Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

This may seem like another Zorn thread but this is asking an underlying question that I haven't seen asked or discussed.

Jim Zorn was hired as a first time ever head coach last year. He started his rookie coaching stint and led our team to 8-8. In only his second year of coaching...

[B][COLOR=DarkRed]How is it that our 2nd year head coach is on the Hot Seat?[/COLOR][/B]

Now I'm not making excuses for him, nor do I think that he has been showing his coaching worth as of late but the question begs...[COLOR=DarkRed]How is firing him even a consideration at this point?[/COLOR] Zorn is in his 2nd year of head coaching for the first time in his career. What expectations were there of this rookie head coach and were they realistic?

Zorn has barely seen his initial rookie player class play in their second year in the NFL. Would you contemplate cutting D. Thomas, M. Kelly or F. Davis around now because they didn't look good?...No, because there wouldn't be an realistic expectation of them necessarily doing well.

[B][COLOR=DarkRed]What are the REALISTIC expectations currently being placed on Zorn and was there ever a REALISTIC possibility of success given the parameters that Zorn held being hired as the head coach of the Washington Redskins?[/COLOR][/B]

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[B](thread closed)[/B]

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=12thMan;594612][B](thread closed)[/B][/quote]

lol...nice

The square brackets make it look more official : )

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

Had to pay you back.

If Zorn goes down, he'd better go down with Campbell throwing the ball 25-30 times next week and maybe the week after. I think he get's until the half way mark of the season.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594609]This may seem like another Zorn thread but this is asking an underlying question that I haven't seen asked or discussed.

Jim Zorn was hired as a first time ever head coach last year. He started his rookie coaching stint and led our team to 8-8. In only his second year of coaching...

[B][COLOR=DarkRed][B]How is it that our 2nd year head coach is on the Hot Seat?[/B][/COLOR][/B]

Now I'm not making excuses for him, nor do I think that he has been showing his coaching worth as of late but the question begs...[COLOR=DarkRed]How is firing him even a consideration at this point?[/COLOR] Zorn is in his 2nd year of head coaching for the first time in his career. What expectations were there of this rookie head coach and were they realistic?

Zorn has barely seen his initial rookie player class play in their second year in the NFL. Would you contemplate cutting D. Thomas, M. Kelly or F. Davis around now because they didn't look good?...No, because there wouldn't be an realistic expectation of them necessarily doing well.

[B][COLOR=DarkRed]What are the REALISTIC expectations currently being placed on Zorn and was there ever a REALISTIC possibility of success given the parameters that Zorn held being hired as the head coach of the Washington Redskins?[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

Before I can answer your questions, I need one answered: how do we know that Zorn is on the hot seat?

Our whining or speculation, or the media's whining or speculation, mean nothing on this point. None of us holds the checkbook.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

for your answer review the past two weeks of endless post about Zorn.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=firstdown;594622]for your answer review the past two weeks of endless post about Zorn.[/quote]

Like this one...

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32095-zorn-im-not-worried-about-my.html[/url]

Or this one...

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/32118-smoke-signals-heat-rising-jim-zorn.html[/url]

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

Again and I make dumb threads? This shit is bush league

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;594630]Again and I make dumb threads? This shit is bush league[/quote]

Apparently you've been redeemed.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;594630]Again and I make dumb threads? This shit is bush league[/quote]

I didn't expect people from Norman, Oklahoma to grasp the concept of this thread. : ) It actually has a little more depth to it than your run of the mill "Zorn Sucks" thread.

...just read it...errrr...have your older brother read it to you again.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;594634]I didn't expect people from Norman, Oklahoma to grasp the concept of this thread. : ) It actually has a little more depth to it than your run of the mill "Zorn Sucks" thread.

...just read it...errrr...have your older brother read it to you again.[/quote]

Yea Um I'm not originally from here, and even if I was that makes no sense man wtf lol. Just because I live in Norman, I don't get concepts? wow did u make that up yourself? I go to the University of Oklahoma bro, where did u go?

