CB option to look at ?
 

After the performance of Tryon & Barnes ... and Westbrook, and so on...

maybe this might be a guy to pick up and test due to experience...

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4405102"]NO Saints waive veteran CB Jason David[/URL]

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

What an ironic thread

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

just one preseason game. lets continue to develop our drafted talent...with three guys at that position who are ahead of these young guys on depth chart, I dont like adding age to that position at this time.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Jason Davis is workse then Torrence ever was. He is the same as Tryon.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

LOL

Hey our guys suck. Let's pick up a guy that was cut after one preseason game, before the Saints even had to cut down to 75, let alone 53!

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

absolutely amazing!

talk about over reacting to an absolute meaningless game. come on people, ease up. Your starting to act like Danny

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

I played CB back when I was in the 4th grade, maybe I'd be worth looking at.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

we should develope our draft picks, but if tryon, barnes, and westbrook show us nothin on saturday, then maybe we should go after chris mccallister or patrick surtain.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Yes Tryon can be developed don';t give up on him yet. But Jason David is a vet he shouldn't be at Tryon's level.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

We don't need more CB's. We're pretty set:

Rogers
Hall
Smoot
Tryon/Barnes...well, hopefully they can pick it up a little.

Damn, maybe we do need some depth. Smoot's not going to make it a full 16 games. Rogers either. Not David though, he's not very good. Hopefully our youngs can pick it up a little.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

I agree we need a veteran CB, but not Jason David...

Mike McKenzie, Ty Law and Chris McAllister are still FA's and would be an upgrade

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Does Levi Jones play CB? Can we say it and bring him in that way?

;)

I would bring
Levi Jones
Marcus Washington
Derrick (?) Brooks

and maybe a few others before I would consider bringing another CB into camp.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

David is F ing Trash!!!! Why would u even bring him up?

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Our problems are not at cornerback.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;576730]Does Levi Jones play CB? Can we say it and bring him in that way?

;)

I would bring
Levi Jones
Marcus Washington
Derrick (?) Brooks

and maybe a few others before I would consider bringing another CB into camp.[/quote]

Man I couldn't agree more w/ this. Our depth at LB is paltry. We have just two legit OTs on the roster (Samuels is the only legit LT).

Jones and Marcus would make my preseason a happy place LOL.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

while this thread is ironic due to the saints just cutting this dude, cb may be an area of serious concern, especially if Rogers calf is really nagging him.

I don't know whether it's good or bad that Smoot is currently way outplaying the young guys, barnes & tryon. I love Smoot & hope he's found a step he lost, but by the end of last year he didn't look like he could keep up w/most teams' 3rd wr.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=ChickenMonkey;576729]I agree we need a veteran CB, but not Jason David...

Mike McKenzie, Ty Law and Chris McAllister are still FA's and would be an upgrade[/quote]

mcallister is big & can probably be an effective 3rd/slot corner.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=freddyg12;576741]while this thread is ironic due to the saints just cutting this dude, cb may be an area of serious concern, especially if Rogers calf is really nagging him.

I don't know whether it's good or bad that Smoot is currently way outplaying the young guys, barnes & tryon. I love Smoot & hope he's found a step he lost, but by the end of last year he didn't look like he could keep up w/most teams' 3rd wr.[/quote]


Smoot is a veteran corner who knows the system. He also was pretty good in '07. He certainly isn't a bum like David.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Signing David would be a desperation move and we're not there... yet. Besides this is just 1 game out of 4, and there are [B]MUCH[/B] better FA options than David.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

It's pre-season game 1 don't over-react.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Lol you're saying we should just give up on our third round draft pick cornerback after one lousy performance in the pre-season?? huh?

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;576771]It's pre-season game 1 don't over-react.[/quote]

too late for most ppl

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Schneed10;576708]LOL

Hey our guys suck. Let's pick up a guy that was cut after one preseason game, before the Saints even had to cut down to 75, let alone 53![/quote]

I don't buy into that line of thought. I mean as it relates to this player I agree with you but it's not like coaches and scouts are right all the time. Otherwise guys like Kurt Warner and Tom Brady would have been top overall picks.

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NO WAY! I live in Saint Country. Ive seen this guy each week on tv. This is not a guy we need to look at. Saint fans have been calling for his head for a long time now. Just my 2

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=redsk1;576724]We don't need more CB's. We're pretty set:

Rogers
Hall
Smoot
Tryon/Barnes...well, hopefully they can pick it up a little.

