Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/15/last-season-jim-zornsredskins-swan-dived/]Zorn's 'soft' comment doesn't bode well | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]




I think Zorn is right in every way on this one, there is no reason any team should get DOMINATED in a preseason game! It's a joke to think our guys really tried Thurs.. I hope shit changes soon.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Well, I'm sure he's trying to light a fire under them...let's see what happens.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

I'm sure Angry can relate as well as I can.

When your people don't respond to normal methods of leadership, you have to go a little more extreme. As Jsarno said, it will light a fire under them. Keep up the good work Zorny.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

He's right. The non-starters did play soft. Whether it was nerves or confusion I don't know, but he's correct in what he's saying. They need to get up to speed and I think he's just letting them know.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Yeah!!! I am tired of them being soft.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

I think Zorn's offense is soft.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

This really is not a big deal. I didn't even see in the article where Zorn called his guys soft. He just said the depth/bubble guys need to pick up their game cuz it ain't college. Sheesh.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

The whole team needs a kick in the @$$.. including ol Zorny imo

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

It's pre-season and i put no real value in it other than finding depth in your team. I would agree with the soft comment though.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Ravens definitely looked as though they played with more heart. But who knows, its the pre-season.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;576310]I think Zorn's offense is soft.[/quote]

This is the billion dollar question for the skins. Is it the players not showing up or the system itself?

I think the answer also includes the structure and the strategy of the front office.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Well the Ravens just have a vitality we don't have right now. They're a home grown team with a lot of depth.

Maybe Coach Zorn's comments will light a fire. I know that one important part of what really lights a fire under a team is a sense that you are always in contention to have a starting job, and that if you play well enough, you'll be the starter. Your play is what determines whether and how much you play.

At the quarterback position, Jason Campbell, a good person with respectable talent, got installed as quarterback, but I think he should have lost his job permanently to Todd Collins after the way Collins played at the end of 2007. Collins earned the starting job. But the Redskins wanted to put Campbell back in as a starter at the beginning of 2008, and closed the competition from the onset.

Then, after the season, deciding they'd made a mistake, the upper management goes gangbusters to try to trade the house to get a new quarterback in the offseason, ignoring Todd Collins and a potential star in Colt Brennan on their own roster.

All of this sends a very de-motivating message to players in my view. You can play your heart out and do superb, like Todd Collins, but it doesn't effect whether you'll play. That's for upper management to make a decision about.

You can be a budding potential star like Colt Brennan, but you can find yourself on a team ready to make huge sacrifices to bring on some shiny player from afar at your position.

If you want players to play hard, one of the keys is setting up a situation where there is a direct connection between how hard and well they play and whether and how much they play.

Otherwise you get players who play soft. There already are fabulously well paid free agents at the position you're playing at. You know you don't have a chance. You know that the players you're playing with are there because they were brought here or installed here. You know that the effort isn't what is paramount.

The Baltimore Ravens are built on the draft; they aren't a handpicked team. They play with a great deal of energy and passion because they know that is what gives them the opportunity to start. Starters aren't installed - they are always challenged.

I hope Jim Zorn is able to remake this team. I like Jim Zorn and I think he has a ton to offer. But the thing is that the coach is another replaceable part. He could easily be dumped for yet another new coach (how many have we had here?). How many coaches have the Pittsburgh Steelers had since 1969? Three coaches.

OK, time to step down from my soapbox!

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Jay Cutler has a far better arm than Todd Collins and better ability to extend the play with his legs than Todd Collins. He also is a mechanically sound QB and thus can put the ball in the right place. That is how much Collins is outclassed by Cutler.
Not to mention Collins had the noteriety last year to be mentioned in media reports as stuggling badly in training camp while JC was showing competence. At least that didn't happen this year and he's shown comfort in the WCO.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;576335]Jay Cutler has a far better arm than Todd Collins and better ability to extend the play with his legs than Todd Collins. He also is a mechanically sound QB and thus can put the ball in the right place. That is how much Collins is outclassed by Cutler.
Not to mention Collins had the noteriety last year to be mentioned in media reports as stuggling badly in training camp while JC was showing competence. At least that didn't happen this year and he's shown comfort in the WCO.[/quote]

You mean Campbell?

