House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]To me this is a major piece of legislation that needs to be acknowledged and talked about more than it is before it's too late (for bad or good)....[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]

The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result.


Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won't pinch wallets, behind the scenes they've acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them.

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124588837560750781.html]The Cap and Tax Fiction - WSJ.com[/url]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

From what I just heard on the news they are still 12 votes short on getting this bill passed. I believe I heard 17 undecided so we know they are getting hammered to vote yes for the bill and I'm sure promises of $ going to their home town for a yes vote. I also heard that last night the Dems added another 300 pages to the bill but I'm sure everyone has had plenty of time to read those additional 300 pages.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

Im not all that up on politic lingo. I was going off this article that says the House Advances Cap and Trade bill to the Floor. I am assuming Floor is short for the Senate Floor?

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/26/house-narrowly-advances-climate-floor/?test=latestnews]House Narrowly Advances Climate Bill to the Floor - Political News - FOXNews.com[/url]

It would be great news if this does get defeated.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote]When the Heritage Foundation did its analysis of Waxman-Markey, it broadly compared the economy with and without the carbon tax. Under this more comprehensive scenario, it found Waxman-Markey would cost the economy $161 billion in 2020, which is $1,870 for a family of four. As the bill's restrictions kick in, that number rises to $6,800 for a family of four by 2035.[/quote]

As always doing analysis from a business angle and not the right and fair angle. I wonder if [URL="http://www.heritage.org/research/middleeast/iraq/iraq.cfm"]The Heritage Foundation[/URL] did the same GDP analysis with respect the Iraq war and the Wall St. Journal reported it? In 2020 our GDP is expected to be 29 trillion and while 161 billion is real money the real question should be does the cost (0.0055 % of the GDP) justify the result?

The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.


p.s. I wonder what the GDP cost of bailing out Florida every time a hurricane strikes is?

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=FRPLG;564822]Change we can believe in. Good job again America. We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. We're doomed.[/quote]

Your not the only one who feels this way.

[url=http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/09/AmericansLoveGovernment.htm]A MINORITY VIEW[/url]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564836]As always doing analysis from a business angle and not the right and fair angle. I wonder if [URL="http://www.heritage.org/research/middleeast/iraq/iraq.cfm"]The Heritage Foundation[/URL] did the same GDP analysis with respect the Iraq war and the Wall St. Journal reported it? In 2020 our GDP is expected to be 29 trillion and while 161 billion is real money the real question should be does the cost (0.0055 % of the GDP) justify the result?

The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.


p.s. I wonder what the GDP cost of bailing out Florida every time a hurricane strikes is?[/quote]
All the storms in FL over the past 5 year was probably 1/1000 the cost of NO.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=FRPLG;564822]Change we can believe in. Good job again America. [B]We elect people with bad ideas and then we get bad ideas[/B]. It's our fault. Keep voting for the guys who make you feel all warm and cozy and ignore their positions. [B]We're doomed.[/B][/quote]

Better luck next time, assuming there will be a next time.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564836]The only cost that matters to me and you is direct out of pocket cost because that's real money you will lose.[/quote]
The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;564844]The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.[/quote]

I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;564844]The out of packet cost has been estimated as low as $ 175 / yr. per family of four to $ 3K per year. Realistically the amount is likely around $ 1,000 - $ 1,200 / yr. per family.

.....but Obama wasn't going to increase taxes "not one cent" on those making under $ 250K :yeahright

and the left saw Cheney/Rove as the Emperor from Star Wars.[/quote]

Well if those are goverment figures then it will cost $175X29 (thats the goverments always uses out come based education figures correction factor)=$5,075 by the end of 2009.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564845]I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.[/quote]

No he often said just "taxes". Play semantics all you want, the message he was relaying was clear..."I'll raise taxes on rich people but not anyone else. So vote for me and the money going out of your pockets won't change." It was an unqualified notion.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=FRPLG;564849]No he often said just "taxes". Play semantics all you want, the message he was relaying was clear..."I'll raise taxes on rich people but not anyone else. So vote for me and the money going out of your pockets won't change." It was an unqualified notion.[/quote]

This is where personal responsibility comes into play and I suppose all those stupid Americans that voted for him weren't aware they were going to get screwed...what a stupid bunch. And of course there are some of us who really are for cap and trade and truly want to doom America. Democracy is a beautiful thing when you get what you want.