Damn, maybe we do need some depth. Smoot's not going to make it a full 16 games. Rogers either. Not David though, he's not very good. Hopefully our youngs can pick it up a little.[/quote]

Smooty is past his prime and you need a sure thing CB to shore it up a bit. Yeah develop the youngsters for sure, but damn do you really want to have a sieve for a defensive backfield for maybe 2 more seasons trying to develop these guys? In short we do need an ace in the hole til these guys develop, if they do develop that is. This was a rather weak draft for overall talent.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is [U]27 YEARS OLD[/U].
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;576845]OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is [U]27 YEARS OLD[/U].
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...[/quote]


Dude, I know you put in a lot of time with this post but let's think about this real quick.

Who is the DC in NO? What type of defense does he run? So let me get this straight. The coordinator in New Orleans who runs a defense that is pretty damn close to what we run cuts a guy two weeks before the first cut date?

I think I will pass...

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

So, because N.O. wanted to cut salary ... ("The economics do come into consideration," Sean Payton said. "It was best for us to move on.") ... & G Williams said they could let him go means he's not good enough to even be a nickel corner now?

After 5 INTs & 11 PD last year??

OK, well... at least that's a response based on your logic... thank you for that at least (for real, no sarcasm in that)

From what I understand, the Saints wanted to get rid of him before Williams even got there this off-season because he gave up a bunch of big plays (plays over 30-40 yards) the past 2 years against those #1 receivers (where's the safety help? lol)... the only reason they kept him was to make sure Malcolm Jenkins (14th overall pick) wasn't a bust. Jenkins has looked good in camp... J. David, gone.

He wouldn't be asked to cover any #1s (or #2s) here... and we DO run a different coverage scheme from his last DC (that was fired!)... so ... as an option, I think I'll take him.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;576845]OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is [U]27 YEARS OLD[/U].
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...[/quote]

I'll agree with you. I think there are definitely positives to bringing him in. I think he's better than Tryon right now. The only thing is there's a limited number of spots. They're probably gonna take 5 DBs. I don't think the Redskins will cut their 4th rounder of last year or their 3rd rounder this year. That's like admitting that they drafted poorly or developed the talent poorly.

I understand you're frustration though. Every other post lately is Tryon can't succeed in this league, he's too short, we might as well cut him. Then when you propose a solution to the problem everybody acts like they never said that. It's a logical point. If any of the top 3 corners got injured for us I'd be more comfortable putting in Jason David than Justin Tryon this year, but personally I've liked what I've heard about Tryon's attitude and work ethic and hopefully it will show up soon in his game performance.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;576713]I played CB back when I was in the 4th grade, maybe I'd be worth looking at.[/quote]
lol, thats too funny

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;576845]OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is [U]27 YEARS OLD[/U].
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...[/quote]Correction on the designation: Randall Gay was the Saints' no. 1 corner last year. He took over as the No. 1 corner when Mike McKenzie was hurt. So David, who came into last year as the Saints nickleback, was forced into the starting lineup when McKenzie was injured AND after their second round pick, Tracy Porter, tore out his knee. David started 6 games at the end of the season when the Saints had literally no one else to put out there, even Leigh Torrence got two starts for them in weeks 16 and 17.

He was, predictably, terrible. But more significantly than that, offenses and quarterbacks KNOW that he's terrible (56 targets in only 14 games and 6 starts). Maybe the Ravens knew that Tryon was the weak link of our defense. Looked like it. Still, it's tough to say that we're not better off with the relative unknown compared to the proven failure.

The worst case scenario for a guy like Tryon is that he becomes what David currently is: an easy completion who offers the occasional INT off the poorly thrown ball and nothing else. In two years, that's exactly what Tryon might be in this league. If we fail to develop him, it could happen.

At age 27, David isn't old, but he's as good as he's going to get at the position. He might not be in decline for 3-4 years, but when you are Jason David, you aren't exactly going to be in the league long enough to reach that point.

His NFL career is probably over, but hey, Morlon Greenwood got signed yesterday instead of Derrick Brooks, so who knows.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[LIST][*]Justin Tryon, a native Californian out of the Pac-10, was the 124th overall pick in 2008.[*]Jason David, a native Californian out of the Pac-10, was the 125th overall pick in 2004.[/LIST]
Fun stuff. Here's the closest comparables to Jason David's career, according to PFR:

Terry Fair, Jack Morris, Clarence Chapman, Kelly Herndon, Bryant Salter, Brodney Pool, Al Campana, Madieu Williams, Ifeanyi Ohalete, Josh Bullocks

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;576845]OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is [U]27 YEARS OLD[/U].
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...[/quote]

1. Sorry for calling the thread ironic but I actually confused you with hail_2_da_skins

2. If you had all these great facts why didn't you bring them up in the first post

3. I've got no problem with cutting Westbrook at this point and letting that experiment end but too early in my opinion to let Tryon and Barnes walk

4. Don't be fooled by the interceptions. He got burned repeatedly for big, big plays. As recently as this past weekend when he got burned on a couple of 50 yard pass plays by the Bengals

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

The Saints were #23 in pass D last year, the Skins were #7.

