'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I'm easily as frustrated at today's game as any out there. That was a pathetic showing, on the national stage, against a division opponent. I was in the game chat venting my frustrations with the rest of you but I am going to take a step back in my evaluations and acknowledge a few things before 'bringing the Pain'.

It was one game, week one and we're in no worse position than half of the league at 0-1. We played the Giants, recognized by many as the or one of the best teams in the league. For as poorly as we played, we were within a touchdown going into the 4th quarter. It sucks terribly to have to deal with this upcoming week but it's not the end of the world or the season.

Ok, time to 'Bring the Pain'. I've only got one victim this week, Jim Zorn.
[B][I]
Playcalling-[/I][/B]Wow, that was the worst game I'd seen called since, well last season's opener. Some obvious examples:

[B]-Plain stupidity-[/B]How can you call a WR reverse pass on the 2nd game of the season? Any jr. high school coach knows you have to set that play up. That sapped all momentum from the opening drive. Yes, Randle-El should have thrown the ball out of bounds, but more importantly, he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with!! Terrible decisions all around.
[B]-Run/pass ratio-[/B]We trailed from the first snap the offense took yet Zorn called the game as if we held a 17 point lead. All but 3 possessions started with a run. ALL BUT 3! I understand wanting to keep the running game viable, but when you are running the ball on 2nd and 9 while you are down 2 possessions on your side off the 50 in the 4th quarter is moronic.

[B]-Having the pulse of your players-[/B]Whatever you think about Jason Campbell as a QB, one thing is known about him. He is a rhythm passer. Get him going early and in a comfort zone and he's much more successful. One thing jumps out at me about him, he's much more comfortable and confident in the shotgun. For example, he was 14-17, 171 yards, TD today from the shotgun (6-6, 70 yds on the final drive) & 5-9 for 40 yards under center. If I can recognize that from my La-Z-Boy, Zorn should recognize this as well. I think his stubbornness gets in the way of what's best for the team. I am a JC supporter so take this with a grain of salt but you can be successful with him [B][I]IF[/I][/B] you put him in positions to do so! Let him do what he does well rather than trying to make him do what you ideally want someone to do. I think good coaches tailor what they do to the players they have and what they do best, not the other way around.

[B][I]Team management and preparation-[/I][/B]Pretty terrible showing in some really basic areas. Tackling, discipline, conditioning, penalties. We weren't physically whipped, completely out schemed (aside from Blache's vanilla defenses) or out-talented. We were beat, as usual, on the little things. Lack of gap integrity, poor effort on tackles, lazy/sloppy play. One of my biggest gripes with Zorn this preseason was how little he used the starters. He was acting like we were coming off of a Super Bowl run and returning all 22 starters.

We came out with nothing and stayed that way. The Manningham TD was the type of defensive effort that gets high school coaches fired. The Boss completion late in the 4th quarter, every DL stopped their feet while the play was alive and the QB had the ball in the pocket.

Finally, one specific gripe from last season that seems to have carried on, why is Laron Landry playing 20 yards off of the line of scrimmage?!?!? If he's one of our defensive playmakers, put him in positions to make plays!!!

I still think we've got 10 win talent and will go on a nice run with some lesser teams on the horizon.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

nice post Pain i totally agree need more shotgun plays

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Great post Paintrain! The playcalling was just horrible and frustrating to watch. I thought the tackling by the secondary was freaking awful. The offense is just bad, we need something.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Chico23231;588234]Great post Paintrain! The playcalling was just horrible and frustrating to watch. I thought the tackling by the secondary was freaking awful. The offense is just bad, we need something.[/quote]

Receivers.

Moss, 2 catches 6 yards
Kelly, 1 catch 6 yards
Thomas, EL ZIPPO

But, it all begins, and ends, just look at the Giants, and we say it year in and year out, up front on the offensive line.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;588254][B]Receivers.[/B]

Moss, 2 catches 6 yards
Kelly, 1 catch 6 yards
Thomas, EL ZIPPO

But, it all begins, and ends, just look at the Giants, and we say it year in and year out, up front on the offensive line.[/quote]

You forgot one ARE the MOST productive one.....just under 100 yards.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;588254]Receivers.

Moss, 2 catches 6 yards
Kelly, 1 catch 6 yards
Thomas, EL ZIPPO

But, it all begins, and ends, just look at the Giants, and we say it year in and year out, up front on the offensive line.[/quote]

It all starts on the sideline. The Giants have one of the best OL in the game, but there are plenty of teams with worse OL (even worse than ours) that are effective in passing the ball based on their play calling.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;588254]Receivers.

