bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I hope so...

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/smith-offense-up-to-speed----a.html]Redskins Insider - Smith: Offense Up To Speed -- And Watch Betts[/url]

"The guy that's been standing out to me is Ladell Betts," Smith said of the running back who serves as Clinton Portis's backup. "To me, he's stepped his game up. He's preparing like he's a starter. He's taken a leadership role, which I'm not saying he wasn't a leader before, but I just think he's a very good player. He's jumped out to me.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

His versaltility is his main strength, but he's been just mediocre after his good year in '06. I'm really hoping one of those backs we signed (Aldridge, Dorsey, Mason) step and become the #2 behind Portis.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Smith isn't the first coach to say that he liked Betts. Remember when saunders said he was excited about Betts' potential & wanted to get Betts & Portis in at the same time?

That never happened as far as I know, although Saunders liked to go to Betts in the passing game when Portis was healthy. Seems that since Portis came back in 07, for whatever reason, Betts just doesn't get called on that much. It's unfair to him to say he hasn't done much since 06. He's still a very good back, give him the ball in a variety of situations & he'll produce.

I bet he's as quick or quicker to the hole as portis these days. His main problem has always been fumbling, not his speed or toughness.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I want to see us give another back every 3rd or so series. Portis is a very good back, but he's getting a bi long in the tooth (for a RB) and I can't think of anything that could help this team more than Portis with something left in the tank in the 4th quarter or the game and season. Stop killing Portis by week 11.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Betts has to play a bigger role this year or Portis will again have nothing left by the 2nd half of the season.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

totally agree w/Matty & Daseal.

Does anyone have a theory as to why Betts hasn't gotten may carries the last 2 years, even as the coaches seem to always praise him in training camp & the team re-signed him to a nice deal?

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=freddyg12;561666]Smith isn't the first coach to say that he liked Betts. Remember when saunders said he was excited about Betts' potential & wanted to get Betts & Portis in at the same time?

That never happened as far as I know, although Saunders liked to go to Betts in the passing game when Portis was healthy. Seems that since Portis came back in 07, for whatever reason, Betts just doesn't get called on that much. It's unfair to him to say he hasn't done much since 06. He's still a very good back, give him the ball in a variety of situations & he'll produce.

[B]I bet he's as quick or quicker to the hole as portis these days. His main problem has always been fumbling, not his speed or toughness[/B].[/quote]

Nobody's questioning his speed or quickness, because all of that is irrelevant. The bottom line is that when he's had oppurtunities he hasn't taken full advantage of them, whether that's fumbling or getting injured (which isn't his fault). If you look at production, he really hasn't done much since '06 and that [B](could)[/B] be blamed on playing time but if he made the most out of his oppurtunities we would not have signed [B]3[/B] RB's to compete with him for the #2 job which already tells you something.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I'm cool with more of a Portis/Betts sharing the load arrangement. Betts is good in bursts (say that 5 times fast) but he has to work on ball security. I know his fumbles per carry ratio is similar to Portis but his fumbles seem to come at killer times.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Hopefully his role will be cheering on the sideline 95% of the time and relieving Portis for a breathing spell the other 5% of the time.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

On a good day I'd like to see Betts get at least 10 carries. Let him play a couple of series in a row to get in a groove. I'd rather see a healthy Portis at the end of the year with 1200 yards than a totally gassed Portis with 1500 yards. Come playoff time a broken down CP is going to be worthless.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561668]Betts has to play a bigger role this year or Portis will again have nothing left by the 2nd half of the season.[/quote]

I do not think that it has to be Betts as long as somebody spells him. If CP gets more than 75% of the carries as frequently as we run the ball, he isn't going to make it much longer.

In all honesty I would like to see some young blood at the RB position. I just don't think that Betts is hungry or explosive enough. I do not know the man personally, I am just speaking from what I have seen on the field. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him, but I am not sold.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561676]On a good day I'd like to see Betts get at least 10 carries. Let him play a couple of series in a row to get in a groove. I'd rather see a healthy Portis at the end of the year with 1200 yards than a totally gassed Portis with 1500 yards. Come playoff time a broken down CP is going to be worthless.[/quote]

This is one key to the success of the season IMO. I would like to see Portis rest a good deal in the first half most games, and like you've said Matty (along w/ others) Betts is at his best when he gets several carries in a row. I say give Betts the 2nd Qtr or something like that if we're rolling along.

