Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Interesting...

[url=http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Mancow-Takes-on-Waterboarding-and-Loses.html]Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture | NBC Chicago[/url]

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

I think at this point people aught to know it's torture. My co-worker recently stated his position eloquently..."I know it's torture and I don't care if we torture the SOBs. I'm all for torture."

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559634]I think at this point people aught to know it's torture. My co-worker recently stated his position eloquently..."I know it's torture and I don't care if we torture the SOBs. I'm all for torture."[/quote]

Reflects my feelings to a T. Hell, pull their fingernails off one by one for all I care. Do whatever it takes.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Schneed10;559636]Reflects my feelings to a T. Hell, pull their fingernails off one by one for all I care. Do whatever it takes.[/quote]
Well we pretty much agree on this.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

I don't know that I agree...there's a reason we don't torture. Seems pretty slippery to me that it's ok to torture in some situations but not others.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=FRPLG;559640]I don't know that I agree...there's a reason we don't torture. Seems pretty slippery to me that it's ok to torture in some situations but not others.[/quote]
Well when you start flying planes into buildings killing as many US citizens as you can then all bets are off.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Water-boarding isn't torture. Give me a chainsaw and a blow-torch and I'll show you torture.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

I'm with Schneed and Al Gore (while he was VP, see below), no problem with waterboarding these animals. Let's put this into perspective.

Only three high-level Al Qeada operatives were waterboarded:
KSM - Planner of 9/11, involved in WTC bombing, Bali nightblub bombings, beheaded Daniel Pearl
Abu Zubaydah - East African embassy bombings # 2 in Al Qeada, 25% of HUMINT obtained on Al Qeada come through or becasue of interrogation of Zubaydah
Al-Nashiri - Responsible for bombing of USS Cole, Limburg tanker bombing, Chief of Operations for Arabian Peninsula for Al Qeada

These pieces of s**t would torture any of us in the worst way, rape our wives/girlfriends, and then kill us all and believe their god will reward them for it. They declared war on us. Destroying Al Qeada and saving lives in the U.S. and abroad takes any precedence over a waterboarding/torture debate.

These are not enemy soldiers for another country. They are not covered under the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists, they exist to kill anyone who opposes them or their agenda. Do you think for one second if they had the ability to nuke the U.S. that they wouldn't? Do you think for a second if they had the power to take over/destroy the U.S. they wouldn't.

Not a lot I agreed with Clinton and Gore on, but Gore certainly had this one correct.

According to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_administration"][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton administration[/COLOR][/URL] official [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke"][COLOR=#0000ff]Richard Clarke[/COLOR][/URL]:
“[SIZE=2]'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Cutler"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Lloyd Cutler[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2], demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] had seemed to be siding with Cutler until [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Al Gore[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]South Africa[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2]. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. [B]Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'"[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0000ff][20][/COLOR][/URL][/SIZE]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition"]Extraordinary rendition by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Clinton authorized this:
Talaat Fouad Qassem, 38, a known leader of the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group), an Egyptian extremist organization, is arrested and detained in Croatia as he travels to Bosnia from Denmark, where he has been been living after being granted political asylum. He is suspected of clandestine support of terrorist operations, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a022693wtcbombing"][COLOR=#0000ff]February 26, 1993[/COLOR][/URL]). He also allegedly led mujaheddin efforts in Bosnia since 1990 (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a90qassembosnia"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990[/COLOR][/URL]). In a joint operation, he is arrested by Croatian intelligence agents and handed over to the CIA. Qassem is then interrogated by US officials aboard a US ship off the Croatian coast in the Adriatic Sea and sent to Egypt, which has a rendition agreement with the US (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a95renditionegypt"][COLOR=#0000ff]Summer 1995[/COLOR][/URL]). An Egyptian military tribunal has already sentenced him to death in absentia, and he is executed soon after he arrives.

and this:
Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
Mancow is American.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
Our special forces already go through this during SERE training.

Last I checked, Americans aren't beheading people and executing terrorist attacks on innocent people throughout the world.

