Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582488]Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.[/quote]

Well, we have 2 solid DEs, and lost the best SLB we had to age. Orakpo has the talent to do both this year, and fills a need that lets us put him in in a lot of situations. We also use a "3-3-5" at times, and he can fill in nicely there.

But really, was there a LB whose overall talent exceeded Orakpo's at 13? I don't think so.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Beats me.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Brian Cushing taken (15), Clay Matthews taken (26) and probably Robert Ayers taken (18)

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;582490]Well, we have 2 solid DEs, and lost the best SLB we had to age. Orakpo has the talent to do both this year, and fills a need that lets us put him in in a lot of situations. We also use a "3-3-5" at times, and he can fill in nicely there.

But really, was there a LB whose overall talent exceeded Orakpo's at 13? I don't think so.[/quote]


Cushing?

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

They have been playing Orakpo all over the place. With new addition Haynesworth freaking out QB's in the middle it becomes even more problematic figuring out where Orakpo is. Some teams will try to attack him in coverage, but they still have to figure out when he actually has coverage responsibility or if he is simply looking to kill the QB.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582494]Brian Cushing taken (15), Clay Matthews taken (26) and probably Robert Ayers taken (18)[/quote]
so the best was taken at 15, or we had the option of a DE (an area of need in the next year-2 easily) that was ranked in the top 5. seems pretty straightforward to me.

Would you want the Cowboys to take a player who is a reach(cushing) or a more or less sure thing(orakpo), even if he plays slightly out of position?

Note, I don't agree with the he looks lost part. I think he has had both good and bad moments. More good will come I am sure.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

He looks far from "lost". Sure he isn't natural at it yet..but he's been a LB for what 5 weeks now?

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

I prefer him to be a DE but he has so much talent that he will be good at both, I expect him to stay at DE after a few wk's

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582494]Brian Cushing taken (15), Clay Matthews taken (26) and probably Robert Ayers taken (18)[/quote]

Ayers is a converted DE too and is not as talented as Orakpo so I fail to see how he fits. I am so glad they did not draft Cushing. He lacks pass rush skill and was already hurt and missing games early this preseason (not sure if he is still out or not, but the guy is a walking triage unit). Really can't speak much on Matthews except to say that he is not as talented a player as Orakpo either.

You have to understand the scheme, though, to understand why Orakpo actually fits nicely in both the short and long-term plans of the Redskins. Blache likes to rush the SLB and does so a lot. So you are actually looking at a player who is actually closer to a 3-4 OLB (think Demarcus Ware) than a straight 4-3 SAM. He will find himself in space at times, of course, and have to cover the occasional tight end, but really what Blache is looking for in that player is someone who can rush the passer. Plus, in the long-term Orakpo is the replacement in waiting for Andre Carter. He really is not a scheme fit for the LDE in the Redskins scheme and it is too easy to nullify the pass rush that player with offensive sets anyway. The Skins prefer to play bigger, run stoppers (Daniels, Wynn, maybe Jarmon some day) at that position. But the bottom line is that 1) Orakpo is actually a good scheme fit for what the Redskins want to do right now (whether you agree with that scheme or not), 2) he provides a long term solution at RDE, 3) he was far and away the most talented defensive player on the board at #13.

I am not sure about him looking lost on Friday because I did not single him out on most plays that I watched. I would have to go back and look again. But I would not be surprised if he did at times. I know he did appear to be looking for players rather than "feeling" them against Pittsburgh. But at other times he looked fluid in space so I actually think he will improve and is actually better right now than we had the right to expect. He certainly is a good enough athlete in space to do the things that the Redskins want him to do right now. Kiwanka looked bad when he first made the switch in 2007, but he improved and was playing well prior to his injury (and subsequent switch back to DE last year). So basically I think your analysis of Orakpo is off-base and ultimately short-sighted.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582488]Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.[/quote]

He was the best guy on the board. Better than any of the LB's you named. He'll get use to it. Not sure if he can hold up in the run game at DE. I'd put him at weakside LB but that's me.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Orakpo is versatile enough to play both positions so he plays both positions. I really don't care where he plays so long as we use him to get pressure on the QB.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582494]Brian Cushing taken (15), Clay Matthews taken (26) and probably Robert Ayers taken (18)[/quote]

cushing = injury prone
clay matthews = way too high and is a poor version of orakpo, got little playing time in college, but is the only one that comes closest to orakpo in this discussion
robert ayers= 4-3 DE, one year wonder, Definitley isn't a 4-3 OLB

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582488]Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.[/quote]

We drafted two linebackers. The reason he is out there is because he can handle it. You think the Redskins are better with Andre Carter on the bench the whole game? I have wondered why they haven't let Carter play some LB but it really doesn't matter.

Orakpo will be fine at LB and gets better at LB with every snap. I have been thinking how we will cover Witten. We may not have an answer at the moment but what team does?

