criticism of Brunell
 

Gibbs seems to be pretty annoyed at the media bashing Brunell a bit this week. I was just wondering what you guys thought of all this. Wilbon of the Post and Daly of the Times both ripped Brunell pretty good on Tuesday morning and personally I was kinda surprised considering the numbers he put up, 25/43 for 325 yards, 2 TD's and no INT's.

Granted he got off to a very slow start, but I thought he finished up very strong and made some great plays along the way. He also seems to be getting comfortable in the offense and getting some rapport going with his receivers.

Personally I thought the criticism was a little sharp and not justified. Yeah he made some poor throws in the first half, but once he got going I thought he proved he can still be a playmaker in this league. And I definitely don't agree with people saying he has a weak arm, he zipped a few passes and showed he can still make the tight throw when he has to.

I saw a QB settling into the offense and making plays, guys like Wilbon and Daly think he's washed up, I still don't get it, maybe I'm missing something, what do you guys think??

I'm with you Matty. Especially being a huge Ramsey fan, I can find no critisims of Brunell for his play on monday. Dispite the fact that we got off to a slow start, we still should have had a couple drives go further, but COles dropped the passes. Brunell was dynamite in the second half. That play that he threw the TD to gardner where he juked out that Dlinemen was classic.

Those numbers would have looked better if not for the dropped passes. Also, and I might be wrong about this, but I think some of those early deep passes were to soften the defense underneath. And it even seemed like a couple of times the deep throws were just to try to get a pass interference call.

And after the questionable Portis catch when Brunell hurried everybody back to the line to get the next play off before a challenge could be made-that's the type of key play that can't be measured by stats

Anyway, I don't think he's washed up by any means

I completely agree, Matty (I was thinking of starting this sort of thread). First, what's with all the hate in the press? They really seem to have it in for Brunnel! All the local papers seem to be in agreement. What, did they have a media huddle and decide they needed a QB problem to sell papers?

He threw well on the run, he didn't have an INT, he had two TDs, and lots of yards. He threw the out well, I thought. The first one that Coles droped he zipped out there and hit him in the chest. The running throw to Cooley was very nice. And even the papers had to admit his TD to Gardner was pure old-school Brunell. Finally, as Gibbs had to point out to the reporters in his press conference yesterday, lots of his "bad" throws out of bounds were just that: he was throwing it away. They practiced all week to avoid turnovers (they had none), and Brunell is criticized for firing the ball out of bounds. Look, if Gardner gets out of bounds (or if they call the helmet-to-helmet), they tie the game. And then who knows. If they won it Brunell, with Gardner, are the big heros. So I don't get the "he's lost it" chorus.

I'm not saying he's Theisman, Mark II, but he can make the thows this offense needs. And we shouldn't overlook his leadership qualities. I think the players respect him and follow him. He got up after five sacks and some tough hits, and almost pulled it out after a tough first half, and some brutally bad calls. Ok, we need some Ws to make it all mean something, but the team did not quit, and the QB was a big part of that.

I think in the second half Brunnel finally started to get some rythme. He def. mad. some good decisions on monday night simply throwing the ball away. That doesn't always look pretty, but its a vetern thing to do and is better than throwing a pick. I still believe that Brunnel is nothing more that a buffer, untill patrick is ready. Which to me is gonna be in about a year. If were gonna be a super bowl team i believe its gonna be with Ramsey.

[QUOTE=skins009]I think in the second half Brunnel finally started to get some rythme. He def. mad. some good decisions on monday night simply throwing the ball away. That doesn't always look pretty, but its a vetern thing to do and is better than throwing a pick. I still believe that Brunnel is nothing more that a buffer, untill patrick is ready. Which to me is gonna be in about a year. If were gonna be a super bowl team i believe its gonna be with Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

I agree, if Brunell want's to prove his worth he has to become more consistant, is it him, or is it the fact that he's still learning, and getting comfortable in this new system? We have to see improvement every week, if defenses start respecting our passing game, that should open up the run game for Portis, we haven't scared anyone with our passing game until the 4th quarter of monday night's game. I do think Brunnell under the right circumstances can win a SB with Gibb's, let's face it, if William's, and Rypien, can do it, so can Brunell, but I believe Ramsey is the guy who will really shine in the end.