EDIT: The last American terrorist we had (OK City, McVeigh) was executed. Which I have no problem with.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559663]I'm with Schneed and Al Gore (while he was VP, see below), no problem with waterboarding these animals. Let's put this into perspective.

Only three high-level Al Qeada operatives were waterboarded:
KSM - Planner of 9/11, involved in WTC bombing, Bali nightblub bombings, beheaded Daniel Pearl
Abu Zubaydah - East African embassy bombings # 2 in Al Qeada, 25% of HUMINT obtained on Al Qeada come through or becasue of interrogation of Zubaydah
Al-Nashiri - Responsible for bombing of USS Cole, Limburg tanker bombing, Chief of Operations for Arabian Peninsula for Al Qeada

[B]These pieces of s**t would torture any of us in the worst way, rape our wives/girlfriends, and then kill us all[/B] and believe their god will reward them for it. They declared war on us. Destroying Al Qeada and saving lives in the U.S. and abroad takes any precedence over a waterboarding/torture debate.

These are not enemy soldiers for another country. They are not covered under the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists, they exist to kill anyone who opposes them or their agenda. Do you think for one second if they had the ability to nuke the U.S. that they wouldn't? Do you think for a second if they had the power to take over/destroy the U.S. they wouldn't.

Not a lot I agreed with Clinton and Gore on, but Gore certainly had this one correct.

According to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_administration"][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton administration[/COLOR][/URL] official [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke"][COLOR=#0000ff]Richard Clarke[/COLOR][/URL]:
“[SIZE=2]'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Cutler"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Lloyd Cutler[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2], demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Clinton[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] had seemed to be siding with Cutler until [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Al Gore[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2] belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from [/SIZE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]South Africa[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=2]. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. [B]Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'"[/B] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#cite_note-19"][COLOR=#0000ff][20][/COLOR][/URL][/SIZE]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition"]Extraordinary rendition by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Clinton authorized this:
Talaat Fouad Qassem, 38, a known leader of the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group), an Egyptian extremist organization, is arrested and detained in Croatia as he travels to Bosnia from Denmark, where he has been been living after being granted political asylum. He is suspected of clandestine support of terrorist operations, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a022693wtcbombing"][COLOR=#0000ff]February 26, 1993[/COLOR][/URL]). He also allegedly led mujaheddin efforts in Bosnia since 1990 (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a90qassembosnia"][COLOR=#0000ff]1990[/COLOR][/URL]). In a joint operation, he is arrested by Croatian intelligence agents and handed over to the CIA. Qassem is then interrogated by US officials aboard a US ship off the Croatian coast in the Adriatic Sea and sent to Egypt, which has a rendition agreement with the US (see [URL="http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abuses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_elsewhere_856#a95renditionegypt"][COLOR=#0000ff]Summer 1995[/COLOR][/URL]). An Egyptian military tribunal has already sentenced him to death in absentia, and he is executed soon after he arrives.

and this:
Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.[/quote]

[URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0"]Who are we talking about[/URL]?

[quote]...In a March 2006 attack in Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, Green and three other soldiers went to the home of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi. Green shot and killed the teen's mother, father and sister, then became the third soldier to rape the girl before killing her.[/quote]


...and garbing someone to bring them to justice (trying them in the court of law) is not the same as garbing them and torturing them.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Violence perpetuates violence.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]
What's worse:

1) killing 3 Somali teenagers who haven't actually killed anyone.

or

2) waterboarding 3 adult terrorists who have murdered many.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559671][URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0"]Who are we talking about[/URL]?[/quote]
What are you trying to say?

EDIT: just saw the bolded part, I get it. Question for you, if you could've waterboarded one of the 4 soldiers before the rape and murder of the Iraqi family and gained the intel to stop the murders, would you waterboard to get the info?

