National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[url=http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-9-192/A-high-impact-NFL-East-draft-column.html]A high-impact NFC East draft column - NFC East - ESPN[/url]

Usually, I'm not one to publicly harp on what the national media thinks. Admittedly, privately, I can be very critical of poorly constructed opinions. But, I think there's a double standard going on.

Jeremy Maclin was a player both teams were targeting, and the Eagles were able to use information they tracked down about teams, potentially the Giants, trading up to 20 to get Maclin, so they were able to get up to 19.

Here's what I don't understand: either you like the Maclin move if you don't. If you think he was a top ten player, then the Eagles draft looks great. A top ten player and a first round RB on the first day is a great haul indeed -- but then what do you say about the Giants?

If you think Maclin was a top player, then logic dicatates that the Giants lost out at a chance at an elite player at a need position because they weren't willing to give up a third round pick instead of a fourth, essentially, to get up to pick 18 or so. And no matter how you look at it, the Giants ended up missing on the 2nd WR on their board for their 4th or 5th. That's a really big downgrade no matter what position they drafted at. When it's a position with a 40% first round washout rate, that's really, really bad.

And all of that follows from the logic that Maclin is going to be a great player. In reality, I think he was a very overvalued receiver who will be stuck behind much better players in Philly. I have no problem tipping my cap to two teams who appear to have a great haul in the second round, but after you mix up the first round as the Giants, and debatably the Eagles did, your draft doesn't get an A+. Sorry, that's not how it works.

The Redskins were the only team to get an immediate impact player in this draft (well, LeSean McCoy, probably). And I think that's going largely unnoticed because of, well, because of I'm not really sure.

End rant.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

They have a different rating system for the Redskins! Because Synder spends alot of his money on players and his football team.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Both had a good draft.

Philly: Maclin, McCoy (who is going to be good), Harris (all acc corner)

NYG: Nicks, Sintim (who will also be a solid to very good pro), Beatty (an OL 6'6" who slipped, and Barden (6'6" WR who scored a crapload of TD's in college)

Both have multiple impact and role players. The Eagles also got return specialist Ellis Hobbs in a trade, not bad.

So, I can understand the love a little. We got 1 impact player and a hopeful.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

And after all that said, draft evaluations don't amount to a hill of beans at this point. Let's see how it plays out on the field.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553618]And after all that said, draft evaluations don't amount to a hill of beans at this point. Let's see how it plays out on the field.[/quote]

Exactly.

The real grade comes 2-3 years down the road.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Yeah it is what it is. It's a educated guess.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

I look more at it as far as what they did with what they had/the positions that they drafted at; not so much what they could've done different as far as draft order or whatever.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553607][url=http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-9-192/A-high-impact-NFL-East-draft-column.html]A high-impact NFC East draft column - NFC East - ESPN[/url]

Usually, I'm not one to publicly harp on what the national media thinks. Admittedly, privately, I can be very critical of poorly constructed opinions. But, I think there's a double standard going on.

Jeremy Maclin was a player both teams were targeting, and the Eagles were able to use information they tracked down about teams, potentially the Giants, trading up to 20 to get Maclin, so they were able to get up to 19.

Here's what I don't understand: either you like the Maclin move if you don't. If you think he was a top ten player, then the Eagles draft looks great. A top ten player and a first round RB on the first day is a great haul indeed -- but then what do you say about the Giants?

If you think Maclin was a top player, then logic dicatates that the Giants lost out at a chance at an elite player at a need position because they weren't willing to give up a third round pick instead of a fourth, essentially, to get up to pick 18 or so. And no matter how you look at it, the Giants ended up missing on the 2nd WR on their board for their 4th or 5th. That's a really big downgrade no matter what position they drafted at. When it's a position with a 40% first round washout rate, that's really, really bad.

And all of that follows from the logic that Maclin is going to be a great player. In reality, I think he was a very overvalued receiver who will be stuck behind much better players in Philly. I have no problem tipping my cap to two teams who appear to have a great haul in the second round, but after you mix up the first round as the Giants, and debatably the Eagles did, your draft doesn't get an A+. Sorry, that's not how it works.

The Redskins were the only team to get an immediate impact player in this draft (well, LeSean McCoy, probably). And I think that's going largely unnoticed because of, well, because of I'm not really sure.

End rant.[/quote]

Tripp, did you see this part of the story?

[quote]Something tells me you've just about had it with draft grades, so let's go in a different direction today. I've spent the last 24 hours on the phone with national draft gurus, college scouting directors and two assistant coaches in an effort to determine which draft class in the Beast will make the most immediate impact.