Let's go to the video replay:
[yt]z-SavgJlBLA[/yt]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564845]I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.[/quote]

You just don't get it do you. Elderly starts with an E. Perhaps you should worry about your own eyes. I'll defer to Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell. The link is posted in an earlier post.

The difference between you and the average schmuck Obama voter is you actually paid attention to what he said. I met a lot of people like you in college, book smart, but street stupid.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

This is an older article, but:

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/politics/cap-and-trade_cost_inflation.html]FactCheck.org: Cap-and-Trade Cost Inflation[/url]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564853]You just don't get it do you. Elderly starts with an E. Perhaps you should worry about your own eyes. I'll defer to Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell. The link is posted in an earlier post.

The difference between you and the average schmuck Obama voter is you actually paid attention to what he said. I met a lot of people like you in college, book smart, but street stupid.[/quote]

Street stupid? Always the ignorant one aren't we TTL? If you ain't know 'bout ma street creds you best as'q somebody.

[quote]You hear me speak and think I won't take it to the streets?
I know enough cats that don't turn the other cheek,
But I try to keep it civilized like Menelik and other African czars,
Observing stars with war scars.

-Lauren Hill
[/quote]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564859]Street stupid? Always the ignorant one aren't we TTL? If you ain't know 'bout ma street creds you best as'q somebody.[/quote]

If anything you sure are good entertainment.

:laughing2

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=GTripp0012;564855]This is an older article, but:

[URL="http://www.factcheck.org/politics/cap-and-trade_cost_inflation.html"]FactCheck.org: Cap-and-Trade Cost Inflation[/URL][/quote]

Very nice...I love that Obama video in the article. What a brilliant man.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564861]Very nice...I love that Obama video in the article. What a brilliant man.[/quote]

I just came across this and I thought of you.

"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses."
-- H.L. Mencken

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564860]If anything you sure are good entertainment.

:laughing2[/quote]


In my block it's all laughs and giggles until someone gets murked.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564869]I just came across this and I thought of you.

"Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses."
-- H.L. Mencken[/quote]

You aught to know who you're quoting and what they stand for.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564871]In my block it's all laughs and giggles until someone gets murked.[/quote]

Hardcore streets of Seattle? That's kind of like my amish country hood... :silly:

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564872]You aught to know who you're quoting and what they stand for.[/quote]

Stood for Saden, stood for! The man's dead. Damn your grammar is bad.
:laughing2

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564875]Stood for Saden, stood for! The man's dead. Damn[[B],[/B]] your grammar is bad.
:laughing2[/quote]

Native English speakers please stand up and let this "man" know why it's more appropriate to use stand rather than stood.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;564873]Hardcore streets of Seattle? That's kind of like my amish country hood... :silly:[/quote]

You saw "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story" movie didn't you? He grew up in my block that's why you ain't gonna find anyone tougher than that man...LOL.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564878]Native English speakers please stand up and let this "man" know why it's more appropriate to use stand rather than stood.[/quote]

Are you implying that English isn't my primary language? When I'm watching Dallas lose at FedEx Field this December I want you to do something: lean back, close your eyes, open your mouth, and picture me rolling. :pimp:

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564884]Are you implying that English isn't my primary language? When I'm watching Dallas lose at FedEx Field this December I want you to do something: lean back, close your eyes, open your mouth, and picture me rolling. :pimp:[/quote]

You've demonstrated that English is not your forte on many occasions and so I am left with two impressions of you, a) you're a stupid man or b) English is not your native language. I am also open to the possibility that both a and b are true.

I'm looking forward to the days Dallas loses in both FedEx and in that new Dallas Stadium and as much as I want to picture you rolling (preferably under a bus) I don't know how to picture someone that doesn't exist.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564845]I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax and [B]if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool.[/B] His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.[/quote]I agree 100%, none of his policies were any secret. Although they were packaged and delivered in a way that was very deceving to the "untrained eye", which IMO describes a large percentage of Obama voters. Once these lemmings begin to absorb the hit in their wallets/purses they will have buyers remorse and 2010 will be 1994 all over again.

Bottom line is the socialists in control of the federal government are making a huge power grab. This tax increase will directly affect those who the left is supposed to "look out for", the elderly, poor, disadvantaged, etc. Will the extra tax hurt the "rich", some, but it will disproportionally affect the poor and middle class.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564888]You've demonstrated that English is not your forte on many occasions and so I am left with two impressions of you, a) you're a stupid man or b) English is not your native language. I am also open to the possibility that both a and b are true.

