This Is One Scary Clock
 

I have never seen this before and its scary to watch.

[URL="http://www.usdebtclock.org/"]U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time[/URL]

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Actually I have seen a dept clock before just not one that breaks it out in details like this.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Another boogeyman in the closet.

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[quote=Angry;577059]Another boogeyman in the closet.[/quote]

Except this one is real, and:

- is a major contributing factor in inflation

- is a major contributing factor to rising costs of borrowing money (interest rates go up)

- is the primary contributing factor to reduced yields on short term investments, such as money market funds

Governmental spending is the proximate cause of all of this and must be curtailed or the piper will come calling in the form of much higher taxes.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577059]Another boogeyman in the closet.[/quote]Except this one is real and has been put into over-drive by the current Administration's budget.

Bush = $ 500B deficit, pretty damn bad

Obama = $ 1.6T deficit (at a minimum), really, really, damn bad.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

or for those iphone aficionados:

there's an app for that:
[url=http://www.appsafari.com/news/5591/national-debt-clock/]National Debt Clock - iPhone Apps, iPhone 3G apps and iPod touch Applications Gallery appsafari.com[/url]

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Let me guess, you guys are afraid that the Chinese are going to enslave you when they come to collect the money that we owe them?

Shit, I should be afraid to cross the street too huh?

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[quote=Angry;577085]Let me guess, you guys are afraid that the Chinese are going to enslave you when they come to collect the money that we owe them?

Shit, I should be afraid to cross the street too huh?[/quote]I couldn't care less about the Chinese as long as we have smarter, better weapons. However, I do worry about a serious tax increase and the financial burden being placed on my son, nephew, niece and eventual grand children. What is so wrong with the government only spending what it has to spend (Balanced Budget Ammendment). Did you look at the "Interest on the Debt" item, take that away and we can provide health insurane vouchers for millions of people (or smarter, better weapons like killer satellites).

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[quote=Angry;577085]Let me guess, you guys are afraid that the Chinese are going to enslave you when they come to collect the money that we owe them?

Shit, I should be afraid to cross the street too huh?[/quote]
Still have checks in the checkbook? Must be ok to keep on writing them, right?

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[quote=Hog1;577130]Still have checks in the checkbook? Must be ok to keep on writing them, right?[/quote]

Don't use checks anymore. I know how to balance my budget, bank account, and mattress. I see the national debt is not preventing you from writing personal checks though.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

just..............checking

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[quote=Angry;577085]Let me guess, you guys are afraid that the Chinese are going to enslave you when they come to collect the money that we owe them?

Shit, I should be afraid to cross the street too huh?[/quote]

Nah, we will just follow California's example and just give iou's, I am sure China will hold them in good esteem. Did you not notice when China was pushing to get the dollar replaced as the world currency, why do you think they want that? just being silly i guess.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577085]Let me guess, you guys are afraid that the Chinese are going to enslave you when they come to collect the money that we owe them?

Shit, I should be afraid to cross the street too huh?[/quote]

Said the guy who knows squadoosh about economics.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Here's a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What happens if the US just says, we're not going to pay anybody and anyone who has a problem with that can talk to the Department of Defense? Is our GNP insufficient to pay for our various programs, if you take all lending out of the picture?

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;577215]Here's a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What happens if the US just says, we're not going to pay anybody and anyone who has a problem with that can talk to the Department of Defense? Is our GNP insufficient to pay for our various programs, if you take all lending out of the picture?[/quote]

This is basically what the deficit is. We are spending more than what we take in, hence we borrow to make up the difference. And some reasonable level of deficit spending is not an awful thing, certainly we expect that our country will not suddenly lose it's ability to produce wealth, which is why other countries are willing to lend to us in the first place. The debatable question is what is a reasonable level of deficit spending. And should the country ever be forced to balance its books, even if its only every couple years.

If we did as you suggest, and certainly we could, it would change our role in the world. Do you think anyone would trust the US dollar, buy US goods, or believe that our military was defensive in nature(not that they all do now, but I am speaking of countries like the EU/Japan, those who treat us as good faith partners).

So even though we could, we shouldn't.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Just about all people in the US if they own a home run on a deficit but that is usually just a 2 to 3 times our anual income. The problem here is that the goverment seems to always run in a deficit and at some point it has to stop.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Schneed10;577147]Said the guy who knows squadoosh about economics.[/quote]


Even the guys that know about economics don't know squadoosh about economics.

Edit: You are right I know less than most. At this time I am just going to refrain from making any more comments about the world financial clock, our national debt or economics. Ignorance is bliss and at this point this stuff doesn't scare me. Maybe it should but honestly I don't care.

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I'm surprised it didn't just explode when President Obama signed his Spending Package.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Government debt = future taxes.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;577067]Except this one is real and has been put into over-drive by the current Administration's budget.