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Baltimore's training camp is a pretty intense camp w/ lots of hitting. The skins camp is a pretty relaxed one compared to many around the league. I don't know which is better, i think it depends on the team. Our's might be better as intense.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=The Trigga;576336]You mean Campbell?[/quote]
Yeah. I don't use abbreviations for Jay Cutler.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Well, it might get more intense this week. I think Zorn has wanted to avoid the burnout and injuries which hit the team late last season by not being too intense too early. But, after the other night, he seems pissed, so maybe he'll amp up the volume now.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Why do folks continually post links from PFT? Where did Zorn use the word "soft"? Did I miss something? Another case of PFT just trying to get hits.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576342]Why do folks continually post links from PFT? [B]Where did Zorn use the word "soft"? Did I miss something?[/B] Another case of PFT just trying to get hits.[/quote]

You sure did, the presser. For your reading pleasure.

They did play soft as Zorn stated (and all watched) and he's spot on! Or the score board would not have been 23-0.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/As_Backups_Struggle__Questions_On_Depth_Arise_46929.jsp]As Backups Struggle, Questions On Depth Arise[/url]

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Westover;576332]Well the Ravens just have a vitality we don't have right now. They're a home grown team with a lot of depth.

Maybe Coach Zorn's comments will light a fire. I know that one important part of what really lights a fire under a team is a sense that you are always in contention to have a starting job, and that if you play well enough, you'll be the starter. Your play is what determines whether and how much you play.

At the quarterback position, Jason Campbell, a good person with respectable talent, got installed as quarterback, but I think he should have lost his job permanently to Todd Collins after the way Collins played at the end of 2007. Collins earned the starting job. But the Redskins wanted to put Campbell back in as a starter at the beginning of 2008, and closed the competition from the onset.

Then, after the season, deciding they'd made a mistake, the upper management goes gangbusters to try to trade the house to get a new quarterback in the offseason, ignoring Todd Collins and a potential star in Colt Brennan on their own roster.

All of this sends a very de-motivating message to players in my view. You can play your heart out and do superb, like Todd Collins, but it doesn't effect whether you'll play. That's for upper management to make a decision about.

You can be a budding potential star like Colt Brennan, but you can find yourself on a team ready to make huge sacrifices to bring on some shiny player from afar at your position.

If you want players to play hard, one of the keys is setting up a situation where there is a direct connection between how hard and well they play and whether and how much they play.

Otherwise you get players who play soft. There already are fabulously well paid free agents at the position you're playing at. You know you don't have a chance. You know that the players you're playing with are there because they were brought here or installed here. You know that the effort isn't what is paramount.

The Baltimore Ravens are built on the draft; they aren't a handpicked team. They play with a great deal of energy and passion because they know that is what gives them the opportunity to start. Starters aren't installed - they are always challenged.

I hope Jim Zorn is able to remake this team. I like Jim Zorn and I think he has a ton to offer. But the thing is that the coach is another replaceable part. He could easily be dumped for yet another new coach (how many have we had here?). How many coaches have the Pittsburgh Steelers had since 1969? Three coaches.

OK, time to step down from my soapbox![/quote]I don't necessarily agree with the player assessments, but boy is this an excellent post.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;576344]You sure did, the presser. For your reading pleasure.

They did play soft as Zorn stated (and all watched) and he's spot on! Or the score board would not have been 23-0.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/As_Backups_Struggle__Questions_On_Depth_Arise_46929.jsp"]As Backups Struggle, Questions On Depth Arise[/URL][/quote]Didn't see the presser or check the Skins site for that quote, thanks. However, I think folks are reading way too much into the first pre-season game and the "soft" comment, which IMO was directed toward hesitant play of backups due to being unsure of the scheme or player responsibility rather than "being soft".