I agree with all of you guys........just imagine if we would've won that game. I bet everyone would be praising Brunell.

Somtimes I just dont understand where this stuff ( from the media ) gets started. I mean its absolutley ludacris to critizie him like they have, after watching the game on Monday. Somtimes I wonder if they even watched the game. In that second half he looked friggin awsome. He proboly played better than most of the QB's in the league this week, with exceptions of course. Seriously though, his first half performance wasent that bad, and the second half he just tore it up. I just dont get it...

In the past haven't people on this site said that Brunell is washed up? I wonder if Monday has changed their minds

i only said i hadn't seen him throw a deep pass and hit a receiver and i needed to see that before i was comfortable. With those numbers i have absolutely no arguement for ramsey right now ;) we can win with brunell and he'll be there unless he's not able.

I think the negative media stuff is because those papers go to print around 10-11 or so, and it was a late game... usually they write all sorts of articles (skins win, dallas wins, etc)... and its all completely based off the first half, with 1-2 sentences on the end of the game and the score updated within 5 minutes of it being published... I think that's what this was... they saw the first half and had 15 minutes to write an article. At least, that's what i'm hoping...

On the last pass to Gardner Williams hit him with a helmet-to-helmet shot. Didn't get called. If it had we'd have tied the game and probably won.

Point being that Brunell didn't do much wrong, the WR's and line didn't play up to his level.

right, but until his final 8 passes he only had 175 yards... last 8 passes had 6 completions and 150 yards, so if the articles were written before that point, it'd help explain why they were so damn harsh.

we had 4 bad bad calls, dallas had 1 (the portis crawl)... terrible officiating.

[QUOTE=That Guy]right, but until his final 8 passes he only had 175 yards... last 8 passes had 6 completions and 150 yards, so if the articles were written before that point, it'd help explain why they were so damn harsh.

we had 4 bad bad calls, dallas had 1 (the portis crawl)... terrible officiating.[/QUOTE]

That call could have been challenged by dallas, so really it wasen't nearly as bad as the call's that went against us, the ref's tied our hand's behind our back's, we had no opportunity to challenge, as well, the significance of the call's are night and day.

alright fess up, who said he's washed up?

Let's hear your reasoning.

In reference to the Portis call, now correct me if i'm wrong, but it appeared that a person made contact with Portis and then after that person's contact with Portis ended (w/o his knee ever touching the ground) THEN Portis's knee touched the ground. Now, I thought that the rule was that a player's knee can touch the ground as long as no one touches him while his knee is on the ground.

So what exactly is the rule?

Brunnel, ever since we picked him up, reminds me of the veteran QB from Any Given Sunday. He is that pro that just knows exactly what he's doing and he knows how to lead the team. He may not be as physical a specimen as he was in his earlier years, but I think his mental growth has more than offset that.
Ramsey is a good quarterback, but he needs to sit back, learn, and watch a really smart QB go out there and make plays so that he can become a great QB.

I don't think he's washed up, but I certainly don't believe he's worth the price we're paying. He's finally gotten something going and I'm happy to see it. He's going to teach Ramsey a lot.

I agree with the "Any Given Sunday" thing, winskins. I thought that a bit, too. But Ramsey is no Willie Beamen, for good or ill. And does that make Danny Snyder into Cameron Diaz? Ouch. ;)

[b]i think brunnell has played very well this year,other than the 2 fumbled handoffs returned for tds.the receivers dropped a lot of passes they should have caught,and a lot of his incomplete passes were throwaways.i agree with gibbs,people need to chill off brunell.it's not like he threw 3 ints to wide open dbs is it?(i know one qb who did though.)[/b]

He's done. He can't push the ball downfield anymore. He doesn't take chances unless the game is on the line and it takes like 10 mins to drive the ball with him on the field. I think he is washed up and I know he's not playing well this year. I have disappointed with everything I've seen from him this season. If he can keep up the last 5 mins of the Dallas game, I may sing a different tune, but for now, he's a 42 million dollar mistake.

