play calling???
 

where is the m kelly jump ball in the red zone the 2 tight end sets whats up with the 7 step drop against a nasty defense like the giants- do we want campbell droppin back that far w the rock on 3rd down when u know a blitz is coming why didnt we blitz more, shit eli cant even run hes slow as hell im lost somebody helppppp!!!!!

Re: play calling???
 

Im amazed that some have said we needed to run CP more. Outside of the 1st run, it was just 2-3 yards at a time, and that isnt gonna cut it, the playcalling was pathetic IMO. I wanna see Zorn take the shackles off Campbell, and let him air it out more. Lets see more shotgun, more 4wide sets, more 2TE sets, and more medium/deep passes. The NFL has become a passing league, the days of wearing teams down with the run game are gone. It used to be establish the run to set up the pass, its the other way around now. They teased us in the preseason, then we get to the real game and we take 1 lousy shot downfield. The "west coast offense" is getting old and frustrating quickly IMO. Campbell has the big arm, lets give him a chance to use it. It wont matter soon, if he stays with the current trend they both will be looking for new jobs.

Re: play calling???
 

Also besides the nice catch on the improvisation by Campbell what has Betts done? I would put Mason in place of Betts and see what happens.

Re: play calling???
 

I'm not gonna lie. I've been asking myself the same stuff over and over and over.

Where are the two tight end sets? Where are the two tight end sets?

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;589328]Also besides the nice catch on the improvisation by Campbell what has Betts done? I would put Mason in place of Betts and see what happens.[/quote]


Uh oh!! Let the flood games open. Lol. Maybe we can replace Betts with Cartwright [end sarcasm]

People say Mason is the same back as Betts and Betts is the same as CP.

When people say that I throw up in my mouth a little bit.

In terms of yards/game, [B]Portis[/B] is #2 among active players, behind [B]LT[/B]. Of course, Peterson isn't on the list due to not enough games.

Among all players, he's currently #5, behind [B]Jim[/B] [B]Brown[/B], Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and [B]LT[/B]. I imagine he'll drop off a bit as he gets older, but he's the real deal.

Check the list you will be amazed. He will be the all time leading rusher in Redskins history by the end of the year. He rushed for close to 1,500 yards last year and could have gotten more but he got hurt and Zorn stopped running him. I can understand he was saving him from wear and tear. But who did we have to back him up. Betts? Oh he got hurt. Cartwright. Not good we signed Shaun Alexander. Then people are crying over us keeping Mason.

People are like why do you worry about the third/fourth back? (see explanation above)

Betts is not good at the goal line or getting a first down on third down. He is our third down back because he catches well? So when he comes in the game you don't think teams know this?

I was saying on another post. If Moss wasn't going to step up maybe we should have used one of the other WRs (At least for a series until he got his head together). What ever brings good results. I named all WRs and they pull Mitchell out of the mix and say if Moss wasn't making a play why do you think the 5th WR will? I was just naming off the whole WR depth chart. You try different things when the same things don't work.

This team needs some swagger and attitude. We need to kick ass and take names later and stop being a punch of spoiled brats and prima donnas. If anyone can stick there chest out it is Portis because he grinds his body to the ground every year.

Zorn needs to utilize his players and make better play calls. Make the scheme work for the talent he has. I think we have as much talent as any team in this league. But we only strive when our backs are against the wall. I jsut want some efficiency, consistency and straight up swagger. That has to come from the players but also the head coach.

Re: play calling???
 

Oh and I think he was number one in first downs among running backs last year...

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;589336]In terms of yards/game, [B]Portis[/B] is #2 among active players, behind [B]LT[/B]. Of course, Peterson isn't on the list due to not enough games.

Among all players, he's currently #5, behind [B]Jim[/B] [B]Brown[/B], Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and [B]LT[/B]. I imagine he'll drop off a bit as he gets older, but he's the real deal.

Check the list you will be amazed. He will be the all time leading rusher in Redskins history by the end of the year. He rushed for close to 1,500 yards last year and could have gotten more but he got hurt and Zorn stopped running him.[/quote]

Clinton Portis played like an average running back(at best) against the Giants. IMO he played pretty bad. His suddenness is non-existent.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;589336]You try different things when the same things don't work.

This team needs some swagger and attitude. We need to kick ass and take names later and stop being a punch of spoiled brats and prima donnas. If anyone can stick there chest out it is Portis because he grinds his body to the ground every year.