My opinion: If the facts stated are true & correct, that this ex-soldier and the other soldiers raped and murdered this girl and her family, they deserve the death penalty.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Dang I just gained a little respect for Gore:

Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'" [20]

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Daseal;559684]Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?[/quote]

I will answer this way, in a perfect world no one would torture, and/or be tortured. However, lets not play dumb a** and say Americans are NOT tortured. We have witnessed our soldiers dragged and beaten, civilians heads chopped off on the internet, planes flown directly into a civilian target. If I thought for half a second that us not torturing these agents would prevent these types of acts from re-occurring, then do not use these techniques. BUT our enemies will torture regardless of our actions, they will commit atrocities against civilians regardless of our civility, they will seek out targets that will cause mass casualties regardless of our attempts to use pinpoint accuracy and minimize civilian casualties.
Bottomline, no I do not want United States citizens tortured, but I recognize our enemies regardless of my desires, and so if we need to use brutal tactics on the very worst of the worst, then so be it

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Daseal;559684]Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?[/quote]
Our special forces are Americans. Our special forces go through waterboarding. Yes, I am OK with that. They have to be prepared for what they will face from our enemies if captured. It sucks that there are bad people in the world, but that's how it is.

I'm not quite sure what corner you're trying to paint me into here. Of course I'm not OK with Americans being tortured.

If there are Americans who decide to become terrorists and go out an kill innocent people in say, India, Poland, England, etc. and they get caught and their government feels that they need to waterboard them to get information to save the lives of their own citizens then I'm OK with that country doing what it needs to do to protect itself.

American soldiers are covered by the Geneva Convention, so if captured then they shouldn't be tortured under any circumstance. If we were at war with Russia or China and we caught some of their uniformed soldiers on the battlefield I would NOT be OK with torturing them.

Did I miss a specific scenario?

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;559672]Violence perpetuates violence.[/quote]

Sometimes violence ENDS violence. If someone is standing there hitting you KNOWING you won't hit back, diplomacy won't end it. But if you suddenly stand up & punch the guy in the face a few times, he'll stop.

Diplomacy can go only so far. With some people & certain TYPES of people, violence is the only thing that works.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559675]What are you trying to say?

EDIT: just saw the bolded part, I get it. Question for you, if you could've waterboarded one of the 4 soldiers before the rape and murder of the Iraqi family and gained the intel to stop the murders, would you waterboard to get the info?

My opinion: If the facts stated are true & correct, that this ex-soldier and the other soldiers raped and murdered this girl and her family, they deserve the death penalty.[/quote]

No I wouldn't resort to torture because I wouldn't assume torture was the only viable means of archiving the desired result. Furthermore, your argument for torture in this instance would pave the way for using torture in any scenario where someone's life is in danger.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Daseal;559684]Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?[/quote]
If there were Americans forming groups and running planes into another countries buildings like what happened here then at that point they are on their own. See I just don't see this as a coventional type war with another country so my views are different.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559688]Did I miss a specific scenario?[/quote]

Personally, I have seen youtube videos of Americans being tortured AND murdered (I can recall one specific journalist[?] I believe where we watched these animals saw his head off with a machete). I think we should be just as willing to go as far as them to stop the terrorism as they are to create it.

It seems to me that the more we try to "abide" by rules that only exist to make THEIR lives easier for committing these crimes, the more we play into their hands.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Missin21;559693]Personally, I have seen youtube videos of Americans being tortured AND murdered (I can recall one specific journalist[?] I believe where we watched these animals saw his head off with a machete). I think we should be just as willing to go as far as them to stop the terrorism as they are to create it.

It seems to me that the more we try to "abide" by rules that only exist to make THEIR lives easier for committing these crimes, the more we play into their hands.[/quote]

I'm not willing to go that far.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

Top Al-Qaida suspect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who has been held at Guantanamo Bay since 2003, said he beheaded American journalist Daniel Pearl in Pakistan in 2002, according to the transcript of a hearing at the Guantanamo prison camp released Thursday.

"I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew Daniel Pearl," Mohammed said through a personal representative, according to the transcript released by the Pentagon.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=firstdown;559696]I'm not willing to go that far.[/quote]

I am. And then some.

I say go after their families. They are born to die for their cause & take as many Americans & Jews with them as possible, but they know in doing so, their families will be protected & provided for by their governments. You take that protection away, you take away that motivation.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Missin21;559699]I am. And then some.

