again with him in there - our line will again get the blame for his issues. It was amazing how a raw rookie came in last year after the Redskins were breaking all records for getting sacked, and suddenly there were hardly any more sacks. Think about it...

I won't place all the blame on the offensive line for the sacks on Ramsey last year.

Without a doubt some of them were Ramsey's fault, some of them were due to the line and some were due to the flaws in the system.

As far as the reduction in sacks once TH came in, I think a lot of that was due to the scaled down offense he was running. He wasn't required to take the deep 7 step drops that Ramsey was. Spurrier changed things up a bit for TH, because of his inexperience and because of his lack of arm strength.

I don't think it's as simple as saying the change in QB made all the difference in the reduction of sacks.

As for last week, Brunell was getting harrassed just as much as Ramsey was when he came in.

Matty, I know I was not on this site last year, but I was commenting to folks about the slow decision-making and slow release of Ramsey during the season. And regardless of how many 3/5/7-step drops TH was taking, the line very suddenly "looked" better with him in there. And he WAS throwing some deep passes. If you recall, it was not just the 7-step drops or deep pass plays that were a problem when Ramsey was in. But I will agree it was not ALL Ramsey's fault. There WAS some troublesome line play, but it was exacerbated by Ramsey's issues. Bottom line, if I said that was the entire reason, I sure did not mean to. But it was a huge factor, to me.

As far as your comparison of Brunell/Ramsey sacks. Brunell was not sacked one time in week one (and that same TB defense had 4 sacks against a good Seattle team last weekend). In the Giants game, Brunell was in for about 34 minutes of the game - 39 plays - and was sacked for his first time this year. Ramsey was in for 26 minutes (34 plays), and was sacked 3 times. Reminiscent of last season, I am afraid. The coaches last year and this have deflected a lot of the criticism away from their young project QB, and I am glad they have. But they are seeing the same things we are. Ramsey really needs to step up and at least BEGIN correcting his problems if he is going to have a real shot. As I have said before, I would love to see it, but believe it is an extremely longshot deal.

there is a fine line between a QB having courage and staying in the pocket to make the tough throw and a guy that holds on to the ball too long.

ramseys throwing motion and release speed is fine. since it looks fine to me and since i havent heard any so called experts complain about it, it probably is fine. :)

brunell is not going to make excuses. hey, ultimately, they stunk(ramsey, brunell, coles, gardner and portis). no reason to make excuses.

the fans DO expect a probowl caliber QB, even if the guy is a bum, we expect him to play like brett favre. thats what we thought we got with brunell. since joe gibbs last left, the fans have always called for a new QB to start rather than the current starter.

at some point you have to give a guy the opporunity to grow into the system. ramsey is a rookie, this is his first year in a pro style offence. brunell is almost guaranteed to be gone in 2 years. so if we cant win a superbowl now with brunell, we have to go with the young guy.

if we had a young(2nd or 3rd year) brett favre, you would still be calling for hasselbeck. it may not be fun for fans, but at somepoint we are going to have to go through Qb growing pains.

now to hasselbeck. i honestly like the guy. i definately sparked the skins last year. he seems like he's undercontrol in the game. but all this talk about TH is annoying. He will never be a great QB. this stuff reminds me of the gus frerotte talk all over again. but atleast gus had a good arm. TH has a noodle for an arm.

the sacks: TH did get sacked less last year. mostly because of the scaled down playbook. spurrier was actually leaving the FB and RB in the backfield to block. also, he brought in bugel to help with the line.

i hate poetry

Let me ask a different version of the question here:

How many QBs have been "run out of town" in DC who amounted to much of anything after they left?

Answer is not a whole hell of a lot!

Stan Humphries had a couple of nice seasons in San Diego.

Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl with Tampa but it was certainly not because he carried the them to the title.

Trent Green has done well with KC, but he was hardly run out of DC by the fans/media.

So who are all of these marvelous diamonds in the rough that have been in Washington as a QB who went on to great levels of glory somewhere else after the fans and media here made life miserable for them?

Jeff George

Heath Shuler

Gus Frerotte

Gibran Hamdan

Tony Banks

Mark Rypien

Doug Williams

Norm Snead

Babe Laufenberg

Ralph Gugilelmi

[QUOTE=x44x]i hate poetry[/QUOTE]

My poetry brings all the girls to the yard, and they're like "It's better than yours" :smashfrea

Hogskin, Ramsey also came in the game when the team was in catch up mode and they were in obvious passing situations, at that point the running game was out the window and the Giants were coming after the QB hard.

If you check the tape you'll see Ramsey was absolutely swarmed at times and him not getting the ball out quickly enough really wasn't the issue.

LOL, Curmudgeon!!! I had not thought about Babe in AGES. Now there was another guy the fans LOVED!!! But he also just could not get his game up to NFL standards. He (like Humphries, Green, and most of the others there) was certainly NOT runout of town by the fans. Shuler, George and Banks you could make a case for. BIGGGGG loss.