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;594640]Yea Um I'm not originally from here, and even if I was that makes no sense man wtf lol. Just because I live in Norman, I don't get concepts? wow did u make that up yourself? I go to the University of Oklahoma bro, where did u go?[/quote]

Lol don't worry bout him man, apparently he doesn't get the "concept" of 3 other Zorn is on the hotseat kinda threads.. Maybe people in Mass. don't get concepts either..

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;594640]Yea Um I'm not originally from here, and even if I was that makes no sense man wtf lol. Just because I live in Norman, I don't get concepts? wow did u make that up yourself? I go to the University of Oklahoma bro, where did u go?[/quote]

Bush League University

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

Lol u guys are both Bush League!!!

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

Skinny Tee,

I'll give you three reasons why Armstrong....er, Zorn :) is on the hot seat

Mike Smith
Tony Sparano
John Harbaugh

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594676]Skinny Tee,

I'll give you three reasons why Armstrong....er, Zorn :) is on the hot seat

Mike Smith
Tony Sparano
John Harbaugh[/quote]

I'll give you 4 more reasons
Bill Cowher
Mike Shanahan
Mike Holmgren
Tony Dungy
Cam Cameron

Well ok thats 5... I see Cam being a hot offseason name if he can keep the Ravens rolling.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

Coach Armstrong may be on the hot seat as far as the fans/media go, but all that matters is what Sneeder thinks.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Mattyk72;594692]Coach Armstrong may be on the hot seat as far as the fans/media go, but all that matters is what Sneeder thinks.[/quote]

You think Sneeder would make Blanche the interim head coach?

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594694]You think Sneeder would make Blanche the interim head coach?[/quote]

Only if we're talking this Blanche

[IMG]http://gothamist.com/attachments/arts_jen/2007_04_arts_blanche.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594676]Skinny Tee,

I'll give you three reasons why Armstrong....er, Zorn :) is on the hot seat

Mike Smith
Tony Sparano
John Harbaugh[/quote]And what do all of these coaches have in common? An extremely competent GM and FO. Not to mention team owners who are completely hands off when it comes to personnel matters. Our problems are much greater than Jim Zorn. The FO has been dysfunctional since Snyder fired Casserly.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Lotus;594620]Before I can answer your questions, I need one answered: how do we know that Zorn is on the hot seat?

Our whining or speculation, or the media's whining or speculation, mean nothing on this point. None of us holds the checkbook.[/quote]

I don't think there is any question that Zorn is on the hot seat. The media and fans alone assure that the seat is hot. Portis is right, the entire team is under pressure as fans are sick of hearing how talented they are and then seeing them underwhelm every week. If the team would say, "you know what? we are doing the best we can with the horses we have" - the fans would redirect their anger at management (GM maybe?) but since its the stance of the organization that all pieces are in place to be a legitimate contender (as we've been told for years) well then its time to put up or shut up. Zorn just happens to be the guy steering the ship right now- fair or not, after about a decade of mediocrity its time for the redskins to stop asking the fans (who they are bleeding dry of cash, undermining by selling excess tickets to brokers, suing, and generally taking for granted) to be patient.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SouperMeister;594701]And what to all of these coaches have in common? An extremely competent GM and FO. Not to mention team owners who are completely hands off when it comes to personnel matters. Our problems are much greater than Jim Zorn. The FO has been dysfunctional since Snyder fired Casserly.[/quote]

sigh...here we go again

Dolphins are 0-2 by the way, for those keeping count

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594704]sigh...here we go again

Dolphins are 0-2 by the way, for those keeping count[/quote]

Fair point, but the falcons and colts are both very good teams. That said, the skins lost to a very good team and beat a very bad one as well. If you agree that no FO upgrades are needed, then we should expect to win now. they've had time to acquire the players/pieces, now its time to see it work. To me, I think we've been patient, and i think its reasonable for fans to open their eyes to the fact that its been a long long long time since we've been a legitimate Superbowl contender, yet each year we all buy into the pomp and circumstance that has scarred the Danny's reign. I believe that the reaction of the fans is simply one of a frustrated consumer- enough is enough. Either you are good, or you aren't, but please stop telling us that the emperor is fully clothed when he's clearly naked.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594704]sigh...here we go again

Dolphins are 0-2 by the way, for those keeping count[/quote]

SS what is the relevence of the dolphins being 0-2? Just asking bud.