I say [B]go after their families[/B]. They are born to die for their cause & take as many Americans & Jews with them as possible, but they know in doing so, their families will be protected & provided for by their governments. You take that protection away, you take away that motivation.[/quote]

That's some evil genius shit right there...good stuff man...keep the ideas flowing.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559691]No I wouldn't resort to torture because I wouldn't assume torture was the only viable means of archiving the desired result. Furthermore, your argument for torture in this instance would pave the way for using torture in any scenario where someone's life is in danger.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559691]No I wouldn't resort to torture because I wouldn't assume torture was the only viable means of archiving the desired result. Furthermore, your argument for torture in this instance would pave the way for using torture in any scenario where someone's life is in danger.[/quote]
If Obama released the means of torture then why if it didn't work did he not release the results from what YOU call torture?

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=dmek25;559656]what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?[/quote]

I would prefer it. When I take them apart with a chainsaw I could understand their screams for mercy. :FIREdevil

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Missin21;559699]I am. And then some.

I say go after their families. They are born to die for their cause & take as many Americans & Jews with them as possible, but they know in doing so, their families will be protected & provided for by their governments. You take that protection away, you take away that motivation.[/quote]

That's why the USSR never had a problem with terrorist. The KGB kidnapped their families and sent back videos with ears and toes.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=firstdown;559726]If Obama released the means of torture then why if it didn't work did he not release the results from what YOU call torture?[/quote]

Are you suggesting the only reason the result weren't released is because they worked? A) Obama didn't release the means of torture, everyone already knew we were water-boarding so the release of the memos is immaterial and B) Obama professed in one of his speeches that torture might have worked though there are alternatives to torturing people to get information.

[YT]NLXVCZgF3_8[/YT]

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;559741]That's why the USSR never had a problem with terrorist. The KGB kidnapped their families and sent back videos with ears and toes.[/quote]

LOL...Afghani rebels and Chechen rebels anyone? Notice how we call them rebels here in the states and not terrorists.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559748]LOL...Afghani rebels and Chechen rebels anyone? Notice how we call them rebels here in the states and not terrorists.[/quote]
Trample is right, You are wrong. imagine that!!!!
Rebels fight in their homeland against a govt and mostly as an organized resistance army. Terrorists attack innocents, usually, in distant lands. Trample said the USSR, not Russia, and there was/is a distinct difference. Afghani rebels fought the Soviets, in Afghanistan, successfully. But you never saw any successful terrorist attacks in Moscow/St. Petersburg. Your Chechen rebels comment just doesn't really apply to the USSR.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559748]LOL...Afghani rebels and Chechen rebels anyone? Notice how we call them rebels here in the states and not terrorists.[/quote]

Speak for yourself. I don't call them rebels. You must be referring to the liberal media. I was thinking more along the lines of the PLO, Hezzbollah, and Islamic Jihad. They tried to get ballsey with the Russians but the KGB wasn't having it. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan and Chechnya is part of Russia. I would have just nuked Afghanistan. Why waste time with torturing them when you can microwave every since soul in less than a second?

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;559755]Trample is right, You are wrong. imagine that!!!!
Rebels fight in their homeland against a govt and mostly as an organized resistance army. Terrorists attack innocents, usually, in distant lands. Trample said the USSR, not Russia, and there was/is a distinct difference. Afghani rebels fought the Soviets, in Afghanistan, successfully. But you never saw any successful terrorist attacks in Moscow/St. Petersburg. Your Chechen rebels comment just doesn't really apply to the USSR.[/quote]

This has got to be the most contorted argument ever. I guess Iraqis can't be terrorists. One man's terrorists are another's rebels and according to the USSR Afghani rebels [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan#1980s:_Insurrection"]were terrorists[/URL] (even by our standards they are terrorists):

[quote]The mujahideen leaders paid great attention to sabotage operations. The more common types of sabotage included damaging power lines, knocking out pipelines, radio stations, blowing up government office buildings, air terminals, hotels, cinemas, and so on. From 1985 through 1987, an average of over 600 "terrorist acts" a year were recorded. In the border region with Pakistan, the mujahideen would often launch 800 rockets per day. Between April 1985 and January 1987, they carried out over 23,500 shelling attacks on government targets. The mujahideen surveyed firing positions that they normally located near villages within the range of Soviet artillery posts, putting the villagers in danger of death from Soviet retaliation. The mujahideen used land mines heavily. Often, they would enlist the services of the local inhabitants and even children.

