Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5421818/Air-France-plane-lost-officials-say-no-hope-of-finding-airliner.html[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Was just about to post this. That's some scary stuff right there

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

BAD news..........that ain't gonna be a landing in the Hudson.........

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

it was an electrical problem

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/01/air.france.brazil/index.html]Missing Air France jet 'hit by electric fault' - CNN.com[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Saden1 post in "Fear of Flying" really rings true this morning.

[I][COLOR="Red"]Nothing is safer than flying on a plane. As someone who has worked for Boeing I can tell you with 100% certainty that plane manufactures know what they're doing and are under the strictest scrutiny of any industry. It takes roughly a month to build one airplane because they check, double check, triple check everything. They train and help train (through certified training partners) every mechanic that works on their planes and every pilot that flies their planes. When you're in the business of Airplane manufacturing you can't cut corners and that something airplane manufactures simply don't do. It's very bad for business. Boeing produce ~36 planes a month and has ~27K machinists. That's ~750 machinist per plane spending ~180K man hours on building a single plane. That's a staggering number by any measure so rest assure you're plane is not likely to crash with you on it. [/COLOR][/I]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=mredskins;560894]Saden1 post in "Fear of Flying" really rings true this morning.

[I][COLOR=Red]Nothing is safer than flying on a plane. As someone who has worked for Boeing I can tell you with 100% certainty that plane manufactures know what they're doing and are under the strictest scrutiny of any industry. It takes roughly a month to build one airplane because they check, double check, triple check everything. They train and help train (through certified training partners) every mechanic that works on their planes and every pilot that flies their planes. When you're in the business of Airplane manufacturing you can't cut corners and that something airplane manufactures simply don't do. It's very bad for business. Boeing produce ~36 planes a month and has ~27K machinists. That's ~750 machinist per plane spending ~180K man hours on building a single plane. That's a staggering number by any measure so rest assure you're plane is not likely to crash with you on it. [/COLOR][/I][/quote]

So let's take cheap shots at people?

Come on man. Even after this flight airplane flight is safer than being in a car. It just seems like a lot the last year. Compare it to the millions of people that fly daily and airfare is a very safe mode of transportation.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Not really a cheap shot, but what ever. I just remeber that post for awhile ago and thought it was a little to "bullet proof" for my liking.

I don't know Saden1 or ever have commented on any of his post expect this one, nothing personally.

I think the cheap shoot was Hooskins saying I made a cheap shot but, hey opinions are like a$$holes we all know it.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=mredskins;560899]Not really a cheap shot, but what ever. I just remeber that post for awhile ago and thought it was a little to "bullet proof" for my liking.

I don't know Saden1 or ever have commented on any of his post expect this one, nothing personally.

I think the cheap shoot was Hooskins saying I made a cheap shot but, hey opinions are like a$$holes we all know it.[/quote]

Ok fair enough, let's say it wasn't a cheap shot. The post still isn't anymore legit. One missing plane is not statistically significant to deem airplanes unsafe.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

It basically shows no matter how much effort humans put in to safeguard against error it is never 100%.

I am not afraid of flying and feel it is a safe mode of transportation. Now I can see where people are freaked becasue basically one small mistke generally means death. In a car you need a pretty major accident for that to occur. Basically a lot things could go wrong with a car that don't spell death in a plane that is not so true; if the drink tray breaks you are pretty safe outside of that goodbye. =)

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=mredskins;560908]It basically shows no matter how much effort humans put in to safeguard against error it is never 100%.

I am not afraid of flying and feel it is a safe mode of transportation. Now I can see where people are freaked becasue basically one small mistke generally means death. In a car you need a pretty major accident for that to occur. Basically a lot things could go wrong with a car that don't spell death in a plane that is not so true; if the drink tray breaks you are pretty safe outside of that goodbye. =)[/quote]

Interesting point, I would like to see the data on fatal accidents of number people divided by times they travel.

Also I think dying on a plane is much more dramatic than in a car. The fact you are in the air and plummeting to your death is definitely scarier. Also it must seem we are much more in control of a car(driving or not) than an airplane.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=hooskins;560911]Interesting point, I would like to see the data on fatal accidents of number people divided by times they travel.