Moss, 2 catches 6 yards
Kelly, 1 catch 6 yards
Thomas, EL ZIPPO

[B]But, it all begins, and ends, just look at the Giants, and we say it year in and year out, up front on the offensive line.[/B][/quote]

Campbell wasn't exactly running for his life this afternoon. Yeah, they got to him a couple of times, but the fumble by Umenyora was more a product of Jason holding the ball too long.

Seemed like the protection was basically there today.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I certainly didn't like the runs on so many first and second downs when playing from behind.

The defense needed to get off the field and could not all day. The giants ran all kind of clock and wore them out.

There were only two calls I *really* thought were bad:

First, when DeAngelo picks off that ball, the first play should be a shot into the endzone. Go for the throat on that play. That five yard loss run took the air out of us.

Second, when the giants are running clock at the end of the game well within FG range and you get a sack and a holding penalty is called, TAKE THE PLAY. Don't give them 1st and 20 and more time to run the clock and more chances.

Giants are a good team. They seemed unfazed by the loss of two good WRs and their D is better than last year. We started very slow last year as well. As you say, no need to hit the panic button yet. Calling for Campell's or Zorn's job at this point is shortsighted to say the least.

If we lose to the Rams and the Lions, I'll dig my torch and pitchfork out of the closet and join the mob.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I thought protection was ok, but I agree 100% on playcalling. Where was Kelly? Thomas? Davis? Cooley and ARE got 18 catches, and played well, no knock on them, but where were the rest? I just didn't understand

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

That last drive is a bit deceiving. It was garbage time. Judge Campbell on the plays that matter. QBs always pad their stats when the outcome has already been decided. Not impressed with 6-6 at that point in the game.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

ARE blows. He fell down for no reason on one play and cut back towards in the middle of the field when it looked like he could have scored if he had the ability to run in a straight line. And of course, his failure to throw the ball away on the trick play. Too many plays to him!

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Beemnseven;588285]Campbell wasn't exactly running for his life this afternoon. Yeah, they got to him a couple of times, but the fumble by Umenyora was more a product of Jason holding the ball too long.

Seemed like the protection was basically there today.[/quote]

Pass protection: yes, essentially fine.

Run blocking: awful. And our backs did not take advantage when it wasn't awful, outside of one play.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=44Deezel;588308]ARE blows. He fell down for no reason on one play and cut back towards in the middle of the field when it looked like he could have scored if he had the ability to run in a straight line. And of course, his failure to throw the ball away on the trick play. Too many plays to him![/quote]ARE always sets up his running lanes so that no one ever gets a clean shot at the ball. There's something to be said for that, even if it costs him 4-5 yards on every catch he makes.

He's generally a player who you want the ball in his hands.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

ya don't hit the panic button now, but if we lose next week then start pounding it

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

What happens if I already pressed the panic button? Can I unpress it? Can JC?

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Jason Campbell had ONLY 26 pass attempts in a game where there was 17 POINT DEFICIT for almost the entire 1st half and they were still trailing in the 2nd half. And no no-huddle until the two minute warning in the 4th quarter. Ridiculous. The Browns went into it when they had 10 minutes to go in the 4th.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I'm upset but don't press the panic button yet the giants are a good team as much as i thought we were finally on there level we are not yet but i think we will get them at our house. When you gave JC the time he hit whatever he threw at.

HTTR.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Paintrain;588217]I'm easily as frustrated at today's game as any out there. That was a pathetic showing, on the national stage, against a division opponent. I was in the game chat venting my frustrations with the rest of you but I am going to take a step back in my evaluations and acknowledge a few things before 'bringing the Pain'.

It was one game, week one and we're in no worse position than half of the league at 0-1. We played the Giants, recognized by many as the or one of the best teams in the league. For as poorly as we played, we were within a touchdown going into the 4th quarter. It sucks terribly to have to deal with this upcoming week but it's not the end of the world or the season.

Ok, time to 'Bring the Pain'. I've only got one victim this week, Jim Zorn.
[B][I]
Playcalling-[/I][/B]Wow, that was the worst game I'd seen called since, well last season's opener. Some obvious examples:

[B]-Plain stupidity-[/B]How can you call a WR reverse pass on the 2nd game of the season? Any jr. high school coach knows you have to set that play up. That sapped all momentum from the opening drive. Yes, Randle-El should have thrown the ball out of bounds, but more importantly, he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with!! Terrible decisions all around.
[B]-Run/pass ratio-[/B]We trailed from the first snap the offense took yet Zorn called the game as if we held a 17 point lead. All but 3 possessions started with a run. ALL BUT 3! I understand wanting to keep the running game viable, but when you are running the ball on 2nd and 9 while you are down 2 possessions on your side off the 50 in the 4th quarter is moronic.