I avoided talking to NFC East scouts, in part, because it's rare to find a scout who says something like, "Well, we pretty much blew it" four days after the draft. The consensus is that the Eagles scored highest on in our High-Impact rankings. I granted our experts anonymity in exchange for their honesty -- and job security. They were asked to provide a number between 1-10, with 1 representing an "incredibly low impact" and 10 being a "stunningly high impact."[/quote]

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553618]And after all that said, draft evaluations don't amount to a hill of beans at this point. Let's see how it plays out on the field.[/quote]

There it is. It's all speculation at this point.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553618]And after all that said, draft evaluations don't amount to a hill of beans at this point. Let's see how it plays out on the field.[/quote]

Sanity.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

I'd rather see an overall 'offseason' ranking.. I'm pretty sure it would look like:
1. Eagles
2. Redskins
3. Giants
4. Cowboys

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Draft grades don't mean jack. Lets look at a body of work in the NFL (College is over, whole different ballgame) at bare minimum the end of the season before any grades are handed out.

It's a moot point and waste of time to grade any team or the player who's never played one single snap at this level, it's nothing more than a guess. Nothing more.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;553631]Tripp, did you see this part of the story?[/quote]Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

I'll reiterate that I have no problem with the scouts preferring one draft over another, but I'm starting to think that the qualifications for having a good draft is more who you are than what you did.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553618]And after all that said, draft evaluations don't amount to a hill of beans at this point. Let's see how it plays out on the field.[/quote]



Folks, we have a winner!:food-smil

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553718]I'll reiterate that I have no problem with the scouts preferring one draft over another, but I'm starting to think that the qualifications for having a good draft is more who you are than what you did.[/quote]

Teams prove themselves on the field ,nothing else matters.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

i think i've said this before but if you google any of these guys none has ever worked for a pro or college team.they grab the same national storylines and run with it .just lazy in my opinion .as i sit here i wonder how fast it would change if snyder answered these blowhards phone call and yucked it up.it's really sad i live up hear near philly these local guys luagh at mcnabbs joke like they have too, like laughing at your bosses jokes

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553716]Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), [B]but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.[/B]

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.[/quote]

So true.. If we had made the same deal for Peters the Eagles had made the media would be all over us for mortgaging our future for another team's disgruntled player and overpaying to extend a 28 year old tackle who gave up 11.5 sacks.

I can't believe that more isn't being made about the Giants going into the preseason with a receiving group with a total of 145 receptions from their top 4 returning pass catchers (Smith-57, Hixon-43, Boss-33, Moss-12) and 11 touchdowns from them.

While what matters is what happens on the field it is annoying to be constantly beaten up in the media.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Uhm, have you all not learned it's in vogue to hate the Skins and all they do?

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

I also think we should keep in mind that one Albert Haynesworth will make more impact by himself this season than will any other NFC East team's entire draft.

These scouts need to earn a living, so they analyze and analyze and over-analyze. Doesn't mean we need to get caught up in it.

Our DL will be nasty. Let's see how Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook like running against us this year.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Why should anyone care what the media thinks about anybody's draft? You cannot fully evaluate the impact of a draft class for at least 2-3 years. As little as we got out of our 2008 class, I'm still very optimistic that it will look like a strong draft after next season.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

What we need to do is win the Big Dance. Then everyone will be lovin' on us.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553774]I also think we should keep in mind that one Albert Haynesworth will make more impact by himself this season than will any other NFC East team's entire draft.

These scouts need to earn a living, so they analyze and analyze and over-analyze. Doesn't mean we need to get caught up in it.

Our DL will be nasty. Let's see how Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook like running against us this year.[/quote]

Agreed, Two major deficiancies we had on defense was DT and DE. AH fills the DT spot and #13 Orakpo fills the DE spot as depth. This alone will create sacks and horribly thrown balls by QB creating interceptions by Hall and Rogers.

Offensively we get back Jansen, and Heyer healthy and picked up Williams who I honestly think Buges will mold a monster. If he gets down to the 360 the team wants him at I see him as the RT if he simply gets close to that weight why not move him to Guard or try him at Center. Our WR's will be in better shape and know more of the offense. We have an MVP/SB RB in Mason. lol. Just kidding ....had to get your Goat. lol. No pun intended.

We might not have had a guzillion picks to make the pundits say the Skins had the best draft but I think the team has done an admiral job at getting depth or starting quality players.


[B]Edit:[/B] I didn't mean to say Orakpo is only depth. He fills a spot so we have enough players not to worry about the position. I think he starts this season.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Lotus;553780]What we need to do is win the Big Dance. Then everyone will be lovin' on us.[/quote]
Very true . Lets see how amazing everyone thinks the iggles and g-ants look when there rookie wr's run the wrong routes and lil Eli is crying from all the hard knocks that he will take from , big AL , Orakpo and ,,, Landry who will have 5-6 sacks this year .

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

I think it's hilarious that they gave the Cowboys' draft a higher rating than ours. What a joke that is.