Zorn needs to utilize his players and make better play calls. Make the scheme work for the talent he has. I think we have as much talent as any team in this league. But we only strive when our backs are against the wall. I jsut want some efficiency, consistency and straight up swagger. That has to come from the players but also the head coach.[/quote]

I only can hope Zorn will do better starting this sunday and from now on.. Zorn needs to take the handcuffs off Campbell, and let him do his things..

Re: play calling???
 

I'm a big CP fan, and there's no doubt that he's as tough as they come. That said, dude looked SLOW on Sunday. Even on that first big run, I thought "man, he looks like he's really lumbering on this gain". I don't know how much of that is due to him being tight, not really in game shape, age, or what -- but I think he's probably lost a half of a step, maybe more.

The stats are impressive but the one you're forgetting is the number of touches and attempts it took CP to rack up those yards last year -- 342 carries! Only Peterson and Turner had more last season and those guys have significantly fewer miles on them than CP does. In 2007 he led all running backs in attempts. In 2005, he was 4th.

We run the *hell* out of Portis, and that does not come without a price.

Re: play calling???
 

I think we can all agree that its time for a youth movement along the Oline and in the backfield. CP doesnt have much left in the tank from how we have ridden him since he got here and our Oline simply just needs more talent.

Re: play calling???
 

Wow...

CP lost a step? Man, that guy exploded through that hole. You guys need to see it again, because he didn't look slow to me. It looked like to me you had one guy diving after him after he shot through the hole, and the 2 DB's made a better angle to knock him out of bounds.

Let's just take a look shall we?

Starts at 35
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XncGT7J8Y]YouTube - NFL Week 1- Washington Redskins vs New York Giants[/ame]

Now watch how the DB's take a great angle on Portis.. Portis has always been known for his great vision, and ableness of following his blockers. He has the best vision in the NFL as a RB.

Now.. This

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2QxgPoLuI&feature=fvw[/ame]

Now in this video you see the safety #23 take the worse angle in football. I've seen 10 year old pee wee players take a better angle then that, and Portis had about 10 yards of sideline to make a better stretch, not the 3 yards in the first video on the short side of the field. Give the guy another 1- yards and he prolly catches Portis... Everyone who know the Redskins knows the Portis has never had breakaway speed. He's always been built for quick bursts and hitting the holes and producing long drives with the occasional big one.

All you people looking ot point a finger at why we lost on Sunday need to get over it. We were not going to go 16-0 this year, and we are prolly not going to go even 11-5. We are going to lose, and usually the losing team looks the worse out of the 2 teams. We just happen to be that team this week, and in all honesty.. I didn't think the game was that bad. We lost by 6 points against a team that won the SB 2 years ago?

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589325]Im amazed that some have said we needed to run CP more. Outside of the 1st run, it was just 2-3 yards at a time, and that isnt gonna cut it, the playcalling was pathetic IMO. Lets see more shotgun, more 4wide sets, more 2TE sets, and more medium/deep passes. The NFL has become a passing league, the days of wearing teams down with the run game are gone. It used to be establish the run to set up the pass, its the other way around now. They teased us in the preseason, then we get to the real game and we take 1 lousy shot downfield. The "west coast offense" is getting old and frustrating quickly IMO. Campbell has the big arm, lets give him a chance to use it. It wont matter soon, if he stays with the current trend they both will be looking for new jobs.[/quote]

Hey Roth agree most of your post but I have to disagree about the run 1st. Did you look at the Vikings game. Brett was handcuffed and they handed to AP which wore down the Browns in the 4th. But we are talking about the Browns defense not the Giants. We do need to spread defenses out more with 3, 4 WR formations and we can still run out of them. How about a damn screen pass to slow down the G-men's pass rush. Oh whats up with the Jason Campbell Shackles reference (I wanna see Zorn take the shackles off Campbell, and let him air it out more. Maybe you should use your choice of words more carefully considering he is a African American QB. I am to not offended but it's a phrase that we need to eliminate.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;589336]Uh oh!! Let the flood games open. Lol. Maybe we can replace Betts with Cartwright [end sarcasm]

People say Mason is the same back as Betts and Betts is the same as CP.

When people say that I throw up in my mouth a little bit.

In terms of yards/game, [B]Portis[/B] is #2 among active players, behind [B]LT[/B]. Of course, Peterson isn't on the list due to not enough games.

Among all players, he's currently #5, behind [B]Jim[/B] [B]Brown[/B], Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and [B]LT[/B]. I imagine he'll drop off a bit as he gets older, but he's the real deal.

Check the list you will be amazed. He will be the all time leading rusher in Redskins history by the end of the year. He rushed for close to 1,500 yards last year and could have gotten more but he got hurt and Zorn stopped running him. I can understand he was saving him from wear and tear. But who did we have to back him up. Betts? Oh he got hurt. Cartwright. Not good we signed Shaun Alexander. Then people are crying over us keeping Mason.