...one other thing i wonder is if a more complete integration into WCO will favor betts. Personally I like to see him catch the ball out of the backfield over CP...this is one area where I think Ladell punishes defenders.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=vallin21;561670]Nobody's questioning his speed or quickness, because all of that is irrelevant. The bottom line is that when he's had oppurtunities he hasn't taken full advantage of them, whether that's fumbling or getting injured (which isn't his fault). If you look at production, he really hasn't done much since '06 and that [B](could)[/B] be blamed on playing time but if he made the most out of his oppurtunities we would not have signed [B]3[/B] RB's to compete with him for the #2 job which already tells you something.[/quote]

So who said those guys were signed to compete for the #2 job? Your post is the first I'd heard of that. Don't recall any coaches or Vinny saying that.

I took those signings to be more competition for Rock, whose contract is less, and who also returns kicks. Of course, anyone can potentially take a spot, Portis' spot included.

Betts is getting up there in years so of course they're going to look to replace him in the near future, but I certainly don't think those 3 guys we signed are an attempt to replace or demote him.

Also, take a look at Portis' numbers in the 2nd half of the year, since it seems that's what you're doing w/Betts. The running game fell off big time. Do you blame that all on Portis since his "production" dropped?

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=freddyg12;561681]So who said those guys were signed to compete for the #2 job? Your post is the first I'd heard of that. Don't recall any coaches or Vinny saying that.

I took those signings to be more competition for Rock, whose contract is less, and who also returns kicks. Of course, anyone can potentially take a spot, Portis' spot included.[/quote]

Yup same here, I don't see any of those guys as a real threat to Betts at all. In reality it would be a bit of a surprise to see any of them make the team.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=freddyg12;561681]So who said those guys were signed to compete for the #2 job? Your post is the first I'd heard of that. Don't recall any coaches or Vinny saying that.

I took those signings to be more competition for Rock, whose contract is less, and who also returns kicks. Of course, anyone can potentially take a spot, Portis' spot included.

Betts is getting up there in years so of course they're going to look to replace him in the near future, but I certainly don't think those 3 guys we signed are an attempt to replace or demote him.

Also, take a look at Portis' numbers in the 2nd half of the year, since it seems that's what you're doing w/Betts. The running game fell off big time. Do you blame that all on Portis since his "production" dropped?[/quote]

Last time I checked competion is when a bunch of guys compete to see whose the best, so if Betts looks bad in Training Camp and in Preseason you wouldn't think someone like Marcus Mason who could paly better than Betts, would then battle for the #2 job? You have to understand this is a "what have you done for me lately league" and Betts hasn't done alot when given the oppurtunity. No one should automatically assume anyone has a spot just because "Vinny said it in the offseason" or because Betts has been a #2 back for a few years, because things change. It doesn't matter what the coaches says in June, because this is the Offseason! Alot of coaches say shit in June, but their dead wrong come September. Until Training Camp starts we won't know anything about where the RB lineup stands. As for Portis I never compared Portis to Betts because that's irrelevant, all I said was when Betts is in the lineup he has been average at best.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=vallin21;561664]His versaltility is his main strength, but he's been just mediocre after his good year in '06. I'm really hoping one of those backs we signed (Aldridge, Dorsey, Mason) step and become the #2 behind Portis.[/quote]
How can you say he has been just average when he has not really had anough chances to judge him. It like they just throw him out there on a wim several times a game. They need to design a game plan that involves Betts and his strengths. I was actually surprised when he signed a new deal with us knowing that CP was going to be the starter.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=vallin21;561693]Last time I checked competion is when a bunch of guys compete to see whose the best, so if Betts looks bad in Training Camp and in Preseason you wouldn't think someone like Marcus Mason who could paly better than Betts, would then battle for the #2 job? You have to understand this is a "what have you done for me lately league" and Betts hasn't done alot when given the oppurtunity. No one should automatically [B]assume[/B] anyone has a spot just because "Vinny said it in the offseason" or because Betts has been a #2 back for a few years, because things change. It doesn't matter what the coaches says in June, because this is the Offseason! Alot of coaches say shit in June, but their dead wrong come September. Until Training Camp starts we won't know anything about where the RB lineup stands. As for Portis I never compared Portis to Betts because that's irrelevant, all I said was when Betts is in the lineup he has been average at best.[/quote]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm giving my opinion that i don't see those 3 guys as a threat to betts.