I agree with the above post. We have been told that we have the talent. I personally am sick of mediocrity. This team hasn't really been a winner since the last superbowl year 1991. For a team with every resource availble to its disposal we should be contenders every year.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;594709]Fair point, but the falcons and colts are both very good teams. That said, the skins lost to a very good team and beat a very bad one as well. If you agree that no FO upgrades are needed, then we should expect to win now. they've had time to acquire the players/pieces, now its time to see it work. To me, I think we've been patient, and i think its reasonable for fans to open their eyes to the fact that its been a long long long time since we've been a legitimate Superbowl contender, yet each year we all buy into the pomp and circumstance that has scarred the Danny's reign. I believe that the reaction of the fans is simply one of a frustrated consumer- enough is enough. Either you are good, or you aren't, but please stop telling us that the emperor is fully clothed when he's clearly naked.[/quote]

Well, we weren't so great for 8 years before Snyder showed up. But what I was "sighing" about was more about the ever so popular "team owners who are completely hands off when it comes to personnel matters". A pretty common statement that is based on basically nothing but speculation.

Dolphins' owners are new this year by the way

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;594714]SS what is the relevence of the dolphins being 0-2? Just asking bud.

I agree with the above post. We have been told that we have the talent. I personally am sick of mediocrity. This team hasn't really been a winner since the last superbowl year 1991. For a team with every resource availble to its disposal we should be contenders every year.[/quote]

Well, at the end of last season a lot of people were saying "look out, the Dolphins are a perennial contender now. Look at what Parcells has done turning from 1-15 to 11-5." To which I believe my response was "It's been one year, let's see what happens in 2009" And now they're 0-2. Will they still be good in the long run? Perhaps. I think they have a lot of question marks. But they are 0-2.

But it was also to sort of point out that one reason Zorn is on the hot seat is because fortunes can change from bad to good in an incident (and then back to 0-2 again), and the expectation is just about any coach should be able to jump right in and be successful. Not a fair expectation, to be sure.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Mattyk72;594692]Coach Armstrong may be on the hot seat as far as the fans/media go, but all that matters is what Sneeder thinks.[/quote]

Thank you.

Danny may be perfectly happy with JZ for all we know and his voice is the only one that counts. I'm not saying that he is happy with Zorn, I'm saying that we don't know. Thus all of this "hot seat" speculation is a pointless waste of time until Danny Boy chimes in.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594715]Well, we weren't so great for 8 years before Snyder showed up. But what I was "sighing" about was more about the ever so popular "team owners who are completely hands off when it comes to personnel matters". A pretty common statement that is based on basically nothing but speculation.

Dolphins' owners are new this year by the way[/quote]

And Arthur Blank is not what one would call 'hands off'. Anyone else remember him wheeling Mike Vick out onto the field a few years back in Atlanta? Blank spends just slightly less time on the sidelines during the game than Jerry Jones.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=firstdown;594622]for your answer review the past two weeks of endless post about Zorn.[/quote]

"What Type Of Head Coach Does This Tean Need"?......63 replies thus far.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SmootSmack;594704]sigh...here we go again

Dolphins are 0-2 by the way, for those keeping count[/quote]
Really and the Pats, Stlrs, Cowboys, Phil, and many other teams have the same records as the Skins. All this talk is really getting old. I could see it if we where 8 to 10 games into the season with a bad record but not after 2 games.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Longtimefan;594744]"What Type Of Head Coach Does This Tean Need"?......63 replies thus far.[/quote]

Yes, but all that demonstrates is that fans are complaining about Zorn. That does not put Zorn on the hot seat because fans have zero hand in the hiring and firing processes.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=firstdown;594750]Really and the Pats, Stlrs, Cowboys, Phil, and many other teams have the same records as the Skins. All this talk is really getting old. I could see it if we where 8 to 10 games into the season with a bad record but not after 2 games.[/quote]


People who follow this team have grown acustomed to an owner with so little patience, any coach that comes here and does not post a consistently winning record is going to be rediculed. It's the nature of the beast.