People are like why do you worry about the third/fourth back? (see explanation above)

Betts is not good at the goal line or getting a first down on third down. He is our third down back because he catches well? So when he comes in the game you don't think teams know this?

I was saying on another post. If Moss wasn't going to step up maybe we should have used one of the other WRs (At least for a series until he got his head together). What ever brings good results. I named all WRs and they pull Mitchell out of the mix and say if Moss wasn't making a play why do you think the 5th WR will? I was just naming off the whole WR depth chart. You try different things when the same things don't work.

This team needs some swagger and attitude. We need to kick ass and take names later and stop being a punch of spoiled brats and prima donnas. If anyone can stick there chest out it is Portis because he grinds his body to the ground every year.

Zorn needs to utilize his players and make better play calls. Make the scheme work for the talent he has. I think we have as much talent as any team in this league. But we only strive when our backs are against the wall. I jsut want some efficiency, consistency and straight up swagger. That has to come from the players but also the head coach.[/quote]

Hell yea I like Moss but he pulled some BS right off the bat fighting with Webster. On top of that he got his ass kicked landing on the ground helmet off. Also Webster had a blanket on his ass all day. Why not take him out and let DT or Mitchell come in the game. We have won sh*t with the players on this team so know player should think he can't get his ass yanked from the game. As for Betts he tip toes every time he runs the ball. I was all for letting him go and keeping Aldridge. Betts 1 go season since Spurrier drafted him. He is a career back up making starting running back pay. Our WR were playing scared except for ARE got it done. I want a WR that wants the damn ball. They( T.O., R. Moss, K.Johnson,C.Johnson) maybe a pain in the ass but aleast they show up and make plays.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=GridIron26;589348]I only can hope Zorn will do better starting this sunday and from now on.. Zorn needs to take the handcuffs off Campbell, and let him do his things..[/quote]

Wow Jason Campbell went from wearing Shackles to wearing Handcuffs. We really need to get away from these such idiot statements when referring to any player whether Black or White. Im not saying anyone is racists but maybe ignorant would be the better choice. We are all fans and many different races lets be more understantding to one another. Thanks GridIron.

P.S. The Shackles statement was from (Roth).

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=freddavisbro86;589316]where is the m kelly jump ball in the red zone the 2 tight end sets whats up with the 7 step drop against a nasty defense like the giants- do we want campbell droppin back that far w the rock on 3rd down when u know a blitz is coming why didnt we blitz more, shit eli cant even run hes slow as hell im lost somebody helppppp!!!!![/quote]

I agree with your concerns about play calling except for the Kelly jump ball. It looked to me like we tried to hit him on an end zone fade but he got zero separation. The problem there was execution, not the play call.

Re: play calling???
 

The playcalling was neither horrible nor great; it was just okay. The run wasn't working and I wish Zorn had called more passing plays. I realize you have to run the ball, even if you're getting 1 or 2 yards per carry, but we should have aired it out a bit more. I also don't understand why we don't use our redzone threats (e.g., Davis and Kelly) in the redzone.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;589519]The playcalling was neither horrible nor great; it was just okay. The run wasn't working and I wish Zorn had called more passing plays. I realize you have to run the ball, even if you're getting 1 or 2 yards per carry, but we should have aired it out a bit more. I also don't understand why we don't use our redzone threats (e.g., Davis and Kelly) in the redzone.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. The play calling was horrendous. We ran on every first down but two until our final possession. We ran left 90% of the time when we ran. We ran stretch after stretch after stretch. The WR screen to the short side of the field at the 6 lard line on 2nd and goal was beyond terrible.

I'm convinced the formula for an effective offense is 65:35 pass, Campbell primarily from the shotgun. He was 14-17, 171, TD against the Giants from the gun. I am going to try to track that over the 1st half of the season and see how it bears itself out and if Zorn recognizes it as well and adjusts accordingly.

Re: play calling???
 

I'm fine with CP, but I would very much like to see some 1st down play action.

Still, CP is a big part of what we do--when he rolls, it really opens things up. He was a 1400 yard back last year--we need to get the most out of him.

Some of this is on the gints, who do have a great front.

Re: play calling???
 

I thought the playcalling was horrendous as well. Too predictable. They ran on first down too much and majority of the time they ran left. Mix up pass/run on first down. In the multiple wide receiver sets, they lined up Betts at wide out. What does Marko Mitchell have to do, to get into the lineup?

