North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

So I've been listening to everyone about North Korea. As most of you know they just tested a Hiroshima size hydrogen bomb successfully and they've rockets to put it on now too.

My questions is this. Are they a real threat to the US, or are they just trying to get more money and food to feed their army while their people starve to death?

I'm inclined to think that the North Koreans aren't a real threat. Everyone wants to gin up some tin pot despot up like he's the new Hitler. So what if North Korea has the bomb. We're got thousands of them. If I had my way I'd take all of those troops and equipment out of Korea and tell the them to get stuffed.

Kimberly Ill Dong or what-ever his commie name is always complains that the US is threatening his country. If we weren't there he'd have no arguement. It's not like there aren't a million South Koreans on their own border. We've been negotiating with them for how long now, since Clinton and Bush SR? Evidently they're not buying and could care less if their people live and die in squalor. (Typical Marxist) So I say F Korea.

What Sayeth the Mob?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;560038]So I've been listening to the everyone about North Korea. As most of you know they just tested a Hiroshima size hydrogen bomb successfully and they've rockets to put it on now too.

My questions is this. Are they a real threat to the US, or are they just trying to get more money and food to feed their army while their people starve to death?

I'm inclined to think that the North Koreans aren't a real threat. Everyone wants to gin up some tin pot despot up like he's the new Hitler. So what if North Korea has the bomb. We're got thousands of them. If I had my way I'd take all of those troops and equipment out of Korea and tell the them to get stuffed.

Kimberly Ill Dong or [COLOR=red]what-ever his commie name is[/COLOR] always complaining that the US is threatening his country. If we weren't there he'd have no arguement. It's not like there aren't a million South Koreans on their own border. We've been negotiating with them for how long now, since Clinton and Bush SR? Evidently they're not buying and could care less if their people live and die in squalor. (Typical Marxist) So I say F Korea.

What Sayeth the Mob?[/quote]

[COLOR=#ff0000]what-ever his commie name is[/COLOR]

THAT IS HUMOR!! TTE.....you are the man!
BTW....real threat.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

A real threat to S. Korea and Japan. They are at the end of their economic life like the USSR was, but they are not willing to go peacefully into the night. I don't think we stand at risk, but, if the politicos want to involve us, then we will blunder into it head first.

H. Clinton sounds way out of her league, and I don't think brow beating that regime will work like it did with her husband. (PS before Dmek chimes in, I was a huge Margaret Thatcher supporter, and Linda Chavez in the 80's and Sandra OConnor etc. ) We could really screw it up if we just assume everyone supports us, which I think the Dems will because they think now that Bush is gone, how could the world not love the US.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

It would seem Pres Obama sees them as a threat:
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_skorea]Obama says nuclear-armed N. Korea 'grave threat' - Yahoo! News[/url]

Whenever I hear the term "Grave threat" I think of Tom Cruise/Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men"

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;563146]It would seem Pres Obama sees them as a threat:
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_skorea]Obama says nuclear-armed N. Korea 'grave threat' - Yahoo! News[/url]

Whenever I hear the term "Grave threat" I think of Tom Cruise/Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men"[/quote]

Yeah, but what is he going to do about it? I've got a five spot that says he doesn't do jack.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Big time threat. From their actions and words they are daring anyone who gets in there way.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

No, they are not a threat because the UN passed a resolution that we can stop and board their ships to look for military supplies if we get their permission. Which we all know they will be more than willing to stop their ships and welcome us aboard.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

You cant handle the truth!!!

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Seems like NK grew Ba!!s sense Obama stopped looking at them as the Axis Of Evil and now they are talking about aiming one at Hawaii.

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527400,00.html]U.S., North Korea War of Words Heats Up Over Missile Threat to Hawaii - North Korea | Map | Government - FOXNews.com[/url]

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=firstdown;563709]Seems like NK grew Ba!!s sense Obama stopped looking at them as the Axis Of Evil and now they are talking about aiming one at Hawaii.

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527400,00.html"]U.S., North Korea War of Words Heats Up Over Missile Threat to Hawaii - North Korea | Map | Government - FOXNews.com[/URL][/quote]

I double dog dare them.

Our missile defense system is in place, it would never get near us. And it would give our country's leaders all the political clout they need to launch a full scale war on these douchebags and finally shut them up once and for all.