They concentrated on both civilian and military targets, knocking out bridges, closing major roads, attacking convoys, disrupting the electric power system and industrial production, and attacking police stations and Soviet military installations and air bases. They assassinated government officials and PDPA members, and laid siege to small rural outposts. In March 1982, a bomb exploded at the Ministry of Education, damaging several buildings. In the same month, a widespread power failure darkened Kabul when a pylon on the transmission line from the Naghlu power station was blown up. In June 1982 a column of about 1,000 young party members sent out to work in the Panjshir valley were ambushed within 30 km of Kabul, with heavy loss of life. On September 4, 1985, insurgents shot down a domestic Bakhtar Airlines plane as it took off from Kandahar airport, killing all 52 people aboard.[/quote]You are right in that Russia is not USSR but if I'm not mistaken the KGB still exists to protect the Russian Federation. Be weary my friend, I too can slice hair and I assure you I am very good at it.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;559758]Speak for yourself. I don't call them rebels. [B]You must be referring to the liberal media[/B]. I was thinking more along the lines of the PLO, Hezzbollah, and Islamic Jihad. They tried to get ballsey with the Russians but the KGB wasn't having it. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan and Chechnya is part of Russia. I would have just nuked Afghanistan. Why waste time with torturing them when you can microwave every since soul in less than a second?[/quote]
i really admire how you never waver. when all else fails, it must be the liberal media. what a joke

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

I always get drawn to these type threads, and always think of one scenario. Imagine if every country was nuked expect the U.S. Instant division would occur, states would start jockeying for power and war would break out.

Apparently most here that are for killing anyone but an American don't have family in other areas. If you don't believe in torture or killing you can't pick certain areas, its either all or none.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;559687]I will answer this way, in a perfect world no one would torture, and/or be tortured. However, lets not play dumb a** and say Americans are NOT tortured. We have witnessed our soldiers dragged and beaten, civilians heads chopped off on the internet, planes flown directly into a civilian target. If I thought for half a second that us not torturing these agents would prevent these types of acts from re-occurring, then do not use these techniques. BUT our enemies will torture regardless of our actions, they will commit atrocities against civilians regardless of our civility, they will seek out targets that will cause mass casualties regardless of our attempts to use pinpoint accuracy and minimize civilian casualties.
Bottomline, no I do not want United States citizens tortured, but I recognize our enemies regardless of my desires, and so if we need to use brutal tactics on the very worst of the worst, then so be it[/quote]


nice post, i agree with you 100%.

Re: Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture
 

[quote=saden1;559691]No I wouldn't resort to torture because I wouldn't assume torture was the only viable means of archiving the desired result. Furthermore, your argument for torture in this instance would pave the way for using torture in any scenario where someone's life is in danger.[/quote]Very carefully worded response. I didn't say torture, I said waterboarding. On a scale of 1 (being standard jail treatment and ask a few questions) to 10 (chainsaws, blowtorches, and electric shocks to gentials), I'd put the waterboarding the CIA did to the Al Qeada terrorists at about a 3. While liberals and intellectuals debate policy and what constitutes torture, people need to make decisions to save lives. If I know (or have a very strong chance) I could save the lives of the Iraqi family by waterboarding someone who was planning their rape/murder, I'd do it and sleep like a baby.

Obviously this is a hypothetical and we could go on with these all day, bottom line is the Bush Admin. did what they believed was in the best interest of the country to save lives. Much worse was done by the Clinton Admin. If you are strictly against the actions the Clinton Admin. took in the mid-90s (which based on an earlier post I think you are) I respect that, not agree, but definitely respect.