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;589527]I thought the playcalling was horrendous as well. Too predictable. They ran on first down too much and majority of the time they ran left. Mix up pass/run on first down. In the multiple wide receiver sets, they lined up Betts at wide out. What does Marko Mitchell have to do, to get into the lineup?[/quote]

Sorry to piggyback your post but I failed to mention something else that you reminded me of. The Giants had 3 active CB on Sunday. THREE! If that doesn't scream 4-5 WR and run those bastards all over the field then what does? That's what a coach who is dialed in and in attack mode does. See a weakness, exploit the hell out of it and don't let up. He helped a wounded team by not attacking it's vulnerability.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=skins89moss;589370]Wow Jason Campbell went from wearing Shackles to wearing Handcuffs. We really need to get away from these such idiot statements when referring to any player whether Black or White. Im not saying anyone is racists but maybe ignorant would be the better choice. We are all fans and many different races lets be more understantding to one another. Thanks GridIron.

P.S. The Shackles statement was from (Roth).[/quote]

We don't need to do a GD thing! We're beyond thinking in racial terms. It appears your not. In case you haven't noticed, 75% of the league is black. If you want to imply that we're ignorant or racist go up to Filth-a-delphia were that BS belongs. If anything I said hurts your racially sensitive feelings, good. Go join Nightlight.

Re: play calling???
 

Interesting article on Redskins.com about the play calling [url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/For_Zorn__Play_Calling_Remains_a_Balancing_Act_51199.jsp]For Zorn, Play Calling Remains a Balancing Act[/url].

Weisman kinda tip toes around outright questioning Zorn's play calling on Sunday but he still asked some of the same questions we have. It's disturbing that Zorn was talking about 'I didn't want to go away from the run'. How about going towards some points? That's the stubbornness that I think is going to get him replaced.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=skins89moss;589370]Wow Jason Campbell went from wearing Shackles to wearing Handcuffs. We really need to get away from these such idiot statements when referring to any player whether Black or White. Im not saying anyone is racists but maybe ignorant would be the better choice. We are all fans and many different races lets be more understantding to one another. Thanks GridIron.

P.S. The Shackles statement was from (Roth).[/quote]

FUCK YOU! People are way too sensitive, its a figure of speech you dipshit! I am black you dumbass, get over it already!

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=dgack;589350]I'm a big CP fan, and there's no doubt that he's as tough as they come. That said, dude looked SLOW on Sunday. Even on that first big run, I thought "man, he looks like he's really lumbering on this gain". I don't know how much of that is due to him being tight, not really in game shape, age, or what -- but I think he's probably lost a half of a step, maybe more.

The stats are impressive but the one you're forgetting is the number of touches and attempts it took CP to rack up those yards last year -- 342 carries! Only Peterson and Turner had more last season and those guys have significantly fewer miles on them than CP does. In 2007 he led all running backs in attempts. In 2005, he was 4th.

We run the *hell* out of Portis, and that does not come without a price.[/quote]

I have never thought CP was a fast open field runner from the start. He breaks out for big plays but there is always someone catching him from behind on the other team. I can only think of his first carry as a skin where he broke it out into the open field and no one ran him down. I still think CP is a great back but he is just not that fast in the open field.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589325]Im amazed that some have said we needed to run CP more. Outside of the 1st run, it was just 2-3 yards at a time, and that isnt gonna cut it, the playcalling was pathetic IMO. I wanna see Zorn take the shackles off Campbell, and let him air it out more. Lets see more shotgun, more 4wide sets, more 2TE sets, and more medium/deep passes. The NFL has become a passing league, the days of wearing teams down with the run game are gone. It used to be establish the run to set up the pass, its the other way around now. They teased us in the preseason, then we get to the real game and we take 1 lousy shot downfield. The "west coast offense" is getting old and frustrating quickly IMO. Campbell has the big arm, lets give him a chance to use it. It wont matter soon, if he stays with the current trend they both will be looking for new jobs.[/quote]

Until the last drive, the Skins had more runs than passes. That is inexplicable considering they were losing the entire time and averaging 2 yards a carry. We need answers, damnit;)

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589555]FUCK YOU! People are way too sensitive, its a figure of speech you dipshit! I am black you dumbass, get over it already![/quote]
Now thats funny.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Paintrain;589551]Interesting article on Redskins.com about the play calling [url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/For_Zorn__Play_Calling_Remains_a_Balancing_Act_51199.jsp]For Zorn, Play Calling Remains a Balancing Act[/url].