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Is Bill Cowher available? We need a leader of men, not a coordinator. Nobody got cut today after that shit-fest last night, and that's disappointing. Softness and toughness starts at the top. There's plenty of talent on the Skins roster, right now we're just not a unit.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576349]Didn't see the presser or check the Skins site for that quote, thanks. However, I think folks are reading way too much into the first pre-season game and the "soft" comment, which IMO was directed toward hesitant play of backups due to being unsure of the scheme or player responsibility rather than "being soft".[/quote]

I agree. PFT took an ordinary comment and tried to make it sound absolutely ominous and others here have done the same.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=shack;576355]Is Bill Cowher available? We need a leader of men, not a coordinator. Nobody got cut today after that shit-fest last night, and that's disappointing. Softness and toughness starts at the top. There's plenty of talent on the Skins roster, right now we're just not a unit.[/quote]

Just throwing that out as bait?

Zorn is our coach this season. No one else need apply.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Westover;576332]Well the Ravens just have a vitality we don't have right now. They're a home grown team with a lot of depth.

Maybe Coach Zorn's comments will light a fire. I know that one important part of what really lights a fire under a team is a sense that you are always in contention to have a starting job, and that if you play well enough, you'll be the starter. Your play is what determines whether and how much you play.

At the quarterback position, Jason Campbell, a good person with respectable talent, got installed as quarterback, but I think he should have lost his job permanently to Todd Collins after the way Collins played at the end of 2007. Collins earned the starting job. But the Redskins wanted to put Campbell back in as a starter at the beginning of 2008, and closed the competition from the onset.

Then, after the season, deciding they'd made a mistake, the upper management goes gangbusters to try to trade the house to get a new quarterback in the offseason, ignoring Todd Collins and a potential star in Colt Brennan on their own roster.

All of this sends a very de-motivating message to players in my view. You can play your heart out and do superb, like Todd Collins, but it doesn't effect whether you'll play. That's for upper management to make a decision about.

You can be a budding potential star like Colt Brennan, but you can find yourself on a team ready to make huge sacrifices to bring on some shiny player from afar at your position.

If you want players to play hard, one of the keys is setting up a situation where there is a direct connection between how hard and well they play and whether and how much they play.

Otherwise you get players who play soft. There already are fabulously well paid free agents at the position you're playing at. You know you don't have a chance. You know that the players you're playing with are there because they were brought here or installed here. You know that the effort isn't what is paramount.

The Baltimore Ravens are built on the draft; they aren't a handpicked team. They play with a great deal of energy and passion because they know that is what gives them the opportunity to start. Starters aren't installed - they are always challenged.

I hope Jim Zorn is able to remake this team. I like Jim Zorn and I think he has a ton to offer. But the thing is that the coach is another replaceable part. He could easily be dumped for yet another new coach (how many have we had here?). How many coaches have the Pittsburgh Steelers had since 1969? Three coaches.

OK, time to step down from my soapbox![/quote]

You are correct sir.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576349]Didn't see the presser or check the Skins site for that quote, thanks. However, I think folks are reading way too much into the first pre-season game and the "soft" comment, which IMO was directed toward hesitant play of backups due to being [B]unsure of the scheme or player responsibility rather than "being soft"[/B].[/quote]

I disagree. Even if your lost in the scheme or player responsibilty, go out there and knock someone down. Ravens ROOKIE Oher, in his [B]first NFL game[/B] pancaked a few of our veterans. Our backups that have been on the team for a couple of years did not. Being physical is a combination of skill, confidance and desire. Our backups lack the last two.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Although I like Zorn here was my take....

Softness starts at the top as someone else said. Again I was not impressed with Zorn's play calling or schemeing. Wait I should preface by saying I know they supposedly don't scheme for preseason but they should start. Going into a game blind and hoping everything will work out is BS. Schemeing gives the coaches a chance to practice as well, it puts the team in a best situation to win, and they can pick the players they want to use on certain plays. The play calling from starters on down sucked.