[B]-Having the pulse of your players-[/B]Whatever you think about Jason Campbell as a QB, one thing is known about him. He is a rhythm passer. Get him going early and in a comfort zone and he's much more successful. One thing jumps out at me about him, he's much more comfortable and confident in the shotgun. For example, he was 14-17, 171 yards, TD today from the shotgun (6-6, 70 yds on the final drive) & 5-9 for 40 yards under center. If I can recognize that from my La-Z-Boy, Zorn should recognize this as well. I think his stubbornness gets in the way of what's best for the team. I am a JC supporter so take this with a grain of salt but you can be successful with him [B][I]IF[/I][/B] you put him in positions to do so! Let him do what he does well rather than trying to make him do what you ideally want someone to do. I think good coaches tailor what they do to the players they have and what they do best, not the other way around.

[B][I]Team management and preparation-[/I][/B]Pretty terrible showing in some really basic areas. Tackling, discipline, conditioning, penalties. We weren't physically whipped, completely out schemed (aside from Blache's vanilla defenses) or out-talented. We were beat, as usual, on the little things. Lack of gap integrity, poor effort on tackles, lazy/sloppy play. One of my biggest gripes with Zorn this preseason was how little he used the starters. He was acting like we were coming off of a Super Bowl run and returning all 22 starters.

We came out with nothing and stayed that way. The Manningham TD was the type of defensive effort that gets high school coaches fired. The Boss completion late in the 4th quarter, every DL stopped their feet while the play was alive and the QB had the ball in the pocket.

Finally, one specific gripe from last season that seems to have carried on, why is Laron Landry playing 20 yards off of the line of scrimmage?!?!? If he's one of our defensive playmakers, put him in positions to make plays!!!

I still think we've got 10 win talent and will go on a nice run with some lesser teams on the horizon.[/quote]

Outstanding tread,,, When Sydner replaces Vinny and the front office and coachs, then we might start to see some progress. But Sydner needs to start now (and he may well have after todays loss) really really try and find some way to bring in a very talented coaching staff that knows what they are doing and start the pain staking process of rebuilding this team. Snyder needs to lose his pride and look into what has helped some of the other teams like the Pats,Steelers,etc. be so successful. And quite this shit of trying to break the bank just because he has the money. Common sense can go along ways.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;588347]Jason Campbell had ONLY 26 pass attempts in a game where there was 17 POINT DEFICIT for almost the entire 1st half and they were still trailing in the 2nd half. And no no-huddle until the two minute warning in the 4th quarter. Ridiculous. The Browns went into it when they had 10 minutes to go in the 4th.[/quote]

This leads to piss poor coaching.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=44Deezel;588305]That last drive is a bit deceiving. It was garbage time. Judge Campbell on the plays that matter. QBs always pad their stats when the outcome has already been decided. Not impressed with 6-6 at that point in the game.[/quote]

That's fine, albeit a cowardly way to discount production, so what's the judgment on being 8-11 for 100 yards from the shotgun formation? He's much more effective and comfortable in the shotgun and playing in rhythm than dropping back and throwing on 2nd and 3rd and long.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Paintrain;588441]That's fine, albeit a cowardly way to discount production, so what's the judgment on being 8-11 for 100 yards from the shotgun formation? He's much more effective and comfortable in the shotgun and playing in rhythm than dropping back and throwing on 2nd and 3rd and long.[/quote]I think he was one of the people who was ready to throw Campbell under the bus after going 1/7 against the Steelers in a quarter of action.

So 1/7 in a preseason game against the Steelers = bench/cut player
6/6 in the fourth quarter of a two score game against Giants = discountable garbage time.

Never mind that if we recover the onside kick, we probably win the game.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588446]I think he was one of the people who was ready to throw Campbell under the bus after going 1/7 against the Steelers in a quarter of action.

So 1/7 in a preseason game against the Steelers = bench/cut player
6/6 in the fourth quarter of a two score game against Giants = discountable garbage time.