I'm looking forward to the days Dallas loses in both FedEx and in that new Dallas Stadium and as much as I want to picture you rolling (preferably under a bus) I don't know how to picture someone that doesn't exist.[/quote]

Again you demonstrate how little you know. I graduated from Randolph-Macon College with a degree in English. I know that's not saying much since most colleges, including mine, are nothing more than expensive Marxist indoctrination camps. They churn out brainwashed dopes like you. So you can say I've a good 12th grade understanding of the only language I care to know. I have given Mandarin Chinese some thought since your Communist allies will be running the world soon.

Your sentence structure implies that the subject is still living. Your thinking of a sentence that is more like this, "Who were the Founding Fathers and what did they stand for?" Homeboy's ideals may still stand, but he's dead.

Here's the link so you can see I didn't make that one up.
[url=http://heritageofthefoundingfathers.com/]Heritage of the Founding Fathers - Welcome[/url]

You don't have to use a coma on short sentences if you don't want to. It's usually not done unless the sentence is long and needs to be broken up. It also makes you look pompous in American English. The intention is relevant too.

Again you're wrong. I'll be on the bus going to and from the game. Picture me rolling fool! :pimp:
[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ejb77L5AmI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ejb77L5AmI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564845][B]I have said this before, Obama was specifically talking about income tax[/B] and if you weren't aware that he was for cap and trade you're a fool. His policy position was no secret wouldn't you agree?

I must say though, to the untrained eye (looking in your direction TTL) your grouping of taxes makes perfect sense.[/quote]
You may want to check your sources on this one before you wind up like Johnny Ringo:

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/06/26/obamas-tax-increase-americans/"]Opinion[/URL]

From the article: In a speech on September 12, 2008 in Dover, New Hampshire, Obama said,
[B]I can make a firm pledge.[/B] Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see [B]any[/B] form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, [B]not any of your taxes.[/B]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;564908]You may want to check your sources on this one before you wind up like Johnny Ringo:

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/06/26/obamas-tax-increase-americans/"]Opinion[/URL]

From the article: In a speech on September 12, 2008 in Dover, New Hampshire, Obama said,
[B]I can make a firm pledge.[/B] Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see [B]any[/B] form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, [B]not any of your taxes.[/B][/quote]

LOOOL...I have checked my sources, did you watch the video I posted? What plan is he referring to when h says "under my plan?" Context is important and when he says "any" he is specifically referring to taxes directly taken by the feds under his income tax plan. If you want to broaden what he said to invclude taxes thats fine but don't try to make him out to be a liar.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564907]Again you demonstrate how little you know. I graduated from Randolph-Macon College with a degree in English. I know that's not saying much since most colleges, including mine, are nothing more than expensive Marxist indoctrination camps. They churn out brainwashed dopes like you. So you can say I've a good 12th grade understanding of the only language I care to know. I have given Mandarin Chinese some thought since your Communist allies will be running the world soon.

Your sentence structure implies that the subject is still living. Your thinking of a sentence that is more like this, "Who were the Founding Fathers and what did they stand for?" Homeboy's ideals may still stand, but he's dead.

Here's the link so you can see I didn't make that one up.
Heritage of the Founding Fathers - Welcome

You don't have to use a coma on short sentences if you don't want to. It's usually not done unless the sentence is long and needs to be broken up. It also makes you look pompous in American English. The intention is relevant too.

Again you're wrong. I'll be on the bus going to and from the game. Picture me rolling fool!
[/quote]

Do they have a money back guarantee policy? If they do you should ask for a refund.

Sentence in question:
"You aught to know who you're quoting and what they stand for."

There are two logical ways to read the sentence above:
1) As general advice with respect to people you quote.
2) As an implicit advice with Mencken in mind.

In both instance 1) and 2) the word "stand" is the appropriate word to use. Specifically, "stand for" is appropriate with respect to 2) because:

a) whether he is dead or not does not change what he represents (hint: beliefs are timeless, actions are not).
b) usage of "stood for" is not helpful in discerning change in beliefs (hint: the reader can be confused as to what is meant by "stood for" if they are unaware the subject is deceased).



Short sentence or not a comma is necessary because the word "damn" is an introductory word.