I know Gibbs was all about not showing his hand as far as plays go and would be vanilla during preseason, then it would take 2-3 games for the team learn the plays Gibbs kept secret and work as a team. Other teams come out and play their game, use their plays in the playbook and the Skins don't. The plays other teams are using are good plays and the teams are saying this is us try and stop us knowing full well teams will have a hard time stopping them. Campbell and Zorn admitted they had only 50 plays last yr which by mid season I'm sure other teams figured out what we were doing. Supposedly according to Campbell we now have 130 plus.....where are they? I saw the same BS plays....screens, and 5-10 yrd passes. Especially when we needed 12-15 yrds.

Campbell had all day to throw, sometimes 5-7 seconds and no one to throw to? Who's coaching the WR's. On that note who's coaching the TE's and teaching ball controll? Ball controll is a fundamental skill.....someone forget to get back to basics in camp?

Our running game was our strong suit last yr and I was not impressed with any of the runs in the 1st preseason game. The blocking has got to get better or our passing will need to step up and be the staple of the team which we have not seen yet.

Defensively I'm not worried. I'm not sure what Blache was doing but game planning and schemeing was not there and of course AH will make a difference as well as Orakpo. It was painfully obvious they were letting certain players stay out for extended periods to experience but they look tired and needed to rest periodically. The defense got walked on in the 3rd and 4th quarter cause the same players stayed out there for the most part and the offense again went 3 and out quicker then a lightening strike.

I know it was preseason I'm just not impressed from the top down. Yet again.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Bill Cowher was a good coach but he only won one SB in like 16 years!! If you give Zorn 16 yrs who know's what he could do. And Cowher coached in a Historically Awful division...

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=redsk1;576338]Baltimore's training camp is a pretty intense camp w/ lots of hitting. The skins camp is a pretty relaxed one compared to many around the league. I don't know which is better, i think it depends on the team. Our's might be better as intense.[/quote]

There's a trade-off. It's softness vs. injuries. If you look at the Ravens camp they lost their starting RT and their 4th WR for the year. They also have had a lot of other injuries, like D Mason and Cousins and Suggs, and I'm sure more but I don't follow the Ravens that closely. Hopefully Zorn and the team will amp themselves up more for the next game and stay injury free.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;576345]I don't necessarily agree with the player assessments, but boy is this an excellent post.[/quote]

this makes 2 excellent post

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=SBXVII;576369]Although I like Zorn here was my take....

Softness starts at the top as someone else said. Again I was not impressed with Zorn's play calling or schemeing. Wait I should preface by saying I know they supposedly don't scheme for preseason but they should start. Going into a game blind and hoping everything will work out is BS. Schemeing gives the coaches a chance to practice as well, it puts the team in a best situation to win, and they can pick the players they want to use on certain plays. The play calling from starters on down sucked.

I know Gibbs was all about not showing his hand as far as plays go and would be vanilla during preseason, then it would take 2-3 games for the team learn the plays Gibbs kept secret and work as a team. Other teams come out and play their game, use their plays in the playbook and the Skins don't. The plays other teams are using are good plays and the teams are saying this is us try and stop us knowing full well teams will have a hard time stopping them. Campbell and Zorn admitted they had only 50 plays last yr which by mid season I'm sure other teams figured out what we were doing. Supposedly according to Campbell we now have 130 plus.....where are they? I saw the same BS plays....screens, and 5-10 yrd passes. Especially when we needed 12-15 yrds.

Campbell had all day to throw, sometimes 5-7 seconds and no one to throw to? Who's coaching the WR's. On that note who's coaching the TE's and teaching ball controll? Ball controll is a fundamental skill.....someone forget to get back to basics in camp?

Our running game was our strong suit last yr and I was not impressed with any of the runs in the 1st preseason game. The blocking has got to get better or our passing will need to step up and be the staple of the team which we have not seen yet.