They have a strong military with 1 million men strong, but they don't have a counter to our air superiority. They'd crumble under bombing campaigns which could easily be staged from Japan and South Korea.

And as big as their army is, they could never get near our homeland. The only way they can threaten us is through missile strikes, but we've got a real good defense in place for that, too.

They're a threat. I'd love to see us squash them.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Schneed10;563713]I double dog dare them.

Our missile defense system is in place, it would never get near us. And it would give our country's leaders all the political clout they need to launch a full scale war on these douchebags and finally shut them up once and for all.

They have a strong military with 1 million men strong, but they don't have a counter to our air superiority. They'd crumble under bombing campaigns which could easily be staged from Japan and South Korea.

And as big as their army is, they could never get near our homeland. The only way they can threaten us is through missile strikes, but we've got a real good defense in place for that, too.

They're a threat. I'd love to see us squash them.[/quote]
I'm sure if they follow through with this Obama will react like Cliton and bomb one of their asprin factories.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Firing off missiles into the ocean is one thing. Firing them at Hawaii is an act of war. As a nuclear power they must be dealt with by using nuclear weapons to prevent a counter offensive.

I'm glad I live in Virginia and not on the Left Coast. I don't think Obama has the balls to win a war. Bush didn't and he was more hawkish than the Democrats. Once they start tossing things our way then I'll have to change my position.

If I was Kimberly Ill Dang I'd be doing the same thing. Selling nuclear weapons buys a lof of porn, whores, and booze. Pushing around the big paper tiger gives him clout. It's a win win situation. He doesn't have anything to lose. We're not going to attack N Korea and everyone knows it. He's already jacked everyone for all the rice and money that he can get so now he's selling his nukes.

On the 4th of July Kimberly is going to give us a big Eff you and nothing will be done about it. Bank on it!

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=firstdown;563717]I'm sure if they follow through with this Obama will react like [COLOR="Red"]Cliton[/COLOR] and bomb one of their asprin factories.[/quote]

I don't know if you mispelled this on purpose but it makes sense to me.
:rofl:

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;563721]I don't know if you mispelled this on purpose but it makes sense to me.
:rofl:[/quote]

No not on purpose.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Both...you can only blackmail if you present a real threat.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=FRPLG;563743]Both...you can only blackmail if you present a real threat.[/quote]

Good point! I hadn't thought of it that way.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

They are a real threat if they sell any of their technology to bodies political that do not have our interests at heart.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Dogtag;563750]They are a real threat if they sell any of their technology to bodies political that do not have our interests at heart.[/quote]

Hmmm.... Like Syria?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

As a threat to us militarily? No - There missiles will fall in the short of Hawaii. They know that, we know that and the world knows that. With that said - If they are going to "test" their missiles by aiming at us, I think we should "test" our Anti-missile tech and blow things up the moment the leave NK airspace.

As a seller of technology to our enemies? Hell yeah. As with terrorism and other covert attacks, this is much harder to deal and can really only be beaten with vigilance and intelligence operations.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Dogtag;563750]They are a real threat if they sell any of their technology to bodies political that do not have our interests at heart.[/quote]

Hmmm..... like terrorist. People need to wake up and realize that nut would love to get a bomb in the hands of another nut that would set one off here in a place like NY.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

It truly speaks to what we've developed weapons-wise that most countries still can't replicate what we did over 60 years ago. It also speaks for the money that we've thrown at the programs and ability in acquiring the necessary materials, but a lot for just the technological developments as well.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Im curious as to why Hawaii. Sure it's closer than the mainland, but Hawaii (while owned by the USA) has fewer Americans there. Why not threaten Los Angeles if you want to get recognized? It would get the actors all riled up, which would cause a massive stir seeing those whiners on TV everyday worried about an imminant attack, and of course the seemingly billions of people that live in that area wouldn't be able to keep quiet either since a lot of them would be more concerned with the environment rather than actual human casualties. So to me this brings up a couple issues.
1- They don't have the technology to actually make it to Cali. So they will settle for whatever is in the way. They might not even be able to make it to Hawaii, but let's assume they can for now.
2- They are not very intelligent for actually letting their plan (or threat) out. Every country, no matter how small, knows the power the USA possesses, so why really wake us up? (just a metaphor, I know we were already awake)
3- Maybe, just maybe, Il saw what kind of a whimp Obama is and decided to try to get something out of it. Let's face it, even some of the Dems were worried about Obama's reduce the military stance and his seemingly disregard for abolishing terrorism. (which this is a perfect example of terrorism FYI).
4- Why the US? Why a tourism spot? Why not China?
It's blackmail. It's an open ended threat. Just like Schneed said, we have anti missile defense systems in place, if they so much as sneeze and send a weak bomb over here, we're taking the bomb out with a push of a button, and then we will bitch slap them. No matter what, you have to take this as a real threat, but it's time we put our foot up their ass and tell em to cut the shit! Maybe it's time "Kimberly" (classic) was wiped off this earth.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