Even little Ralph Guglielmi and Eddie LeBaron were loved by the fans.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Hogskin, Ramsey also came in the game when the team was in catch up mode and they were in obvious passing situations, at that point the running game was out the window and the Giants were coming after the QB hard.

If you check the tape you'll see Ramsey was absolutely swarmed at times and him not getting the ball out quickly enough really wasn't the issue.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree we were in catchup mode. But so were we throughout those 4 games we lost with TH at the helm and not being sacked 3 times a half - and with inferior blocking schemes. And it was not 3 vs. 7 step drops causing it this time. It just seems like there are constantly excuses made for Patrick. At some point he has to stop having excuses and perform. The only other explanation I can think of is that maybe the OL is not motivated to block for him. I HATE that thought, and really do not think that is the case.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]It just seems like there are constantly excuses made for Patrick. At some point he has to stop having excuses and perform.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Hogskin. Those words, -- those two sentences -- sum up better than anything I've read so far regarding the case against Patrick Ramsey. At some point people have to wake up and realize that he may not be the savior we were all hoping for. And I used to be one of them. I've described Ramsey as a 'field general' with a laser cannon for an arm. He hasn't come close to the first description. The second may be accurate, but it doesn't amount for much when those lasers zip right into the hands of opposing defensive backs. Actually, a field general could be accurate if you consider guys like Custer at Little Big Horn, or maybe McClellan at Bull Run. But... I digress.

And can we please dispense with the notion that Steve Spurrier somehow "poisoned his mind" with the Fun-N-Gun? Ramsey had gaffes that no coach, not even Spurrier teaches. With all the preparation he's had with (The Saint) Joe Gibbs, you'd have thought that those are the plays we would never see again from Ramsey. That's telling.

One other thing worth mentioning: on the very last play against the Giants, Ramsey lined up against a 3 man line. Fittingly, the game ended on that play with a fumble that Ramsey recovered as time ran out. It points out a fundamental flaw that he hasn't been able to improve upon no matter who the coach is. I'm talking about pocket presence. He either ignores the heat around him, or doesn't have the ability as a quarterback to detect it. Say what you will about an offensive line that allows pressure from a 3 man defensive line, it's Ramsey's job to escape from that. Not saying he's got to be Steve Young or Randall Cunningham or anything. But for Pete's Sake man, get out of the way! Step up in the pocket! Friggin' Drew Bledsoe has more mobility.

Hopefully Ramsey doesn't turn out to be one of those Hot-Cold type of QBs -- you know, the ones that throw for 300 yards and 4 TDs one week, then turn around and throw 4 picks the next.

But perhaps it's far too early to assume Ramsey's a Hot-Cold QB just yet.

He has to get hot first.

I say he needs the chance to get hot first. I'm not making excuses for him, I just want to see him get an honest shot before we ship him out and label him a bust.

If at this point next year he's still having the same problems, then I think it's time to start thinking that he's not going to be The One. For right now, he just doesn't have enough experience in Gibbs' system and in the league in general to write him off.

As for the fun 'n' gun poisoning him, I think it's a valid arguement that Ramsey has had to 'unlearn' Spurrier's offense, couple that with learning an entirely new one and of course he's struggling a bit.

Ramsey commented in camp that he's had to learn how to throw to spots before the WR makes his break. That's typical pro offense stuff, so it's safe to say that Spurrier's offense wasn't your typical pro offense.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I say he needs the chance to get hot first. I'm not making excuses for him, I just want to see him get an honest shot before we ship him out and label him a bust.

If at this point next year he's still having the same problems, then I think it's time to start thinking that he's not going to be The One. For right now, he just doesn't have enough experience in Gibbs' system and in the league in general to write him off.[/QUOTE]

That sounds totally reasonable. Maybe I am jumping the gun - I get impatient when I don't see improvement in basic technique. The only time I remember giving up on a Redskin then getting surprised was quite a few years back with Barry Wilburn. BURN was the operative term in his first 2 years. He was horrible. I could not believe they were bringing him back. He turned out to have a couple (or few?) real good seasons. But like I said, that is the only one so far - I hope Ramsey makes a second. Nobody could have been pulling for him more in 2002 and the first half of 2003 than I was.

As far as your comments about Spurrier's system, I would agree if it were not such fundamental problems I see in him. But I just don't see how that has any bearing. He doesn't even have to do all that damned checking off at the line on every single play any more. LOL

brad johnson did get a shitty deal as redskins qb,imo.i would have gotten rid of boy george everytime.trent green got caught between mr cooke's death and snyder buying the team did'nt he?as for all of turner's and marty's boys
banks,shuler,frerotte,graham,rosenfels.well enough said.i can never remember gibbs cutting a player,especially if he was stll able to contribute.he traded schroder for jim lachey,i think we got the better end of that deal.i have to say though,as of now or sunday.i have a whole lot more confidence in mark brunnel than i do in ramsey.ramsey looked like a monkey f###**G a football
out there sunday guys,there is no other way to put it.could his head have been any farther up his a**?the whole offense had an awful day,but his was one of legend.he needs to wake up and see that he is in the nfl.
[img]http://www.led-zeppelin.com/gfx/smallBonzo.gif[/img]me

Big Red, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel? LOL

BTW, good pic...