Not sure the Saints are the garbage heap we want to be picking from.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

At 27 the guy has peaked and was just cut from a lousy secondary. We have 2 guys with potential. This guy is not gonna crack the top 3 guys we have, so why even bother? Even though the young guys got beat the FIRST preseason game, you got to allow them to grow. Now the O-Line on the other hand (you know these threads always go back to the O-Line) you could add some depth there in the second team by looking at some vets in free agency....

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Way to come back on this thread Hail, good stats you provided.

I remember seeing David get picked on big time by Manning in the opener a couple years ago after the Saints had signed him, other than that I don't recall seeing him much. You have to admit that the timing of his cut makes him look pretty bad. If it were for cap reasons only, he would've been gone already.

As for those saying it's "too early to give up on Tryon & Barnes" we're all playing faux GM here. This might be the most meaningful thread we've had the last week or so. If there is a change made at CB before camp is out (and I see that as a good possibility) then this thread is worthwhile.

Plus, it might not be a matter of "giving up" on the young guys. They may decide to practice squad one of them & sign a vet to be the #4 corner. That wouldn't mean they're giving up on them, just that they think they're not ready.

I wish Tryon looked like he could play cb in the nfl, but he never has in preseason action. If he's not better after game 2, it might be best for them to cut him & sign a vet asap.
If we sign David by the end of camp, we'll all owe you an apology!

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

[quote=Chico23231;576918]At 27 the guy has peaked and was just cut from a lousy secondary. We have 2 guys with potential. This guy is not gonna crack the top 3 guys we have, so why even bother? Even though the young guys got beat the FIRST preseason game, you got to allow them to grow. Now the O-Line on the other hand (you know these threads always go back to the O-Line) you could add some depth there in the second team by looking at some vets in free agency....[/quote]

I think it's the other way around; backup CBs will get playing time even when the 2 starters are healthy. Backup O linemen will only get snaps w/the offense if someone is hurt.

Not saying we don't need depth on the o line, we've needed an infusion of youth for a few years now, but CB is a position which generally rookies & 2nd year guys can contribute immediately in. The team has essentially banked on Tryon & Barnes as the 4th & 5th cb, and both need to be able to play this year.

IMO, if Tryon doesn't look better by the 3rd preseason game, I don't see him ever becoming a dependable man to man cb.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Hey, I gotta say, I really appreciate the much better responses since my last post... these responses are why I check this site daily throughout the year since 2004. (I don't post much, but I LOVE reading the quality discussions on here)

I have a LOT more to say on THIS subject, but... I'll TRY to narrow it all down... lol

* We need a #3/#4 cornerback [I]RIGHT NOW, FOR THE 2009 SEASON[/I], not one we can "develop" while he KILLS us every week

* Our current 3/4 is Smoot/Tryon/Barnes mix?

* A guy who had the 3rd most INTs in the NFL [U]LAST YEAR[/U], with 5, isn't in their class?? ...Yet EVERYONE complains about our lack of turnovers...

* I am NOT in the J. David fan club, in fact, I don't think he's a good/great CB and am completely open to ANY CB who can come in and play the nickel... as a PROVEN OPTION over COMPLETELY UNPROVEN Tryon/Barnes & 30 yr old Smoot...

* It's so hilarious for people to act like Tryon's a rookie and only played one bad game and forget he was here ALL last year and got toasted ALL pre-season last year & wasn't evaluated as good enough to step foot on the field by OUR defensive coordinator for the entire 2008 season... it's not one game, it's a year-and-a-half body of work.

* In the end, An23dy is the most right... I don't see the team keeping more than 5 CBs nor do I see them cutting Tryon or Barnes because of their age and picks used. I don't see Smoot being cut due to his locker room influence, so I guess it's a all moot point anyway... (good job of wasting your time Hail... lol)

And hey... I hope the Tryon Kool-Aid drinkers prove me wrong!! Really!! That'd be GREAT news for us!! I just don't see any "magic fairy godcorners" tapping him on the head and making him a quality starter in the NFL.

... yeah, that's why I don't post much... like Dave Matthews says "So much to Say, So Much to Say" hahaha ... HTTR!

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Well we're apparently not looking to make a roster move at corner, so the question is not [I]who[/I] is going to make the team. It's who on the team should be [I]playing[/I] in critical situations.

Right now, that probably shouldn't be Tryon. In two weeks, we might think differently.

Re: CB option to look at ?
 

Justin Tryon actually played quite a bit on defense last year (not just on special teams). He was in a lot of dime (and a few nickel packages)