YOU assumed that they were signed to compete for the #2 spot, from what your post said, as if the coaches think Betts needs to be replaced. If what you meant to say was that they signed these guys because they want something more out of the rb position & potentially any of these guys could supplant Betts, and for that matter, Portis. Well, I agree w/you, and if you read my earlier post you'll see I mention that.

Basically anyone can be replaced at any time, but that's stating the obvious. You implied 3 guys were signed to [U]specifically[/U] compete for the #2 spot. I disagree, but it goes w/out saying that it's possible for them to earn it.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

they're not even in pads. let's see if smith says the same thing when betts gets hit and fumbles. i like betts, always have but it's ota's. i don't care about anything until pads are on.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I agree we need to spell CP, but Betts offers nothing new. I'd like to spell Portis with someone who can bring a change of pace to the offense. A scat back type of player. That's why I'm hoping Dorsey or Alridge pans out.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I think the problem is the Skins haven't really implemented a 2 back system. Gibbs pretty much gave Portis free reign as far as when he was in the game or not. When Betts was put in the Ravens game last year, Portis got upset. I think we'll see some changes this year for the good of the offense and Betts will do a good job.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561692]Yup same here, I don't see any of those guys as a real threat to Betts at all. In reality it would be a bit of a surprise to see any of them make the team.[/quote]
Unless Aldridge is terrible in camp and/or shows he cannot be relied upon in the return game I can see them sticking with him over Rock. I don't think the Zorn regime has as much loyalty to Rock as the previous coach and they have all talked about seeking more explosiveness which Aldridge brings.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=GMScud;561710]I agree we need to spell CP, but Betts offers nothing new. I'd like to spell Portis with someone who can bring a change of pace to the offense. A scat back type of player. That's why I'm hoping Dorsey or Alridge pans out.[/quote]
Why do we need a change of pace if he is good at what he does?

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=firstdown;561723]Why do we need a change of pace if he is good at what he does?[/quote]

When Betts comes in, he's a downgrade in the running game. And that's the case for any RB on our roster when compared to CP, however at least a speed guy like an Alridge or Dorsey can bring a different dimension to the offense, a la Darren Sproles. A scat back kind of player that will give opposing defenses a different look. Betts is a fumble prone, slower version of Portis. He can give us a few quality carries per game, but he shouldn't be the only RB getting touches behind CP.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=GMScud;561725]When Betts comes in, he's a downgrade in the running game. And that's the case for any RB on our roster when compared to CP, however at least a speed guy like an Alridge or Dorsey can bring a different dimension to the offense, a la Darren Sproles. A scat back kind of player that will give opposing defenses a different look. Betts is a fumble prone, slower version of Portis. He can give us a few quality carries per game, but he shouldn't be the only RB getting touches behind CP.[/quote]
I think Betts is faster then Portis.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

I would like them to use Betts and a speed guy more to spell- situational players you. As long as Betts isn't running into the linemans knees

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;561729]I would like them to use Betts and a speed guy more to spell- situational players you. As long as Betts isn't running into the linemans knees[/quote]
It was CP that always was falling down.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=firstdown;561728]I think Betts is faster then Portis.[/quote]

If you watch Betts run he's a lot of motion, arms and legs churning, but I don't think there's much debate that Portis is quicker, faster and stronger than Betts. There's a reason that one is a starter and the other is a backup.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Paintrain;561737]If you watch Betts run he's a lot of motion, arms and legs churning, but I don't think there's much debate that Portis is quicker, faster and stronger than Betts. There's a reason that one is a starter and the other is a backup.[/quote]

I'd argue that Betts is a little better when it comes to power running. Anyway watch out. With the line in better shape this year we'll be able to put virtually anyone in that backfield and do what we did at the beginning of last year. And yes I really do believe that Mike Williams is going to pan out.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;561739]I'd argue that Betts is a little better when it comes to power running. Anyway watch out. With the line in better shape this year we'll be able to put virtually anyone in that backfield and do what we did at the beginning of last year. And yes I really do believe that Mike Williams is going to pan out.[/quote]

Betts mows down DBs like a power runner, especially catching passes out of the backfield. But between the tackles he disappoints a bit IMO.