They want membership into the Nuclear Club -- which has a lot of perks. One of which is the status of Kryptonite to the United States. Because as we all know, we don't mess with countries that actually pose any sort of a threat to us.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=jsarno;563833]Im curious as to why Hawaii. Sure it's closer than the mainland, but Hawaii (while owned by the USA) has fewer Americans there. Why not threaten Los Angeles if you want to get recognized? It would get the actors all riled up, which would cause a massive stir seeing those whiners on TV everyday worried about an imminant attack, and of course the seemingly billions of people that live in that area wouldn't be able to keep quiet either since a lot of them would be more concerned with the environment rather than actual human casualties. So to me this brings up a couple issues.
1- They don't have the technology to actually make it to Cali. So they will settle for whatever is in the way. They might not even be able to make it to Hawaii, but let's assume they can for now.
2- They are not very intelligent for actually letting their plan (or threat) out. Every country, no matter how small, knows the power the USA possesses, so why really wake us up? (just a metaphor, I know we were already awake)
3- Maybe, just maybe, Il saw what kind of a whimp Obama is and decided to try to get something out of it. Let's face it, even some of the Dems were worried about Obama's reduce the military stance and his seemingly disregard for abolishing terrorism. (which this is a perfect example of terrorism FYI).
4- Why the US? Why a tourism spot? Why not China?
It's blackmail. It's an open ended threat. Just like Schneed said, we have anti missile defense systems in place, if they so much as sneeze and send a weak bomb over here, we're taking the bomb out with a push of a button, and then we will bitch slap them. No matter what, you have to take this as a real threat, but it's time we put our foot up their ass and tell em to cut the shit! Maybe it's time "Kimberly" (classic) was wiped off this earth.[/quote]

Why Hawaii? Simple, their missiles can't reach the mainland yet, they don't have the range. But they are semi-capable of reaching Hawaii.

I say "semi" because half the time they fail and go off target.

Nothing more to it than that.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

We'll treat North Korea like a threat even if they're not. Look, I think the tougher U.N. sanctions further isolates and marginalizes North Korea to a degree. Russia, China, and Japan, among others, all support these tougher sanctions and stand at the ready to enforce them.

And let's face it, they're not going to be rolling out a ship every other week just to test a missle aimed at Hawaii.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Schneed10;563853]Why Hawaii? Simple, their missiles can't reach the mainland yet, they don't have the range. But they are semi-capable of reaching Hawaii.

I say "semi" because half the time they fail and go off target.

Nothing more to it than that.[/quote]

Actually, they are about 500 miles short of Hawaii, but could also reach Alaska. I wonder how people would react if they actually launched a couple nukes in both directions and let them explode short. While not an exact strike, the radiation in the jetstream would kill and otherwise affect the whole of the US. Also, they could easily strike Japan, so a launch in the ocean would have a chilling effect on Japan.

I am more worried about this now, and here's my rationale. Both China and Russia have made statements both condemning calling on NKorea to go back to the table, and Russia has gone as far as to say it WILL shoot down any missiles fired towards it (i assume that means even if it were headed towards Alaska). This says to me that they have no internal controls on the upcoming regime in NKorea. Also, if NKorea feels pressed, they may believe that the only way to get everyone off its back - so to speak - is by committing a first strike. In a corner, and the military in a position of the country's heroes, may leave them only one option. It is not like we could return a nuclear strike toward them and not have it also affect both South Korea and Japan. So we effectively are limited to a ground war over where we stalemated once before in a very bloody war.