[QUOTE=saden1]Everyone likes Ramsey,
They say he's no mousey.
His play has been horsey,
But everyone wants his jersey.
I'm not ready for an odyssey,
Nor I'm I ready for a whimsey.
The Redskins need to be mosey,
But it ain't gonna happen with Ramsey
I say give him a kersey,
And be on the bench all cosey.[/QUOTE]
Ugg?? :doh:

Fools! All of you!

Have you forgotten that Saden is a [URL=http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/mjack/IMG_0098.jpg]monster[/URL]?

I know better than to question his skillz. No idea what "I say give him a kersey" means but so what. Preach on Saden! :biggthump

kersey = a thrashing by J. Kearse i believe...
either way, i hope saden isn't a rapper, that's not quite mad skillz right there.

You guys never heard of a [URL=http://www.cjdaley.com/overcoats.htm]Kersey Coat[/URL]?

And no, I'm no rapper but I'd like to think I'm a poet with so-so skills :) Maybe I should post some of my other poetry here? Perhaps even start a weekly poetry column about our opponent that week? I'm feeling creative man. Creative I tell you!

Smoot, dog. I'm just a puppy.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Fools! All of you!

Have you forgotten that Saden is a [URL=http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/mjack/IMG_0098.jpg]monster[/URL]?

I know better than to question his skillz. No idea what "I say give him a kersey" means but so what. Preach on Saden! :biggthump[/QUOTE]


Everytime I make a post that I disagree with Saden, this picture comes to mind. He'd whoop my ass lol.

You know I thought it might be some sort of clothing. But no I've never heard of a kersey coat. Guess your rhymes are too smart for us Saden

Did you ever join the semi-pro team?

I went to couple of their practice sessions but it was just too demanding. Not only that but you had to fork up $400 up front and have your own medical insurance. Guess what though, my company's health insurance doesn't cover you if you get hurt while playing in a "professional" league even if semi-professional. All they apparently see is the professional.

[QUOTE=saden1]You guys never heard of a [URL=http://www.cjdaley.com/overcoats.htm]Kersey Coat[/URL]?

And no, I'm no rapper but I'd like to think I'm a poet with so-so skills :) Maybe I should post some of my other poetry here? Perhaps even start a weekly poetry column about our opponent that week? I'm feeling creative man. Creative I tell you!

Smoot, dog. I'm just a puppy.[/QUOTE]

Go for it, Dude!!

Brad Johnson was booed in his second season. He was torn up on call-ins and he couldn't wait to leave DC.

Gus was hero and flavour of the month and then shredded.

Green left because the new regime wasn't in place to work out his contract.

The fact is, that we have a QB controversy virtually every single season.

It stinks.

This team needs to get behind Ramsey. If they really feel he is the QB of the future then back him up (like everyone was happy to do for a while).

All this talk of trading him is crap.

[QUOTE=dieselhog]Brad Johnson was booed in his second season. He was torn up on call-ins and he couldn't wait to leave DC.[/QUOTE]

I never saw Brad get booed. If that is true it really sucks. Anyone who boos a Redskin at home is NOT a Redskin fan. There have been some guys on this site that say they boo Redskins if they feel they are not performing the way they should - they think that is OK. That is complete B.S. They should just keep their sorry asses home and boo at the TV where they don't do any damage. (Also, I reject that Brad would be here if he wanted to be - He is gone because Boy GEORGE was the guy management wanted for our QB).

That is not the same as recognizing bad play. If that did not happen, we might now have Heath Shuler and Gus Frerotte as our QB's, throwing to Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook, with Westbrook beating the hell out of our RB, Timmy Smith, at the practices. Thank God, SOME people recognize guys that are unable to correct basics.

You wanna talk about crap?? THAT would be crap.

gus isnt that bad, he just did something really stupid...

[QUOTE=That Guy]gus isnt that bad, he just did something really stupid...[/QUOTE]

Gus seemed like a really good GUY, so he has had a lot of people pulling for him over the years. But he is not that good a QB. He has made the rounds, and is with his 5th team. He has gotten at least 2 starts with every team he has been with since the Redskins. He got the starts due to injury, and was not able to keep the starting job, even though 2 of the teams were having a QB crisis when he was there. He is a pretty good backup, but not really NFL starter material. His QB rating is not horrible (76 lifetime), but he just can't seem to be consistent as a starter.

He's a pretty decent backup, but then again how hard is it to throw jump balls to Moss?

Hogskin is right, the main problem with Gus is his lack of consistency.

yeah i was just thinking of last year, but he did have moss to make him look better...

When I first started working in tv sports was just around the time that Gus was ending his run here in DC. The general feeling inside Redskins Park was that Gus wasn't the brightest bulb in the chandelier. Maybe it was Norv's playbook in particular, but GF was never able to fully grasp it so the coaching staff had to drastically simplify the playbook for him. That's what I was told at least.

But yes, Moss does help :biggthump