...to his defense one thing I've always noticed, though don't have any stats to back this up, is Betts seeing contact behind the LOS far more than CP does. Now it's tempting to say the reason is Betts' is slower than CP, especially on sweeps. But watch CP closely when he swings out and u notice he rarely goes hard behind the LOS until he see the play develop, so I tend to think speed isn't the issue. My guess is when Betts spells CP the OL maybe takes a little break...maybe just a bit. Defenders can sneak in more often and wrap up his legs or at least slow him down.

I partly think this way cuz in '06 once Betts became "the guy" he didn't see as much contact behind the LOS, which gave him time to get some momentum and plan his cuts. And we know how that turned out...in the 2nd half of the season Mr Betts was 2nd in yardage only to Mr Tomlinson. Now if the guy could just develop a nose for the endzone like great RBs have I'd be a pretty big Betts guy.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561676]On a good day I'd like to see Betts get at least 10 carries. Let him play a couple of series in a row to get in a groove. I'd rather see a healthy Portis at the end of the year with 1200 yards than a totally gassed Portis with 1500 yards. Come playoff time a broken down CP is going to be worthless.[/quote]

Portis is going to complain about his role no matter what so the coach needs to force a lighter workload upon him and ignore the drama.

Betts just needs to hold onto the ball. I don't know how you find ways to get him the ball at less important junctures of the game because he always seems to find the worst possible moment to fumble.

I like the idea of giving Betts a full series or two because judging him on spot duty isn't fair to him.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

My point is that when we give Betts oppurtunities he's been average. The people complaining about Betts's lack of touches have to realize he's done nothing the past 2 yrs to deserve more. He's either fumbled, been injured, or inconsistent. Aldridge or Dorsey in my opinion would be a better "change of pace" RB for our offense (Sproles) . I think this is the year Rock goes and the depth chart would look like this.
RB
1. Portis
2. Training Camp Comp between Betts and Aldridge loser gets #3

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=vallin21;561788]My point is that when we give Betts oppurtunities he's been average. The people complaining about Betts's lack of touches have to realize he's done nothing the past 2 yrs to deserve more. He's either fumbled, been injured, or inconsistent. Aldridge or Dorsey in my opinion would be a better "change of pace" RB for our offense (Sproles) . I think this is the year Rock goes and the depth chart would look like this.
RB
1. Portis
2. Training Camp Comp between Betts and Aldridge loser gets #3[/quote]

I've been saying we should get rid of Betts for over a year.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=vallin21;561788]My point is that when we give Betts oppurtunities he's been average. The people complaining about Betts's lack of touches have to realize he's done nothing the past 2 yrs to deserve more. He's either fumbled, been injured, or inconsistent. Aldridge or Dorsey in my opinion would be a better "change of pace" RB for our offense (Sproles) . I think this is the year Rock goes and the depth chart would look like this.
RB
1. Portis
2. Training Camp Comp between Betts and Aldridge loser gets #3[/quote]

I am happy to jump on the Betts is no more than average bandwagon! My reason is based on the fact that Ladell plays really really really really really really really average NFL football. I challenge anyone who is a fan of his to argue with me that he is anything more than average. It's impossible. The dude defines what it is to be NFL average. Not saying it's a bad thing for the average NFL franchises, but I am sick and tired of being in that category. We are better than that!