Mark Brunell is doing exactly what he was brought here to do. He has shown how to lead this team. The hurry up offense after the Portis catch was a good example. We watched him handle a blitzing defense all night and take a good shot which caused him to fumble. To go from 2 turnovers to no turnovers against Dallas is impressive. Brunell is going to continue big the confidence of his receivers that he can throw the ball where it needs to be thrown. He even put some juice on a couple of throws. I think he was starting to feel it. Wilbon is a passionate fan of the Redskins who wanted to see the Redskins scalp the Cowboys and probably lost a bet on the game.

I also thought he looked rusty through the first 2 games and the 1st half of the Dallas game. But I think a big part of that is the new offense, which is struggling as a whole. He showed me a lot in the 2nd half, most importantly that he can throw the ball downfield with authority. That 2nd TD pass to Gardner was a beautiful thing. MB reminded me of Steve Young on that one.

There's always a lot of discussion about the QBs here, but personally I think the QB situation is the least of the teams worries. Sorry, second least, after coaching.

[QUOTE=JWsleep]I agree with the "Any Given Sunday" thing, winskins. I thought that a bit, too. But Ramsey is no Willie Beamen, for good or ill. And does that make Danny Snyder into Cameron Diaz? Ouch. ;)[/QUOTE]

lol...yeah Ramsey isn't a replica of steamin willy beamen, but they are kinda on the same boat (maybe not in the same ocean though). As for Dan Snyder being a Cameron Diaz...I might not even have words to add :doh:
:laughing-
:httr:

In a chat before the Monday night game, Wilbon explained that when writing a column about a Monday night game, he writes it during the game, on the fly, because the column is due 10 minutes after the game ends. So, when he bashed Brunell on Tuesday, I think it was because Brunell *started* the game poorly. Wilbon probably began his column with that angle, and indeed, Brunell looked shaky in the 1st half. He didn't really rally until late in the game, which was admirable, of course, but Wilbon probably couldn't rewrite his entire column at that point. I'm not a big Mike Wilbon fan, but given the circumstances, I don't fault him as badly as Gibbs did for his piece.

that's exactly why i said it was soo harsh ;) thanks for the confirm... remember, brunell got 150 yards IN HIS LAST 8 PLAYS.

Regardless of when these critical articles were written, the fact is they were in the papers the next morning for everyone to see. Imagine if the Skins pulled the game out? How bad would those articles have looked then?

that happens though... some paper printed an article saying the losing team had won the stanley cup last year.

[QUOTE=jdlea]He's done. He can't push the ball downfield anymore. He doesn't take chances unless the game is on the line and it takes like 10 mins to drive the ball with him on the field. I think he is washed up and I know he's not playing well this year. I have disappointed with everything I've seen from him this season. If he can keep up the last 5 mins of the Dallas game, I may sing a different tune, but for now, he's a 42 million dollar mistake.[/QUOTE]

So your saying that a 92 yard drive isn't moving the ball downfield? Please! He took chances downfield, and he made some great throws. Too bad the receivers dropped about 5 or 6 of those passes.

I don't know what your seeing, but to me it looks like he's adjusting and getting better every week. Maybe you need to pay a little more attention to the positives......

My only criticism of brunnel is that its seems that he predetermines his reciever before the play starts. it didn't look like he went through a check through of all other recievers. If the guy that he picked to throw to wasn't open he would just throw it away. did anyone else see that?

I say we never should have traded for Brunell!
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]i only said i hadn't seen him throw a deep pass and hit a receiver and i needed to see that before i was comfortable...[/QUOTE]

After seeing the deep throw, I still think Brunell doesn't unload fast enough!

You put Brunell's head on Ram, and you might have something! HOF Coach Gibbs sees something in Brunell that I don't! But, that's why he is in the HOF, and, well.....I'm....uhhh.....just.... looking... to get my ........ummmm...........wheelchair..... uhh..... down the hall!