Also I think [B]dying on a plane is much more dramatic than in a car[/B]. The fact you are in the air and plummeting to your death is definitely scarier. Also it must seem we are much more in control of a car(driving or not) than an airplane.[/quote]

absolutely. seems like in a car it would be driving along just fine then suddenly... CRASH!! in a airplane you already have that fear while your in the air then something goes wrong and as your plane is falling to the ground you have the terrifying and ufortinate realization that your going to die.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

I would argue most car deaths are not instant plus I rather fall to my death then be trapped in a twisted car while bleeding to death.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Awful tragedy. My thoughts are with the families of everyone on board. Not that there is any easy way to lose a loved one, but something like this is so sudden and unbelievable.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=mredskins;560922]I would argue most car deaths are not instant plus I rather fall to my death then be trapped in a twisted car while bleeding to death.[/quote]

good point. the % of people who experiance pain and suffering after the crashing of a plane vrs. a car would definately be higher for the car crash victims.

depends on how you look at it. what is worse the fear and mental anguish of knowing your going to die or the pain and suffering of dieing ? both would definately suck.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Debris found?

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Travel/story?id=7732053&page=1]Debris May Be of Air France Flight 447, Spotted in Atlantic Ocean by Brazil Air Force - ABC News[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

With all the tracking devises now days it really surprises me they dont have a better idea of where the plane went down. I mean on my boat I have two devises to transmit and emergency signal giving my location. One is mounted on the boat (usless when the boat sinks) the other is hand held devise that floats.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=firstdown;561172]With all the tracking devises now days it really surprises me they dont have a better idea of where the plane went down. I mean on my boat I have two devises to transmit and emergency signal giving my location. One is mounted on the boat (usless when the boat sinks) the other is hand held devise that floats.[/quote]

Apparently the black box on the plane transmits an electronic signal for a limited time when in water.

I do agree, however, that it is surprising we don't know what happened. It's kinda scary too.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

The ocean is big, really big

[url=http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/02/brazil.missing.plane.search/]Finding downed jet in open ocean is a tall order - CNN.com[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=firstdown;561172][B]With all the tracking devises now days it really surprises me they dont have a better idea of where the plane went down.[/B] I mean on my boat I have two devises to transmit and emergency signal giving my location. One is mounted on the boat (usless when the boat sinks) the other is hand held devise that floats.[/quote]

That's what I was thinking. How can they not have a 100% waterproof/crush proof homing beacon or GPS locator?

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561196]The ocean is big, really big

[URL="http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/02/brazil.missing.plane.search/"]Finding downed jet in open ocean is a tall order - CNN.com[/URL][/quote]
I know the ocean is really big but with all the tracking devises on the market it just seems strange that these planes are not better equiped. Have you ever watched Deadlest Catch when a boat sinks they know where the boat sanks its more of a matter of getting to them. The devise used on boats is called an Epirb and sends out a distress signal that anyone with radar can pick up right away. Thats what I don't get about plans having a simiular type devise. What would happen if the plane went down with survivors?

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

You're obviously on to something FD, you should call up the FAA and get on that.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561206]You're obviously on to something FD, you should all up the FAA and get on that.[/quote]
How do you all up the FAA or do I want to know?

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Now that's funny, busting on me for a typo

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561211]Now that's funny, busting on me for a typo[/quote]
Funny thing is you took the time to go back and correct the typo. If I did that it would take me hours just to post something.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

That is sad and scary, my sis and her two kids will be flying here next month from france.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=wolfeskins;560920]absolutely. seems like in a car it would be driving along just fine then suddenly... CRASH!! in a airplane you already have that fear while your in the air then something goes wrong and as your plane is falling to the ground you have the terrifying and ufortinate realization that your going to die.[/quote]

I think in some plane crash situations, the sudden drop in pressure has caused the passengers to black out as the plane plummets out of the sky. So in that case, you aren't conscious anyway. If I remember correctly, that was what happened to golfer Payne Stewart when he was killed.

If you're going to die in a plane crash, that would be the way to go.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

If a plane decompresses at 40k feet you're not going to be awake for very long unless you can get that oxygen mask on in about 5-7 seconds.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

^ Oh yeah good point! See the plane crash is looking much better then the car accident.