So why would they launch a nuke into the ocean. A simple answer is regional superiority. Suddenly, China and NKorea would own the Asian markets, and no American response would weaken our standing with Japan, and SKorea.

I generally see this as an extremely unlikely development, but less so since the recent Russian and Chinese governments actions.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

We can either deal with them now, before it is no longer an option? I am fairly confident their plans include...............becoming a threat

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=12thMan;563854]We'll treat North Korea like a threat even if they're not. Look, I think the tougher U.N. sanctions further isolates and marginalizes North Korea to a degree. Russia, China, and Japan, among others, all support these tougher sanctions and stand at the ready to enforce them.

And let's face it, they're not going to be rolling out a ship every other week just to test a missle aimed at Hawaii.[/quote]

I wonder if Serbia was considered a threat before WWI.
(my point on that is more to say that treaties and alliances cause little irritants to become major threats)

The problem with NKorea is simply that they are an uncontrollable regime. The fact that they are isolated makes them more dangerous, not less. They are marginalized when they are under China's influence because we have a rational country to deal with. but as a rogue country, even if they act stupidly, China won't let them be militarily defeated.

as for sanctions, I really am tired of hearing about them. Can anyone cite examples of where international sanctions affected a rogue country's politics? Maybe S. Africa. Any others?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=Schneed10;563713]I double dog dare them.

Our missile defense system is in place, it would never get near us. And it would give our country's leaders all the political clout they need to launch a full scale war on these douchebags and finally shut them up once and for all.

They have a strong military with 1 million men strong, but they don't have a counter to our air superiority. They'd crumble under bombing campaigns which could easily be staged from Japan and South Korea.

And as big as their army is, they could never get near our homeland. The only way they can threaten us is through missile strikes, but we've got a real good defense in place for that, too.

They're a threat. I'd love to see us squash them.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself. We'd stomp them out like a cigarette butt, they know it, and so does the rest of the world. Kim Jong Il is a glorified mob boss.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Thought I would revive this. Even China is getting tired of North Korea's antics:

BreakingNews

Update: China complains formally over shooting of 3 citizens by NKorean guard, an unusual move for the close allies-BBC
about 3 hours ago via breakingnews.com

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10263325.stm]BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'[/url]

Is North Korea so close to the brink that they just don't care at this point, or is it still all political gamesmanship. At this point I don't think I would be shocked if they tried a land grab irrationally rationalizing:
a) they could get to Seoul with the element of surprise.
b) china would defend their airspace if push came to shove
c) as a last resort they have the threat of nuking Japan if we intervene.

Granted they have been nearly all bark for the last decade, but is it possible at some point their dear leader just puts all his cards in and goes for it?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

The key to North Korea is China and its always been. Believe me, we are not doing a thing unless we get their permission...that goes for any Repubs or Dems in power. We been trying to ride out Kim's health, but the dude seems to have Castro-like staying power to avoid purgatory. I think no one will do a thing and this will just continue like it always has...N.Korea loves the attention, but they know they are in for an ass kicking from China and Us if they try to denonate any bomb...

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;705263]Thought I would revive this. Even China is getting tired of North Korea's antics:

BreakingNews

Update: China complains formally over shooting of 3 citizens by NKorean guard, an unusual move for the close allies-BBC
about 3 hours ago via breakingnews.com

[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10263325.stm"]BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'[/URL]

Is North Korea so close to the brink that they just don't care at this point, or is it still all political gamesmanship. At this point I don't think I would be shocked if they tried a land grab irrationally rationalizing:
a) they could get to Seoul with the element of surprise.
b) china would defend their airspace if push came to shove
c) as a last resort they have the threat of nuking Japan if we intervene.

Granted they have been nearly all bark for the last decade, but is it possible at some point their dear leader just puts all his cards in and goes for it?[/quote]

I don't think so. Any invasion of South Korea would be met with significant resistance from the US, and with them as the aggressors and us as the defenders of little South Korea, we would retain all moral high ground.