Bush = $ 500B deficit, pretty damn bad

Obama = $ 1.6T deficit (at a minimum), really, really, damn bad.[/quote]

if anybody remembers what happened to the russians after they left afghanistan.they were broke from all the military spending to conduct all their wars and compete against us in the cold war.All that money we spent in the last 6 months to bail out the big banks could have been given to the people to pay down those bad mortgages so people would not leave that house and there would be no need to forclose.But the system is corrupt and broken with few chances of repair.FOOTBALL AND BEER TO ALL AMEN

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577244]Even the guys that know about economics don't know squadoosh about economics.

Edit: You are right I know less than most. At this time I am just going to refrain from making any more comments about the world financial clock, our national debt or economics. Ignorance is bliss and at this point this stuff doesn't scare me. Maybe it should but honestly I don't care.[/quote]

If you're going to be blissfully ignorant, just refrain from voting so you don't contribute to the country's problems.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;577215]Here's a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What happens if the US just says, we're not going to pay anybody and anyone who has a problem with that can talk to the Department of Defense? Is our GNP insufficient to pay for our various programs, if you take all lending out of the picture?[/quote]

It's not dissimilar to someone deciding not to pay back a student loan. You can do it, but your credit will take a major hit, and any time you want to borrow money for something ever again you'll pay a much higher interest rate.

If we blow off China, the next time we need to borrow money from someone (and we will) we'll have to pay a much higher interest rate. It would crush us in the long run.

The only way we can go without borrowing money from people is if we cut governmental spending to the point that we're no longer running a deficit. Which is a lot.

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[quote=Schneed10;577342]It's not dissimilar to someone deciding not to pay back a student loan. You can do it, but your credit will take a major hit, and any time you want to borrow money for something ever again you'll pay a much higher interest rate.

If we blow off China, the next time we need to borrow money from someone (and we will) we'll have to pay a much higher interest rate. It would crush us in the long run.

The only way we can go without borrowing money from people is if we cut governmental spending to the point that we're no longer running a deficit. Which is a lot.[/quote]

That's along the lines of what i had assumed, but I know nothing about macro economics. So, given that defaulting isn't a legitimate option, when do we put the breaks on spending? Always kills me that the gov operates like a teenager with their first credit card... Anyway, thanks for the info.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Schneed10;577341]If you're going to be blissfully ignorant, just refrain from voting so you don't contribute to the country's problems.[/quote]


There are so many other issues that I am not ignorant about. I pick the ones that matter most to me and I still vote. Even the Almighty Schneed cannot care about absolutely everything. Everyone is blissfully ignorant about something.

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[quote=BleedBurgundy;577343]That's along the lines of what i had assumed, but I know nothing about macro economics. [B]So, given that defaulting isn't a legitimate option, when do we put the breaks on spending?[/B] Always kills me that the gov operates like a teenager with their first credit card... Anyway, thanks for the info.[/quote]Hopefully the American people put the breaks on in fall 2010 by voting fiscal conservatives into office and the Republicans regain control of the House at a minimum.

P.S. I know many of the current crop of Rs has been anything but fiscally conservative so hopefully they get the boot in the primaries (unlikely).

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577345]There are so many other issues that I am not ignorant about. I pick the ones that matter most to me and I still vote. Even the Almighty Schneed cannot care about absolutely everything. Everyone is blissfully ignorant about something.[/quote]

Well, I'll put it this way, the debt issue has the potential to put a lot more people out of a job, and make things more expensive to buy. That's as simple as I can put it.

How anyone can care about any issue more than that one (aside from wars) is beyond me.

I don't buy that you don't care. I think it's more that you're intellectually lazy, can't understand how the debt could possibly affect you, and don't want to take the time to figure it out. You better hope someone fixes the problem for you, because if you don't care now, you'll care then.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577345]There are so many other issues that I am not ignorant about. I pick the ones that matter most to me and I still vote. Even the Almighty Schneed cannot care about absolutely everything. Everyone is blissfully ignorant about something.[/quote]
Can I get a REEE-TARDED here?????

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;577343]That's along the lines of what i had assumed, but I know nothing about macro economics. So, given that defaulting isn't a legitimate option, when do we put the breaks on spending? Always kills me that the gov operates like a teenager with their first credit card... Anyway, thanks for the info.[/quote]

Gotta put the brakes on spending ASAP. That involves cutting wasteful programs, extending the Medicare and Social Security ages to 67, etcetera.

Need to get new administration and new congress who won't spend. Don't care if they're Dems or Reps. Just spend less.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Schneed10;577341]If you're going to be blissfully ignorant, just refrain from voting so you don't contribute to the country's problems.[/quote]
You mean like the bums off the street and the people the dems have to teach how to vote that they bus in for each election. LOL

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Schneed10;577342]It's not dissimilar to someone deciding not to pay back a student loan. You can do it, but your credit will take a major hit, and any time you want to borrow money for something ever again you'll pay a much higher interest rate.

If we blow off China, the next time we need to borrow money from someone (and we will) we'll have to pay a much higher interest rate. It would crush us in the long run.