We pay value for effort, and I haven't seen it! Others have better arms, Brunell has a head for the game, certainly, but not the arm!

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]So your saying that a 92 yard drive isn't moving the ball downfield? Please! He took chances downfield, and he made some great throws. Too bad the receivers dropped about 5 or 6 of those passes.

I don't know what your seeing, but to me it looks like he's adjusting and getting better every week. Maybe you need to pay a little more attention to the positives......[/QUOTE]

I saw this to an extent, but I think when you get put under the pressure that Brunnel was put under during that game that you don't always have time to make all the reads. However, I think he did a pretty good job of getting the ball where it needed to be. I think sometimes Brunnel would get the ball in the right place and things just didn't seem to happen. Overall, I have to say that I think he ran our offense pretty effectively.

i dont think i've seen Brunell have the time and space to set and really sling it out yet. i could be wrong, just seems that way. seems like we're not the only blitzing team out there, and our Oline is always being tested.

i do think Brunell AND Ramsey hold the ball too long, but i'm wondering if that has more to do with our receivers getting open, or getting to where they're supposed to be. Gardner's not exactly a speed demon, and our speed demon is playing through a toe injury...

what i did see was Brunell rollout, sidestep a sure sack, and throw a LASER to Gardner for a TD. cool as ICE. he definitely can still play.

i think our offensive woes stem from the Oline still jelling and possibly our receivers not getting open enough, quickly enough. our talent at QB, and RB really shouldnt be questioned.

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]My only criticism of brunnel is that its seems that he predetermines his reciever before the play starts. it didn't look like he went through a check through of all other recievers. If the guy that he picked to throw to wasn't open he would just throw it away. did anyone else see that?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and what was the result? No INT and another chance to run another play. I am happy to see a veteran QB at work. If you have a blitzing defense in your face most of the game it is difficult to check to see if other receivers are open. His main receiver was Gardner and Dallas knew that. Dallas was not able to get and INT and that says a lot about Brunells ability to wait patiently for Gardner to separate.

personally,i think wilbon and kornholeser are living proof that jackasses can breed in captivity without females.what do they know?i think brunnell has played as well as just about any other 37 year old qb in the league.he's had a lot of dropped passes,and he has damn sure played a lot better that mr int man patrick ramsey has.

I saw him drive 92 yards and it took forever, first of all. Second, "push the ball downfield" means throwing it deep. I didn't see any dropped passes deep, I only saw him overthrow or throw out of bounds until the end of the second half. Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the whole game.

[QUOTE=jdlea]I saw him drive 92 yards and it took forever, first of all. Second, "push the ball downfield" means throwing it deep. I didn't see any dropped passes deep, I only saw him overthrow or throw out of bounds until the end of the second half. Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the whole game.[/QUOTE]

So, how long do you think a 92 yard drive should take? You're making no sense........

I'm not wasting my time with you...... :sleep:

In Brunnel's defense, he doesn't call the plays which can cause for a slow drive. Gibbs loves to play possession ball. I don't know how many of his passes he feels are covered deep or doesn't feel he can make an advised throw into so he dumps it off, if he can play at all like the 2nd half of the Cowboys game consistantly, I have no complaints. Except the fact we still paid him too much cash!

Daseal, what will make Brunell worth the $$ to you? Playoffs, Super Bowl? Just curious what you think it will take for him to be worth it, or is the price tag above anything that could happen?

I think the increase we got in QB compared to the cap hit/3rd rounder doesn't equate to a "win." I want to see if he can maintain a consistant performance. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see much in the way of arm strength, and his decesion making has been very questionable at times. As has Ramsey's, but he hasn't been working with the #1 unit all year.

If Brunell is able to show up like he did against the Cowboys in most of the games (well, the 2nd half of the Cowboys game) then he was a strong pickup. If not... uh-oh!

What I think he has a weak arm and is old!!! We need Ramsey to grow up or a free agent QB or draft one!!!!