I spent Monday and Tuesday listening to Kiper and McShay talk about what a flop Dallas' draft was. Confused.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553716]Yeah, I read through the whole thing, which is why I got that "wow, really?!" complex goin on. But this is hardly at all about the Mosley article. More about the entire media reaction to this draft, defying all logic with regards to the NFC East, which, collectively, didn't even do that well.

I thought we had the best draft by far (and fairly mediocre overall), but the consensus seems to be that the Giants and Eagles can't do anything wrong.

This thread is more shock/knee jerk reaction than anything.[/quote]

Ok then, I just wondered if you thought these were Mosley's opinions or understood that he had pooled the opinions of various scouts and coaches (so this article isn't really about what the national media thinks)

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GMScud;553788]I think it's hilarious that they gave the Cowboys' draft a higher rating than ours. What a joke that is.

I spent Monday and Tuesday listening to Kiper and McShay talk about what a flop Dallas' draft was. Confused.[/quote]
Your not as confused as J. Jones will be after we gash his defense for 400 yds in route to a 27 - 10 thumping !

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553607][URL="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-9-192/A-high-impact-NFL-East-draft-column.html"]A high-impact NFC East draft column - NFC East - ESPN[/URL]

Usually, I'm not one to publicly harp on what the national media thinks. Admittedly, privately, I can be very critical of poorly constructed opinions. But, I think there's a double standard going on.

Jeremy Maclin was a player both teams were targeting, and the Eagles were able to use information they tracked down about teams, potentially the Giants, trading up to 20 to get Maclin, so they were able to get up to 19.

Here's what I don't understand: either you like the Maclin move if you don't. If you think he was a top ten player, then the Eagles draft looks great. A top ten player and a first round RB on the first day is a great haul indeed -- but then what do you say about the Giants?

If you think Maclin was a top player, then logic dicatates that the Giants lost out at a chance at an elite player at a need position because they weren't willing to give up a third round pick instead of a fourth, essentially, to get up to pick 18 or so. And no matter how you look at it, the Giants ended up missing on the 2nd WR on their board for their 4th or 5th. That's a really big downgrade no matter what position they drafted at. When it's a position with a 40% first round washout rate, that's really, really bad.

And all of that follows from the logic that Maclin is going to be a great player. In reality, I think he was a very overvalued receiver who will be stuck behind much better players in Philly. I have no problem tipping my cap to two teams who appear to have a great haul in the second round, but after you mix up the first round as the Giants, and debatably the Eagles did, your draft doesn't get an A+. Sorry, that's not how it works.

The Redskins were the only team to get an immediate impact player in this draft (well, LeSean McCoy, probably). And I think that's going largely unnoticed because of, well, because of I'm not really sure.

End rant.[/quote]


One of your best rants Tripp I think.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

All these draft evaluations represent is the degree to which teams maximize the value of their picks given the draft board of general consensus. If a player is considered the 20th best player in the draft and you get him at 25, then it's a great pick. If you get him at 7 it's a terrible pick.

Given this framework both teams did fine, although that obviously doesn't mean a thing moving forward. It's like evaluating an incoming college student based on his or her high school grades and SAT scores, when what really matters is his or her performance over the subsequent four years.

But I can't complain because I watch every minute of the draft every year, read every mock, and have a blast doing it.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GMScud;553788]I think it's hilarious that they gave the Cowboys' draft a higher rating than ours. What a joke that is.

I spent Monday and Tuesday listening to Kiper and McShay talk about what a flop Dallas' draft was. Confused.[/quote]

I saw the NFC East teams draft grade and it looked liked this..
NFC East
1.Eagles A-
2.Giants A-
3.Redskins C+
4.Dallas D

Not quite sure if it was a A- or A for Eagles and Giants

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=KingRaloIV;553613]They have a different rating system for the Redskins! Because Synder spends alot of his money on players and his football team.[/quote]

ESPN has 1 annoucer who was a Redskins O-Line Mark Schelerath (aka Stink)
has nothing ever nice to say about the Redskins. He is always bashing the Redskins front office. He is a Hater just listen to him when the Skins come up.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Paintrain;553753]So true.. If we had made the same deal for Peters the Eagles had made the media would be all over us for mortgaging our future for another team's disgruntled player and overpaying to extend a 28 year old tackle who gave up 11.5 sacks.

I can't believe that more isn't being made about the Giants going into the preseason with a receiving group with a total of 145 receptions from their top 4 returning pass catchers (Smith-57, Hixon-43, Boss-33, Moss-12) and 11 touchdowns from them.