On some show last week when I was fliping the channel some guy died in a car crash and he was crushed by a truck carrying pigs. They weren't sure if he was screaming or just the pigs when they were trying to get to him, by the time they did he was dead. Now that would suck!

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5444168/Air-France-pilots-battled-for-15-minutes-to-save-doomed-flight-AF-447.html]Air France pilots battled for 15 minutes to save doomed flight AF 447 - Telegraph[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561484]If a plane decompresses at 40k feet you're not going to be awake for very long unless you can get that oxygen mask on in about 5-7 seconds.[/quote]
Remember what happened to Pain Stewart:


But in October of that year, Stewart's life ended. He was on board a plane taking off from Orlando, Fla., and heading to Texas. Somewhere along the way, the plane took an unexpected turn and began heading north, up through the Midwest. Air traffic controllers could get no response from the plane.
An F-16 fighter jet pulled alongside and tried to contact the crew. There was no response and the windows were fogged over. It was determined later that a cabin leak had caused the plane to slowly lose air pressure, rendering the crew and passengers unconscious. In a bizarre scene played out on television news channels, the plane continue to fly on autopilot. Air Force pilots were authorized to shoot it down if it appeared headed for a populated area, but it finally ran out of fuel and crashed in a field outside Aberdeen, South Dakota. Stewart and the five others on-board were already dead from hypoxia - lack of oxygen - before the crash.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Yeah sad thing what happened to Stewart.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Weird story about Stewart. My mom was one of the leads on his autopsy and confirming his cause of death. So, a few days after his death, there's a message on our home answering machine (yeah it was answering machines back then) from one of her assistants saying "I left Payne Stewart's fingers on your desk for you to review. We'll catch up tomorrow" I think it was actually some bone and tissue, not his actual finger. But still...one of the oddest messages I've heard

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=SmootSmack;561500]Weird story about Stewart. My mom was one of the leads on his autopsy and confirming his cause of death. So, a few days after his death, there's a message on our home answering machine (yeah it was answering machines back then) from one of her assistants saying "I left Payne Stewart's fingers on your desk for you to review. We'll catch up tomorrow" I think it was actually some bone and tissue, not his actual finger. But still...one of the oddest messages I've heard[/quote]

that's creepy man

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Did the finger point to what cause his death?

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

This sounds pretty terrifying. By this account, at least the passengers were passed out from the lack of cabin pressure before the plane went down. I think being awake as your plane is crashing would pretty much be the scariest thing imaginable.

[url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/06042009/news/worldnews/jets_horrifying_final_14_minutes_172538.htm?&page=1]HORRIFYING FINAL 14 MINUTES OF AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447 - New York Post[/url]

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

Thunderstorm 50,000 feet high... insane.

Hopefully those poor people went quick.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561539]Thunderstorm 50,000 feet high... insane.

Hopefully those poor people went quick.[/quote]

I don't know if we have any aviation experts here, but if the thunderstorms have a "ceiling", in this case 50,000 feet, would it be possible to fly over the thundercloud?

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561539]Thunderstorm 50,000 feet high... insane.

Hopefully those poor people went quick.[/quote]


I think that has to do with the close proximity to the equator. Weather is really screwy around there. My stepdad was an engineer and worked on lots of boats, mostly for NASA and the Navy regarding rocket/missle tracking. He crossed over the equator many times, and had some pretty interesting stories about how bizarre the conditions are around the equator.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Beemnseven;561549]I don't know if we have any aviation experts here, but if the thunderstorms have a "ceiling", in this case 50,000 feet, would it be possible to fly over the thundercloud?[/quote]

I don't know that sounds really high. I don't think commercial airliners go above 45,000.

Even if they could have gone over it the article points out sometimes a storm forms around you and you're basically stuck.

Re: Air France Jet Disappears on Flight From Brazil to Paris
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561539]Thunderstorm 50,000 feet high... insane.

Hopefully those poor people went quick.[/quote]
Sad part is it sounds like the storm slowly distroyed the plane. Not to make lite of the situation but they probably bounced around that plane like ping pong balls in bingo machine.