China is interested in maintaining a good relationship with the US. They like us for trade purposes, they don't want to get into a gigantic war with us (who does), and they hold a ton of our bonds. If they get into a war with us, where they defend the North Korean aggressors, it gives us all the reason in the world to wipe that debt right off the books. Our nation's credit rating wouldn't even take a hit because of the circumstances and the moral high ground.

North Korea talks a big game but ultimately they will do what's in their own best interests. They don't feel real secure with Japan and its Navy just to the East, the American-defended South Koreans just to the South, and the growing American partnership with China. Kim Jong Il is paranoid, and puts on shows of force with his occasional missile launches. But in the end I think he's more rational than people give him credit for. He's an evil bastard for sure, but he still knows what's in his own best interests. If he invades S Korea he has to commit his forces to the invasion, the US and Japan will bomb him from across the water, and China will be forced to sit and watch.

The real threat is that he'd supply terrorists with nuclear weaponry in an attempt to attack our homeland covertly.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Some interesting side bars about Kim, sr.

- he is a huge hollywood fan. he has a private movie theater where he will watch hollywood movies.

- back in the 50's or 60s, when tension btw NK and the US was pretty high, the US president at the time invited him to visit america. he came and was more interested in partying with celebrities. he ened up here for over a month iirc, traveling around the country.

- hes a huge elvis fan

freak i forgot the rest. i read an article from the washingotn post about him a year ago where it talked aobut his tour of the US, etc. real interesting article.

like credskins said, it seems NK is reaching the end of their ability to survive as an isolated cmmunist republic. i read that now, even ranking officials in the military are going hungry.

will NK go the route of the former soviet union or will they go out in blaze of glory?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

South Korea nor North Korea want to destroy their country. I predict unification sooner than later. They are not stupid. Fighting over what?

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

It is bluster for the most part. Yeah, the N Korean Army is huge, etc, but the S Koreans have more missiles, more advanced fighters(and more of them), and more importantly more allies than the North does. The North has the bomb now? So what!! What happens if the beloved dictator drops a nuke on Seoul or even worse US troops there? We would nuke the entire nation and put them half starved N Korean troops out of their misery real quick. I mean face it, most of the N Korean conventional arsenal is Soviet handme downs, which in the face of fifth generation US technology is really uselsss, ala the supposedly vaunted Iraqi armed forces of 1990-91. A war with the North would be dumb, as although we would win, the casualties among the Koreans on both sides of the 38th parallel would be initially horrendous if the North did use the bomb or just executed a massive invasion of the South if it felt its back against the wall.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Had to revive this again. First any time a Trample thread can be revived, that's a good thing, and second:

One day they are going to say/do something, and it's not going to end well for them:

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/furious-over-sanctions-nkorea-vows-nuke-us-092213643.html]Furious over sanctions, NKorea vows to nuke US - Yahoo! News[/url]

[QUOTE]"Now our enemies are trying to make additional sanctions against us, but we can never accept this," said Ri Kum Il, a Pyongyang citizen at the rally. "We will make a preemptive nuclear attack against our enemies wherever they are and turn their strongholds into a sea of flames."[/QUOTE]

ok Ri, but if you start a fire, you probably will get burned.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

Yes they certainly have been getting riled up lately.
Sanctions and our war games have really annoyed them.
Seems like they are more mad at us then actually South Korea.
I think they will have to actually invade or do a lot of shooting towards the south for us to really do anything.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

I guess the question is, could they manage to lob a nuke at Japan. I doubt they send one to SK, to close, and if they fired one off at us, they have to know it would be an act in futility, but if they lobbed it at Japan, they(being crazy) may think it strengthens their negotiation position.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;996764]I guess the question is, could they manage to lob a nuke at Japan. I doubt they send one to SK, to close, and if they fired one off at us, they have to know it would be an act in futility, but if they lobbed it at Japan, they(being crazy) may think it strengthens their negotiation position.[/quote]

If they nuke Japan they will be come the next Iraq.
Except this time we'll get a lot more help.

If they nuked us it would go even worse for them as we would most likely occupy them for the next 80 years while reuniting with the south.

I dont think they are so dumb to think that an action like that will lift their sanctions.

Re: North Korea: Threat or Blackmailer?
 

nobody rattles the saber these days like DPRK. China would never let them fire a nuclear missle at us...all talk. My big problem with them is trading nuclear arms with terrorists groups.