Weisman kinda tip toes around outright questioning Zorn's play calling on Sunday but he still asked some of the same questions we have. It's disturbing that Zorn was talking about 'I didn't want to go away from the run'. How about going towards some points? That's the stubbornness that I think is going to get him replaced.[/quote]

Pass your way into the lead and run to hold onto it. How hard is that?!?! Teams like the Pats, Eagles and even the Steelers will have almost as many runs as passes when the game is over, but you'll notice they tend to load up on the run in the second half after they have built up a lead. The fact that Zorn called more run plays than pass plays until the last drive is mind boggling. THEY WERE PLAYING FROM BEHIND!!!!

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589555]FUCK YOU! People are way too sensitive, its a figure of speech you dipshit! I am black you dumbass, get over it already![/quote]

Ok, let's all calm down now

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589568]Ok, let's all calm down now[/quote]

Yes sir, just needed to put that out there after the "idiotic" comment for my friend who cant spell!

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589555]FUCK YOU! People are way too sensitive, its a figure of speech you dipshit! I am black you dumbass, get over it already![/quote]

Black on black crime on a website celebrating a team whose case was asked to be escalated to the Supreme Court ([url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gj9mlLSsAb54w1u-IPmGjEbOPhxgD9ANPH183]The Associated Press: Indians ask Supreme Court if 'Redskins' offends[/url]) for being racially insensitive. Can't we all just get along? Don't make me call Jesse!

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=roth74va;589555]FUCK YOU! People are way too sensitive, its a figure of speech you dipshit! I am black you dumbass, get over it already![/quote]

Boom! Now if our O-line could hit that hard we'd be in business!

Re: play calling???
 

This thread is a little mental.

Dipshit is a very funny word.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Paintrain;589551]Interesting article on Redskins.com about the play calling [url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/For_Zorn__Play_Calling_Remains_a_Balancing_Act_51199.jsp]For Zorn, Play Calling Remains a Balancing Act[/url].

Weisman kinda tip toes around outright questioning Zorn's play calling on Sunday but he still asked some of the same questions we have. It's disturbing that Zorn was talking about 'I didn't want to go away from the run'. How about going towards some points? That's the stubbornness that I think is going to get him replaced.[/quote]

Good read at the link.

Good post for commentary.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=wilsowilso;589585]This thread is a little mental.

[B]Dipshit is a very funny word.[/B][/quote]

As in, "I like to dipshit in my fondue"? "I work at the dip cage at the zoo and have to clean up dipshit all day"? Yeah, it is a strange word.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=wilsowilso;589345]Clinton Portis played like an average running back(at best) against the Giants. IMO he played pretty bad. His suddenness is non-existent.[/quote]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this -- but the decline of Clinton Portis is in full view of those who are willing to see it.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589617]I'm probably going to get flamed for this -- but the decline of Clinton Portis is in full view of those who are willing to see it.[/quote]

You can't work his ass like a government mule and expect him to last long.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589617]I'm probably going to get flamed for this -- but the decline of Clinton Portis is in full view of those who are willing to see it.[/quote]

Not a flame, but do you really think the holes were there? I know some thought the OL did a great job, but I just didn't see it.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Mattyk72;589621]Not a flame, but do you really think the holes were there? I know some thought the OL did a great job, but I just didn't see it.[/quote]When I do the line yards tonight and tomorrow, I have a feeling they'll back up what you're saying about the running holes. I'm not being biased, just a guess.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Mattyk72;589621]Not a flame, but do you really think the holes were there? I know some thought the OL did a great job, but I just didn't see it.[/quote]

No, the Giants did a fine job stuffing the run, but on the 34-yarder, it just seems as though Portis would have been able to take it further 3 or 4 years ago. His vision, and ability to juke defenders in the open field just isn't there anymore.

This is obvious to many, and as TTE said, season after season of 330+ carries does that to any running back. But I just wonder if fans realize how much of a decline there's been between Portis' first carry as a Redskin against the Bucs six years ago and the Portis of today.

Re: play calling???
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589617]I'm probably going to get flamed for this -- but the decline of Clinton Portis is in full view of those who are willing to see it.[/quote]

I don't think CP is in decline. He just shouldn't be the focus of the offense anymore. The QB should be. CP is not a game breaker and it's just time for a transition of a running team to a passing team. But the coach is either too stupid to realize it or he's too stubborn. What really pissed me off was watching the Balt. game. Watching Cam Cameron and Harbaugh just hand over the offense to a 2nd year QB from freakin Delaware and let him sling it all over the field. I don't think Balt. has better wr's than we do. My patience w/ Zorn's playcalling is over with, he appears to be in over his head and it's time to be on the Shanahan watch.