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;582513]cushing = injury prone
[/quote]


He's supposedly a big time roid freak

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Taking Cushing over Orakpo should not be acknowledged. Barring injury Orakpo will be in the running for DROY.

The Cowboys have plenty of their own problems. They looked decent against the Titans but have looked pretty sorry in their other games.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

I was thinking the other day that move to draft him and switch him to a hybrid type player probably was because of Demarcus Ware & Shawn Merriman (plus our need for DE adn the upside of this pick). He has the same skill sets. But I think another small factor that played into it was making sure we can stop big backs like Jacobs. I can't wait to see Orakpo go head to head with Jacobs. Will be awesome!!

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

I cant wait to see Jacobs and Fat Albert go head on

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=saden1;582511]Orakpo is versatile enough to play both positions so he plays both positions. I really don't care where he plays so long as we use him to get pressure on the QB.[/quote]

Pretty much how I feel. He was the best talent at our spot and we need to him to stay on the field on all downs. So he gets to play SLB until its a clear passing down. It's the best use of his talent. He'd be wasted trying to stop the run anyways.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=FRPLG;582528]Pretty much how I feel. He was the best talent at our spot and we need to him to stay on the field on all downs. So he gets to play SLB until its a clear passing down. It's the best use of his talent. He'd be wasted trying to stop the run anyways.[/quote]


You know what I'm saying? I actually think he's pretty good at sniffing out a run and going after the ball carrier. He's a pretty strong fella too and you can't simply push him around like any other tweener type DE.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;582518]We drafted two linebackers. The reason he is out there is because he can handle it. You think the Redskins are better with Andre Carter on the bench the whole game? [B]I have wondered why they haven't let Carter play some LB but it really doesn't matter.[/B]

Orakpo will be fine at LB and gets better at LB with every snap. I have been thinking how we will cover Witten. We may not have an answer at the moment but what team does?[/quote]

San Fran tried that and it turned out that he was better with his hand down.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

I think Orakpo could be a decent LB but it is clear that his true tallent shines when he is on the line pass rushing.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=Lotus;582533]San Fran tried that and it turned out that he was better with his hand down.[/quote]

I know, just like Orakpo is better with his hand down. I guess the dropoff from Orakpo to Carter on the line is less then Carter to Orakpo as LB.

Btw. I predict Carter and ARE gone next year. Orakpo probably won't have to play LB after this year and between Kelly, Thomas and M&M we can dump that hideous contract.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=saden1;582532]You know what I'm saying? I actually thing he's pretty good at sniffing out a run and going after the ball carrier. He's a pretty strong fella too and[B] you can't simply push him around like any other tweener type DE[/B].[/quote]

No kidding. During the Steelers game I rewound that play over and over when he bull rushed #66 and had him airborne. Dude outweighs Rak by about 50 lbs and he just straight rag-dolled him. He's got some serious power. I think he'll be fine against the run.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Honestly I think the reason the Skins are playing Orakpo at both linebacker and DE is to cover two holes with one player. I think next offseason they'll go after a LOLB to play that spot full time and then move Orakpo to DE full time, and keep Orakpo listed as a backup at olb if the starter gets injured or something. I think they might not have enough confidence in the backup guys we have playing OLB to insert one of them in there as the full time starter.

For now though the plan is to play Orakpo at outside linebacker on rushing downs and play him at defensive end on third downs. Then he can learn the best of both positions while also getting enough pt at DE to play that full time next season.

Or I could be wrong and they think he'll really be a standout outside linebacker/pass rusher.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582488]Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

[B]Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.[/B][/quote]

You forget that when he blitzes from the linebacker position, he likely will have a running back or tight end blocking him, which is a huge advantage for Rak. In this Rak's scenario is much like another rusher who also sometimes plays in coverage who you may have heard of: DeMarcus Ware.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=GMScud;582546]No kidding. During the Steelers game I rewound that play over and over when he bull rushed #66 and had him airborne. Dude outweighs Rak by about 50 lbs and he just straight rag-dolled him. He's got some serious power. I think he'll be fine against the run.[/quote]

I believe he had 19 tackles for a loss as a senior which isn't an easy feet.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582488]Hey Guys I watch your game this week and I still don't get why your team is trying to move him to OLB in the 4-3. Orakpo looked good when he was playing as a down lineman but looked completely lost when he was used as a LB specially in coverage.

Why draft a Player with HUGE pass rushing skills and use him as a cover LB... why not draft a LB then.[/quote]

Ware can't cover either. Now what?

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

IMO as a DE on the passrush he would be limited except for an occasional stunt. As a OLB he can move around and get more favorable matchups on the rush. ie being blocked by TE's and backs instead of OT's.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

It's not unprecedented to take a pass-rushing DE out of college and see him have a great career as a linebacker.

For example, the NCAA all-time sacks leader who played DE at college and just retired after over 12 years as a [url=http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=153]linebacker[/url]

Agree with saden though, he needs to be on the field as often as possible. No matter what position he plays

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Since the knock on Andre Carter is that he's not great at run-stopping, you don't want him on one end and the 260 lb. Orakpo (who's also not known for his run-stopping ability) on the other.