While what matters is what happens on the field it is annoying to be constantly beaten up in the media.[/quote]


I was thinking the same thing about Philly signing Jason Peters, if we would have signed him it would have been a bad signing. Any time we sign a free agent it we trying to buy a super bowl. When we start winning games and the division then they can eat their words.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Eagles did well always do better then us. Since Lurie came into Philly 10 years ago they have handed us and danny our tails. Over the past 10 years they are a winning succesful franchise, we on the other hand are losers thanks to danny and vinny, we have a winning stat of 48 percent

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Chief PA;553848]Eagles did well always do better then us. Since Lurie came into Philly 10 years ago they have handed us and danny our tails. Over the past 10 years they are a winning succesful franchise, we on the other hand are losers thanks to danny and vinny, we have a winning stat of 48 percent[/quote]

didn't we beat them both times this year?
Philly has had a successful run, mainly because of the trio of Reid, McNabb, and Westbrook. We will see how their draft turns out, but their draft history is not nearly as good as ours, particularly over the last 3-4 years, especially considering how many more picks they have taken then us.
(the pro-football reference under history lets you search the past drafts if you want to compare)

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Chief PA;553848]Eagles did well always do better then us. Since Lurie came into Philly 10 years ago they have handed us and danny our tails. Over the past 10 years they are a winning succesful franchise, we on the other hand are losers thanks to danny and vinny, [B]we have a winning stat of 48 percent[/B][/quote]Thats the second time you have mentioned that. If fact, most of your 8 posts are dedicated to your dislike of the skins front office. Are you even a skins fan of a person who loves to hate on the redskins? Wait a minute, I know you,..... JLC?

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

Isn't Philly the [B]ONLY[/B] team in the NFC East who [B]HASN"T[/B] won a Super Bowl? Not in the last 10 years...Not in the last 20 years.....Not[B] EVER[/B]?

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

The draft is a shit throwing contest. And the Cowboys and Redskins didn't have that many big pieces of shit to throw at the wall.

Advantage: NY and Filly

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=Schneed10;553774]I also think we should keep in mind that one Albert Haynesworth will make more impact by himself this season than will any other NFC East team's entire draft.
.[/quote]


Why ,will he be playing both ways?

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;553852]Thats the second time you have mentioned that. If fact, most of your 8 posts are dedicated to your dislike of the skins front office. Are you even a skins fan of a person who loves to hate on the redskins? Wait a minute, I know you,..... JLC?[/quote]



I am a die hard skins fan and am mad as hell at how danny runs (has ruined) this once proud franchise.

Re: National love for Giants, Eagles' drafts out of control?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;553607][url=http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-9-192/A-high-impact-NFL-East-draft-column.html]A high-impact NFC East draft column - NFC East - ESPN[/url]

Usually, I'm not one to publicly harp on what the national media thinks. Admittedly, privately, I can be very critical of poorly constructed opinions. But, I think there's a double standard going on.

Jeremy Maclin was a player both teams were targeting, and the Eagles were able to use information they tracked down about teams, potentially the Giants, trading up to 20 to get Maclin, so they were able to get up to 19.

Here's what I don't understand: either you like the Maclin move if you don't. If you think he was a top ten player, then the Eagles draft looks great. A top ten player and a first round RB on the first day is a great haul indeed -- but then what do you say about the Giants?

If you think Maclin was a top player, then logic dicatates that the Giants lost out at a chance at an elite player at a need position because they weren't willing to give up a third round pick instead of a fourth, essentially, to get up to pick 18 or so. And no matter how you look at it, the Giants ended up missing on the 2nd WR on their board for their 4th or 5th. That's a really big downgrade no matter what position they drafted at. When it's a position with a 40% first round washout rate, that's really, really bad.

And all of that follows from the logic that Maclin is going to be a great player. In reality, I think he was a very overvalued receiver who will be stuck behind much better players in Philly. I have no problem tipping my cap to two teams who appear to have a great haul in the second round, but after you mix up the first round as the Giants, and debatably the Eagles did, your draft doesn't get an A+. Sorry, that's not how it works.

The Redskins were the only team to get an immediate impact player in this draft (well, LeSean McCoy, probably). And I think that's going largely unnoticed because of, well, because of I'm not really sure.

End rant.[/quote]

Anyone who has been a Redskin's fan for any amount of time has to know this. The Cowboys (for some reason) are "America's Team" and in the eyes of ESPN, can do no wrong. The Giants are harped as the "NY football Giants" and are the historic, vintage team team of the New England area. The Eagles are the team that locals love to hate and are a constant irony to the "City of Brotherly love". Face it, the Redskins are the red-headed (or burgundy-headed if you will) step child of the NFC East. We can do no right. We have a young, rich owner who loves to trade draft picks. There is absolutely nothing we can do right. We probably drafted the best speed DE in the NCAA and because of the trade speculations for Sanchez, our best draft grade has been a C+. We are the epitome of "put up, or shut up" and until we win a super bowl; that's right, super bowl because we have won several playoff games in the past ten years, we are going to be the team that no one will like, and will constantly be the "oh God, what did they do now?" team no matter how many ex-cons the Cowboys sign. The quicker people accept this, the less painful it will be.