P.S. Ladell might be the worst running back near the goal line that has ever played for this franchise.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

We have to be fair here. Portis is a hard nosed, tough back and it just does not seem to matter how battered our O-line is... he gets the job done. If I remember correctly, our O-Line was in good shape in '06. The past two years have been extremely frustrating when it comes to keeping the fat boys healthy. NO back, except for Portis has had any success running the ball, and he played injured and pass blocked better than any of our backup linemen. I think when we have a decent line, which we do as of right now, Betts will serve as a reliable back who can "change the pace" and give CP a break every now and then. The coaches see something that we do not. There is a reason why he has not been cut, and when he and CP have 900+ yards a piece some of the critics will be so glad we kept him on. Alridge is fast, and I would love to see him as a Derrick Ward-like back (wind? or was he fire?). CP and Betts is our future.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Ladell Betts has had over 93 carries in a season once. Portis usually gets over 320 carries a season. In 2006 when Betts was used as a starter because of Portis's injury, he carried the ball 245 times and averaged 4.7 yards per carry. The highest YPC for Portis as a Redskin? 4.3. In 2006 Betts also had 53 receptions for 445 yards. The most receptions for Portis in a year? 47 for 389 yards. Betts only started for about half the season in 2006, and had a better YPC than Portis has had in a year since joining the Redskins. In that same year when he started about half the games, he also had more receptions in a year than Portis has had in one year since Portis joined the Redskins as the starter in 2004. Gibbs didn't resign Betts to compliment Portis as much as he resigned him in case of injury. He knew if Portis went down, Betts could start without missing much. Look at the numbers. Is he a change of pace back? To a degree, but not to the degree of a Sproles. I personally don't think Sproles would be as good as a starter as he is as a change-up. It would be great if someone like Aldridge makes the team and can be used like Sproles. But if Portis goes down, I want Betts starting, not Aldridge. Nice post Stuck in TX.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=53Fan;561801]Ladell Betts has had over 93 carries in a season once. Portis usually gets over 320 carries a season. In 2006 when Betts was used as a starter because of Portis's injury, he carried the ball 245 times and averaged 4.7 yards per carry. The highest YPC for Portis as a Redskin? 4.3. In 2006 Betts also had 53 receptions for 445 yards. The most receptions for Portis in a year? 47 for 389 yards. Betts only started for about half the season in 2006, and had a better YPC than Portis has had in a year since joining the Redskins. In that same year when he started about half the games, he also had more receptions in a year than Portis has had in one year since Portis joined the Redskins as the starter in 2004. Gibbs didn't resign Betts to compliment Portis as much as he resigned him in case of injury. He knew if Portis went down, Betts could start without missing much. Look at the numbers. Is he a change of pace back? To a degree, but not to the degree of a Sproles. I personally don't think Sproles would be as good as a starter as he is as a change-up. It would be great if someone like Aldridge makes the team and can be used like Sproles. But if Portis goes down, I want Betts starting, not Aldridge. Nice post Stuck in TX.[/quote]

Good points: I also agree that if Portis goes down when need Betts to step in to fill his role as the starter. Betts is a proven player that he can handle the duties as a starting RB. As for the 3rd back we need a home run hitter like Alridge has great speed but can he translate it to the football field. Rock is solid but he doesn't help us in the running game.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Bottom line: Betts is a fumbler. That's why he's not likely to have larger role in the offense.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;561873]Bottom line: Betts is a fumbler. That's why he's not likely to have larger role in the offense.[/quote]

He's had 2 fumbles in the last 2 years you know.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

Why isn't Sproles a starter? Why did Derrick Ward end up in Tampa? Durability, experience, and leadership are all traits that Betts brings to our field and locker room. He may lack the breakneck speed of some other backups, but at least we know that when and if Portis goes down, we have a decent, reliable back who can jump in there and be a leader in our backfield. Come on Skin's fans, we were in the same division with Tiki Barber (go UVA)... we know a fumbler when we see one and Betts is not a fumbler.

Re: bigger role for Betts this year?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;561874]He's had 2 fumbles in the last 2 years you know.[/quote]

I'm sure he can bring that number up if he gets more carries.

My long-term memory is just too good. It won't allow me to trust him with the ball. BTW, Betts is horrible in pass protection, too, so it's no wonder that CP has been overworked.

As always in such cases, I would be more than happy for Ladell to prove me wrong. I hope he has a glorious, fumble-free season in 2009.