[B]Never mind that if we recover the onside kick, we probably win the game.[/B][/quote]

Please don't say reasonable things like that when so many people obviously NEED to panic.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Portis looked so slow after that first drive.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Good thread to calm folks down. Yeah we need to do shotgun more. The last drives of each half were in 2 minute drill and he led two scoring drives.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I think JC is so comfortable in the shotgun, I almost wish it was our primary formation, and find a way to make the run work from it.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;588498]I think JC is so comfortable in the shotgun, I almost wish it was our primary formation, and find a way to make the run work from it.[/quote]
Why the hell was he under center on that play that he audibled to run the ball.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;588502]Why the hell was he under center on that play that he audibled to run the ball.[/quote]

I also remember a play when he was under center with an empty backfield. That is the dumbest formation in football.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I think our offensive problems are 50% JC and 50% Zorn's play calling.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Great post, the play calling was predictable even from my living room. I don't think you can be a good team if you run run pass all game and then open the playbook with five minutes left and a two score deficit. Unless your counting on recovering a bunch of onsides kicks and then scoring again as GTripp astutely mentioned. Which I guess would then be a great offensive gameplan!

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;588539]I think our offensive problems are 50% JC and 50% Zorn's play calling.[/quote]

I don't get the 50% JC. Help me out, fumble was bad, INT was stupid, audible (and reason) was inexcusable. How is that 50%?

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Did anyone actually think we were better than the Giants??? I have news for everyone. They are a better football team than we are. From ownership on down the freakin water boys they're better. Can someone tell me any area where we're better than NY? I can't think of one. I'm not going to panic cause I know they're better than us. Let's regroup next week.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588581]Did anyone actually think we were better than the Giants??? I have news for everyone. They are a better football team than we are. From ownership on down the freakin water boys they're better. Can someone tell me any area where we're better than NY? I can't think of one. I'm not going to panic cause I know they're better than us. Let's regroup next week.[/quote]

Portis>Jacobs

Cooley>Boss

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588581]Did anyone actually think we were better than the Giants??? I have news for everyone. They are a better football team than we are. From ownership on down the freakin water boys they're better. Can someone tell me any area where we're better than NY? I can't think of one. I'm not going to panic cause I know they're better than us. Let's regroup next week.[/quote]We're probably better in both lines.

Less confident about the offensive lines, obviously, but their forte is run blocking, and well, they didn't open many holes at all today.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=WaldSkins;588590]Portis>Jacobs

Cooley>Boss[/quote]

I'll give you Cooley over Boss. As a group the Giants RB's are just as effective as Portis.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588601]We're probably better in both lines.

Less confident about the offensive lines, obviously, but their forte is run blocking, and well, they didn't open many holes at all today.[/quote]

What????????????????? They have better lines on both sides of the ball hands down.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588618]What????????????????? They have better lines on both sides of the ball hands down.[/quote]Not really. That's a media creation that doesn't hold up on tape.

They do have better pass protection units, but that has more to do with their back and tight end pickups than the actual 5 offensive lineman.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588619]Not really. That's a media creation that doesn't hold up on tape.

They do have better pass protection units, but that has more to do with their back and tight end pickups than the actual 5 offensive lineman.[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more.
Both of their lines are far more dominant than ours.

They don't have a weekness on either unit.
Our Dline can't rush the passer.
Our Oline can't run block.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=jamf;588644]I couldn't disagree more.
Both of their lines are far more dominant than ours.

They don't have a weekness on either unit.
Our Dline can't rush the passer.
Our Oline can't run block.[/quote]Both of the turnovers today were created by DL pressure. We've been a good run defensive line since 2004.

Our OL kept them from collapsing the pocket on Campbell for most of the game, which was key to give us a chance.

I don't, for the record, believe that either of our units, offense or defense is as good as theirs. But I think the difference is in the skill positions on offense, and back seven on defense. Not on the lines where both teams are very strong.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Paintrain;588217]I'm easily as frustrated at today's game as any out there. That was a pathetic showing, on the national stage, against a division opponent. I was in the game chat venting my frustrations with the rest of you but I am going to take a step back in my evaluations and acknowledge a few things before 'bringing the Pain'.

It was one game, week one and we're in no worse position than half of the league at 0-1. We played the Giants, recognized by many as the or one of the best teams in the league. For as poorly as we played, we were within a touchdown going into the 4th quarter. It sucks terribly to have to deal with this upcoming week but it's not the end of the world or the season.