[SIZE=4]The only way we can go without borrowing money from people is if we cut governmental spending to the point that we're no longer running a deficit. Which is a lot.[/SIZE][/quote]

Now your catching on. Here is the answer to the problem.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Saden, can you please explain to the above posters how the deficit is an imagined problem, and that we are free to spend forever and ever amen.

Thanks.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;577378]Saden, can you please explain to the above posters how the deficit is an imagined problem, and that we are free to spend forever and ever amen.

Thanks.[/quote]Unfortunately saden's side of the aisle isn't the only one who's at fault here.

[URL="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_52/b3914021_mz007.htm"]What Killed Off The GOP Deficit Hawks?[/URL]

Although Obama is making the snowball go much faster and grow much larger.

[URL="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/"]Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures » The Foundry[/URL]

Good comprehensive article about the deficit and debt. However, it was written before the national debt balloned to over $ 11T.

[URL="http://www.heritage.org/Research/budget/bg2178.cfm"]Ten Myths About Budget Deficits and Debt[/URL]

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Didn't mean to imply sadens side was the only ones at fault. He has made an ardent case that the deficit is a false fear, figured he could do that here as well.(I don't believe it and think both sides have gone punch drunk)

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

I don't claim to be an expert at this, but as I understand it, U.S. savings bonds are a portion of the national debt. So to refuse to pay off the debt would piss off quite a bit of Americans who've stocked away savings bonds.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

Yeah, I think the bonds are just one more way of "borrowing" money. I'm not sure, but I think foreign countries buy those up too.

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[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;577470]Yeah, I think the bonds are just one more way of "borrowing" money. I'm not sure, but I think foreign countries buy those up too.[/quote]

Yes, true on both counts.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

OK I have done some research. I must say that I was not fully aware of the sitaution. I am not saying that I am an expert either. You guys have a valid point. Calling me a retard and intellectually lazy may not have been the preferred route, but it got my attention.

Anyway, as serious as the deficit is, it is almost foolish to think that anything can be done about it without serious cuts in Defense Spending and SS/Healthcare programs.

Going back to my original post which I ignorantly blurted out, I would like to retract it. I ask this question though "What can really be done, and how much of that can we really do?" We cannot fly a jumbo jet from the toilet seat in the back of the plane.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577501]OK I have done some research. I must say that I was not fully aware of the sitaution. I am not saying that I am an expert either. You guys have a valid point. Calling me a retard and intellectually lazy may not have been the preferred route, but it got my attention.

Anyway, as serious as the deficit is, it is almost foolish to think that anything can be done about it without serious cuts in Defense Spending and SS/Healthcare programs.

Going back to my original post which I ignorantly blurted out, I would like to retract it. I ask this question though "What can really be done, and how much of that can we really do?" We cannot fly a jumbo jet from the toilet seat in the back of the plane.[/quote]

Props to you for reconsidering your stance, not everyone is willing to do that. There are definitely things we can do to reduce spending but none of them are things everyone in the nation will agree on. They are hard decisions but ones we have to make:

- Increase the Medicare and Social Security eligibility ages.

- Privatize social security so that we can earn a better return on our investments.

- Cut Medicare and/or social security benefits.

- Trim defense spending.

- Cut welfare benefits.

- Trim the prison system via much shorter sentences allowing for prison closures and layoffs.

- Ensure one-time spending tied to Obama's economic recovery act does not repeat itself.

And lots others but those are the biggies.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

[quote=Angry;577501]OK I have done some research. I must say that I was not fully aware of the sitaution. I am not saying that I am an expert either. You guys have a valid point. Calling me a retard and intellectually lazy may not have been the preferred route, but it got my attention.

Anyway, as serious as the deficit is, it is almost foolish to think that anything can be done about it without serious cuts in Defense Spending and SS/Healthcare programs.

Going back to my original post which I ignorantly blurted out, I would like to retract it. I ask this question though "What can really be done, and how much of that can we really do?" We cannot fly a jumbo jet from the toilet seat in the back of the plane.[/quote]
I think this is the biggest issue most thought out people have with the new "public option"/health care reform. Outside of defense spending the other two main drags on spending are SS and Medicare. Two great social systems we "just had to have". We're saddled with these piece of crap gov't run systems, which are both on the constant verge of utter failure, that cost more and more money each year. Neither works great for what it is intended to do. Neither is very efficient at all. And now we "just have to have" health care reform with a gov't run system that is going to cost as much or more in the long run as these two shit box systems?!?! Why is this hard for people to understand? The gov't not only can't do this it won't even get close to succeeding. And it is only going to cost boat loads of money. Money we don't have. Plus the proposals don't do anything to really address the "problems" with our health care system. Mainly that it costs a lot to get good medical care.

Re: This Is One Scary Clock
 

That's impressive that our debt is 1 million dollars every 38 seconds. How many other countries could pull that off?

Although, I guess Obama was right after all...he changed our debt...it's getting worse! haha.