I actually think Orakpo will line up in all sorts of places on obvious passing downs.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Ok I don't get why so many of you compare his possition to Ware's... they play different Schemes one is a 3-4 and the other is the 4-3 . Ware in the 3-4 is close to the line and is used in the outside againts LT TE and RB, Orakpo is i nthe 4-3 outside where he plays against TE,LT and G mostly and he's 5 yards behind the line.

Ware covers 30% of the plays at the most... Orakpo has to cover at least 50% if not more, it's not the same not even close.... Yes many DE are drafted to play LB but that's OLB in the 3-4 not the 4-3...

Ohhh and to the Giant fan that said Ware isn't good in coverage hahaha

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582617]Ok I don't get why so many of you compare his possition to Ware's... they play different Schemes one is a 3-4 and the other is the 4-3 . Ware in the 3-4 is close to the line and is used in the outside againts LT TE and RB, Orakpo is i nthe 4-3 outside where he plays against TE,LT and G mostly and he's 5 yards behind the line.

Ware covers 30% of the plays at the most... Orakpo has to cover at least 50% if not more, it's not the same not even close.... Yes many DE are drafted to play LB but that's OLB in the 3-4 not the 4-3...

Ohhh and to the Giant fan that said Ware isn't good in coverage hahaha[/quote]I also said Ware isn't good (I meant great) in coverage. Man or zone. Cooley pisses on him everytime, as he does with most LBs and DLs trying to cover him but, no offense. Ware is a beast of a player. There's no doubt about it. Let Orakpo prove what he can do this year. Something I've noticed about Orakpo, he doesn't appear as big as he's listed. Maybe it's just that he doesn't have the long wingspan as Ware or maybe it's the pads. Arrington seemed really big for a LB but, none of these observations have to do with being a gamer.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Is it just me or has Orakpo looked just fine at LB? He's not looking like a Pro Bowler at LB, but he certainly looks competent.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=saden1;582532]You know what I'm saying? I actually think he's pretty good at sniffing out a run and going after the ball carrier. He's a pretty strong fella too and you can't simply push him around like any other tweener type DE.[/quote]

Yeah I don't think he is bad at all. I think having Carter, Daniels and Orakpo on the field is a better running defense than Carter, Orakpo and xxxLB. I also think having Carter, Orakpo and xxxLB is the best pass defnse. We're in total agreement...Orakpo needs to be on the field all 3 downs.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;582659]Is it just me or has Orakpo looked just fine at LB? He's not looking like a Pro Bowler at LB, but he certainly looks competent.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;582617]Ok I don't get why so many of you compare his possition to Ware's... they play different Schemes one is a 3-4 and the other is the 4-3 . Ware in the 3-4 is close to the line and is used in the outside againts LT TE and RB, Orakpo is i nthe 4-3 outside where he plays against TE,LT and G mostly and he's 5 yards behind the line.

Ware covers 30% of the plays at the most... Orakpo has to cover at least 50% if not more, it's not the same not even close.... Yes many DE are drafted to play LB but that's OLB in the 3-4 not the 4-3...

Ohhh and to the Giant fan that said Ware isn't good in coverage hahaha[/quote]

A couple of things:
1) The Redskins have begun playing more "hybrid" schemes, mixing 4-3 looks with 3-4 and 3-3-5 looks.
2) Rak won't be playing in coverage 50% of the time, as you say, because he will be a hand-down defensive end on 3rd down and blitz sometimes on 1st and 2nd downs

So the difference between Orakpo and Ware, in terms of scheme, is actually not so great.

Now, #3: Ware does often struggle in coverage, like it or not

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

I have a feeling that we are not seeing the complete defensive package that the Redskins will use in the regular season. Looks like the Skins have been running their basic zones and man coverage schemes. I think in the regular season they will be moving Rak around more to use his versatility.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

look I'm not saying Orakpo isn't a great rusher he is and he has shown flashes at preseason but if you focus on him and please do he's still lost in coverage and he plays more coverage plays at least pre season that you would like 2....

Hey he is your guy/ future and everything i get that and I know you have to defend him but to think that right now he's not a liability out there is going out blind.... it's like me saying Roy Williams Wasn't a Liability at coverage out there each week.

Re: Still Don't get why Move Orakpo to LB
 

Actually it's more like me going to a Cowboys site, and making a thread saying Felix Jones may be an outstanding runner, but will he last the season. It may be a fair thread, but do you think I have standing to do that.

And for the record, I do go to a boys site, have discussions etc, but I would not start that thread, and if i did, the less tactful posters would just start throwing crud out there. I think everyone here has respectfully disagreed with your basic premise.

Finally, I would also say that I have watched the games, and think that he has held his own. Not probowl, but not clueless either. Will it change once the DCs start gameplanning for him, maybe so.