If Zorn is fired...endless speculation about a new HC.....New HC hired just to be fired, because if he comes here and does not win..good-bye. It's a never ending vicious cycle, and in the end game we still haven't won anything. I wish someone/somehow we could stop the madness.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Paintrain;594738]And Arthur Blank is not what one would call 'hands off'. Anyone else remember him wheeling Mike Vick out onto the field a few years back in Atlanta? Blank spends just slightly less time on the sidelines during the game than Jerry Jones.[/quote]Oh please. Falcon's President Rich McKay's hiring of Tom Dimitroff as GM, and Dimitroff's brilliant 2008 offseason are the biggest reasons that the Falcons will post consecutive winning seasons for the first time ever. Being a sideline cheerleader doesn't put Blank in Jerry Jones's class as a hands on owner, nor Dan Snyder's for that matter.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;594754]Yes, but all that demonstrates is that fans are complaining about Zorn. That does not put Zorn on the hot seat because fans have zero hand in the hiring and firing processes.[/QUOT

Remember Jim Fossil? Don't think the fans had anything to do with the choice between him and Zorn?

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=SouperMeister;594762]Oh please. Falcon's President Rich McKay's hiring of Tom Dimitroff as GM, and Dimitroff's brilliant 2008 offseason are the biggest reasons that the Falcons will post consecutive winning seasons for the first time ever. Being a sideline cheerleader doesn't put Blank in Jerry Jones's class as a hands on owner, nor Dan Snyder's for that matter.[/quote]

I didn't call him a Jones/Snyder clone, but he's not exactly 'hands off'.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

posted this on a different thread but it applies here...
this is exactly it- its virtually a lose lose situation...yet the skins organization put themselves in this position. They price, market and sell themselves as an ELITE team with ELITE talent. Why is it unreasonable for us (as fans) to expect to see elite results? For over a decade now, they've paraded mediocre team after mediocre team in front of us all while trumpeting the same song and dance "we have the talent! we just need to execute!" When is enough, enough? when will it be acceptable for fans to demand progress? Do you get what I'm saying? Its not that we aren't patient, its just that after a decade of treading water, we are tired- how long before we drown?

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;594778]When is enough, enough? [/quote]Enough is enough of posting the exact same response in multiple threads.....

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;594783]Enough is enough of posting the exact same response in multiple threads.....[/quote]

yeah seriously, :doh:

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Longtimefan;594763][QUOTE=Lotus;594754]Yes, but all that demonstrates is that fans are complaining about Zorn. That does not put Zorn on the hot seat because fans have zero hand in the hiring and firing processes.[/QUOT

Remember Jim Fossil? Don't think the fans had anything to do with the choice between him and Zorn?[/quote]

I pray that the fans had nothing to do with the Fassel decision or any other one. Fans are idiots. I hope that their voice is not taken into account.

The fact is, Zorn is not really on the hot seat until Danny issues the dreaded "statement of confidence." Such statements ironically legitimize criticism. If the owner is not concerned about a coach, then then the owner says nothing, which so far has been the case.

Re: Zorn On The Hot Seat
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;594783]Enough is enough of posting the exact same response in multiple threads.....[/quote]

when I wrote "posted on a different thread but applies here" i meant, if you read it, or dont' want to re-read it, skip it. its not like i'm trying to hide that fact... its not the difficult to skip it- but the fact is we have like 10 threads about the same topic...upset fans/zorn on the hot seat/upset players/detroit game, etc...sometime posts apply- I am sorry if it bothers you though- won't do it again but I don't see what the big deal is.