Ok, time to 'Bring the Pain'. I've only got one victim this week, Jim Zorn.
[B][I]
Playcalling-[/I][/B]Wow, that was the worst game I'd seen called since, well last season's opener. Some obvious examples:

[B]-Plain stupidity-[/B]How can you call a WR reverse pass on the 2nd game of the season? Any jr. high school coach knows you have to set that play up. That sapped all momentum from the opening drive. Yes, Randle-El should have thrown the ball out of bounds, but more importantly, he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with!! Terrible decisions all around.
[B]-Run/pass ratio-[/B]We trailed from the first snap the offense took yet Zorn called the game as if we held a 17 point lead. All but 3 possessions started with a run. ALL BUT 3! I understand wanting to keep the running game viable, but when you are running the ball on 2nd and 9 while you are down 2 possessions on your side off the 50 in the 4th quarter is moronic.

[B]-Having the pulse of your players-[/B]Whatever you think about Jason Campbell as a QB, one thing is known about him. He is a rhythm passer. Get him going early and in a comfort zone and he's much more successful. One thing jumps out at me about him, he's much more comfortable and confident in the shotgun. For example, he was 14-17, 171 yards, TD today from the shotgun (6-6, 70 yds on the final drive) & 5-9 for 40 yards under center. If I can recognize that from my La-Z-Boy, Zorn should recognize this as well. I think his stubbornness gets in the way of what's best for the team. I am a JC supporter so take this with a grain of salt but you can be successful with him [B][I]IF[/I][/B] you put him in positions to do so! Let him do what he does well rather than trying to make him do what you ideally want someone to do. I think good coaches tailor what they do to the players they have and what they do best, not the other way around.

[B][I]Team management and preparation-[/I][/B]Pretty terrible showing in some really basic areas. Tackling, discipline, conditioning, penalties. We weren't physically whipped, completely out schemed (aside from Blache's vanilla defenses) or out-talented. We were beat, as usual, on the little things. Lack of gap integrity, poor effort on tackles, lazy/sloppy play. One of my biggest gripes with Zorn this preseason was how little he used the starters. He was acting like we were coming off of a Super Bowl run and returning all 22 starters.

We came out with nothing and stayed that way. The Manningham TD was the type of defensive effort that gets high school coaches fired. The Boss completion late in the 4th quarter, every DL stopped their feet while the play was alive and the QB had the ball in the pocket.

Finally, one specific gripe from last season that seems to have carried on, why is Laron Landry playing 20 yards off of the line of scrimmage?!?!? If he's one of our defensive playmakers, put him in positions to make plays!!!

I still think we've got 10 win talent and will go on a nice run with some lesser teams on the horizon.[/quote]

"Bring the Pain" huh? I guess "Smoot Lays the Smack Down" serves no purpose now as a weekly feature. I sort of feel like Jon Jansen when he showed up one day at training camp last year and saw himself dropped down the depth chart...

Well, I'm going to bring the pain to

[B]Andre Carter[/B] Smoot and D. Hall (especially) are getting a lot of grief for whiffing on the Manningham touchdown. But, I may have missed it, I've heard hardly any mention of Andre Carter's awful attempt on that play

[B]Antwaan Randle El[/B] Yes, you could argue that Zorn's decision to call the trick play on the second play of the game was questionable. But, it would have been one thing if he set up with Devin Thomas. But he didn't. The play was for ARE, an experienced veteran who should be trusted to make a smart decision. If Zorn can trust his veterans to make smart decisions, who can he trust?

[B]Whoever was responsible for keeping Malcolm Kelly irrelevant on Sunday[/B] I suspect it was Dan Snyder....sorry, Dan Synder

[B]Juggernaut....sorry, Juggernaunt and Insideman[/B] For starting stupid, panic threads after the first game of the season. An away loss to the New York Giants. It's fine to have concerns and be critical (see: this thread), but your threads sucked. Especially insideman's. That was one of the worst threads I've seen started in the history of stupid threads that are started after a loss. Nothing personal, just disappointed really in myself for being surprised to see such threads...yet again.

[B]Carlos Rogers[/B] Looked to me like he dropped yet another INT on the first drive of the game. Can't have that

[B]Sam Huff[/B] First drive of the game..."Rocky McIntosh is having the best year of his career so far at this point in the season"....What???

Disappointing loss overall, especially because it looked and felt like this was an upset we could sneak out of the Meadowlands with on Sunday. We need to find our rhythm on offense. The Giants are a tough team to make that happen. Hopefully, over the next few weeks we can start to develop some offensive consistency. I'm not concerned...yet.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[B]Smootsmack[/B] For using the word rhythm in his critique. I think that word needs to be banished to the fiery pits of hell.