You is 50:
[yt]O-GYcHadiEk[/yt]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564910]LOOOL...I have checked my sources, did you watch the video I posted? What plan is he referring to when h says "under my plan?" Context is important and when he says "any" he is specifically referring to taxes directly taken by the feds under his income tax plan. If you want to broaden what he said to invclude taxes thats fine but don't try to make him out to be a liar.[/quote]
Well then you better call Obam the Liar.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y"]YouTube - Obama Pledges to Not Raise Middle Class Taxes[/ame]

And here he admits that its a tax that will get passed down to consumers and he even says it will cost a bunch of money.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsIBtwUh6Q"]YouTube - Cap and Trade: It's an Energy Tax[/ame]

You might want to check your youtube news source a little closer. Yea I'm posting on a Sat but After playing golf in the heat I need some AC time.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=firstdown;564944]Well then you better call Obam the Liar.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y"]YouTube - Obama Pledges to Not Raise Middle Class Taxes[/URL]

And here he admits that its a tax that will get passed down to consumers and he even says it will cost a bunch of money.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsIBtwUh6Q"]YouTube - Cap and Trade: It's an Energy Tax[/URL]

You might want to check your youtube news source a little closer. Yea I'm posting on a Sat but After playing golf in the heat I need some AC time.[/quote]

Let me simplify it for you...when he is talking about his income tax plan he can say "under my plan I won't raise your taxes"...when is talking about his support for cap and trade he is cognizant and admits that the cost will be passed down to the consumer. Where is he lying? Everything is on the f'ing table!!!!

Perhaps you want him to say I will raise some of your taxes when he is talking about his income tax plan? Your hateration blinds you.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

Given the fact that this bill will never pass in the Senate. it was an amazing act of selfishness on the part of Pelosi et al to force her members to support this monstrosity. They, along with the 8 GOP members who went along, will be made to suffer for their lack of vision.

[YT]4YjAaw8H9AM&feature=related[/YT]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=70Chip;564975]Given the fact that this bill will never pass in the Senate. it was an amazing act of selfishness on the part of Pelosi et al to force her members to support this monstrosity. They,[B] along with the 8 GOP members who went along, will be made to suffer for their lack of vision. [/B]
[/quote]

Not sure how they'll be "made to suffer," but I for one hate this bill, and Boehner was priceless: "Hey, people deserve to know what's in this pile of shit." LOL!

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=GMScud;564976]Not sure how they'll be "made to suffer," but I for one hate this bill, and Boehner was priceless: "Hey, people deserve to know what's in this pile of shit." LOL![/quote]
Boehner is postioning himself for a VP or Presidential Candidate down the road !

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

I suppose if there's anyone that knows shit best it's Boner for he is well trained in the art of sodomizing the American people.

Looking at the weasel go! "We got to stop this."

[yt]4gDoUCsPPCA[/yt]

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=saden1;564947]Let me simplify it for you...when he is talking about his income tax plan he can say "under my plan I won't raise your taxes"...when is talking about his support for cap and trade he is cognizant and admits that the cost will be passed down to the consumer. Where is he lying? Everything is on the f'ing table!!!!

Perhaps you want him to say I will raise some of your taxes when he is talking about his income tax plan? Your hateration blinds you.[/quote]

I think you need to watch the video again when he is saying he will not raise any type of tax's on people making under 250g. I guess its Ok for him to slide around this by taxing other ways knowing that it will end up taxing these people. You guys voted for him and your the ones who bought this load of crap and he has broken tons of his campain promises and you guys say o well. I guess the ones who voted for him knew it was a load of crap to start with.

Re: House advances Cap & Trade bill
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;564907]Again you demonstrate how little you know. I graduated from Randolph-Macon College with a degree in English. I know that's not saying much since most colleges, including mine, are nothing more than expensive Marxist indoctrination camps. They churn out brainwashed dopes like you. So you can say I've a good 12th grade understanding of the only language I care to know. I have given Mandarin Chinese some thought since your Communist allies will be running the world soon.

Your sentence structure implies that the subject is still living. Your thinking of a sentence that is more like this, "Who were the Founding Fathers and what did they stand for?" Homeboy's ideals may still stand, but he's dead.

Here's the link so you can see I didn't make that one up.
[url=http://heritageofthefoundingfathers.com/]Heritage of the Founding Fathers - Welcome[/url]

You don't have to use a coma on short sentences if you don't want to. It's usually not done unless the sentence is long and needs to be broken up. It also makes you look pompous in American English. The intention is relevant too.

Again you're wrong. I'll be on the bus going to and from the game. Picture me rolling fool! :pimp:
[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ejb77L5AmI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ejb77L5AmI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT][/quote]

Where'd you go to grad school? Sorry, not really relevant I know, I was just trying to remember