Defensively I'm not worried. I'm not sure what Blache was doing but game planning and schemeing was not there and of course AH will make a difference as well as Orakpo. It was painfully obvious they were letting certain players stay out for extended periods to experience but they look tired and needed to rest periodically. The defense got walked on in the 3rd and 4th quarter cause the same players stayed out there for the most part and the offense again went 3 and out quicker then a lightening strike.

I know it was preseason I'm just not impressed from the top down. Yet again.[/quote]

and this completes the trifecta

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Defensewins;576367]I disagree. Even if your lost in the scheme or player responsibilty, go out there and knock someone down. Ravens ROOKIE Oher, in his [B]first NFL game[/B] pancaked a few of our veterans. Our backups that have been on the team for a couple of years did not. Being physical is a combination of skill, confidance and desire. Our backups lack the last two.[/quote]

His "pancake" of Wynn was a takedown and should have been called holding.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Looks like thing became less "soft" in an intense practice today, during which D.Hall and Marko mixed it up:
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/hall-mitchell-tangle-in-more-i.html]Redskins Insider - Hall, Mitchell Tangle in More Intense Practice[/url]

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

Let's see how next game goes and see if they pick it up

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=rypper11;576396]His "pancake" of Wynn was a takedown and should have been called holding.[/quote]

There was so much holding going on by the Ravens it was rediculous. Especially against Orakpo. Everytime he made it into the back field he was held and the Refs wouldn't call it. I counted a holding call on just about every running play the Ravens ran but no call. I'm not trying to be a sour puss cause even I know the Skins played bad but the holding was easily seen. and I also agree the "Pancake" of Wynn although impressive was or should have been if not holding then unsportsman like conduct. I was so happy to see the Raven walk off with a cut to his head for his stupid move.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=htownskinfan;576375]and this completes the trifecta[/quote]


Nice to see you could add to the discussion. Thanks. come again next week.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=SBXVII;576464]Nice to see you could add to the discussion. Thanks. come again next week.[/quote]

Affirming someone's post is adding to the discussion. That is part of what a discussion is. Making a senseless criticism of a fellow board member, on the other hand, is not what I call adding to the discussion.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

I'm torn on what Zorn did (because I want to like him - being, he IS the redskins head coach). If he did this to motivate his team, then I'm all for it. But I think it was wrong for him to call out his players (in the media) if he was just saying what was on his mind.

Personally, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - but he's been known to be candid when it comes to talking to the media.

And for those that want to downplay Zorn calling his players "soft" (assuming it is his true opinion and not a motivation tactic) - it [B]does[/B] start with the head coach first. Some of the responsibility should be put on the player to be aggressive and be ready to play, but when the lack of energy or readiness to play involves several players - then the majority of that blame and responsibility should fall on the head coach - whether it be "soft" practices or a lack of motivation from Zorn.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=hooskins;576330]This is the billion dollar question for the skins. Is it the players not showing up [B]or the system itself[/B]?

I think the answer also includes the structure and the strategy of the front office.[/quote]

That's a great point. I was thinking about this the other day -- define our offense. Can anyone do it?

Are we a running team? Portis' number of carries would suggest so, but that's not how a 'West Coast' offense typically operates. Then we have Jason Campbell as our quarterback who has a cannon for an arm. He did nothing but throw ICBMs downfield at Auburn which is what fit Joe Gibbs' offense best. Then last year we go out and draft three pass catchers in our first round.

I get the feeling that the players don't really know what their true identity is as an offense. And maybe Zorn doesn't either.

Re: Zorn calls team "Soft"
 

[quote=Westover;576489]Affirming someone's post is adding to the discussion. That is part of what a discussion is. Making a senseless criticism of a fellow board member, on the other hand, is not what I call adding to the discussion.[/quote]

I'm sorry I must have missed the "affirmation" when he wrote ...

[B]"and this completes the trifecta."[/B]

Since it does not appear he's "affirming" anything I wrote I presume it is some sort of sarcastic joke that I didn't get, but it makes me happy someone understood it;) Keep on "Affirming."